The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Ep: 57 Sales, Creating Content and Venture Capital w/ Conor Gleeson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales, Creating Content and Venture Capital w/ Conor Gleeson 

Part of the TGIM (Thank God it's Monday) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

...all right, Thank God it's Monday.Welcome back to the revenue collective podcast. Your host to Palermo here. Andthis is where we talk about and learn from the top revenue leaders in all ofme to be to learn about what our sales marketing operations, folks doing tosucceed in today's age. So thank you for joining, and hopefully this episodecan help you up level before we get into today's conversation. I just wantto give a quick shout out to our sponsor our sponsors. Six cents, sixcents. The number one account engagement platform helps you identifyaccounts that are in market for your solution. Prioritize your efforts,engage buyers the right way with highly relevant messaging and measure whatactually matters. With six cents platform, you're able to get into moredeals and win rates. Increase overall pipeline and optimized budget spent. Tolearn more, visit six cents dot com slash revenue collective him. And fortoday's episode, I go deep with Conor Gleason. So Connor is probably mostwell known for his work that he did at Card to spend about 2.5 years. They'reclimbing up from 80 to a mid market sales leader simultaneously, he and afriend of mine shout shame. Ms. Newman co founded the cap table, which is, uh,you know, a content platform that is talking about, you know, venturecapital and investments and startups. VCs, operators, founders. They'reinterviewing them. They're talking about these topics. That operationactually got acquired by Sakura in December of 2020. Connors, now one ofthe founding members of Sakura, And they are on the sell side research forprivate markets. So we talk about everything, man. We talked about how hewent from Black Rock as a financial analyst to get into technology. Hispassion for venture capital and private markets talked about his time at Carterand how it was just such an unbelievable experience for him to givehim an entrepreneurial mindset into some of the work that he's doing now.So I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. If you do, you can findus more on Apple podcast. Give us a five star review. Hit me up on LinkedIn.My name is Tom Alaimo. Without further ado, here is my conversation with ConorGleason. Alright. We've got Conor Gleason, part of the founding team atSacra. Good afternoon. Welcome to the show, man. Yeah, thanks for having me.I'm excited to get into this. Shout out to our mutual friend, Shamus Noonan,who kind of indirectly connected us. So how's your president? Sago and Connor.It's doing well. Yeah, uh, famous, I think, is on the slopes somewhere. Sohe's got a little bit better than me. I'm I'm still working today, but, um,enjoy it. Nonetheless, no one enjoys life or or, uh, can really just live itup as much as shame. As I feel like, the guy is always laughing. He's alwayshaving a good time. Does not surprise me that he's having a good time skiingright now. I'm excited to talk to you, man, because I think there's a fewthings that are really top of mind as I'm thinking about you know, you andyour path And what's so interesting? I want to just start at the beginning fora second to give people some context. So it looks like, you know, uh, I knowthat you've been in sales and you've been driving revenue for several yearsnow, but it looks like you started really in the financial world atBlackRock. So I'm curious, just like early on your career. Like, how didthat transition happen from getting where you could have gone in fordecades? You know, at a company like BlackRock being an analyst and get intosales or even into text sales? Like, what was that transition and what wasthat pivot like? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it it's easy toconnect the dots. In retrospect, in reality, it's probably just a lot morerandom stuff that happened when I was a black rock. I you know, it just seemedlike the most obvious thing that I...

