The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

Ep 208: The New Age Of Sales Gamification w/ Sindre Haaland, Founder of SalesScreen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 208: The New Age Of Sales Gamification w/ Sindre Haaland, Founder of SalesScreen  

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

Book. All right, everybody, welcome back to the pavilion podcast, where revenue leaders learned the tips, tricks and tactics they need to be successful in their roles. I'm your host, Tom Alemo. Thank God it's Monday. Let's get into it. Today I've got an episode with Sindre Holland. He is the CEO and founder over at sales screen. They are changing the game when it comes to gamification and building a competitive and collaborative sales culture. So we talked about really all things in that realm. Anyone who's running a sales team, CEEO, VPA, sales crow. This is the way of the future, and so I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Before we get to the content, let's do a quick word from our sponsor. All right, this month your episodes are brought to you by Doch Abo, an award winning industry leader and trusted enterprise learning partner for more than two thousand of the world's best brands. Now let's get into our episode. Our next on the pavilion podcast, we have cindre Holland, CEO of sales screen. How we do and welcome to the show. Thanks, Tom Great to beer excited to to chat with you about all things sales, sales, morale, gamification, all that good stuff, all to pics that are near and dear to my heart as a salesperson, and pretty much any sales leader out in the world right now is all focusing on these topics. I'm excited to be chatting with you. Yeah, I'm very excited to dive in as well. You know, these are topices close to my hearts. So let's let's just get straight into it. Something that's been a focus of mind. So I've got I have a few family members that are seniors in college trying to get into sales, and I put out a post a couple weeks ago about, you know, hey, anyone looking to higher sdrs? It is thinking I...

...might get a couple friends like hey, you know, check out this link, and I got hundreds of comments for these two guys. There's no resume, they've never you know, they've sold like a retail or whatever, but they have no real experience and hundreds of companies commenting, dming me, send me, send them over all interest. You know, I had a Crro at, you know, a five hundred billion dollar company valuation, like a lot of just a lot of demand, and it's not because I put out anything great, it's just like that's with the demand it's apply looks like right now due to the great resignation. So I'd love to just hear, may you done a lot of studies about the great resignation and things of that sort, but I'd love to hear you just kind of talk about what you're seeing in the market. Is that and is my view accurate, or is it in my office somewhere? Now? I think you're spawn on. There's a couple of huge things going on now and aftermath of the pandemic, obviously, you know, being trusted to work from home and being disconnected from the workplace and the energy and the people has had a big impact on how people perceived their work and there you know, normal daytoday activities and it's natural, I think, that people are craving something else and some change, because it is a bit of a Rut, especially for those who still left in a lockdown. But I also think there's another aspect to it, and that's, you know, there's tons of money being funneled into the market right now and we see some crazy valuations, especially on text stocks and you know, stock markets are all time high and in general, a lot of this is driven by expectation that we're going to deliver more and, you know, grow faster and and go higher, and when so many are under the same expectation, of course that's going to trigger a war and talent as well. So there's a real big pressure on increasing the productivity, on the existing stuff that you have and being able to retain them even though they're working from home or in hybrid...

...work setting. What do you I know you mentioned that you have some some studies before we started, but we didn't get into the data. So I'd love to hear about like in terms of like salesperson, you know, satisfaction and morale and things like that. Like if you have anything off the top of your head, I just be curious, like what types of data have you been seeing in the market interest in terms of what that looks like across the average sales team company? Yeah, there's there's some insane stats out there right now. I saw one going on more tied to the great resignation, but there was a big survey where they can ask like how people were thinking about their jobs and thirty five percent was saying that they're looking for a new job. And you know, that's the staggering amount of people. So there's a big shift going on. At the same time, when interviewing, you know, sales leaders and asking them how, how confident are you and hitting your targets for the next upcoming year, sixty percent say that they're not confident at all. But the most staggering one, I guess, is just on the engagement side. You know, being trusted to work from home, all that major transformation has happened as taken at all on people. So there is a huge disengagement problem going on everywhere right now and I've really talked to lots of sales leater lately about you know, how can we engage with our team again? How can we recreate the buzz of the sales floor, you know, the feeling of ringing the Gong, the Bell, chalking something up on the Whiteboard for everyone to see? You know, we want to do that in a remote setting and that engagement at level of cohesion and feeling connected to the business and what you're doing. It's just so hard to get that right in a remote setting. You know, how do you recreate a that sales atmosphere that we used to have in this new world. It's really it's it's...

