The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

RC Extra: An Awkward Conversation

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

RC Extra: An Awkward Conversation

Taket Toe tetoeverybody at Sam Jacobs,welcomed to the revenue collective potcast. Today, we've got another bonusepisode for you. We've got the conversation that myself Brandon Myers de VontelouisJackson and Robert Daniel had we called it an awkward conversation and reallywhat it was was a conversation about race in corporate America about being aperson of color being a black person navigating that environment and alsowhat what we as allies about what we can do to support our fellow citizensare fellow humans and people of Color as they pursue equality, an equalrepresentation, particularly at the boardroom level, and and how to thinkabout it. Given everything that's going on in the country in the United Statesright now, so that was a live stream with interaction from the audience.What we did is we we took it and we're going to take the audio and give it toyou here is podcast. We hope you enjoy it. There's going to be many more. Thisseries an awkward conversation with another one coming up in September, andI feu have ideas about what we can do in terms of programming or in terms ofeducation or content. Shoot me a note, SALMOT REVEOCLECTIV COM, but withoutfurther DU. Let's listen to this. We called it an awkward conversation. It'sthe first of what we hope will be a really interesting series. So, let'slisten all right. Everybody welcome it's! It'sTwelve PM EASTERN! It's nine am Pacific Time, Byve PM British Standard Time,and there are other times that it is and other places round the world today.What we're going to be doing is it's an experiment of Stourt we're going to behaving what we call an awkward conversation and the purpose of thisconversation brought you by Reven, eclective and revencect above color isto try and begin a dialogue between people of different backgrounds,different experiences, different skin colors. We acknowledge that there'sfour men on this panel and that that's not going to happen again also. We dowant to represent different genders and diffren and people that identify indifferent ways in the future. This is how we're getting started and there's areason line, fe're getting started this way. I will talk about why, but thepoint of this conversation is to try and bridge some gaps and to try andcreate some safe spaces where we can have conversations that oftentimes werenervous to have with our coworkers or in public or with really anyone,possibly besides our partners, our spouses or our closest friends and thecontrext and the rules of this conversation, or that we're going toacknowledge that everybody on this call- and hopefully everybody in the chat-comes to this conversation with an open heart if you're coming at it from alack of education. This is an opportunity to have a conversation, a Dto be educated or to hear different perspectives and we're going to reservejudgment about anybody's. You know, motivation, we're going a assume.Everybody's motivation is good and the purpose of it is to find common groundwith our fellow human beings so that that's part of it. That's not the onlything that revenue collective and that all of us are going to be doing endthat we think we should be doing hand we're going to be talking about that.This dialogu is just one part of I think. A movement cat is hopefullygaining a little bit of steam in light of all of the RAC. Recent events tofind harmony to find justice into frind equality all over the world, butespecially in the United States of America. So this is just one part ofwhat we're doing there's a lot of other things that need to happen. Werecognize an acknowledge and we really appreciate everybody joining us, so I'mgoing to introduce some of the folks on the call right now, I'm also going tobe moderating, and if you have co comments or questions again, you knowwhat we're hoping for is just S is, is comments and questions in the rightspirit of compassion and common ground, une dropem into the chatbox, and we canwe can try to acknowledge them. We do have a sort of supaking poients. Wewe've got some topics that we're going to be covering, but if you have ideasor thoughts and you want to drop them into the CHAP till free, I've gotgrandand Myers, which he from Nostervadara on the call, an incrediblerevenue leader and somebody. That's a really inspirational figure withinrevenue, Collective Tan, R, co C we've got debonte, mouis Jackson, O thefounder of revenue, collective of color and we've got Robert Daniel, who is theouthe leader of R RCOC allies community, and that's the community focused onpeople that are not people of color or don't identify that way. But ont issupport and help CSC and make sure that these initiatives that were talkingabout game traction and actually have concrete and practical implications. Sowith that- and my name is Sam Jacobs- I'm the founder Revenue Corrective andI'm on here, just because it I something I care about very deeply, butI probably won't be on every every conversation going forward and againthis is the beginning. We hope that this is the beginning of a series. Wedon't think that this is the end I'll be all, and we recognize that nobody onthis calls. The official spokesperson for any particular race, gendernationality, et Cetera, were just four...