...should go and do would be to go work ata company like that, basically just a resume booster. But it ended upbecoming something a little bit more transformative. I really got to learn alot about financial services and the sales aspect of that, and it was apretty buttoned up culture, so sort of like seven AM at your desk. You know,God forbid you don't shave that day or wear a tie. That doesn't look great. Um,but really, that's sort of like buttoned up financial services culture.It wasn't necessarily what I wanted to to surround myself with from aprofessional setting perspective. And when I realized that I was there forabout a year and I got a cold call from a recruiter who was at a private equityfund saying, Hey, we like your background, We're looking for peoplethat can kind of help us go out and acquire some of these wealth managementfirms and registered investment advisors, multi family offices thatthat company was called Focus Financial Partners. So it was kind of like I'vebeen in the trenches a year at BlackRock realized that long term thatwasn't what I wanted to do and took the opportunity to kind of make a quickjump in my career to something that ultimately ended up becoming a prettygood dot com. Yep, that's a great, uh, cold call from the recruiter. Honestly,I've never gotten a cold outreach from a recruiter that I even I mean, if Ilike the company, maybe I take the meeting. But I can't name a time thatsomeone has cold called me for a company, and I've actually taken theinterview on that. Yeah. Yeah, Well, look, everybody has a cold call. Ithink that's one of the greatest skills that any person in their career canlearn is how to cold call. So it was a good one, and I took it. Yeah, I lovethat. I love that. And then, um So it looks like, you know, shortly thereafter, you know, after sending that first role, you moved over to Carta.And part is now, from the outside, I don't know too much about them, butthey just they seem to really be making a dent in startups and equity. So I'mcurious, like, now you're getting into this world at this point your career,where you're doing sales, right? Presumably, or you're having success. Iknow that you are rising within the company, but you're also kind of haveyour eyes on the path of financial markets and equity and and some ofthose things that probably studied in school you were doing at Black Rock andseems to be something that's really interesting to you. So walk me throughthat a little bit of Of what? Your experience that Carter was like, Yeah,I think one. I was really drawn to the company's mission if you read anythingthat the CEO Henry War is written about public markets being this reallyaccessible, easy way to go and buy and sell stocks, but private markets beingreally broken and disjointed and lacking sort of transparency. And whenI worked in the PE firm, we went through an acquisition by K K R and acouple other really big private equity investors and the financial outcomesfor some stakeholders. We're far less or or non existent compared to whatsome of the expectations were and having worked another very early stage.Startups, You see a lot that happens around equity where you kind of in theback of your mind start to think. You know, does anybody make money workingon these artists, except for possibly the founder, early stage investors andrealizing a lot of like how equity is constructed and manages was reallybroken. So that was like number one. Was the vision again? Shout out AnneLarsen got a cold call from Recruiter at the same time that I was looking atCarter as possibly my next career move,...

...and I had this thing in the back of myhead of like I moved to San Francisco. You know the area to go and do startupsto go and take a big swing to try to work at a company that you just gotthere at the right time. And, you know, you do hear some of the success storiesaround equity and how it can be transformational in terms of wealthcreation. And that's what I wanted. I wanted to to go and do something, andthe timing seemed right. They just raised a Series C. I got in, uh, midmarket account executive level, and it just seemed like a way for me to go and put a bunch of runs on the board. I wasactually looking at another company called six cents at the time, and thatwas more like an enterprise type sale. And if you know Carter, who they serve,it's mostly an SMB mid market type of sale. And the logic picking between thetwo companies at the time was the background seemed right for me, youknow, based on stuff that you just mentioned. And you know, the idea ofthis company's got great product market fit, but it still needs, you know, acomplex type sale. It's a really a true mid market type sale. Um, where youknow the A. C. V s may not be as big as an enterprise motion, but they're justas long and complicated. So a good way to really kind of just learn sales and haveexposure to some great mentors like Hank Caulkins, John Long Year CodyAnderson, Alessandro Chesser. A lot of folks there that just really took meunder their wing and said, Hey, like, let's go pour gasoline on your salescareer and see where it can take You and I started gravitating more towardsthe management track internally and ended up taking a team of eight accountexecutives as a as a line manager there. And at what point did you start totinker with what eventually got known as the cap table? Yeah. Um, so you knowthe name is funny because card is a cap table software company. It just seemeda little cheeky, but part of my emotion as an E was looking at New Dealfundings. So we had a really strong inbound machine. Could is the marketingteam and then a really, really, really strong outbound sales team, which wasreally driven by RSD, our core at the time. Actually, my brother was one ofone of our S ers, and I kind of was saying, like, when do people want tobuy cap table software? It's not like a something you can point to like some ofthese rev tools you can point to six cents and say, like, Oh, yeah, we'regoing to see a huge lift on our, you know, close one business for a quarteror same with Gong. Same with some of these other tools and platforms likenobody is lying up at night worrying about their cap tape. Most of time, acaptive was managed by someone's attorneys on an Excel spreadsheet. So,like figure out what are the triggers to want to buy something like this. Oneof them is actually a foreign and evaluation, which is something creditdoes, and you need to get a new foreign evaluation anytime you have a materialevent like fundraising. For an example, the easiest lowest hanging fruit isevery time someone company raises money, they'll need to go get a new foreign.An evaluation to set the strike price further stock option grants thecompany's fair market value. It's an IRS thing that is inescapable,unavoidable and for the most part there's exceptions. But for the mostpart, you have to file form rig D or C...

