The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

Ep 178: The Biggest Education Travesty with Paul Fifield, Sales Impact Academy (Best of 2021)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 178: The Biggest Education Travesty with Paul Fifield, Sales Impact Academy (Best of 2021)

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

Alright, everybody, Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast is, thank God it's monday episode by thomas Alaimo. Uh this is the podcast where revenue leaders come to learn the tips, the tricks, the tactics that they need to be successful in their roles um for the last few weeks of the year here, we're doing a little bit of a throwback to some of the top episode. This is one of the most downloaded episodes of 2021. My friend paul five Field, he is the founder of Sales Impact Academy. We talked about how uh you know, not a lack of education and sales is one of the greatest travesties uh in education today. He's building a great company over there. They are partners of Pavilion, you can check them out, get access to some of the courses that they have. I love paul's energy, I think you're really going to enjoy this one. So without further ado, let's get straight into my conversation with paul Fifield. Alright. This episode of the Pavilion podcast is brought to you by Sandoz. So Sandoz, so the leading sending platform is the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic points throughout the customer journey by connecting digital and physical strategies. Companies can engage, acquire and retain customers easier than ever before. Now, let's get into the show. Alright, paul Fifield, welcome to the revenue collective podcast. Good evening or afternoon to you. How you doing? Very good. Hi tom how's it going? Great. Great to be here. Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. I always love to know, especially in this day and age where folks are, are quarantining out of, so you're just in, in London London proper or where are you? Yeah, the real proper London. So North London, a place called Crouch End if you want to be specific. Yeah. And I haven't had a haircut for three months. I can't tell with the hat or maybe that's why there's a hat on. That's why I've hacked at it with myself and it's, I'm not a great hairdresser. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well this is it. This is a good time for you then because that's your, that's your built in excuse. Yeah. They're opening in one month. We've had them closed for three. Oh wow. So you got, you got another month of hat wearing to go self hacking, self hair hacking and hat wearing. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Well, I'm excited to have you on the show. There's a bunch of different topics I want to get into and we're going to talk probably for the bulk about sales impact academy before we do that. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up one of your earlier career experiences that I found pretty interesting. Just from looking at your linkedin, the first thing You did, you know, following university looked like you took $10,000, or you know an equivalent from your mom's credit card...

...to start a company and then ended up running that company for what five or six years looks like you got absorbed by a larger firm. So massively successful from a loan from your mom coming straight out of school. So I'd love to hear you tell that story. Sure. Yeah. Well you've come, you've come way back, we go deep. Yeah, I don't really talk about this very much but I'm obviously very happy too. So this is like back in, It was like back in 2002. And that would this would have been my third company actually by then as well. So yeah, I just I took it took got my mom to give me like 10 £10,000 offer credit credit card, bless her. Don't worry mom, it's gonna work, it's gonna be all good. And we set up a I mean we set up a production company and we were really focused back then on creating content for the web. But you gotta remember, I'm I mean I'm a fairly old git. So this is like back in Like 2001, 2002. So that like like there was like dial up was the main way that you access the Internet back back back then. So we'd be creating this content for various customers and like eight people would watch it. So the so the economics and when those eight people did watch it, it was pretty rubbish experiences like waiting to download, video on like a 56 K access to the internet was just not a great experience. But yeah, basically we created a production company and we branched out into all sorts of other things. We made tv programs, we made adverts, we made lots of editorial short form content on the web, which is really what we're kind of known for. We made some of the worst television you will ever, ever, ever see. And we made some some kind of cool stuff as well. So yeah, that's that's what it was. Yeah. And then we got kind of absorbed into a sold effectively sort sort of into a larger group and then, and then the journey continued. So you were just an entrepreneur at heart coming straight out of school, like that's a, that's a gutsy move, you know, to do that with no prior experience. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I found out, I don't know if this happens in America, but in your third year you can do a year like in, in industry and I was doing a computer science degree because my mom, it was my, it was my second degree and I remember my mom, I was hanging out in, down in a place called Devon in the south of England over the summer and my mom came down, she's like, you've got to get back into university and I'm like, okay, mom, and she brought down all these prospectus is of these universities and she's like Computers look like they're going to be really big and this is like 1997. And I'm like okay, I'll just go and do computers then. And I just, I just started to the degree is my second my second attempt at a degree in computer science. And then you have found out in year three. Yeah. Well, yeah, well year three you go into industry, but then I found out you could start your own company. I was...