...challenging. Yeah, I mean there's there's ways that you know, I know we do it at Gong and from interviewing sales leaders, whether it's I think it we all started with doing a lot of like zoom happy hours and things like that, or stand ups every day, and then it's turned into kind of like slack channels where people are getting shoutouts and things like that. Some companies are giving gifts internally or, you know, run some sort of promotions. But I'm curious, like one thing that I know is near and dear to your heart ist is, you know, contests or Gamification of sales, which I think is always been around with spiffs and contests, and it's generally like, you know, winner gets ten grand and then the second place gets a thousand and then the third place gets an Amazon Gift Card or something like that for a monthly sales competition. But just curious, like is that is that what people are you know, a huge kind of lever in the remote world of getting people more engaged is trying to game afy it a little bit outside of just like what reps quotas are? Yeah, for sure. I mean gamification is going through a true renaissance of the dependemic now. It's it was a really hot topic and a lot of bus around it in the twenty early, you know, earlier in the decade, like are on two thousand and ten, when the eleven tons of research has gun into it. Just to define it, you know, Gamification is the act of taking and placing, you know, game like elements in a non gaming environment to improve engagement and perform. And so naturally people now look to Gamification as of potential solution to the engagement issue and how they can ramp up performance of their existing staff, but also how they can retain them and make them more, you know, happy, doing the the consistent work that it needs to be done and the art of sales in order to hit your Quda. So gamification is highly relevant right now and it's definitely given us a boost as a gamification platform. But there are much to it and just to explain, like intuitively, the...

...impact of Gamification, I love to contact the example of, for instance, the pellet, and just think about the pellet and like it's it's just a spinning bike. It's when it goes down that you're still sitting on a bike in your your home and and you know peddling. But what they change and what they made different is that they place this TV visual or screen on top of the bike and then they added you know counter, so they counted how many times you spun around and at which effort, and that that was translated into it like a point system where it which allow them to do place a leader boards and could run competitions and you could really get achievements and it was added social elements to it. You were part of a class. You get shout out like they really make majestically added Gamification to spinning and that became something brand new. But they're still just spinning around on that bike. But you know, if you can add those same game like elements to the work of sales, you can get similar increase in performance and output. Give Up. The PELTON's a great example, because not only that, but there is that there is that community that's outside of just the class that people are inside. I've never got on Pelpton, but I've heard about it enough to know the gist, because when that people meet each other, like I'll tell you a going there's a there's an internal slack channel of like Gongsters who Peloton or whatever it's called, and there's, you know, a hundred people in there all sharing their peloton screen names or whatever and going through it. And it's, you know what, three four thousand dollars in a subscription fee, whereas you could go to a gym, you know, for twenty bucks a month and like just go on the bike for an hour, you know, couple times a weekn it's the same exact thing. But it's the it's the it's the Gamification, it's the community around it. That is what makes it has made it such an amazing company, amazing investment for some people the last few years. Absolutely. And if you transfer that over to the world of sales,...

...you know, Ganification isn't something new. It's been around for ages. So I already mentioned the Gong the people rang, you know, when they close deals to get high fives and get that energy and the dopeomin release. But I know the wife boards the black pors. That's we seen by a Glen Gary, Glenn Ross always be closing. You know, it's it's been around for ages. To Age old question. How do you motivate your team. They're so many creative solutions to that. I'd I've heard so many different things, I've seen so many original ideas and you mentioned competitions. You know, it's it's natural to tie in competitions because that's definitely something that's going to lift the spirits and give people a boost if it's done properly. And one of the the ways that I can remember one sales either did his competition to kind of mix it up and keep it exciting was that he took in the office pace at the time. You know, he added a bunch of envelopes on the wall and every time somebody in that case place an ad, because of I advertisement sales company, that could pick one random envelope and it could be, you know, a dollar, it could be a thousand dollars. I was on really great prices in there. But the point was as long as you did something, you had the chance to win the grand prize. And suddenly you have a competition that it's not only awarding the top performers but it's actually creating engagement and excitement for the the ones who's maybe just placing one or two as a week and not ten or twenty. So everyone felt a part of it and they were much more excited than the traditional you know, here's the cash price to the top three performers this week. So do you feel like that's an issue generally? Is like when a leader thinks of some sort of gamefcation or spiff that you know it's really like it's most likely the just the best reps going to clean up in the one that's already making the most in commission is more most likely just gonna go and win the Gift Card or whatever it is. It's a huge problem, be honest. Like that's not...