F or A or a plus with the SEC. Sobasically, I figured out a way to scrape these SEC filings and come upwith these lists of companies to take to go to the SDRs and say, Okay, gosource me meetings with these companies. What we found was, that is anincredibly high hit rate because you're going to them right when this financingis closed, they need a tool. They understand the pain points, and itbecomes a very consultative and a much higher success rates sale. So that wasthe genesis of it, and I turned it into a Twitter handle, an anonymous Twitterhandle called the cap table. I bought the domain. I started putting out thesenewsletters to a really small group of friends, probably like 15 or 20 peopleand tinkering around with, like, commentary, and it wasn't any good. Itwas pretty bad, but I left the Twitter kind of out there doing its own thing.Retweeting these things that I figured out how to scrape. So put that in thebackground. I'm working on my career. I'm working on forging ahead with amanagement career, joined RC and then I met Shamus, actually, through revenuecollective by way of an introduction from Josh and Ronnie runs The SFO hadour chapter here Josh, Josh, Josh, great mentor and great for RC. Butbasically, he said, Hey, you should get in touch Sky Shamus. You know he'sworking at Crunch Base your car to both in the same kind of world. And so Ireached out very Irish, both American guys with Irish names, Um and, uh but,you know, he said, Hey, I'm I'm really interested in getting into Angelinvestments and venture capital and, you know, that's kind of intersectionof everything at Carta and Crunch Base. So we both geeked out on thesedifferent things and he mentioned, Hey, like I'm thinking about doing anewsletter and, you know, my eyes kind of lit up. It was like I have thisthing that I started that if we put some work into it, I actually thinkthat, like a lot of the ground works there. Let's just do it. And that night,shame has sent me this, like 10 page deck. Like how we would work togetherand what it would look like. And, you know, market sizing all, like, reallythoughtful. And I was like, This is insane. Okay, let's do it. And then wekind of fussed around what the format was gonna look like. And then, finallykind of landed on this idea of doing exclusive interviews with investors,operators, founders, all the people that you would see on a cap table.Right? So the taking advantage of the brand name and legs. And so we starteddoing it and remarkably, like, you know, if you do any sort of outbound coldoutreach to people, whether it's for sales, business, development, whatever,like, usually have a pretty low response rate. But what we found wasthat there was tons of people out there that wanted to tell their story andfocus on this sort of emerging type of person who maybe it doesn't have theblue trip blue chip VC background but is more of like a founder operator andreally, really, you know, double triple down there and now I think we're comingup almost on a year in this current format and then obviously in December,got approached with a really cool opportunity to It's basically twofoldthe cab table into Sakura, which is now my new employer. And Shamus is anadviser, so that's awesome. So were you doing, uh,was it a weekly newsletter that your...

