The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep: 84 Seth Kramer, Head of EMEA at Lattice

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep: 84 Seth Kramer, Head of EMEA at Lattice 

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, Thank God it's monday. Welcome back to the Revenue collective podcast, your host tom Alamo here helping revenue leaders to learn the tips, the tactics, the strategies they need to be successful in their role. I've got Seth Cramer joining today Before we get to all of the good stuff that he offered. Let's first give a shout out to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by quote a path, a commission tracking software built for sales, operations, finance and accounting teams. If running commissions in payroll has you running for the hills, quota path is for you quote a path helps organizations track and manage commissions and pay their teams accurately. And on time every time, keep your team motivated and non target. Simplify your commissions at quota path dot com slash revenue dash collective and give your reps the gift of transparency. Okay, today we've got Seth Cramer, he is the head of EMEA over Atlantis. He's been there almost five years before that. He was at Surveymonkey. Before that he was traveling the world for about a year and a half. And and he started his career at the very beginning at event. Right? So Seth has a ton of experience both life and professionally that we get into. He's had, you know, pretty much every sales role at lattice, from just being a lead e in 2016 to enterprise to sales manager to enterprise sales manager. Now opening up the in the office. So I think you're gonna really enjoy this conversation for anyone that is thinking about getting across the pond for anyone that wants to learn enterprise sales, anything like that. Seth is your guy. So let's get straight into my conversation with Seth Cramer. All right, Seth Cramer, how we doing? Welcome to the Revenue Collective podcast. Doing great. Thanks for having me tom Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to have you on for a number of reasons. Number one got to give you a quick congratulations for having a new baby for the families that your first. It is,...

...yes. It's our first little four month old girl. That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, it's been to be quite a right and I find that uh, she's teaching me a lot very quickly and I'm just trying to keep up. Yeah, I bet, I bet, uh, everything going on, you know, professionally, uh, you know, living abroad from your company, newborn baby, you know, life is easy for you right now. This is a piece of cake. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I know. I think especially when, you know, you, you're used to working specific hours and then you have a baby and that baby says actually I need to sleep during those hours. It's always a fun adjustment, but it's adjustment worth making for sure. That's awesome. And uh, just because we are in uh, in Covid, I would like to ask your in London. It seems like, yeah, So I'm based out of London, the company I work for currently lattice. Most folks were originally based out of san Francisco, but now I feel like it's sort of spread across across the states and across the globe, but I've stayed put in London. Yeah, awesome. So I'm excited to ask a bunch of different questions and kind of go into a few rabbit holes with you. I always love to hear a little bit about people's backgrounds, how they got into their career. It looks like, you know, you've really built, you know, majority of your career in sales as have I. So I'm curious like how did you get into sales? What was the way that you got into the industry? Yeah, that's a great question. It's part luck, part destiny. Maybe it's an overbearing way to say that, but I've always known that I wanted to get into sales. So my dad sold furniture and my grandpa sold furniture and my great grandpa sold insurance. And so for me it felt like Destiny I want to get into sales, but I actually never really took intentional steps like I should have uh as much as I might have wanted to and university in college. And when I graduated, I was at square one trying to figure out where am I want to work. And I was fortunate enough to go to school in the Bay Area and it was therefore had access to start ups. And one of the first, cos I looked at Eventbrite, I was super passionate about joining and...

I went to the recruiter and I was talking about why I wanted to be in sales and they were asking about my experience and I had none. And luckily the recruiter said, well why don't you look at online and see what jobs might fit your experience? And I picked up a little hint there that maybe I should think about my experience a bit more and I looked online and there was a role for client services that I had a great experience for. And so I was able to jump into event right for that. But what I didn't realize is that it was a weekend job, so I thought I was working monday to friday, but in actuality it was more like a Tuesday through sunday kind of thing. And the good news was after doing that for three months. They were open to me potentially switching over to a BDR role when I raised my hand and haven't looked back since from there. That's awesome. And after that stand, it looks like you were there, you know, 2 to 3 years and then went on a bit of a world traveling spree. So walk me through, you know why you did that and what that experience was like. Yeah, I think, I think it's sometimes known as the quarter life crisis or something like that. I think that's fair to say I had been in a e atlantic or sorry at Eventbrite for about two years and I had at the time I've always known that I wanted to travel. It was something that I knew I wanted to do and I kind of saw time slipping through my fingers in the sense that there was always a reason not to do it at first was because I was a video. I wanted to be an A and then I wanted the experience and then I didn't want to give up my, my flat because the rent was so good. There was always a reason. But I was fortunate enough to kind of go on a walk with my dad and we talked about all the reasons why I shouldn't. And he asked, well, why should you? And that helped push me to realize that if I didn't do it, then there was really no time to do it. And then I just let event I know, okay, I'm going to go travel and I thought I'd only travel for three months. But then That turned into six months and then eventually 12 months and then after about a year and a half, I decided, okay, actually I'm really, really excited to get back to...