...like, how cool. I've I've always, you know, wanted to do that. And so instead of going into industry and getting it going and doing a year at Microsoft, which by the way back then was that was when Microsoft wasn't cool and it was like, I'm not, I don't want to do that as it sounds awful. And I started my own company. And the first company was like a web kind of like agency thing, which was terrible. Well like the people I started with didn't I thought they were good at programming and they were rub it and it was a terrible, terrible experience. Anyway, I just never went back. I just kind of, I got the bug, did another one, did another one, did another one, did another one basically. Yeah. Yeah. And and then from there it looked like you, you had a number of stents, you know, managing tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue running sales organizations before starting sales impact academy about two years ago or a year and a half ago at some point in 2019, like you mentioned before the call that the the problem you're trying to solve is the, I think the quote is the biggest travesty in in education in the last 30 years. So one, correct me if I'm wrong, but to like tell me a little bit about like the problems that you're seeing here. Cool. So I think sure I'd love to so I think that I'll come onto that, that that kind of grand educational failure statement in a second, but you did get it pretty much bang on. Yeah, I think, you know, my career in sort of tech really really took off In about 2011. I co founded a company called Cerro's in New York, we raise some capital and, and, and and started growing that and thankfully that that when I was going to become a pretty successful company, we sold like half of it last year to a private equity firm for just over $100 million. So that's that was pretty cool and I was like the VP of sales in in that company, but it was pretty scary experience because we just raised, you know, we're just raising money from a, from a tier one VC in new york, great craft. I was put in this role of E. V. P. Of sales as, as a co founder, doing excited, fairly commercial kind of like naturally quite commercial. And everyone kept saying like just just go build this repeatable scalable revenue operation, it's just like how do you do that? I mean it sounds so easy but like, like how like how do you actually do? And there was no book, there was no there was no nothing, what when I say there's no book, I found a book which has just been published, it was very fresh called predictable revenue, right? And I don't know if you're familiar with the book, predictable revenue, but like, I literally had just been published and I because I was panicking and I was like, I was searching on the internet literally going repeatable scale of what revenue and you do this, I don't want to get fired and sent back to England, I kind of like I've moved my entire family to new york, I was crapping my pants like ah and I found the predictable revenue and I read it cover to cover and I'm like, oh my god, this now makes complete sense. I always...

...knew I was always fairly good with like sales cycles and that kind of thing. But I was not, I was like, the way that you are successful in sales is your pipeline, it always always, always, always starts with high quality, consistent pipeline into the sales function, you can get a lot else wrong but start start there and it was always unclear to me how you did it until I read that book, then I emailed erin and mary lou and I was like, you know, well I actually emailed erin Ross who wrote it, offering him a job. He turned me down, but they've ended up agreeing to do a consultancy gig and that, and that was great. And I bought my first str function at Sarah's and you know, it's still, there's a very big str function there today. And then I came back to the UK in about 2015, joined a student company. We went, that was a wild ride, we went from 2 to $40 million in revenue in like three years, I built 100 person plus, you know, organization in four countries that run around the gamut from STRS and a ES, two CS reps, but here's the thing and this is kind of, I'm now getting to the problem, which is like, I didn't enjoy much of that journey and there's a couple of reasons I didn't enjoy the journey very much, which is a couple of maybe slightly, slightly, slightly challenging ceo s but on a more personal level, it's incredibly stressful to basically be responsible for growing and delivering exceptional revenue growth, like, you know, 100 and 5200 300% annual revenue growth, and at the same time have to learn how to do your job right, and this goes to the fundamental like problem solving, which is if you think about it, sales on a global perspective is probably the biggest profession that is totally and utterly without any educational support. Now, do you think about finance or you think about like law or you think about H. R. Right, these big major professions that are very important to the functioning, the actual functioning of a global society, right? They've had over many, many decades, hundreds of billions of dollars have been invested in these professions and not just university and post university, like specialist schools like law school, but continuous professional development in work, right? If you're in in finance, you have to study and take exams every single year whilst you're working and if you fail them, you can't practice finance anymore. I mean it's pretty major educational infrastructure around these professions to ensure the world has the correct supply of highly skilled people in these professions, until you get to sales where there's absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing. It's not even like, oh there's a bit there and it's a bit rubbish, it's literally nothing. And if you think about it, here's an interesting stat for you, most people don't know this, 50% of the world's companies are B two...

