The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 2 months ago

Ep 140: The Power of A Unified Team w/ Andy DeAngelis, COO Votacall

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 140: The Power of A Unified Team w/ Andy DeAngelis, COO Votacall

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast.This is your host tom malabo. This is the show where revenue leaders come tolearn the tips that from the great land of boston Mass on the show. Today he isto the voter call C. 00. He's been there for just over 16 years, climbingthrough the ranks before that was the Ceo at all business communications at E.V. P. Of sales sales leader at multiple different companies before that as well.And someone that I've actually met through Pavilion, someone I've got toknow in the last year or two and really like the way that he thinks some of histips for sales for leaders for overall communications of different teams. Sowe talk about his path, his journey throughout his career, but also justhow as a Ceo he works across different parts of the organization, sales,customer success operations etcetera. Thought it was a great conversation. Ithink you're gonna really enjoy this one. If you do give us a shout on apple,give us a review, subscribe there and on Spotify and hit me up on linkedin.You have questions, comments, feedback. I'm tom Alamo. I work over at gong soshoot me a D. M let me know what you think before we get to the goods oftoday. Want to give you a quick shout out to our sponsor. This episode isbrought to you by insight squared advanced revenue analytics andforecasting for today's B two B organizations. Your revenue team wakesup every day with questions insights squared, gives you the data drivenanswers in real time. Get 350 out of...

...the box reports and dashboards, Selfservice, no code. Let's get straight into my conversation with Andy. Let'sgo all right. Andy the Angelus Welcome to the Brazilian podcast man. How areyou? Good. Thanks tom. Thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. First zoombackground I've seen with zebras on the walls. I love that. Hey, well you know,this was, this was the pandemic project, my office. So I was amongst threeChildren who were working at home for school. It wasn't working so well, Iwas getting pulled in a lot of direction. So the deal was, I was gonnaget in office, my own office in the home of my own space. Not necessarilymy own space. I still have people creeping in the out of here and playingaround in here. But yes, the wallpaper was mine. I picked this outsurprisingly enough. I have some taste. This is from one of my favorite movies,The Royal Tenenbaums. I don't know if you're a fan of Wes Anderson, he's myfavorite director and uh, this wallpaper was in that movie. So Iwanted to have it in the, in the office. That's the wallpaper store. I didn'tknow this was a wallpaper podcast. It's actually an interior design. Interior.All right. Good. Well I guess I'm a perfect cast. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Ilove it. I'm excited to get into. Just a bunch of different topics with youand a few things that you're passionate about. One thing that we were talkingbefore the show that speaks to me is that you're passionate about isleadership without the title, right? Or or not reliant on your title and it'ssomeone that's in the c suite, you've been in the C suite for a long time.You know, run sales teams running the organization over a protocol. Like I'dlove to hear you talk a little bit about what you mean by your leadershipqualities, not being defined by whatever your title might be. Sure. Soin essence, it's how I conducted myself...

...from the beginning of my career on, Iwanted to do the little things to move up the ladder and it wasn't necessarilyto get a promotion. It was if you're going, if you're, if you're going to doanything, you should do it right and you should be the best at it, right?And my biggest thing is uh you know, a title is great, but you know, that's aresume filler, right? You should be hiring people people not resumes, youshould be hiring someone's character not because they had a cool title,right? And I don't care if you're an SDR A. B. D. R uh E. V. P. Of sales,whatever your title is, right, You have an opportunity every day to leap leadpeople through your actions or your words, right? You don't have to be oroperating at a, at a podium to be a leader. You can lead by action,especially in sales team, sales teams feed off of each other. Often times thesales team, they do well together and they do poorly together. Right? Andit's just this emotion that's created. So I've always believed that you wantto find those characters that have on your team that are in constantleadership mode through actions and then can communicate that through theirwords. It's a selfless Rep, right? You want to be able to share what makes yousuccessful, which in sales at least when I got into the business, uh, I'msold in the nine in the late 90's sales is very compartmentalized each rep. Iwas really concerned about them and they had looked over their shoulder andthey didn't want necessarily the guy to do well behind them. That's all changednow. It's much more of a team sport And when without being true, there areleadership moments all around all of us again, regardless of role and if youkeep your head down, you do the work,...