...people having the conversation. Werethat I'll hand it over to devontic play Sam, so I'm really coue to be heresamontiined. I am one of the Leers in R COC, which is revenue collective ofcolor. An the main focus for revene collectiive cover is, for ome foremost,to create a safe space for black and duziness people of Color withinrevenuecollective and then also to promote careers in revenue. Two people fromunderrepresented backgrounds, many of the folks that are on this call are inyou know, either direct revenueosa sellers or come supporting thatfunction by you, know marketing, business development and so on, and weall know how fruitful these curews can be the earning potential and thelearning potential, and we want to make sure that people from all backgroundsof access and interest in those careers- I don't know Brannon or Robert. If youwanted to kind of say something for a moment or if not, we can hop right intoyou know some of the questions that we were thinking about. Let's start with,let's start with those questions go so it so. The first question is: Have Yourviews about race in America change since the murder of George Floyd? If so,how yeah I can jump in, and so I think, there's kind of a a double answer tothat. So one I think my personal views around race in America haven'tnecessarily changed. I think the thing that has changed for me an a verypositive way is, you know really recognizing that at this moment in timemany more people understand and recognize that there is an issue whenit comes to race in America and so Dva that you and I have had manyconversations around that topic in general, but I am quite encouraged by Iguess. The awareness of of the differences in how people fromdifferent backgrounds may be treated, whether that's in their daily lifes, Oor in corporate America, and so I think you know from my own personal views,backgrounds and ways that I kindof came up in the world. I don't know that mydpersonal reflections around rashave changed, but I'm also very encouragedby seeing just a broadening of of you know, kind of the discrepancies thatthat we see on a day to day basis in the realization of that from from many parts of society that maybethey didn't recognize that before brobber. How about you what's changedfor you sure, so I I would put myself in the category of someone where I cansay that my I recognize that my views did change aevent and I think thete, someone who'swhite. I can look back and say it's not that I didn't have an awareness intalking with devontane brandon. You know this is n that that isn't anywherenear the first incident, but after the murder of George Floyd and afterpeople's reaction, just really trying to stay, take a step back and thinkabout. Okay. What assumptions do I have that are incorrect and being able tosay a whole population feels that way? What what am I not thinking about Um asa white male and to be able to look at myself and say? Ok, how could I think about thisdifferently? How could I better educate myself? I think, there's a lot ofpeople, whether it's companies or individuals like myself, that aretrying to take this as a moment to say I need to learn more about this and Ithink the term ally for me really resonates. I need to become an ally to this, sothat'Si I'll start there saying that, that's you know some of maybe myrecognition post the event an you know. I wish I had previously, but I can say:Hey it's better to have now, and hopefully you know I can change grand.I got a question part again. Like part of the point ofthis talk is to I to try and Arr some things that maybe I get lost intranslation and social media. You know or Lincdon, where we've seen peoplekind of come out with some striding posts and say you know, hear's how theworld is or her's how, I think about it and then a lot of controversialcomments and things like that. But I'm I'm GIS speak O e out of some Group ofpeople that their initial reaction was when they saw windows being shatteredwhen they saw not just protests but violence, and they said why. How doesthis advance the cause of gracial equality or racial dest? Then, let'snot start wi breaking windows or breaking or smashing storefronts. Why Ithat you know 'cause, I I I learned a lot from having co even just from youknow our prop calls for this. Why that the right way to think about it or whyis that a Suater or what? What is that missing, TAT pespective, because I dothink it's missing quite a lot. What what's your perspective on that yeah?So I think, there's maybe multiple takes on on this question, but it's aimportant one. You know one view that I had you know really kind of early onwas you know, we're confleting a multitude of problems and people areenraged for a number of reasons, and...

...you know we had a situation with GeorgeFloy and yes, that you know a people that had't called action, but at thesame time you know when you look at what was happening in Mayn June. Youknow there was a huge economic situation that we were dealing W H aswell and were n. This prolonged period of a separation from other human beingsand there's just a lot going on in the world, and you certainly see a lot ofunhappy people as well, and so sometimes a spark may ignite a bigger fire thanmaybe what the source was originally intended to, and I think we in societyand certainly in the media, we conflated a lot of isses and justpointed to one problem as that's the route cause and that an my opinion justwasn't the case and you know certainly got some oof. My own proof of evidence,I participated in the number of protests here in the bay area of bothin San Francisco and in Oakland and in every case they were all incrediblypeaceful and to the extent that the organizers repeatedly said that, ifyou're here to do damage or destruction to the neighborhoods, we're going toget you out of here, because that's not what we're here for we're here to drawattention to something. That's incredibly important to us, and so Ifound that to be very frustrating when you watch the news and you K, owstarting t to see the terminology of the riots associated with black lifesmatter or ORT floy and and that just wasn't the case based on my ownexperience of actually being out there in the communities of participating inthese converesations. And so I think there was a discrepancy, and I thinkpeople just wanted to point to you know an issue that was in front of them andsay: here's the roote cause, and I I do a Ou in some cases was, wasoffended by that at Demontano. You had really interesting yocommentary round.No as well so on want to open that question up to you also yeah. I mean, I think you know when you say this idea of likeit started with Um kind of like looting or riding or snashing windows. I don'tthink that was the beginning. That was actually the kind of the culmination