...the tech sales world and make some money again inside working on my career and it's a decision. I'm really glad that I made. So were you solo the entire 18 months? No. So I first went with my buddy, which I, I definitely recommend. Uh, it was a lot to travel solo upfront. But from there, my friend and I after about four months or so we started in, I started in Southeast Asia and traveled through south South East Asia with him, went to Nepal India and then we parted ways. Still friends that he wanted to go back to the states and that's when I went to south America and from there I actually was traveling by myself for a while until actually randomly in peru and Cusco I met my now wife might not my partner on a trip track in Machu Picchu. So people joke about be careful if you go traveling, like your life might change. At least for me. It absolutely did when I met her because we traveled together for a few months and you know, I'm taking this call from London so obviously I've changed a bit there. That's crazy. And is she from London or from the UK? Yeah, yeah, she's english, wow. And was she traveling alone also? So she was working so part of her degree that she was doing was working at a local hospital in Cusco, but it was for the summer. And so I was like flexible because I was traveling, so I didn't mind spending a couple of extra weeks in Cusco and then ended up flying over actually to England to spend some more time with her after we met because it's sort of like a whirlwind thing and then we did a couple years of long distance, which was brutal. But then I got a chance to move over to the UK and haven't looked back since. That's awesome, man, That's a great story and I'm curious. So the 18 months go by, you come back and you're looking for jobs and let's say you find one like first day back into the office, after the world was your office for, you know, a year and a half, what was that transition back? Like I was excited for it. I mean a lot of people talk about the grind of the office or something...

...like that at times and sure it can't feel that way, but for me, part of what was actually really inspiring about traveling is it helped me realize that, you know, I got to see what life was like around the world and got to really understand just how lucky I was for the life that I was able to have just to even decide to go traveling. I remember I was in Colombia once and I was talking to someone on the bus and they were asking me so much about my life that I had never even thought it was interesting. I wanted to ask them about their life, but I realized like, wow, there's something at home that I really want to be a part of. Uh, and for folks who are worried, like, hey, how could this impact my career? If I, if I made a move like this, I'll just say for me, at least everyone I interviewed was super excited about it or had done it themselves. It did not impact the career at all. And I was able to find a job at a company that I really wanted to work at when I came back. I feel like definitely for me and probably for a lot of the listeners, we've got a little bit of wanderlust right now where we've been cooped up for the last 15 or so months. I'm excited as how to break out and go travel and as soon as you know, normal and acceptable to do so I'm curious like top place or places that you went to that really stood out that were game changers for you. That's a great question. I mean, I have to say Cusco was a wonderful city and not just because I met my wife there, although of course that's a huge part of it, but it was really cool to be steeped in that history and to explore Machu Picchu. It's just a whole beautiful place in the mountains. Also went to a little place in northern Thailand but I loved called Pie. It's like maybe four or five hours north of Chiang mai. That had this like really fun, like international vibe. Really small city, like no cars. Everyone went around on street bikes or at least when I was there for 10, 15 years ago. And then lastly I would say just trekking in Nepal was easily the highlight for me. It was wonderful people, really, really, really beautiful sights and it's fun just to get out there and walk every day. Seth Machu pichu is like the top of the list for me. So whenever that's, you know, acceptable to do so I'll be...