...do the right things you coach, thepeople next to you regardless of title. Good things are going to happen to youand good things are going to happen to the team around you. I've alwaysbelieved that I always preached that there are leadership moments in everyevery and every day, every, every hour of every day, there's a moment to be aleader and you do have a choice. I mean we've all been at a crossroads so I dothe extra work. Do I do I give some feedback when when it wasn'tnecessarily ask for right? You always have this crossroads that you couldtake the leadership path or you can take sort of the easy path and be theindividual. I want people to take a leadership path, Do the extra do theextra work, give me a little bit of coaching, right? Give the give thelittle value nugget that you possess and only you possess to the next person.That that's a huge thing and building any sort of team. I've built salesteams, I've built C. X. Teams I've built support teams and it really comesdown to those people not being individuals but coming together to forma cohesive unit. So how do you encourage that? Especially you know ina remote world where I feel like it's easier if you're saying you're you'remaking cold calls or something, you hear the person next to you mess up orhave a tough one. Hey I heard that maybe you might want to try this orthat or you know I feel like there's a lot more tribal knowledge that getspassed around like how do you? So you know that's something that andand I think that the world where we live in uh it's gonna keep evolving andit's going to maintain it's sort of a hybrid status. So that level of, andyou, you said it well, like the tribal knowledge, right? You're, you're all,you're around it and you're taking it in it, it's like osmosis that you'retaking all this information in and now you have to find different ways to dropthe value without sucking people's day away with, You know, Zoom calls. Thereis no five minutes zoom call. Yeah,...

...that's the problem. You can't just stopby someone's desk and say, how's it going? Good bye. Now. Everything is anevent. So you know, for me it is about having many team building events, Quickstand up meetings, having things schedule where you can with, with adefined agenda that honestly my zoom calls. I tried not to schedule anythingthat's more than 45 minutes. So once you, once you bend around that our markpeople are like they were checking out. So having scheduled meetings now whereyou have, you define what you're talking about the winds, the losses,making people know that it's okay to fail. We want you to share your, whenyou didn't do something well, when you failed, we want as much as we wantpeople to share their successes. I have always said and this is, this is a bigthing for leadership is a leader needs to come out front with failure, right?I need to, I need to tell my team when I had my misstep. I mean I have many.So I'll be the first one to stand up, raise my hand and say, hey, you know,the, the initiative, we're rolling out, it didn't go very well. We didn't go asplanned. This is why this is where I messed up. That's how I got us back ontrack. This is what I learned from it when they see that a leader can bevulnerable like that. They're more willing to share and they're more, theyknow it's a safe environment to share of failure. It's not all about, youhave to hit your quota and you have to, you have to drive hard every day day inand day and do what I say and and all in all that sort of old school, youknow, managerial mentality, This has to be a coaching environment and the onlyway to do that is for the coast to be vulnerable and the coast to share theirexperience and let them know that it is safe to talk about it once you do that,I feel like the coach create that coaching environment, then you havethis sort of virtual sales environment...

...where people are willing to talkbecause that's the name of the game is willing is sharing and talking aboutthe winds as much as the losses and the losses certainly really digging in deepand and not making people feel shame about it. Um, I firmly believe in that.I feel like there's a culture in a lot of startups from what I see thateveryone is trying to kind of like pitched the story of the growth so hardin the company, there's all these monthly stand ups, Hey, here's how arerevenues grow and we brought in all these customers, you know, if you wantto get people excited and there isn't enough of sharing the other side of, wethought this was going to be a huge thing and it, it totally, you know,with the bed like it was terrible or you know, we just, we didn't executehere. We should ever, I messed up here. And so I think that's, that's socrucial for leaders to hear that people under them want to know both sides ofthe story, you're a human being, just like them, right? I mean I fail all thetime. Yeah, but I keep, but I keep coming back and I keep pushing forwardand I think that is such an important message that you know, a misstepdoesn't mean you, you stumble, fall down and you're, you can't get back up.It's just now you're that much closer to your success. I mean that's soeverybody, you know, that's, that's talked about all the time, right? Whatis failure? It is one step closer to achieving your own goal. That's reallytrue. As long as you get yourself back up. So the fact that you can see thatnot only are you vulnerable as a leader, but you're resilient to me, that's theleader I want to work under and it will drive me forward. It will make me takechances. I want people to be bold. If you're not giving them license, ifyou're not empowering them to be bold and take a chance, what are we doing?You might as well leverage ai to do all the sales work. Right? I mean if youwant that sure have at it, but for me,...