ofa lot of other activities and efforts that were attempted right. I think ifwe can allo look back to you know. Folks were peacefully protesting, folkswere kneeling and nothing was happening. Folks were marching and nothing washappening. So I think it's like the position that we found ourselves sayingwhen, when you know the the riots were happening really was the summer. Wetried all these other things and nothing actually happened, and you knowwe. We briefly touched on this. It's it's interesting because until thosethings happened, no one really wanted to have these conversations. So I don'tthink that it's the individual items that may have been taken or specificwindows that were smashed and so on. I think it's the culmination of look lookat the extent of how things had to go for people to take this problemseriously and say: okay, what's going on Rigt, it was like that that wake upcall you know and I think, to go back to jis the first question in terms ofviews in America and how it's changed. You know, since George Floyd, Iactually do feel hopeful because it seems like we've, been able to sustainthese efforts in these conversations. Usually something happens, it getspicked up by the media. There may be a march or two you may have some peoplego on. You know certain new channels and kin o steak, their different piecesand then that's it and then no one talks about it anymore. So the factthat we're still focused on you know, having these conversations and tryingto push the conversation forward to me is is a sign. That's really hopefulyeah. I agree I mean just to speak for myself. I mean that's what it made abig difference for me to think about Colin Capernika to think about so manydifferent people peacefully protesting and seeing nothing happen and andactually reading a little bit of research that says that that sometimesviolent movements actually have an effect, the most change and the mostand the quickest amount of time, at least in this country, and that maybethinking about the violence itself is not is not the point per se. But it'sjust a reflection to your point, Davante about a level of latent rage.You know and just fructration that exists within the bright community. Youknow that m. That sometimes me is a as a Wakeey am just not I'm not aware ofyou know, and I'm not aware of what it feels like too, like I said when wetalked on the podcast about I'm just not aware of what it feels like to gointo a store, and he just feel like a a ato door be pulled over for no reasonfor driving the speedlimant or whatever it may be. So I think maybe it has.Maybe these things have shocke people and made them more awake to what'sactually happening. What do you all think about there's a secondaryconversation and it's never clear to me what the point of it is, but I thinkthe point of it is too undermine undermine certain people's passion insome way, but the point of it is this is all inauthentic. You know that theguys like Sam or Robert or whomever or...

...out there onlinkn, talking aboutwhatever making a donation of black lives matter or they're t they're,trying to see important, but they don't really mean it and that that's you know's, that's ineffective and I'm looking for sincere allies and sinceresupporters, and I don't believe that the people that are all changing thelogo of their company are sincere. What you will you all think about that? I um I mean, I think, every every time youstart something new, you kind of feel like a poser rigt. It could be tryingto get into golf or maybe R, trying to work out more trying to become a bettercook right like in the beginning. It always feels like. I don't belong herewhat's going on, so I think it's unfair to paint people as being inauthenticwhen they're trying to start becoming an ally. I also think that separatefrom companies changing logos, I think when you do post that screen Chil ontoiter that says hey. I made this O nation to a blackwlase matter and so on.Like I, I think, there's two ways you can look at it and some people like togo down the virtue, signaling rout. I go the opposite. I think you're showingand telling your associates the people who look up to you, admire you andfollow you, I'm standing for something and when you think about how dangerousit is to just sit on the sidelines right and that's kind of how we'veGoten to the point in this country, where we are right now by people sayingwell, this isn't really affecting me and I don't want to necessarily changemy position. So I'm not going to go out of my way to do anything different rit.I would much rather someone say hey. I actually made a donation to Blackwie'smatter and maybe you ee, to say what the amount was, or I maybe wo ontneedto go that route, but to say: Hey Li e, I acly made this tonation an. I wantthe people who respect me and who ere my peers to to know that I did thisbecause maybe that can spar anditional conversations. Maybe someone calls youand says: Hey it's Sam, like I thou you did that like I wouldn't do that why'd,you do it right and then you could have your own awual conversation and beginto move the needle but yeah, I think Yo'Ryou're, not opposyo, Yo're, notbeing in authentic. You have to start somewhere and it's going to feeluncomfortable. It's going to be hard, but most things especially for us. Youknow driving ne leaders and oof O individuals. We know the hard thingsusually have the biggest reward on the other side. I think this is a really complex issueand there's not a silver bullet here right and it does require people to bebulneral and that's not always accepted with elbinarms. But I think it's important that people try and put themselves out there,and so I would encourage everyone to do whatever they feel is right as long asit's a positive move in the right direction, regardless of how peoplereact or whether or not people are accepting of it, because it's importantto be a first mover on this issue and it's also important to keep themomentum going. I think the thing that I'm recognizing and certainly concernedabout is that there are a lot of things that are are not necessarily happening.You know there was a a moment of frustration. People reacted and actedout and there was a lot of attention, but now, as we're getting into lateJuly and there's a lot of other things happening right now, the corona virus,you know rearing its head. This is now becoming a muted topic, and that reallyreally concerns me, and so you know from my perspective. Yes Aam, I thinkit's it's fair to call out hey, you know. Maybe some people have gone outthere and then they'e, you know, maybe gotten pushed back or Ha's not beenaccepted. The way they've reacted to the situation, t doesn't matter rightif this is something that moves you to take in action. Please continue to takethose actions because it's