B okay, And within every B2B company, the driver of growth of everything, right, nothing happens until you sell something that's the classic phrase the driver of growth is your sales and marketing function. So if you think about it, this is a problem that affects half the world's companies and you're probably talking about a body of people, a profession when you include customer success, B. Two B. Marketing and STRS and A. S. And all the rest of it and rev abs you're probably talking what 250 million people who are totally uneducated in their job, they haven't got the core skills because it hasn't been taught. And that is one of the most absurd, enormous giant letdowns from an educational perspective that you could you could possibly imagine and then and no one's really talking about it in that context. But that's the truth and what it means is companies then are forced to become educators. They're forced to go I'm going to build a sales function and now I have to build a support function to train the sales function, how to do their job. And that is absurd. That is it's like crazy that you think I'm going to go and build a finance function and now I'm going to build a finance training function to teach the finance function how to do their job. And the same with law. And then that So that's the problem. It's completely nuts. And that's why I said to the the opening just before we started recording it's the biggest educational travesty in the last 30-50 years. Yeah and I I agree with that and um you know I've been saying for for a while to like, you know, there's no outside of like, while you're at your job, there's rarely any classes in college. There's definitely no classes in high school or anything before that. And you know, I didn't even know sales was a real job until I started doing it. There was no one that told me in college that B two B sales was even a job opportunity, you know, it's like maybe I'll be a marketer or something like that, you know, I don't want to sell cars. That was like my only purpose. That was my only vision of like what a salesperson could be. So there's so little education, what's your take on as solving the problem, like, because there's other sales trainers out there, right? Like some are small, some are bigger, like what, what's your take on, like where you're trying to bring sales impact academy and how that fits into the landscape to solve the problem. Yeah, cool. So here's an important thing for us is that I never, I like we sort of ban the words sales training because kind of sales training has very cut that out. It's okay, it's fine. You can, you can say, hey man, freedom of speech, right? Um but we sort of ban it as part of our lexicon because the connotations of sales training is so terrible. It's basically a middle aged man in a really sh it's suit in a really ship hotel with no windows teaching you some ship on on terrible...

...power points for days on end and it's and and and this guy that's teaching you who's middle aged doesn't really care about it and hasn't done it for 15 years, right? That's the kind of like, and yes, I'm of course there's probably, there's good sales training and this bad sales training, but it's generally pretty, pretty ineffective and actually one of the major flaws of traditional fashion sales training is you pull a whole team offsite, you know, they're off site for a day, sometimes a whole week, which is just crazy, it's a whole week of not selling and also it's not a good learning experience, but if you think about how human beings learn, we don't learn by being bombarded with information for a week or a day or even a half a day, right? That is not how we learn and there's a reason why university degrees are stretched out over three years. And I remember when I was doing my second failed failed attempt at a degree, often thought like why is this so long, we could probably do this in a year, but it's partly because, you know, human beings just don't learn in this kind of like pack it all in boot camp star learning so, but here's the thing, so we yeah, like I said, we don't call this sales training, we're an education company, I'll just kind of go from a mile mile tangent, just just while I remember it. So we venture back. So we raised a little bit of sees, uh, actually precede it was like a convertible loan notes almost exactly a year ago. Just a very small one to, to sort of get us going. And it's an education based VC in London. And I remember one of the, one of the partners said to me this wonderful, this wonderful statement, which I've never forgotten, which is the root solution to all problems is education. And I was like, whoa, that's a big, that's a big statement. I was like, wow. And I was like, actually it's true, right? Actually, it really all comes down to education. And so I do firmly believe that the solution to this, this, this huge problem that we have in our profession, we can solve that through high quality education. And I think when you change the lens and think about this as a, we can solve this with education rather than solve this with training, I think it does change things quite quite a lot. And that, and that's where we are. We're creating an education platform. The way that we're approaching it is that this is a long term relationship we have with people, you know, we're expecting to have a relationship with people for many, many, many, many years. You know, our educational offering literally starts with new to Roll SDR and we have a fantastic new to Royal str course called urban prospecting sarah brazier from gong as we're talking about earlier on, is joining this guy called Mark Colgan and they're going to be co teaching that multiple times a year and we'll run that four or five times a year and we have that and we have right up to, you know, our most ambitious course yet, which is aimed at Cros called the definitive Guide to Revenue...