...hitting you up for some recommendations out there because that seems like just an amazing experience. Yeah, it was amazing. So when you came back was lattice the first place that you landed or did you have something before that? Yeah. So when I came back I knew a couple of things. The first thing is I wanted to work at a business that had an office in the UK. So I actually joined the company called Surveymonkey. Um and at the time, Surveymonkey was, was really working on sort of its uh, consumer marketing side of things or like maybe a better way to put it like market research. Uh And so it was actually a challenge at some point for some reason for me because at first it was really, I did really, really well and I was really excited about it and I raised my hand to move to the UK. But unfortunately, even though they agreed, like, hey, we'll move you out there. And I actually had my director sit me down and be like, okay, this is what your patch is going to look like, This is your quota. This is how will sponsor your visa. Unfortunately, the business made a decision, which probably made sense at the time, but they no longer needed the services that my sales team was selling. And so they let the whole sales team go. And this was back in May be 2015 2016, basically a year after I had come back from traveling and it might have felt at the time like a huge step back cause I really wanted to get to the UK. But it actually was a blessing in disguise because my whole 456 people are actually more like 14, 15 people all at once were let go and were able to network with each other. And someone introduced me to lattice to help consult them. Uh, and so I was just helping them figure out like, hey, how do we sell performance reviews, what is this? how do you talk to an HR buyer, that type of idea? And I got to meet the co founders who immediately want me over there. Just seemed super intelligent, super passionate. And then I'm Jack, the Ceo said, well, why don't you join us? And I was like, well, I'd love to, but I'm, I'm going to move to the UK and that has to happen. And to Jack's credit, at least for me. He said, well, why don't you just move to the UK and we'll give it a shot? So I was able...

...to actually join lattice remotely. Oh, so you started there out in the UK? And were you the first sales higher? Yeah, I was the first sales higher. I had, I had three months in the U. S. Office and I'm putting office in air quotes. I know people can't see me, but it was an apartment flat like like on 10th and Townsend or something where you know uh Jack and I were that we're taking calls from the bathroom, like that type of level of the startup at the time. But I got I got a chance to meet everybody and kind of get a sense of what the business was like before I shipped on over to the UK. But I've been I've been working out of the UK since then and I love I mean lattices has had tremendous growth and anyone that's you know at all in tune with the SAS world has has heard of lattice or is using it or evaluating it. I'm curious. Like I love the tagline that I see on people's headlines in linkedin was like I heart humans just like it just like brings such a you know, obviously like a humanistic approach or such a real approach to the business. I love that as a differentiator. Yeah. No, and I had nothing to do with it, although I immediately recognized it that I, I like to also loved it. But the marketing team at lattice is really good about kind of listening to our buyers. And the truth is what makes, you know what I love working with people apps and people specialists is they're passionate not about, you know, retention as, as a goal. As much as it's about the people, they want a place where people can grow and thrive and we were able to tap into that and understand that. And it's cool because the people you get to work with day in day out there also passionate about that. Um, like for us, at least it's always about how do we make work meaningful? Uh, and, and to me that's a goal worth doing. I'm curious when companies sell a certain solution, you have to imagine that they do that thing particularly well. Right? So for example, I work at gong like call coaching, we do a lot of call coaching...

...my dramatic. Uh so Atlantis, I'm curious like, how does the company, you know, create a better environment to work in? Like how how do they do that internally? Yeah, I mean, I think the easiest answer is we use lattice, right? But it's so mission critical because I think if you don't walk the walk, don't talk the talk to what your business does, it's impossible to sell it. So I remember even like early days when we had our first performance review as a company of lattice, and to be honest, we probably still pretty small for performance reviews. Maybe only 15 or 16 people, but I posted and slack. I was like, everyone write your performance review because if you don't do that, how can I go out there and talk about the importance of understanding it? But as we've grown and we really needed to come up with a place where employees can thrive and grow. I think a big thing for me is like, well, big program. So for example, lattice and I've seen this happen now, I think three times. But if you're an employee and you work at lattice and you go to start your own company, we'll invest in your company. There's an actual lattice seat front. And that to me is such a cool way of walking the walk when it comes to like, hey, we want you to be successful and maybe that doesn't necessarily mean that you should be successful here, especially if we're just a stepping stone for you to go start your own company on a macro scale. I think that's really impressive. And then more on the micro, like day to day, the sales team, we have our own, our own company values and we do praise and whoever gets the most praised for a certain company value gets rewarded as well as something that I really think is important, which I think goes with call coaching. Right? But feedback, so we have this idea of feedback is a gift and it's so cool to be able to feel comfortable jumping into a meeting with someone and they come after like, hey, you did this, this and this really well. But what if you try this better and it's helped me improve a lot as a professional and I'm really grateful for it. Feedback is a gift. I love that line. Yeah. How often do we not to get too deep on this? But how often do we hear that? And as soon as, you know, you're getting some like, you know,...