...what going to move the needle for organizations. If you can impact the the Middle Tier of the company, you're always going to have that top performers who, if you you know, start in competition, you see they starting out so high it's impossible to keep up or take them. Then you're just going to be having the opposite effect. You're going to be demotivated and be like Ah, it's no point. So you need to be a bit more creative and and switch it up and maybe place people together and teams, and that's also a great way to kind of engage more in competitions. So designing the game process or designing the competition in a way that makes for maximum impact is really an art in itself and it's something that a lot of companies today, especially with the spiff mindset, gets wrong. It's not always about the money either. I think more so now than ever before, it's about the recognition. So you mentioned the slack channels as an example. With the PALETIN bikers. They want to to enhance that humans that they're having in Pelleton by talking about it to colleagues and get a social, you know, boost, and that's so important as well. If you're going to make an incentive competition a spiff, the attention around it, the winners, the ongoing process, is almost more important than the prices itself, because that is what is going to tie into the intrinsic motivation instead of the extrinsic you know all I do this because I can get this bonus. Are Do this because I can get more money. That's extrinsick transactional type of behavior, opposed to if I managed to get amongst top ten, I'm going to have my name mentioned on all hands session for thousand people in my company. That is amazing. I would love to do that. That's something I'm want going to fight for. Then you have an in a goal that you set yourself and it becomes intrinsic motivation that...

...drives you to get into that tomb ten. So it's so it's more about like what the fuss you create around it. That's even more important than how it's actually being done. How frequently should sales leaders be looking to do something like this? Should this be like a I feel like sometimes it's a been places where it's once a year, or sometimes it's like once a quarter for a while and then it fades off for sometimes it's never. But should it be like always happening, or how do you recommend companies do it? So we have tons to date on this. Like we've run, I don't know, like fifty hundred thousand competitions in our platform over the time so so we have some staggering stats, amongst other and average competition any KTI you're going to see a forty three percent increase and that's insanely high just by the fact of having a competition. But there are some, some butser so, if you run it over too long of a time frame, you're going to have a high engagement when you kind of get out of the gays and you have a new competition started and it's going to go down like your roller coaster in the middle part before you kind of gets towards the end and people rallied to end up where they they're going to end up in the competition. So actually we saw a much higher increase in activity and in keep you eyes measured when they, instead of running let's say a five week competition, break it into five competitions one week apiece and then they mix it up and bury is it's so you know, you get that excitement level up and the downward spiral in the middle is shorter. So more freaquent competitions is better. And we also saw blitzes like one day competitions. Loss of a ten. Should also focus in on that. One day had to even bigger impact. So running a couple of blitzes a week on specific if behaviors that you weren't want to change or you need to boost pipeline creation or do something you know, that's the best way to do it, to be honest, and our data shows that if...

...you do it on a Wednesday you're going to have even more increased than if you started an a different day of the week. So there's tons of learning either. Yeah, yeah, I have you been seeing the trend? And maybe it's not even a full trend yet, but I've heard of some leaders, especially like a VP of sales development who's pushing on the SCR team every day to get after it, to incorporate some sort of like company wide prospecting day or half day where, yeah, marketing engineers, everyone is like making calls and sending emails for maybe it's the whole day, maybe it's just an hour or two, and doing some sort of like camaraderie competition around that. Have you been seeing that too? Oh, definitely. I think it's forced. Management has actually been messing this for quite a long time. They call it PG Mondays or something like that. Yeah, piped I in generation days where you tried to tie in everyone to contribute with, you know, referral or they have a friend you should talk to and they kind of quantify that and add points to it and they can be a part of the competition as well. So that's that's definitely something that works. It's quite impactful. So if you aren't doing that, I would definitely recommended. It has a huge impact on the overall you know, pipeline generation and and whatever really that you put it up on. But specifically that's what we're seeing it those those types of concerts being used for. Yeah, that's super interesting and I'm curious, like so you mentioned sales screen is done. What fifty do a hundred thou competitions, I think you said in its off this isn't an ad or. I'm just genuinely curious, like how do you how does that work? Like if I'm a VP of sales and I'm using salescreen, like, how does that work for me to put together like a competition and try to think of one that's actually going to you know, net in a positive morale and revenue boost? Yeah, so usually it's something that you kind of together with the CS rap. So we have all the data and it kind of like expertise.