...leadership. And we have Mark roberts teaching on that. We have Pete Crosby who is like the Professor of Revenue in, in, in, in in the UK and mandy cole who was living social, had a brilliant career there and we have other guest stars and a bird who's the cr of outreach and lisa think you took Tableau from zero to a billion. That legend's group legends, alright, are putting together a 24 hour over 12 week course, which is, which is everything you need to know to be a brilliant modern revenue leader. So we're running the gamut right across this kind of broad, broad kind of range of topics and the way that we sort of deliver our teaching Is we only teach two hours a week, so, you know, I know again what it's like to be in a very high pressure sales environment. So what we don't want to do is interrupt the sales motion. So it's literally two hours of learning a week and it's highly technical and practical learning, it's not methodology, there's not like a sales impact academy way it's a, this is how to be a great str this is the foundations of how to be a great str here are all the foundations to be a great a and how you manage a sales cycle from, you know, opportunity to close close one and following these different milestones across the sales cycle and his best practice at every stage across that sales cycle, here's best practices on how to be a great rep, Here's best practices on how to use linkedin effectively for prospecting and sales. Here's best practices on how you use video and we've got to, to execs from Vidyard and here's best practices to use video and prospecting in sales and it kind of goes on and on and on and on. And we're just, we're just basically creating these very, very powerful and impactful learning journeys and we're now creating some more micro learning journeys like four hours over two weeks, we're releasing one on cold calling and every month you can just dive in and do four hours of live learning with some epic people every single month. You know, if you're a company and you're hiring people regularly and say, hey we use the phone line outreach, dive into like sales impact academies cold calling bootcamp, It runs every, it runs every month, make sure you, you enrolled onto the next one bang bang bang bang and we're keeping people educated, so the cadences and the other big thing is that we're live and that has a massive, massive impact on adoption and then completion as well because it goes into calendar, it's a bit a bit of an event. I mean we had a, we had a great milestone for us about four weeks ago with Sam nelson from outreach, you know, we had 1000 people in a class. It was, it was, it was wild, but it was awesome because I sat there thinking, well I sat there thinking this is quite funny because no one knows that there's 1000 people here, people were coming and asking questions and I was thinking, would you ask a question so freely if you knew there was 1000 people here anyway. But it was like, wow, we're literally this is what, this is my dream that we can start to teach at a really big scale and what I want this to get to is that one day we're...

...teaching 20,000 people live, 50,000 people live, half a million, half a million people live and the mode of teaching that we're developing is that we're creating these implementation packs so that once as soon as the class is finished, the managers or the team leads or the leaders of the VPs, whatever locally, let's take a break team, come back and let's discuss what we've just learned. We've got these implementation guides, we're going to half an hour more because just SAM nelson just dropped some seriously good stuff on how outreach have perfected sequences to get to get cut through with their prospects. Now let's talk about it as a team, we've got this implementation guide, Here's some documentation, we're gonna do a quick quick quiz, we're going to do a short exam and we're going to embed this learning for 20 minutes and then back to work and then we can just literally put it into practice immediately and bang see the results. And so we have this kind of like almost event scale learning classes followed by local embedding through three managers and team leads and that's how I believe that we can make a massive dent in helping hopefully one day millions and millions of people to sort of, to be educated in the core skills in our profession and that, that you hit on two of the things that, you know, I find to be really tough with with sales trading, one being, you know, the old, you know, middle aged white guy that, that hasn't sold anything in 20 years, which that's not everyone, but that's, you know, that, that happens. So I love that you've got people that are in the field, right, because SAM nelson is still at outreach, you know, he's doing the job and he's also is also teaching this and you have just a legendary cast of folks that you dropped there and the other pieces, the reinforcement, right? So I'd love to talk a little bit more about that because from my experience someone comes in even if it is a live training in person or you know virtually with with Covid you know you get hyped up, someone brings them in for sales kickoff and you're hyped up on this person and for like a week you're like oh I'm going to do all this stuff they said and then like if you ask him a month later, I don't remember anything. So like how would you if I'm a VP of sales or running a team like we just invested in this, whether it's money, time resources, all of it. We took our sales people off the phones. How am I making sure that they continue to actually do this for the rest of the year? Well I think a few things to unpack there and again, I think the other different approach that we have fundamentally there are subscription based model. Now obviously all revenue collective members as part of their subscription of their membership, get access to cells, impracticality on on an individual basis. Excuse me. Yeah and look we've got I think we've already got 1000 R. C. Members already on boarded onto the sales and backed...