important that those actions keep happening, andso I would encourage anyone out there that would would feel any anxs tourround. You know reposting or participating or donating to not havethose emotions, because it's very important to continue to have attentionto the things that are happening now, so this doesn't become anothersituation, whereit's just an expression of outrage, and then the world getsback to living and so that I think that's my reaction to that. Thatquestionof conversation, I think that's a great point. You know. If I look atmyself, you know there's one concrete step that I've done and and one that Ilook forward to working with Sam and the rest of Revenue Collectev on. Sothe one concrete step that I did was on three of our team calls after m GeorgeFloyd's murder. I talked about race and that those were actually the firstcalls. You know I've been a salesleer since two thousand and six that I'veever talked about race on a sales call and doing that you know wasuncomfortable. But to me it was important for my team to hear my viewsand I don't think I would have done that Um five years ago or previously, and thensecond is you know, working with revenue, collective and revenue,collective of color, on a hiring pledge Um to me you know, revenue collectiverepresents two thousand plus growth stage, companies and companies of allshapes and sizes. But you know these companies can be much more nimble andcan really, with their collective actions, make a big difference in arelatively short amount of time, the...

...amount of people of color that theyhire and specifically the amount of black people that they hire. And so Ithink you know that could be something if, if Sam and the leadership ofRevenue Colective and the four of us can get more and more companies behindthan that to me, like the cumatime effect could be massive, I think doVante in one of our earlier conversations you mentioned how someonesaid they were going to do these twenty different things, and it's like Wai,like let's try to do a few things that matter and are sustained and can make adifference over time. So that's an example of one thing I did and then I'mI'm really excited to work with revenue. Collective on you know types of pledgesof companies. I think Sam. We might be showing some data of just you know onthe surveys. We did how low relatively hiring people of color is today atrevenue collective, which to Minologis the first time data like this has beencollected for company's. You know like like the ones that emembers well be fon, TA, booe, Rober, B, sortgood. What I was going to say. I I think the intentionality that youpointed out it has to be there. You know there's there's bracism as a wholein this country that is going to take a very long time to make progress on, andI think we all see that marathon and we're all committed to it. But I Iappreciate that you pointed out like we work at you, know, pandemic aside andthere's a lot going on. You know from economic perspective, but we work atthese companies that scale so quickly right near at fifty employees inJanuary and my November, you've doubled in sizes tripled an size. So I thinkthat you can be intentional and very quickly change the the make up of yourteam, which you know from a diversity of you know. We see all the studiesthat say more diverse teams perform well and so on, but also you'll becomemore welcoming rih. I think the more your team reflects what the countrylooks like and the more diversified your team is, and people are goingtostart to want inbound and be a part of that team. So I think there is likethis flyweel that can start you meed to have this intentionality in thebeginning and over time. You'll just have a place where people fromdifferent backgrounds enjoy coming to work and want to be a reference and soon, but you have to be intentionome, beginning yea, agree, and actually Iwould say that that intindealy has to be persistent and consistent if it'sintentional and then you W on and nothing really changes. You know wewere talking about this a little bit yesterday, but if you kind of Ye lookat the amazing thing that happened. You know for Twenty fifteen to to now forNah the women's movement in Corporate America. We can dedid hi study lastyear and what they saw was thereas, actually a thirty four percent increaseof women in leadership positions within Corporate America and that required apersistent contentional, not just a a once know, kind of movement. And nowthis is kind of the you now movement, Ajor Itelis keep usgoing unless let's Haveomen temind this thing and let's make sure it continuesto be a topic of discussion in board rooms and where we're hiring and whowere hiring- and I think it's important- it's a very important conversation andigains time for people to take this thing seriously. Fran and Youre stain.I think that that you made a point of when we were talking before, which I,which I just Reso. You know resinated with me, which was this idea that forsome reason it it's, it was more. It felt more appropriate or more possibleto say we're going to hire. You know werd than these two positions that areopen on executive team and we're going to make sure that one out of e two ofthem is a woman, and I I'm not aware that we've had that same deliberateopenness about black people, wor people, O Color, say: We've got an executiveposition, open we're going to make sure that we hire a personal power for thatrole. E. Maybe that's part of what we need to start to the point ofintentionality and just saying: Hey, N th. The comment that I made, whichcould you know just to be vulnerable into ICKNOWLEDGE, that we're not onferdirector uncertainly, not Um, no rede, CIT TDAT. We have these h cityformations and we have chapterheads and we have a rule that we're not going tohave a new chapterhead without a female counterpart and for some reason I celtcompletely comfortable, saying that- and I haven't been saying, but I willgoing forward. There needs to be a personl color on the water fitteam ofevery city, where we start in the chapter, and that's just you know thatresonated with me like, let's be as intentional about Um, you know aboutdiversity in all directions, not just gendered Duversity Y, and I do want tobe clear, like there's thre's no way Shu perform ow. Do I believe, B T. Ithink any of you guys believe that there's Paretin the work force when itcomes to women in professional seats. But I think the really important thingis that there was and continues to be, that intentionality to change it andit's something. That's very unapologetic and people are verycomfortable having that conversation, but when it comes to people of Color yblack professionals in the workforce that same conversation as far as I've been involved and hasnever, you know really been something...