So we also look at the competitions that have been running and come up with suggestions. But you can definitely do it yourself because there's a constant data stream coming into the platform. So if you're an SCR you know that s ql is is maybe the end goal, and then we break that up into activities leading up to an escal starting from typical, you know, outreach or sales, soft type of solutions, where you add context to a sequence, you follow through and complete the sequences, you do outstanding tasks, you do the work that is required, and we know true conversion rates is going to lead you into those discovery calls, which again is going to lead into an escal so you need to focus on creating competitions that are top of final activity and then they can just go in and pick a template, pick a game mechanic. Who's going to be in the competition? Adam in, you know, how long is this going to last, with names going to is? Does it have as it a PGM, Monday run, whatever that is. And you have some prices and to simplify the price process, we have a digital currency inside our tool, so you just tie or drop coins and everyone can collects those coins and into a wallet and they save up for rewards that they care about in the reward shop. So that kind of makes it easier to add prices and add more of it. So you can tie or drop perhaps down to top fifty percent, and the competition, which creates multiple races and actually matters if you end up at twenty itt or nineteen place. So it's like there's yeah, there's tons of it going in, but the creation of a competition takes two minutes and then it's visible everywhere. TV, screen, mobile, APP, web is going to be pushed into slack is going to be all around you. We kind of surround yours to a concept of sales around so that you're constantly feeling the bust of the competition and see how you're performing and things are changing in real time. I love it. Can Tell you about the best competition I've ever been a part of. This is the best for me and it's been may be because I want it, but so I was at a company. There's a bunch of different sales teems, you know, there's that said be enterprize, mid market, all it stuff...

...in the the Sep took one rep from each team and put them on their own team together. So each team has one of one representative from each team and it was like a two week competition and it's just like straight dollar amount, I think of who could sell the most in the winners got to go on a trip to anywhere in the world and they had to call their shot before love it before the thing and we won. We went to Bermuda, we got to bring a plus one and that was amazing and I think that I don't even know why I wanted to share that, but maybe there's a sales leader out there is like I really want a ball out and and choose something. I would highly recommend something like that, because that was that was that was quite a great experience. It does sound like a great experience, but you're also taught touching an emotional side to the competition, pricer, which is really interesting. So this competition itself was fairly simple. It's a two week company Titius about, you know, creating the most dollars. I'm sure they made a big deal out of it, but also with the price, it created a memory for you that's you're going to have with you forever and it probably created some someone else looking at the price that you had and what you shared it from the trip and be like, oh, that would be majestic to be to kind of win and get to go on such a truck trip. And I always wanted to go to Bermuda. Like I hope they're going to run that again. I'm going to do whatever I can to get to Bermuda, not to win the competition, not to get the money, but to get to experience, and that's kind of interesting. So when it comes to like the art of rewarding, you know, we've seen many vendors coming up, but good rewards are it's more than just gift cars and dollars. Now I think it was, for love me, I can't remember the name of something with blue, but they kind of specialized in creating experience packages. Yeah, for companies. So I don't know if you know which company I'm talking about, but we kind of partner with them. So do your rewards. CEO came on, I interviewed him and I knew blue to I...