...feedback or constructive criticism. The first inkling your, your eyes start to kind of twitch and your shoulders tighten up and you start to look at your feet. But ultimately that is what makes you better, what makes the company better and it makes it more enjoyable, I think, to work there when people aren't afraid to, you know, have those types of conversations, obviously in a respectful way, in a helpful way, you know, you're not demeaning, people are being rude, but if everything, if people are afraid to give that feedback, something's gonna go wrong and it's going to blindside you at some point. Absolutely. And I think reminding yourself feedback is a gift is super helpful for when you're receiving it because you don't want to get emotionally hijacked. You want to take a second and be like, wait a minute. This person is actually being vulnerable with me and having a potentially confrontational question. And if you can, or sorry, confrontational moment and if you can recognize that, then it makes it a lot easier to be open to it. But on the flip side, something that I try to remind myself of that to give feedback. I think I actually struggle more, at least initially giving constructive feedback. Then I did receiving it because you just think, you know what, I don't really need to have this conversation right now. I'll do it next week or I'll do it next month, but I'll do it any email or my performance review whatever it is and the challenges. It just never gets done. And someone and someone is doing something that maybe you could help them improve on and they'll probably be grateful for you if you do it, you just have to remember this is something that I should do. Yeah. I actually really stink at that. I am just opened up the book radical candor because I know it's something that I need to work on. I don't know if you've read that. Yeah. Yeah, but kim scott. Yeah, that's she's like, so we do a tongue with her because she just like kind of revolutionized this just like how important it really is. And yeah, that's a great read. Yeah. So it sounds like as you're you've been at lattice now for for I think 44 to 5 years at this point. And I'd love to hear how you help to take the company upmarket into the enterprise because I imagine in the HR world I've never sold there. But there's a lot of old, you know,...

...kind of legacy platforms that you're coming up against as the upstart. So I imagine the first few enterprise sales were really tough as they are for any startup. I'd love to just here you talk about how you navigated those waters totally. Yeah, so maybe maybe some helpful contacts. So I started lattice as an I. C. Is the first A. And I sold for about three years. So I was fortunate enough and not everyone has this, but if you do have this, it certainly makes your job easier to really kind of start to get a sense of what Type of objections are market customers might have what the lay of the land, the features they may or may not care about. So I was lucky enough to close some deals up there in like for us, I think the average contract value was pretty low at the beginning, you know, 5000 or something like that. And I mean it was absolutely a Slumdog millionaire moment type of deal or just literally everything that needed to go right went right, but it was able to close to $250,000 deal and just learned so much from that plus lost a few more gray hairs. But anyways, when I was able to transition to leadership and eventually focus on the enterprise segment for me, what was really important is taking some of those learnings and translating it to more of a process perspective that others could learn. So, I mean this isn't like just my thoughts. I work with my colleagues on this, but really thought it broke it down into four pieces. So we thought a lot about all right, where is the product need to be? Was the right processes from like a sales process perspective to be successful, Of course, what is the people like who the right people that we need in place? What is the right profile from until you look like? And then perception, how do we, how do we position ourselves in the market as not only an enterprise provider, but also, you know, understanding what type of tools or what type of challenges enterprise buyer might have. And so kind of breaking it down and teach those different for things, was able to understand like, okay, for example, from a perception perspective or positioning perspective, it's really important that we can do more than just one thing. So talking about how we can...

...solve multiple challenges that was really big. And I would say another big thing for us was just focus because there's so many types of businesses, you can go after the enterprise. And what we realized is if it wasn't a specific company size, it wasn't worth our time. Even if they want to talk to you, you eventually won't be able to service them. And a lot of good rap sort of burnout when they try to win these unwinnable deals over and over again, meaning that the companies were too big for you to be able to have. Yeah, exactly. Like Knowing your upper boundary is really important. We might be able to go work with a 50,000 person company and hopefully will be in a couple of years, right? But at the time when I was focusing on it, that just wasn't a deal that we could win even if google wants to talk to you. And it's it's so natural to to chase those as a rap. That it's really important from a leadership perspective to just give them the guardrails. They don't have to make those decisions. They can just look at it and be like okay this is well outside of our boundary and then you've got to be a little bit flexible. There's always going to be some deal that tests you where it's like maybe doable and that's where just like having those cross functional relationships is really important. Especially in Enterprise Leader. Can't stress that enough. You need to really understand and empathize with products. You need to understand and empathize with your C. X. And marketing teams because they are supporting you. It is it like moving up market is not something you can do by yourself. You need the whole organization behind you. I'd love to spend a minute honing in on that 250 K. Deal. Or you can take another deal in the early days. But when you're talking about the average sales price early on his five K and then you swing a quarter of a million deal. That's a huge, that's a huge thing. And I was talking with a friend last week who is in that transition where he was selling those more transactional deals. He was the best in his company of doing it. And now he's kind of soloing out into the enterprise and trying to figure it out and kind of banging his head against the wall. So I'd love to hear your perspective on how you can kind of measure those smaller winds, right? Because there's...