...that people are are comfortable havingthat conversation with Eah Um, so we had a few other questions thatwere there and I'm come curious in terms of we're talking aboutorganizations, and I um an individual contributor on this call, but you'veall lead or of fled teams. Can you talk about? You know how corporate Americacan impact social justice right. So in this particular moment, what cancompanies decide to do right so there's on one degree, each of you individuallycan sit down and say I want to make these decisions for my team and youkind of have in your head. But what can be said in the boardroom, with the restof the seasweet and h executive team to say, Hey, we need to get this cup ofcommitment going so taking it from something that you're individuallytrying to do as a leader may be your segment of the business and opening andsay no, the company can actually come forth and we can make a difference. Well, I think H, Devante, you know wewere talking about it before there's this phrase I saw in teternot eitherhigher or wire, which is the point at you know, either higher people of Colordirectly and make that a commitment or fund and invest in black and people othcolor achfrenners, so that those companies can get off the ground. Ithink that's one part of what needs to happen is just actual tangiblecommitments. You know demante you were talking before off line about how italso doesn't just need to be Porqot, ei o I it doesn't just meen to be likejunior level hires, but that there's people a color at all levels ofseniority that can come in to an organization. I think one thing we justneed to make to happen is we need to make hiring commitments and then Ithink, there's probably just like an ongoing educational gap and somehowdestigmatizing the conversation itself, which is part of what we're trying todo so that issues can sturt us more easily. I guess now, that's sort of myperspective. I don't know t what you all think yeah g only thing I'd ad is you know. Onething I was very excited to see from recent eventswas that it seemed like, as more companies put out public statements insupport of groups like black, like matter or social justice than thatpressures other companies to do the same, and I don't remember seeing thatwhether it was trained on Martin, Eric Garner or any other times that this hascome up. I don't remember seeing where it was such a push of corporate Americadoing the same thing at the same time of talking about that and to me likethat really matter, so I totally agree like as an individual manager. What canI do directly? I can hire more people of polor. I can- and I know we'll getto this- I can you know- be more intentional about making sure that I'minterviewing more black people or people of color, but then I thinksecondarily like having more companies, do this and make statements about it.That all adds up where you have more and more CEOS that talk about this andand that to me, really filters down to the decisions that that all theirmanagers and DPS make yeah. I think there's this kind of scape goating.It's a piperime problem. We don't have enough candidates of color to actuallymove the needle. What I' say to that is, if you look at the trajectory orincrease of of black Americans with a college education, that number isincreasing at a much larger rate than the actual populations of blackAmericans n inprofessional work force, and so I would say that that's notnecessarily true based on data right, if, if you're seeing you know far morepercentage of black aafrican Americans with a professional college degree orat least ha bachelor level, annot seeing the numbers change at the SAmagnitude, then that major we're just not getting it to see at the tableAndas, I think a big problem that needs to change yeah. I also think that I'm not a fan of Cina Goin languag withSansvolmr really earlier. I hate the idea that people think that diversy ninclusion efforts means lowering the bar for the quality of talent thatyou're going to hire like 's. I think that's ridiculous! You know if, if you,if you have a job descriction just in general, that requires you know threeyears of experience in a coting language. That is, you know, eighteenmonths old like that needs to be changed right, but in terms of oflooking for talent you're, not lowering the bar, when you were hiring apersonal color, you don't need to lower the bar when you decide to put theseinitiatives together, and I think that's that's a something I feelstrongly about b you, I think, that's a conversation that happens behind closeddoors, that no one really, you know, discusses and Insm to go back to yourpoint of hiring ord wiring. I don't know how to feel about that,because I feel like for some organizations. They have enough. Youknow capital where, like they can wire and that's it's why I did it T. I gaveyou money and someone else can figure out how to fix it right, instead offiguring out like I'm going to do that part, but I'm also going to make acommitment right and it seems, like you know, robirts Brouhtit up a few timeswe cgoing back to the commitments. So...