I want an individual with a personality,there is no sales mold by the way, as you know, there's no defined. Yeah,give me this type of person who has this type of skills and it will equal achampion salesperson. It's just not, it doesn't work that way. You just, youwant a person who's able to let their personalities show and shine withinyour group and take and take it into the next level and and know that it'ssafe to do. So I'm curious, um you know, I know you've run sale, you said salessupport C. X teams, I think the last roll before your ceo role was it wasthe VP of sales. So I'm curious like what's the difference in responsibilitylike for you as a ceo of like what, what teams are you overseeing right now?You know, E V P. S. L. Like that was strictly, you know, the sale squadinbound up on the, you know, the standard and working with somemarketing, moving to C. 00. I have to oversee all the operational people, theproject management teams, the technical and support teams as well as sales. Sofor me it's about having establishing a great set of directors that areunderneath me that are running these teams day today and making sure thatI'm checking in and managing that and then when you find that the need or thewhole within each group, you know, you have to coach them on how to fill it,whether it's personnel or process. Oftentimes this process, you don't wantto just throw people out of problem necessarily. You need to really dig inand look at the process that may be failing. It's one of my favorite partsof my job is, is problem solving and finding solutions to sort of trickythings that are not on the surface, there are deeper than that. So when Itook the role on, I literally hold the directors in and you know, they have anE. V. P of sales now as ceo the sales...

...people like it. Yeah, technical supportoperations. I mean traditionally we were like the enemy, right? We'reselling things and they're cleaning up the mess. I mean that's like that, thatwar has been going on forever. My job is to make sure that war didn't happen,just stop that, you know, and not perpetuated. So, um, my firstconversation with them was I work for you, my job is to make your life betteryour work life and in doing so, everything else would be better. Youryour personal life, you'll feel better about what you do. I want to give youyour time back after hours. It was all about, you know, making them happieroutside of the sales people. I'm talking the operational people, thetechnical people that the, the project manager. So I would sit and I'd move mydesk around at the time and I would sit with each group for about a month. AndI kind of watched their process in the background, see how things are done.Listen, listening is so important and I kind of get an overview of peopleskills, how people are running their day to day, how processes are workingmaybe where holes are coming. And then I'd meet with the director and we talkabout it and over time, you know, I had to really earn their trust to to say, Iam not the sales guy who's going to come in and just bulldoze all thetechnical people and say, no, it's all sales and sales and sales of sales. No,for me, it's a customer experience, right? And, and and without an internalexperience that's uniform across the board and awesome, we could sell a deal.We're not going to hold on to that customer lifetime value is tooimportant. So for me, it was making sure these people are happy their needswere met and their processes were tight and that's that's my day to day noweven I mean we're constantly evolving. Yeah. You know the deal uh thispandemic has us in a constant state of...

...evolution and change. Which is excitingand fun if you're willing to be flexible and adapts. Mm What did you,you mentioned how important those directors are for each of those teams?Like what what do you look for? Or did you look for when trying to find likethe right person for that type of role? I inherited a bunch of directors. Ihired a couple as well and I had worked with them for a while. The ones that Iinherited, they knew me as more of a sales guy. So I knew the burden was onme. Not them either earn the right to lead them like really? And that's why Isay getting back to the original point is, you know, leadership isn't about atitle. I didn't want to come in and say I have a C. At the beginning of mytitle. Now you must listen to me. You know like and some people they pullthat card and it's bullshit. It really is that the servant leader is true. Theonly way to lead is for people to believe and buy into the fact that youare there to serve them and make them better, make them happier, Make theenvironment better. And if you do that, you will see it through again, customerlifetime value does not lie. That that one stat that metric. It's one of theones I focus on uh pretty hard now. That tells a big story on the health ofthe team. Yeah. At least in my industry because you know we're selling and it'sa managed service. So people, people are happy in sales, you sell it. But ifpeople are unhappy in the project management team, the operational teamand the support team, you don't keep it. You do not keep that customer. So um I just, you know, I came in and had towin those people over make them realize that I am on their side that I work forthem and I had to do it not just with...