...not instant gratification In an enterprise level deal where it's going to be that big. That probably took you I imagine 69 12 months. So how do you kind of measure progress to make sure you're on the right track when you're working something that's so new and so big? Yeah, it's a great question. And with that deal specifically you're right, it did take about 6-9 months. But what was interesting was, and I think this is fairly common most of that time was just trying to get into the door of the right person and then once all of a sudden the right people were introduced, it moved almost scary fast through everything legal, everything. So it can be even that's just another challenge where like you might feel like you're not making any progress, but you're actually a couple weeks away from cracking the account. You don't even know it. In terms of your question. I think you know how I might be answering it is like how to translate how when you're selling to the enterprise the first time to figure out what's important progress to make and how to make sure that you're building out the right process to make it repeatable. I think at first I would say don't over engineer anything because it's just so new, you need to have the mindset of experimentation and be really, really open to be like, hey, we're going to try this. If that doesn't work, we're going to try that. So for example, when we were building this out for lattice on the enterprise scene, we were like, hey, let's really, really try to see if we can break into retail because it just made sense. Like, and it wasn't, there's not a lot of competitors there and not that we can't service retail, but the truth is, the type of employee in retail, the end of the day doesn't need lattice as much as another company could and we figure that out. We moved away from that. But then we were able to break into some segments where we realize this actually does work for us. And some of the learnings that we got from our mistakes made us feel confident that we're in the right place. So that was a big thing for me is not over engineering it. I'd also say from a sales process perspective, like, I mean I'm even using the word sales process, you really want to think of it more as like a customer buying process. So like talk to your customers. I'm sure you have friends who work at companies that you want to break into that can introduce...

...you to like an HR person, not even to sell them. But just to be like, how do you think about this software? Why do you buy it? It's really, really, really helpful even if it's not in the selling contacts. Because then you can be like, oh, wait a minute I were pitching the wrong contact or we're trying to push the buying cycle outside of when they do budgeting, it's never going to work. And those types of learning for me, I was able to get a lot when I was just selling it, but also reached out and talk to people at those companies because I'll tell you how to buy from them. Just got to ask Yeah, that's great advice. And I want to pivot a bit to what you're doing, building out the UK office in lattice and building out the UK team from what it sounds like. Yeah, I'd love to hear how you're planning to do that with, you know, knowing the context, that one it's still, you know, covid and likely you might not have the office yet. I'm not sure you might be doing this all over zoom or through computers versus seeing people in person, but also trying to use the same values that lattice has in the US and understanding that things might be a little bit different in the UK, but you want to kind of keep the same culture. So I'm just curious like how you balance that whole stew of challenges to create an amazing office out in the UK. Yeah, it's a great question and there's certainly a lot of challenges and I think maybe the first thing I should say is like I'm still learning and I really, I find it really, really important to talk to other leaders who have been through these types of things because they're so helpful because they can help give you guidance. But from what I've seen and what I've worked on, you know, I think first from the culture piece, I would say that the culture of lattice is probably one of its biggest competitive advantages in the space. And that doesn't necessarily mean direct, direct competitors. It just means like employer brands. And I think it's really important to take some of our values that have been so meaningful for us. Like we have the value ship, ship may itself. And for me that's super helpful because whenever I'm facing a challenge, I can think about it from what is the ship need, what's best for the ship Ship May itself, that type of idea or clear eyes. We talked about the...