...academy platform which is awesome. Whole bunch have already gone through some some courses and the feedback has been amazing. So here's a few things but you know the business model that we have is that we're a subscription service when we call ourselves sales education as a service. And so we're always there like, and this is the other problem with the old fashioned model, which is that coming for for a hit of learning, everyone gets part of, you know, really pumped and they go again and you have this decay, which, which happens quite quickly and then to your point, the company's dropped $200,000 on, you know, blah, maybe three months later, everyone's back into old habits and can't even quite remember what happened more to the point, the team has changed, You've had some attrition, you've hired 10 more people and you know, so actually it was almost a meaningless worthless, a futile exercise. We're a continuous like solution. So we were always there as well as ubiquitous as present as your crm. Right? And all of our courses like repeat four or five times a year, some of them are repeating on a monthly, on a monthly basis. So it's always always there. So if you're hiring people, you can stick them into the courses. Everybody then gets, we ensure that everybody's got the same level of skill all the time. So this is, this is constant kind of like that. So we have this ability to just constant reinforcement. Number two, the learning design is really important. Now we're not webbing, this is, this is, this isn't like every course that we do, it's not like a string of webinars. These are very highly like with, with very, very core learning design principles, we never teach more than 10 minutes. We have like interactive like breaks, we have knowledge checks each week during the course, we have tests at the end of the courses as well, So you get a certification which you then can put on linkedin or linkedin profile, we have people now tying in getting 60, or above in your end of course exam to your variable compensation. So that's another like incentive to get people to really, really kind of like focus and learn. There's another reason why people focus on the loan, which is this is such effective learning from world class people who are operating at the top of their game. You know, the likes of your Sam Nelson's and your celebrations and all this kind of stuff in the field right now, the stuff is so good that it actually affects your income right? Because you sell more, you convert more, you know, you retain more customers through this learning. But then this this this next layer which is that we're building implementation tools around each class. There's almost like a micro site of stuff that we're developing around each class which empowers the local managers and the local leaders to then continue the learning in a 1-1 perspective or 12 team perspective. So we could have 10,000 companies on a class and 100,000 people, but straight after class, all...

...of that learning then happens locally and we empower that to happen with the managers and the leaders and it's a really effective way of, of embedding that learning, you immediately apply it into your job like, like that and it beds in immediately, it's called Experiential Learning in fancy schmancy educational circles and I believe as a, as a blended pedagogy of scale and then embedding it's pretty smart and I do think it's infinitely scales. I think we can have a million people in a class one day and then have this kind of local learning happen through the support materials that we give those local managers and just to reiterate for anyone that's listening to this while they're walking the dog or you know, cooking breakfast like, you know, if you are a member of revenue collected, which you likely are, if you're listening to this, this podcast, you do have access to this on an individual basis to go in and you can check it out. It's for free. It's part of the subscription that you have with the community, which I wanted to underscore, which I think is a huge step for both parties really like, I just think it's a great, it's a great match and I just wanted to reiterate some folks know that, but I'm curious with you, you've done such great work in the, you know, 1.5, 2 years that, that you've been running this business. So it's still in a, in a fairly early stage, you have some great content, You have these great partners you're working with, where do you see it going? Like where do you, what are the things that are most important to you As you look out in the next 1-3 years? Is it finding the right, you know, more people to help teach things? Is it building out the courses? Is it just like we got a prospect into, you know, companies and start, you know, finding more customers. I'm just more curious where your head's at with that. Well we're about 15 months in. So we, I feel like we've You know, we've we've done a pretty, we've done a pretty decent job so far. We we've got about 35 employees, we have about 40 coaches Were expected by the end of this year to about 100 employees. We're talking in our R and M R R and Ndr because we're a subscription business and it's looking great because of this problem is so cute and I know because it looks like I say I had, I know the pain, I literally felt it every day like a dark cloud hanging over me for for a decade. So we have six schools. So the way that sells impact Academy is structured is across six schools, so we have management and leadership, we have sales, we have prospecting, we have customer success B two B marketing and we're developing the rev up school and each of those schools has some pretty amazing industry leaders to sort of as adjunct professors who are helping us build out depth in those schools. So for example, we're just about to announce dan Steinman has just joined. Now Dan was is the chief evangelistic gain sight. He wrote the book on customer success called customer success and he's like,...