...words but with actions and the newdirectors. I'm looking for extreme accountability. Unbelievablecommunication skills. The standard. Right? But I've always said thataccountability, it's such a hard thing to judge when you're interviewing andon a resume. Yeah, but you really have to focus on how accountable someone is.If someone, if you want someone to execute accountability is key and youcan get that through a conversation. You know, you you can't necessarily getit on a resume. You can you have to really get it from the person in a twoway conversation. Interview. My interview process is different thanprobably most where I will have someone come in. This was before we were remoteand put a pad of paper down and say right five topics down you wanna talkto Andy about. And one caveat is that can't be about the job. Can't be aboutthe work. five topics outside of this sphere that you are now in that you'dlike to talk about. They'd write them down. I'd come in the room, grabbed apiece of paper, looked down to see what they were about. They could be aboutthe red sox or they could be about favorite book, movie, you know,interests, family, whatever they wanted to talk about. And I just go down thelist, have a conversation and in between in between the different topics.I'd weave in something about the work, I'd find a way to like we've that inand then pull it back out just to see if they could how they werecommunicating if they were over prepared. I don't like over prepared. Iwant someone who is a human being and go back and forth and through that Youcan slowly find little nuggets of accountability in there who that personreally is, it's not 100% foolproof. Yeah. But if you, the character of theperson will shine through in a two way conversation and I think if when you dothat when you when you when you aim to find that you will find the accountableperson and not just the over prepared. Perfect. I'm interviewing person. Idon't know that that's that's not what...

I'm looking for. Where'd you get thatidea for the five topics? I've never heard that before. I think we weresitting in their uh interviewing people and it was me and it was um ourdirector of technology who's like super smart, super nerdy which is acompliment. I always say I'm like you know that's a compliment and he takesthe comment. But we were interviewing these people with these, you know theyhad all the certifications you would ever want the paper. The resume lookedawesome but we're not hiring a piece of paperalright we're hiring a human being who needs to interact with other humanbeings. So I said okay I gotta figure out a way where once the interviewprocess gets to me, like I'm the end at the end of the line. He's already he orshe is already answered all the technical questions, certificationquestions. I don't want to have the same interview now for the 4th, 3rd orfourth time. Yeah I want to find out who this person is. How do I do that? Ihave to have a conversation with him. Okay I also have to see if they canpivot, I have to throw them off because everyone shows up so prepared so howcan I throw them off. But but also is fair, I can't sit down and all of asudden sit across from someone and start firing random questions at them.It's weird, it's like a, it's odd. So instead I said, okay, why don't we meetin the middle? I'll write down, I'll say right down five tubs you want totalk to about so they can control the conversation. Yeah, right. It willcertainly throw them off because they sit down for an interview. They'reready to talk about the interview and they have to think differently. So theyhave to turn that part of the brain off, turn the other one on right and be ahuman being with me. And then in the meeting, when I'm talking about thesethings, once I, we've a couple of things in about the job or the role ortheir past that isn't in there. Five questions. I want to see if they canpivot and answer that appropriately, right, or does it throw them off somuch that they start stammering and...

...stuttering and I can't answer thequestion well, how are they going to handle a customer who is, you know, notnecessarily happy or throws throws a curve ball in a conversation, right? Iwant people who can pivot and are flexible and not are just great pieceof paper with certifications under their name. I love that. Have you everhad a situation where uh, someone wrote down something, you're like, oh God, wegotta just a crazy topic. So I've never had that, I think and see that's whatpeople and it may just be me and maybe I'm a little cookie or whatever, but Iwould love if someone went totally like, you know, out in left field on me,right, I'd love someone to stump me, like I don't even know how to approachthis topic appropriately, of course, but often times it will be the favoritemovie or, you know, hobbies and they'll get into that stuff, but I'll try andpush the envelope a little bit and push back on them, you know? Uh becausethat's relatively can't, you know, I had a couple of people who said, youknow, let's talk about cooking 1, 1 person loved to cook, I don't love tocook, right? But that opened up a huge conversation because you have atheoretical expert on one side. Yeah, and a complete novice on the other, andthat's me and I get to ask all sorts of questions about, you know, cooking.Yeah. And if it meant it went to a great conversation and at the end of it,when I leave the room, if I think I had a great conversation with someone Iwant that person on my team. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, I feel like I've alwaysthought you can learn way more about a person from a conversation like that,just about them, what they care about their interest than you can from threemonths of like hand, business conversations, you know, it's like that,it's like you, you work with someone for a long time and then you go to ahappy hour or you play golf or you get...