I'm excited to talk about. You knowthat initiative from from revenue collective, but I don't think it shouldbe higher or Wy or I think it needs to be higher and wire fair enough poke dvontta. You were mentioning you know.What's your perspective, we were talking about it yesterday. How do you feel if, if the companies doinstitute disinitiative and you and there's this this sort of like doubleedged there's this weird feeling of like am I being singled out? Are theyare they offer me this job because m a black person, or did I actually qualifyfor it if they specifically say hey we're trying to hire more diversity,we're trying to hire more people of Color and De Vante? We wull love foryou to Apflyt to this job, and you were mentioning that you had mixed emotionsabout that too, because you I mean, there's no, there's an easyanswer to it, because on the one hand, we're saying companies need to makethese hiring commitments and, on the other hand, we're saying, but I alsodon't want to feel like they're, just they're lowering their standards in anyway, they're, not lowering their standards. They're. Just making ahiring commitment, how do you feel about that yeah? I mean you're.Definitely not lowing your standards. If you hire me or if you hire another,you know person coller goes the Cook plud there, but I I do think thatthere's this scenariois going to arise where you are a personal, caller andyou're offered the role, and you know the company is trying to bring on morepeople of Color, and I think that is you know it's a scenario that Ipersonally haven't had to face yet, but I don't know what I would do right andI think the big piece of that is me openly saying to you all Anto everyonelistening. I don't know a lot of the things that we're dealing with it'svery vague and ambiguous, and we don't know you know, there's the there's ththe kind of follow thruit. So now you get brought on board and everyone knowsthe company made a statement in May that they waren't to hire more peopleof Color, and then you get hired in June. Everyone knows that, like youwere hired as one of the people who are supposed to move the needal ondiversity. Are you now a token within the company? Are you now the face ofall the African Americans or the people colar in the company? Are you expectedto do more than your job right, which I don't know if you were going to get tothis Brendan, but a lot of the time we see individual contributors or people thatdon't have a tremendous amount of power right now, in these past three or fourmonths, they're the ones asking to look at a press release. The word goes out:they're, the ones that are being asked like hey. We want to say this, but canyou make sure this is going to be okay? So there is a lot that comes with youknow. Knowing a company is trying to bring on and Ad Diversity in the? Ubeing that person that I wish, I could speak to from an experience, perers aperspective. These are me just making assumptions, so maybe that someone willbring on to the call but Y, I don't. I don't really know what you're supposedto do when when you find yourself in that particular moment yeah I meanthere's, there's kind of a few reactions that I have to thisconversation. You know one. I do think there's a hugeepotism s issue in the startup community. It's really hard to breakinto those circles and when you talk about high growth companies, many timesrihtit's kind of a band of pirates that move from ship to ship and it's reallyhard to get one to that pilote crew. If you're, not you know of that Hilt, andso I think, there's you know maybe something to be said around hey the LMIis a founder. You know the next time I start to think about who are those fiveor ten people that I want to Yo o bring into my garage. Maybe I need to havesome reflection to say: Hey, I wuld have a different type of company thisnext time around and io be proactive around. You know who was a part of thatfounding m organization, and I think those types of conversations need tohappen. Certainly with this community revenue. Collective, but I do think,there's a big issue both here in Silicon Valley, I'm in certainly NewYork as New York is yo o growing very rapidly in terms of turning out verysuccessful startups in companies, and those are the the roles that reallymoved the needle in terms of an economic situation right. Those are thepeople that actually get higher share of equity and those are the people thatactually have you know higher return, investment from spending their time andenergy growing and building a company, and so I'd say you know next time thatanone on this call is looking to start to build that founding team. You knowmake sure that team looks like America and not just the same folks, that youkind of y went went back to the same well de Vonse Y. U- and I have had somereally personal conversations over the last month and and I think youereferring to one conversation that you and I had all round a situation where had a a recruiter within our firm setting mea tremendous amount of resumes, and I frankly they all looked the same. So Igot access to our liin recruiter account. I O tremendous amount ofpeople of Color Y, a with that you know submitted applications for organization,for whatever reason didn't make it through. I don't believe that personwas racist whatsoever, but I do believe unconscious. BYIS does play a huge roleand who goes from EA that recruiter list to now who's kind of in my Um, her view of people that I want toactually have a phone call with, and so...