...gift of giving feedback a wonderful signal for hey, I'm about to give you some feedback That could be challenging is hey, is that you have a moment for some clear eyes feedback. And so when the values can integrate into the culture, it's obviously magical. You don't want to mess that up. So I think it's really important to see that in the UK and take what's worked there and what we know works. But at the same time I don't want it to be like a carbon copy of the lattice culture. So I think what's really important is also giving space for making those first key hires and we are hiring for all, go to market positions in the U. K. Right now and I'm looking for those foundational members as we speak and those folks can come in and they can share like, hey, this is what I'm passionate about, this is how I like to work for me. Like I love games, I want to have a fun game environment. We can let the latest UK culture organically grow and be sort of like a cultural addition to what made lot is so successful. That's great. And as we're getting close on time, I'd love to hear you talk for just a second about, you know, the value that you see in, in networking. And obviously this is the revenue collective podcast and just curious like how you might leverage the community if it's everyone seems to do it differently if it's slack or one on one connections or events or you know, something else. I'd be curious to hear your take on this community and then just networking in general. Sure. Yeah. Well the revenue collective communities been super, super helpful for me. I just mentioned a second ago, I love gaming. I love games, I should say. And everyone picks up like nice covid habits or it feels like that way. But for me, I picked up a gaming habit where I like to play war zone with my friends and uh, for those of you who don't know war zone, that's probably for the best because it's super addictive, but it's a, it's a first player shooter and I didn't grow up playing those and I'm not very good at it if I'm just being honest. And so as a result of that, I die a lot. I get killed a lot and I looked online for how do you, how do I get better? Right. And I was expecting a lot of like...

...tactical advice like do this, use this is this weapon, whatever. But what I found the most helpful was actually this advice of just get into more engagements that's all set to get into more engagements, just do it more. And I thought about that and I realized that's actually pretty useful advice for a lot of things in life about everything. But how I, how I've been using revenue Collective. It's just to help me get more engagements with people who know a lot. So I'm able to set out, you know, hey, I'm struggling on this problem and four or five people raise your hand like, yeah, I worked on that problem. I'd love to, I'd love to help you out. And what strikes me is it's not even that first conversation, which sometimes you only have 30 minutes and how much can you get out of that? But folks are also like, yeah, and if you have continuing questions, hit me up. I'd love to answer them again and like help you out. And to me that means like, Okay, this is really helpful for me. How can I pay that forward to others? So just having that place where you can connect with folks and work on problems and share best practices. That's been super impactful for me from the get go since I joined, whether that's building out the enterprise function or figuring out mia that's great. And any resources that you've used that have been particularly helpful for you. Like books, podcast, people you follow on Youtube or instagram and any topic could be relevant, but I'm just curious like any anyone or any things that have been impactful for you just in your life. Yeah, well there's been a ton of people have been in platform for me in my life I think a big learning or where I've been really fortunate in my career is people talk about the importance of networking externally and it's super important, but there's also a ton you can learn from your peers, so just being able to for example Dini meta whose Arciero lattice she's been you know, I think you're allowed to be someone's mentor and the boss, because if you are like that's what she is to me and I can learn so much just by watching her do what she does and learning is really, really important. I think people learn different ways, but all that really matters is you gotta do...

...it for me, I get a lot of value out of reading it almost doesn't matter if what sales book you're reading, if you're reading a sales book, you're probably being more intentional about your process and because you're being more intentional about your process, you're probably improving. But I also really like social psychology, so books that have been foundational for me thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kinnaman, I'm forgetting he wrote it, but the happiness hypothesis around positive psychology has been really impactful if I want to combine that with sales, I really liked the psychology of selling or the science of selling and I think a lot of people say this one, but for me, also influenced by robert Cld me, it was a foundational book for me that I really enjoyed helping me apply, not just how to be a better seller, but I'll be a better person. That's great. Those are all great recommendations and I couldn't agree more about also the networking and, you know, kind of selling of yourself and creating relationships internally, as well as externally as you're trying to grow within the company and and learn from people. Set this was a blast. I'd love to give you a chance to just talk about for a second. I know you're hiring across the board where folks can reach out to you if, if they're either interested in a position or they just want to learn more from you or, or connect with you one on one. Of course, yeah, I would say, um, of course, revenue collected for folks who are members there, feel free to pick me and I always try looking at the channels to see if there's anything I can help with and, and pitch in my time or, or share an answer there muscle on linkedin. So feel free to add me on linkedin or message me on linkedin and uh, yeah, check out our latest careers page. We're hiring states across the board, across almost all roles and positions were going really quickly. And then personally for me and the media, if you're interested, we're hiring in Seaq sales and marketing. Awesome. I appreciate it. Said thanks for coming on. All right, thank you. All right. Thanks for checking out that episode while you were walking the dog or brewing your coffee or whatever the heck you're doing again. I'm tom Elena. You can look me up on linkedin. I work at gong uh co host this podcast and please give some love to our guest...

...today. Seth Cramer One lash out to our sponsor. This episode was brought to you by quote a path quota. Path is the first radically transparent and to end compensation solution from sales reps to finance. Get started for free at quota path dot com slash revenue dash collective. Until next week. Yet after peace, Say something. Mhm.

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