...outside the office and for an event orsomething like that and you're like, wow, that's what you're like, like, youknow, like it can just really, it shows you who the person is, you leave andyou're like, I had no idea. So and so was so cool. Yeah, right? Or so like,kind of wacky, wacky is good, right? You know, wacky is cool. You know, Ican't believe like you have this, it's buttoned up during the day, but youknow, they got an edge to them and honestly, I want a team filled withpeople with a little bit of an edge. That's personality to me. People wantpeople want to interact with personality, especially now thatseparates everybody. Everybody's pitching my inbox is full right? Butwhat I will remember are the brands that have an edge to them. The peoplethat have a personality, right though? That's all branding and it's so very,very important, right? You don't want a bunch of robots, like a clone armyspitting out the same stuff and it's just blending in with everybody else.You know, just calling to check in and just, you know, all those emails andnonsense driving me crazy. I'd rather have the personality when someone sendsme a wacky video, I'm going to stop and I'm gonna look at him like and I'm mostlikely I will engage, you know, those are the people I want on my team. Idon't care what role you're in. I want people who have personality. I love it.I love it. All right. I got a few more questions for you. You get pitch allthe time. What was the last sales meeting that you took? Okay, So thelast sales meeting I took was for sales intel? Have they hook you? So they, Ithink they went to me directly. Then they went to an SDR and I said, I toldyou asked the SDR, go, you know what, get, you know, hop on it. If you thinkit's good, then I'll take a look at it. And I did that for a couple of reasons.One, you know, you have to empower your people, right? Empower your people tomake some decisions or at least make...

...recommendations. So it was an exerciseand hey, I trust you if you like it and you want to bring it to me, I trustedthat that's legitimate. And you see value in there. And then, you know,once they saw the demo, uh, from sales intel and I saw the value myself. Um,there have email is a nightmare. So I haven't taken something off of email ina long, long, long time. It's everything blends in. However, you know,a couple of years ago when video started making its way into outreach.Those ones I definitely stopped and and would respond to because it was unique.And I forwarded around my company and say this is, you know, look at thisapproach, how can we take this approach and kind of make it our own regardlessof department. There are some really creative people out there and thenthere are some that maybe not feel empowered to be creative and they needto stick to the standard. And that's a shame because although I believe in sales being acontact sport and you know, it is somewhat of a numbers game, there isn't,there's a combo of you know, contact sports in creativity that really getsthe job done and but you have to let your people be creative, you have toshow them that it's ok to be creative and not everything is going to work andthat's all right. Just make sure you review what you've done, reflect andadjust and everything will work out, everything will be great. Yeah,absolutely. I saw a post yesterday that I had to comment on, it was like, doyou agree with you know, companies that make all the sales people have the samepicture on linkedin and banner and this and that and I just like I verystrongly disagree with that. I feel like you can offer it as an option ifthey want to enhance their profile or whatever, that's great, but give peoplea chance to have their own personality.

It's the same with like I know SDR oris that they all have to send out of like one cadence or one sequence in anoutreach, your sales off and uh it's like literally all you're doing is ispressing a button all day and then, you know, making calls using a script, likethere's no, there's no room for creativity, there's no room forimproving in the craft that way. Um so I think some of those things areridiculous, so there, you know, and I do think there's a place for some ofthat to get started, right? I mean we all needed to have like a baseline.Yeah, totally. But the moment that script is your is your pitch, I meanthat scripture give is a jumping off point, it's to give you sort of theFoundation two then make it your own. Yeah, I do, I I think I agree with youthere. Absolutely. Alright, so last question for you billion, we're big on,you know, networking community, building, all that good stuff. What'syour number one networking tip for the audience? So, you know, there'sobviously 22 types of networking uh there's there's, you know, twocolleagues networking for jobs and what have you and then there's two passinguh and information and then there's passing leads um my the biggest tip isbeing responsive to eat in either side being responsive and communicating themoment, I don't care if you feel like you're over communicating, you have tostay relevant. You have to be top of mind of people, you have to get yourname out there, you can't be worried about. Oh, I sent an email last week. Idon't, I'm going to give them a week off. No, if you have something to talkabout and you and you want to build a relationship, you have got to berelevant. Top of mind in these people's in boxes, I mean in boxes are floodedso you have got to constantly reach out um and and stay relevant. Communication.Communication's key. It's the name of...

...the game, name of the game. Yeah,absolutely. Um Andy appreciate your time this morning, appreciate thezebras lifting my mood this morning and uh they're all around me. You can't seeit all around me. I love it. Thanks for coming on. Well, thanks for having meappreciate. All right, thanks for listening to that episode. This wasbrought to you by Inside squared. Say goodbye to spreadsheet, forecasting andhello to Crm data. You can trust Inside Square delivers predictive deal scoring,unmatched visibility and inspection. An advanced goal management for yourentire team. Everything You need to take back control of the revenueprocess. That's it for me. You can make sure to add me on linkedin. My name istom LeBeau I work over at gone way back next week with another episode tillthen get after it peace. Say something. Mhm.

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