...foot down then, just like varioussweets and things like that, or what other types of every So as a weeklynewsletter published every Friday at 10 a.m. For no other reason than that wasthe first time that we shipped it and decided to keep it consistent. We had acouple sort of like topical, you know, type issues where we go a little offbook and maybe do like deep dive on a specific topic. But yeah, the most partof his weekly and, uh, take off a couple holidays here and there. I love it. I love it. And so can you.Can you walk me through what that was like with with soccer? So theyapproached you and you don't have to share. Obviously, you can only herehowever much you're comfortable with, but like how did that. How did thatdecision kind of take place between All right, where? You know I'm at a companyright now. I'm working on this on the side to all right, I'm gonna take myefforts because, you know, from however, Big Carter is right, pretty well knownbrand, at least in in the Bay Area to go to a situation where I'm going 0 to1. I think you're the second higher and really kind of, like start somethingfrom the ground up. Like, what was that decision making process like for you?It was stressful. I think the biggest consideration was like leaving, youknow, invested card equity on the table. Truthfully, financially, that was like,the biggest thing that went through my mind. But it was I was approached byone of the board members of Carta. Arjun Sethi was actually the very firstt c. T. Exclusive. And he said to me and Shamus Hey, you guys should meetWalter, Chen and Yan Eric Aspelin, the co founders of Sacra. You guys arethinking about stuff in the same space. I had actually been working with CarterVentures, so Card Adventures is in house corporate VC for Carta. And I'vemade it very well known to my manager to all the management team there that Iwanted to go and start a company. And I was actually at the same time pitchingthem and a couple of different ideas, one of which was actually a Southsideresearch platform or company not dissimilar to to Sacra. And it wasinspired by a blog post that Henry Ward, the CEO of Carter, had put out talkingabout the types of companies that Carter wanted to back. And so I spent alot of time this market, and I guess it was just exactly what I was looking for.Maybe not necessarily going and being a founder, but for someone stillrelatively junior my career to be able to partner with, really, you know, afounding team that's that's really up to snuff and has had an exit in thepast and sustainable, viable, very successful, you know, sort of cash flowbusiness before that or after that. Like it just it seemed like such aperfect, serendipitous mix of things going on that I just couldn'tsay no at the time, and I would never have done it any differently. Also, Ithink you kind of earn your keep for sales at a company like Carta, and theother thing was that I left on great terms to extend the lake. You go to avery, very, very early stage startup and things don't work out. I don'tthink it would be crazy to go back there to boomerang back, but obviouslyyou plan for success and not sort of contingencies. But it was very much aabove board, well thought out transition that I'm actually incrediblygrateful to the folks at card out for being able to do that. Like you hearall this time in Silicon Valley. It's actually about people, you know,incubating side projects and hustles...

...and then going off to launch them andthen getting sued, right rip, This was the exact opposite. It was done out inthe open with consent, and I think is one of the things that makes part ofspecial places that now that they encourage that they want more foundersto leave Carta to go on and do other things. Yeah, and kind of start thatalmost like an alumni network, right, like that's where you learned some ofthe entrepreneurial skills while at a company and be able to tie it back tothem. So I'm curious for the folks out there that are either have or are orinterested in real, real, like ground level startup going 0 to 1, which iswhat you're doing right now at Sakura. Walk me through a little bit of what?What's currently on your plate for? Because I think you're you're runningreally? All the revenue functions. It sounds like they're so tell me aboutlike, Like, what is your digging the hole like, What exactly are you doingright now? Yeah, I think I'm running the what will be revenue Finance? Um,we want to still still pre products. Still pre revenue. Um, well, we've gotsome revenue, but it's not necessarily like the recurring style that we'regoing for speaking a lot too potential customers. So a little bit about soccer.Basically, our mission is to create transparency in private markets, andwe're doing that by creating software platform to be able to basically lookat private companies from an investment perspective and being able to make aninvestment into those companies. So there's a lot of different participantsin secondary markets. It's incredibly fragment and broken and black andtransparency. We aim to right now create research reports for specificnames like we've done. We work. We did front most recently just launchedbeacons he link in bio company that is also doing a Greg CF. And so what we'redoing is we've got a really small short feedback lib for sort of our I wouldn'teven call it a beta product. But our research product, as it is today, to beable to go out to these participants and say like, Hey, we've created thisresearch and here's here's all the differentsort of bull case bear case base case for these companies. What otherfinancial data would you like to see? What other companies would you like tosee us doing this coverage on all that working towards a structured dataplatform whereby we've got an API to plug into the rest of the ecosystem,protect perspective and then a proprietary research platform for endusers to consume? It's all had to say. Right now I'm doing a lot more businessdevelopment and outreach to market participants, private companies thatcould benefit from from soccer, engaging in research. Whether that'sfrom like a, you know, fundraising perspective. Or they're going to go on,you know, an M and a road show. Or they're going to have a secondarytransaction or even just for recruiting, right. There's lots of benefits knowingwhat your equity is worth. Those are the conversations I'm havingmost frequently. And then, obviously, like folks in our ecosystem, we've gota discord group of about 100 150 books. So we get a lot of feedback, real lifein real time. We are building in public, if you will, and the rest of time, uh,kind of switching a lot between different projects. So it's It'sdefinitely a lot less structured than a monthly sales quota quarterly numbersto hit. But it's exciting nonetheless.