...you know, one of the leading thinkers in customer success and so he's now an adjunct professor and he's helping us build out the CS school a few weeks back, we landed channing Farrah, he's the global head of revlon apps for hubspot and he's helping us develop development design, you know, the rev up school, we've obviously got marc roberge helping us with the sales school. We've been working with mary Lou Tyler for a long time now, she's helping us build out the prospecting school. So one of the most important things for us is is now building just unrivaled depth across each of those schools so that you could almost each of those individually could be a spinoff business, they've got that much kind of depth depth in them. So that's kind of like number one And that's getting to probably were about 25 courses now We'll probably want to get to 100 100 plus buy in in about 12 months in 24 months, we're talking maybe 250 at that point we've probably got the most comprehensive in depth learning catalog for go to market teams all over the world. The second thing is developing more on demand content that's going to be important. The third thing is that we're opening up our ASia teaching slot in H two this year. So 8:30 a.m. Mumbai time, which is going to be fantastic for all revenue, collective members out there. I should also just say that we're going to need hundreds of teachers. So anybody that's interested in teaching with us, please, please please do get in contact Hello at sales impact dot Io or just email me paul at sales impact dot io. And then the whole of Asia gets opened up to our life teaching product as well. So at that point we then have a life teaching product all over the world and then we just and we just, we just kind of like continue to scale right? And like I say, I really want to go and build out this this, this support materials and support programs. And like I said, I I really want us to, to, to to at some point within the next couple of years be having 2030 40,000 person classes because, you know, we are absolutely mission driven. I mean, I'm, I'm really, really want to help as many people as I can with this challenge and there's millions and millions and millions and millions of people to help. So with a lot of work to do to, to, to, to really lift the industry and support all these people to be, to be brilliant at what they do. And I think the, the impact, if we, if we, if we achieve that, the impact I think could be absolutely extraordinary. Yeah, I agree. And I'm excited for it. I love the mission that you're on and I'm excited to see where you guys go in the next few years, building out the content, continuing to get great coaches expanding worldwide. You know, again, kudos to you for kind of pushing this through on the revenue collective. I think all the members collectively are grateful to be able to experience this as part of, you know, what we're already doing through the community. So paul, I know we're getting short on time. I'm curious like...

...any last thoughts that you have and then I know that you just drop your email, but if there's any other ways that folks can get connected with you or, or learn more about sales impact Academy, let us know and and we can, you know, make sure to tee that up. Yeah, sure. I mean, linkedin is always good and pretty, pretty, pretty active there. So paul paul five field and you'll be able to find me pretty easily my email paul at sales impact dot Io I mean, I've been a member of the revenue collected for about three years in the London chapter. So I'm very familiar with the network. I've known SAM Jacobs for for a long time. I'm just really, I'm grateful for the partnership hugely as well and I'm, you know, it is one of the most exciting things to happen to the company and I think to your point earlier on the partnership is just such a beautiful partnership and it just brings such enormous benefits to, to both both parties and fundamentally two members, which is, which is fantastic. So I'm just really excited to be playing my part right to, to try and help the brothers and sisters in the sales world to do well and not be stressed. I mean it really comes down to that as a, as a basic, you know, as a basic kind of mission. Honestly I could go with a little bit less stress and we're getting close to the end of quarters that I can't, I can't say I'm going to remove all stress but hopefully the stress of, I don't know how I do my job that that bit we can tackle the end of quarter pressure. Like that's always going to be there. You have a course on that of trying, trying to hit your number before the end of the quarter. There you go. No course needs no course needed. That's awesome paul. I appreciate you coming on again everyone check out, you can definitely connect with paul and linkedin. Check out sales impact. Academy paul. Thanks for being so generous with your time man. No, thank thank you very much. I'd love to chat, cheers tom. Alright, thanks for checking out that episode. Again. This was brought to you by Sandoz, so they deliver modern direct mail, personalized gifts and other physical impressions that make your outreach more personal. I'll be back next monday with another episode until then hit me up on linkedin and get after it peace If you see some.

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