...can't maybe made a minute, but it was a really cool idea. Yeah, I love it because that's going to create long lasting memories and it's going to create, you know, its people really want to get those rewards. So they're gonna tally whatever digital currency that's required to exchange for that package, or if it's a dollar, I don't know. But however, people organize it without sales screen. But the point is, like you get that experience and it's something that's going to be remarkable, something that's going to drive you in strength intrinsickally, and you're going to share it with the rest of the world and it's it's going to create much more of a splashed and just, you know, a Tellusan bucks in your bank account. Yeah, I saw when I was checking you folks out before. We talked this morning about your recent partnership with rev genius, which is something that I have never seen really before, of doing some sort of, you know, gamification contest, but you know, not at a company level, I guess at a community level. Could you just maybe walk me through exactly what what you guys are doing together? Absolutely, so you know, first off, we're super happy to be able to join rev genius and this effort. They've created something that they called the Rev League, which is pretty unique community program I would say, where stars and kind of executives can join in on an individual basis, regardless of where they work, and they will be put in cohorts or groups of people where they will received coaching and they will also be a part of a community on slack and on sale screen. So you're going to be put with other people and then going to be set into competitions where they key and key activities like, Hey, I got a discovery call, I booked a meeting or, if you're an a, I close the deal, and this is stallar months. So they're keying that indirectly inside sale screen and they're competing, you know, amongst each other in those cohort groups and with the rest of the REV genius community and it's it's just such a great way for us to to branch out the be able to provide access to salescreen and gamefucation regardless of...

...where you work or if your employer as spot licenses for us or not. So it's like, yeah, this is it's a fantastic partnership from both sides. That's super cool. I definitely encourage folks, if they're in that category of job titled, to check that out. For sure. I'd like I said, I've never seen anything like that before, which is really cool. And obviously the explosion of sales communities is you know, if we go back to the beginning of the conversation with the great resignation, I think that's one of the reasons why there are communities like red genius. There's a handful of others that have been so successful. It's because we're often feeling more disconnected. There isn't that sales pit that we're on and we want to connect with like minded people that maybe don't work out our company and maybe we just Jell it. So I definitely encourage folks to check that out. I want to pivot a little bit before we sign off to do some rapid fire questions let the audience know a little bit more about you. If that's cool with you, absolutely all right. First Up, we're big learners on this podcast. I'm not sure if you're a reader or not, but if you are, I'd love to hear any books that have impacted you, your life, your career. Any topic is is fair game. But she cures faithing comes up. Wow, yeah, I guess like the biggest book that has impacted my life and career was booked at a picked up as thirteen year old. That's the time I was very much into computer science and coding and my table tennis coach, how had a master's degree and coding and he borrowed me a book on see the the coding language, and I took that diligently and I read through it and I you know, I just explored every venue of that language and sorry to really get advanced into coding and it fueled the desire to overcome any ay n you would in computer science really. So that has helped shaped me into that absolute Geek that I am today. But getting that early on was...

...important. So yeah, that would that. That's probably a you know, the follow up question is going to be here is how you had a table tennis coach at the age of thirteen. We've got to talk about that. Yeah, I know right. So now it's for some reason that that was a passion project besides soccer. So I was and soccer and table tennis. Have no idea how he actually got started with that, but I was pretty good as I played with the adults in the National League. Wow, at nature fifteen before I can quit, I didn't have time to do that and soccer. So but it was fun. I love it. I was a I played tennis my whole life of Plate College, and so naturally I'm pretty good at, you know, table tennis just because of the rack and thing. But when I watch people that are actual pros or at the Olympics or whatever, it's like, man, that that is it's a mindboggling how how intense it can be it how much effort people put into that. I know it's just devastating when you lose as well. It really is, because he try to throw the paddle but it doesn't really do anything. You know it's it's a it makes it even more frustrating. I'm curious outside of books, I don't know how else you learn, if it's podcasts or youtube or blogs or newsletters or people on Linkedin, but any other resources that you found helpful in the sales world, in the entrepreneurship world, leadership world, anything like that that you would call out of recommend the folks. I mean, I've fun in love with podcast so that follows saster as many others. I also listen in to the state of Demanda and by Chris Walker. that as a good one. He's great. So it's and some specific you know, I'm originally from Norway, so I still listen to kind of like a what do I call this? The Sauce Nordic podcast or the sauciest podcaster is so it...