And what we're working towards is thatI think the most exciting part just the no a point at which we can startdriving. Error is very near in the future, so kind of sharpening the axefor that, and I can say more on that later. But just getting ready to beable to take it to market is the other thing that I'm working on. Yeah, andthat's as a as a salesperson at heart. That's got to be an exciting thingcoming up. So you're you've spent so much time in, um, you know, researchingthese early stage companies, talking to founders, researching them, selling tothem, you know, previously, and and working with them in a number ofdifferent capacities for the people out there that are listening. And they'resaying, Hey, I want to take my shot 2021. I want to get into an early earlystage company. Like, what are some of the things that you would look for?Let's say I'm you know, I'm looking for to run the, you know, the revenue VP ofsales or C r o. Or or kind of be the first person driving that, like, whatare some of the indicators that you would look at for a company that nofolks should take into consideration? Yeah, that's a good question, I think.Probably for me. Honestly, I would like if I was going to go be a VP sales orspecifically something in sales at a very, very early stage company. I wantto have a really good sense of sort of already product market fit what thatlooks like. It's a little different for us because we're like I said, sort ofpre finished product and definitely pre revenue, but and in that case, sort ofrare to have discrete sales and marketing hires at that point. But ifif you're looking at, you know, maybe a serious theater series, a companythat's, you know, ready to make their first higher, I would index veryheavily on the founding team. What is their ability to run the company itself?Because you're going to have a constant battle of, you know, your goal is todrive revenue kind of at all costs at the end of the day. That's why you liveor die, right? And I think from a cheeky perspective, lot of investorsand even founders were kind of joked that, you know, like you hire yourfirst VP of sales. So you have time to recruit your second one kind of thing,and it's kind of a short a short life cycle. So knowing that I'd also reallywant to know what the sort of the the financials look like, both my cash andequity perspective and, uh, think that sales people in general tend to getoffered a far higher cash mix than inequity mix, which I think is wrong,actually, because you look at, like, Why is that? Well, so there's a couple.I have a couple different thoughts about it. There was 11 really goodarticle that I always come back to large, Daugaard wrote while he was atAndresen for Love Ventures. And it was this idea of like the coin operatedidiot the like, you know, put a coin in the salesperson, they'll go do theirdemos and close biz in really only value that they derived that can bederived from sales is revenue, and that is expendable and that sales people aresort of mercenaries. But I think that's really untrue. Majority of the salespeople I've worked with and hired and developed and been mentored by areincredible business generalists to understand big problems, and they cansynthesize them very well, and they end up becoming great advocates andconsultants, a variety of different ways. So I thinkthere's like a little bit of a bias there and that maybe that like peopledon't think that salespeople will be along for the ride. But if you havesales people that have equity and they...