I do think t it just takes. You knowfor people to recognize that Hey, I got ten resumes and they all look the same.Why don't I go back in and then see what else is going on there if there'sOway that I can actually be a part of the solution as opposed to justaccepting. Whatever might you know, fall into my nboxes as far as y knowpotential candidates for Aral, and to that point I hope there's a few things.You know just with revenue of Cot to color that that we could do like for me,like one simple step to this would be next time. My team has an open positionposted in revenue, collective of color first and try to get someamazingtenames try to get to know more great revenue, leaders yourself and deVante, so that Um you from the start like you're, notjust getting referrals from your employees, that you know thosereferrals are going to tend to be more white. So I think there's some you know,hopefully the more that revenue, collective brows and the more thatrevenue collective of color grows, the more that it's just that much easier toto have a great pipeline first and I think, to mounttain some of ourconversations. You've talked about like companies shouldn't just solvediversity by hiring more SDR's or more entry level talent. You know there istalented account executives, talented revenue leaders and those people exist,and I think, as leaders of organizations you, you just need to bemore intentional of seeking that out and it's not like you need to do twentyextra steps. There's some pretty scalable things like posting andrevenue, collective of Polor- that I think really benefit yeah and I mean Ithink, we're all uniquely suited doing wor sales people. We know how to huntand convince right like we know the tools t at are out there and ways to go.Look for people, it's just! You know kind of setting aside the time to do soand Burnin when you mentioned earlier, they had like the pirate crue goingfrom ship to ship. You know, I think, about this notion of you can't reallystart something new with a diverse group of people. If you don't knowanyone right, if you don't interact with, you, know people of of color on aregular basis outside of work, and I think that was one of the things youknow we briefly talked about yesterday and, like I feel strongly about t islike sobbing for racism, but also kind of solving for the injustices in theworkplace. That can't be nine to five, so you can't, you know from not am tofive PM s like listen. I want to hire more people of Color. I want to makethis team more devers and then five PM comes. You know, like all right back tomy life, my world, where I do not interact with people of color. You know-and I I don't know how to solve for that. But I do think that's somethingfor you know everyone. That's you know listening and on. The call to thinkabout is like. Are you actually trying to just do this because you think it'sthe right thing to do within the workplace, or are you able to plug itinto the bigger picture of America and figure out? How can you you know,interact with more people so that when your company does something awesome inIPOs and you have this huge influx capital and you want to start somethingnew now you know the people that you can go. You know start that nextventure with that's why I teer point to Dante Y. that's why such a loaded andkind of for some people s it's a dangerous topic, because you want tomake sure because of thi fact that you don't. Idon't want you to feel like we're friends, because I need to check off abox that I have ex number of black friends in my life, but I also don'twant that. I and- and I don't want you to feel like you're, the representativeor spokesperson for all black men in America, but I also do probably havequestions that I want to ask you about your experience so that I can findcommon ground without exhausting you with the way of being the spokespersonright and you can in you just being you and I think, that's you know we weretalking about like dstigmatizing the conversation and just finding some waywhere it's not er, not also, or at least I'm not. You know terrified Rterrifies, not the right word, but just nervous about et, maybe store that I don't dosomething that might be interpreted in the wrong way en all also not doing things that areoffensive. You know it's sort of like thi the whole time we're working at thenews. I wanted to make sure that I always wanted to make sure that youfelt comfortable and that you felt like there was a carer path for you and thatyou felt, but I also didn't want to make you feel like you are probablyalready felt like Ey you're for monly black man on the team. You know like this very w n. We were we've beentalking about it, but I know my gold. I hope I think what weall want is we all want. We all want race to be left wit, an issue. You knowwe aren't ten years from now. We just want comp. I would talk about wassaying this yesterday. You know, I think England, as a country, theUnited Kingdom is a country, has a lot of problems with race. But when you goto London specifically, it just feels very different to see the differentcultslike ther're, just a lot more diversity on the street, and it's noteven commented on it doesn't seem to be...