...kind of from on. But anyways, podcasts is great, let's say, source of inspiration, regardless of your role. I think if you find something that talks to where you either want to go, like it as your next career step, or where you are at, you're definitely going to pick up a ting or two and you can do it, you know, with there pause in when you're walking, fetching your kids at the daycare or cooking a meal. You know, it's just so, so convenient. So I love podcasts. HMM, me too. I have all genres. Some are sales and business, some are completely off topic. I just feel like it's the best, one of the best inventions or creations in the last like ten years, because you can just do it on the go. What's pop it in the what's going on in the headphones? Music Wise, on spotify or apple music, wherever you tune in. Like, what do you listen to? I'm a big house fan, so any like chill lounge music type of setting, if I'm reading a white paper, doing anything like that. If I'm out running, you know, it's a bit more beat, more electro, so it depends on what I'm doing, but if I'm relaxing, it's like a chill house launch type of setting. That's that's amazing Nice. I like it. What's one piece of tech or a tool or something that maybe you've picked up recently that that's been helpful to you in the last like say three or six months, or an apter. Yes, yeah, there's there's plenty. Actually, we've had it so much tech lately, I feel so obviously we've had sale screen for longer than that, but I guess I'm very like interested in and the whole seismic ye tool sales enablement space. You know, the fact that you can organize all that content and surface it timely depending on where you're at in the deal stage, but also get like that insights into, oh, somebody just open that power point proposal you prepared and now they...

...open it again. Oh, there's velocity here. You know, it's a digital sales room and itself. To get in that stat and and knowledge into what's going on from the client side when they're not talking to you, it's really great. And having, you know, the ability for marketing and also sales enablement to see which content actually is being consumed and it's good, so they can rei. raight them and become better at that and well, candidly. Also, with the integration to Salescreen, you can compete on with a new contest coming out that people are actually deploying it. That's a pretty good use case, right. So, so seismic has enabled quite a lot of the new use cases for us at least. So I'm happy with them. Yeah, shout out to seismic. They're great. My last question for you. Who would you want to see come next on the pavilion podcast? Oh, that's fantastic question actually. So I guess there's so many inspirational sales leaders out there. Right. So it's right now, I would say we're in this crazy state where some companies are just taken in, you know, massive rounds of funding and they have, I'm sure you know, pretty high goals that there need to attain. And one of the founders that I follow is his name is Ari crosstall and he's third time founder now backing a company called Crisp to just announced it thirty five million dollars. So yea yesterday. So it's a cool one. I think it was valued like five hundred million dollars and I'm just curious on what is he doing to get those reps fired up and then really getting to that next level now that he has that round of funding? Secured. HMM, that's a great one. I've been here in their name come up quite a bit and haven't really dug into it too much myself. Well, I'm happy to introduce you, awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on and talking about everything around Gimification, great resignation, everything...

...like that. If folks want to connect with you, if they want to chat with you, learn more about sales screen, whatever might be, what are the best places? Are the best place to do that? I would say that, you know, hit me up on Linkedin. ASSAYLLEM's my short nick, I guess, a salescreen the company follow it. We also have, you know, quite a lot of interesting webinar some content coming out. So I feel free to pop in on our website to be part of the game and and follow our news letters. So if you're anywhere as me and interested in how to kind of get the most out of your human beings on your revenue, revenue team and not to excite them and make sales worth fun and engaging, well then that's the source to get from. Awesome, definitely everyone. I would recommend hit him up on Linkedin and check out those resources. I think this is going to be potentially one of the big waves of two thousand and twenty two is is up level in the gamification of sales teams as part of trying to build a great culture. So I love what you guys are doing. So thanks for coming on and chair and everything. Thanks, Tom. It's been pressure. All Right, folks, this episode was brought to you by do Chebo. Do Chebo is redefining the future of enterprise learning with its AI based learning suite. With Dochebo, you can create and manage engaging content, deliver training to customers, partners, for employees and measure how learning impacts your people in your business, all with a single suite. Find your learning and development sweet spot at dochebocom. Thank you for listening to this episode. Feel free to give me some feedback on Linkedin. My name is Tom Aleamo. Hit subscribe and until next week, get after it, y'all. Peace.

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