...are owners, they are fully in right,like there's no one more or there's no one more competitive in the companythan your sales team. If they feel like the product they're selling, every saleis going to increase the value of their equity, those people are gonna bemachines. They're gonna be monsters, right? So I think that's likeovercoming some of these biases around sales and marketing and go to marketside of the House versus State product orange. And I think in general there'sa huge gap of information and knowledge and education around. What should yoube asking? How should you be structuring your own offer letter?What's fair? What's market rate? You know, revenue collected does a greatjob of tracking cash compensation. O. T s like they have tons of resources forthat. There aren't a ton of resources around equity and, you know,benchmarking. So one more more education there and then the otherthing is that even if you have equity, it doesn't mean that you can sell itright, like part of What we're trying to solve for is today. You don't haveto take a company public or get acquired to have a liquidity event. Thecompany can structure it themselves. Or you could have a secondary sale happenwhere an independent buyer and seller matchmaking on their own or thecompanies buying back the stock. There's lots of different sort of rulesaround that, too, which is all kind of what we're trying to solve. So a quickshout out commercial for Sakura and one of the products that we're releasingpretty soon is actually a database of companies tracking when how you can actually sell yourstock in the secondary market, as opposed to waiting for an M and A ornip Well, because that makes I've alwayskind of wondered why it's so hush hush right about the equity that you have,and it's so hard to do anything with. It's hard to even understand whenyou're, you know, early, into a company to like what and when you're young,what that even means, Like what those shares means And, you know, it's sodifferent from you know, the way I grew up, which was my dad's and finance andtaught me about the stock market. And so that's pretty easy. Like I go, I cango by, you know, and chairs of, you know, Salesforce or Amazon or orwhomever it may be. But when you get them from a company, it's it's so theytry to make it so confusing. And it's also, to my knowledge, it doesn't seemto be an easy way or even a legal way question mark. To be able to sell thatto sell those shares if you leave or if you're at the company to folks that maywant to get into it or for folks to get into, you know, angel investing whenthey have money, they are ready to, you know, take a risk like that but may nothave the connections to founders that other people that have a lot moreexperience than they do have. So I just find that whole world to be really kindof confusing. Yeah, I'd say there's really, like three big structuralissues when it comes to secondary cells and like being able to buy and sell,you know, growth stage type equity. There's probably a lot of people thatwould be listening to us that work at no series C series D and beyond typecompanies where, like you're not public yet. You don't have any idea when yourcompany is going public and you possibly have some life events like,you know, childcare by home elder care where taking some liquidity or evenjust diversifying to your point. Making some angel investments is impossible,and I think number one is stock option. Exercise is still really opaque complex,and it's a huge directional bet that...

...you have to make on your company.You're already relying on your company for your income. Primarily. Most peopleare so for you to go and exercise your stock while you're still working there,which is actually very uncommon. Most people wait until they leave. It's apain in the butt to do. And if you look at some of the tax treatment and thingslike 83 B elections, that would allow you to have sort of start the clock forlong term capital gains and to minimize paying some the taxes that you get onincentive stock options because the taxes that you pay are calculated basedoff of the price that when you got them and when you exercise. And if you're ata company for six or seven years, Agos take card as an example, from 300million to close to seven billion in evaluation and you leave, you could beon the hook for a huge tax bill before you've even taken a scent of liquidity.So that's like number one. More companies should allow for earlyexercise. They don't. There's a reason that theydon't. Number two is that if you do try to sell the stock, there's ways thatthe companies can either block it or make it hard, one of which is right offirst refusal to be able to, you know, intervene. Say you want to sell me someof your gong stock and out. So, like, yeah, I have the cash, I'm ready to buyit. Well, the company actually gets a last look on that and can say, Actually,no, we'd rather buy it. Here's your money, Tom or one of our investors. That could be a potentially prettyuncomfortable conversation to have with a current or former employer. The otherthing. The last thing into the three sort of structural problems is stocktransfer restrictions. So, like, say, for example, you have the stock, it'svested, you've already paid for it and you want to go and sell it. Instead ofright of first refusal, the company can actually put in their bylaws theircorporate documents, saying, Actually, there's no sales, a lot of the stock.So in that case, you know you're snookered, you're stuck there, there'syou're basically stuck with this liquid stock until acquisition or an I P o ordirect listings back, what have you, But short of all that, if we can getthrough some of the structural issues and I think one is education on pieces,education and advocacy and one of things I love about revenue collectiveis if you look at the the Bill of Rights for RC members like one of thoseis liquidity, and I would argue that there ought to be sort of an employeebill of rights prevention back companies in that if liquidity is apossibility, it should be allowed, because why would you give away thisstock that is meant to appreciate in value and create wealth and thenhamstring the person you gave it to and say, Well, actually, you can never sellit until we go. Probably get acquired. There's lots of arguments that you canmake around like Yes, you know, there's a scarcity premium for the stock. Youmake it harder to get, so the value goes up. I don't really buy that. Ithink it's you asked me, I think a lot of the stuff around equity that makesit more difficult. It's Bs, and it's actually meant to keep people fromactually exercising their stock or owning it or ever selling itintentionally. So you mentioned you know, some of the Bill of Rights herefor revenue collective and and and everything there. And you mentionedearlier that you met Shamus through the group. I'd love to. Just as you know,we have our eyes kinda on the clock and everything to also talk a little bitjust for a minute about how you leverage revenue collected. That'ssomething that I'm asking all the guests because I'm curious. Everyone'sgot different workflows, right? Everyone has all these differentresponsibilities, but I'm curious how you leverage it. Uh, maybe you leverageit Carter differently than you're...

...leveraging it. Now it's soccer, butagain, whether it's a slack, whether it's the events, one on one connections.Never. It might be just the social capital that's on your linked in pagebecause of it. What? How do you use it? And how can others follow in some ofthe ways that you're using it? There is. That's a great question. There's somany resources there. I could probably talk for another half hour about this,but the so one. There's an air table database of all the members based offgeography, location, interest. If you want a mentor, you can reach out. You can. You cancold outreach to people or they have the lunch roulette. All the variousprograms that are C H Q. Is putting on two pair. You know, folks like you meanthe Associates program with people in the full membership program. The eventsin person were awesome. We hosted one at Carta prior to the world, sort ofbecoming what it is now. I haven't done to too many of the stand ups, and Iknow that there's at least our chapter is like a Friday stand up. But onething I got involved with during doing the it seemed like the layoff wavereally hit pretty hard in our community was on the bench program. So I got anytime anyone loses their job. R C has been super, super helpful andresponsive with some of these people in terms of like placing them. And so wehave to do a couple of webinars on good resume writing and networking duringcovid. And hopefully some of that stuff was helpful. But yeah, I, personallylike, had a very pragmatic view of when I joined up. If I get one good thingout of this, it's worth the money. I think the connection to Shamus and Joshand how that's impacted my career today is like it's worth its weight in gold.Gladly recommend any, you know, sales operator. They should be a part of thegroup. They want to sort of propel their career further. Yeah, that'samazing. I mean, it definitely paid off, right? Even just that, those twoconnections in themselves. So I think that's I think that's awesome. And theResources section is probably something that I've underutilized. It's a goodreminder for me, too. Check back and I remember when I first when I was like,Oh my God, look at all these documents but have kind of maybe taking a stepback from that, But it's a good reminder. So as as we're kind ofwrapping up here, I'm curious like first, any last words that you have forthe revenue leaders that are out here that are listening on anything elsethat may be on your mind that we didn't get to then obviously, I want to findhave folks get a chance to connect with you whether that's on linked in, checkout the cap table, check out what you're doing and learn more from youabout anything that we're talking about here. Yeah, thank you so much, Tom, forhaving me, I think, to the R C leaders and and folks at high growth companiesthink about how you incentivize sales people and think about possiblythinking more towards equity is really good carrot to incentivize go to marketfolks and really thinking about how transformation that can be at theexecutive level. And then how that goes down to the IC role. And to that end,like reach out to me directly on LinkedIn on Twitter. If you are anexecutive that happens to be in a position where, you know, you've got alarge, concentrated position of stock, and you just want someone to talk toabout it or even help, you know, try to structure something like, we don't dothat directly. But I've been working with all these people in the space. I'mhappy to make direct referrals to anybody in the group. And then again,just thank you. I think the idea that you have this really, really thoughtfuland helpful group of people and I haven't met any jerks yet, either. It'sfor people like me that sort of care a...

...lot about their careers andprofessional development. I can't think of a better, better resource. So thankyou. And totally I I agree. It's crazy how many people I've talked to and yourpoint have not met one jerk or asshole from revenue collected. So it's beengreat product Leeson. Man, I appreciate you coming on the show, especially on a,uh, national holiday to join me in chat about all this. Thanks a lot. All right,everybody. Thanks for listening. That episode was brought to you by six cents,powered by Ai and pick an analytic six cents helps you unite your entirerevenue team with a shared set of data to achieve predictable revenue growth.Again, I'm Tom Limo. Feel free to add me on LinkedIn many years gone. I dothis podcast every Monday for the revenue collected, and I'm obsessedwith, uh, sales and helping salespeople and sales teams succeed. If you foundany value here, the one asks that we ask for you is just to head over theApple apple podcast and do a five star review for the show and helps us togrow it. Get better guests, provide better content for you. Otherwise,thank you for tuning in. Have a great week. Let's get after them say something mhm.

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