...as big a deal as it is in the UnitedStates, and I want our country to be like that at some point. But it feelslike to get to that point. We need to be able to talk about it a little bitmore openly. I don't you know which is which is challenging, because there'salways a fear that you're Goingta you're, going to step on the wrong land,mine and and all of a sudden you've entered into an area where Ho saidsomething ignorant or uneducated and and now now you're in you know, no'RinN, in the bad thing yeah I mean that's the whole point in this conversationright. The form UST ARE NOT DEANIE experts we're not going to go start aconsultancy that help you you know, do Excellinza projects right. The point iswe're having a conversation that can be awkward and we're trying to figure outhow to navigate it. And you know we decided the four of us if we want toset an example for other people to have these conversations, we want to createworlds where you know we have m. You know over a hundred people in the revenueyou know collected ally, community, and then you know another subsete of folksthat are in the reven nelective callr community and like okay, great now, wehave these sake spaces and we have these people who have raised their handand said they want to advocate not e ther, bring them together right and andhave more of these conversations and breakout groups and so on. So I thinklike that is the reason why we're here is because we want to set the exampleof people going out of their way to to be uncomfortable to be vulnerable,because that's how you grow, you know. So I appreciate you saying that, but Ithink this in itself is an example of US trying to figure out what tha nextstep is. I don't know if Youor or ou Renin a robbert would have anythingthere. No Tyou, you KNEI IT Goodwell SA. So a good! A good point is Um. I knowwe all took some time to to prepare, but how did you feel coming into thisconversation? Sam? I think you kind of alluded to it. So I don't know if youwant to give you know Robert or Brandin a chance to to speak up. What were yourthoughts and how did you you know prepare for this conversation on? I was really happy to see you know Sam andthe Revenue Collective Youo take on this issue and this you now certainlynot the only thing that's happening within revenue collective to help youow kind of advance, this conversation, and so I think it's an important one tohave K. Ow, really encouraged by the amount of attention to support thiscommunities is, is giving this issue and a thing that yeah in Samon. I had aconversation. You know really quickly after the George Floyd in murderincident just around the power of the community within revenue, collective,and, I think, there's you know- certainly a lot of thops that are inhiring positions that are probably on this call that can make a difference,and so it's it's great to bring awareness. It's awesome, thou people,you know having in ear in or listening and hearing hathing from a differentperspective and now it's time to to kind of put things in action, but itdoes start with having some conversations like this to to make suren the moment of his building and not to Kindo Ding down. As I lived two earlierin the conversation yeah I mean, the only thing ill had is,I think you know just like Sam gave the example of you know chapterheads and a change that he'sgoing to make after you know, recognizing that you know I can thinkof other examples. For me where, to your point, Brandon, you know fiveyears back when lots of companies are like okay, we need more femaleexecutives and I remember being at a company- and we had, I think, tenpeople that were on the website and only one of those ten was a woman andwere like. Should we take our pictures down, you know what do we do? Do we puther at the top like, but all tougout that conversation we didn't acknowledgethe fact that all ten of us were white and that there was no person of color,and so I think you know that awareness and as leaders of revenue, gelectivesaying, okay, you know I can do better for me to say. If I look back at byfourteen years as a sales leader, I don't think I defie myself as an ally,but that doesn't mean I can change and and become one meant to say. You know Icould do better so and to say that you know we have whatever it is a hundredand ten people listening, live and this'll be on a bodcast, and I can saythat to everyone, and hopefully you know lots more people can recognize.Okay, like I can do small things that all of that you know, meally adds up tosomething, hopefully very big, and I I wal just underscore and thwe've gotabout fifteen minutes. Maybe and the there have been a lot of questions andh. We should probably you know, look to look to address them, but you know forme, it comes back to m, to your point, Robert and to everybody's point. Yougot to put down the fear a little bit and you got to put down the fear ofsomebody on Lindon telling you that you're opposer or that you're fage, forthat it's performative for that you lookthoug signaling, you gotta starvsomewhere, you got to do something. Yes, it's it's often not enough, but it'soffen. At least it's a start and I think Um, that's just part of what we all have todo is just axcept that everybody's trying to do prove trying to changetrying to get better, as opposed to say.

Well, you know they made that post. Idon't. I don't really think that they believe it. You know or that's notenough. Changing the logo of of your company or or changing the backgroundof your profil patron titter is not enough. Agreed T T that it's not enoughagreet, but we also don't want to shame people for taking initial steps forthem. That might be difficult. I don't know if youall agree, butthat's my perspective. I think I think the concept real, quick Solfbox S, thisword virtue signaling, is a very dangerous perniship word and and it'sand it's probably more toxic than than than the actual actions that it choosesto ascribe or describe, because all people are doing when they're virtuesignaling is they're trying to puit what they think is a positive messageout into the world and then they're being undermined by people wherethey're not living up to some arbitrary standard, and I just think we all gotto like check ourselves a little bit that if people are trying and making aneffort, then that's there's a lot of people that aren't trying and aren'tmaking an effort. So we can't shame the people that are trying and are makingan effort or have changed their minds or are taking initial steps. If we wewant to encourage that, that's what we want. So that's just my perspective.IAGREE Youe got TA start somewhere. I know OOne happened to questions. I didwant to discover one last thing very brief at M it was. It was a question Ilike which was you know? What do you think you can personally? Do I thinkwe've we've talked a lot about what our companies can do as a whole, what wecan do as individuals working for organizations, but I think, a reallygood good place before you open. The questions is: What can you know? Wepersonally do to impact this movement and how would you measure your success?Yeah some personally, I'm dedicating a lot more time than I wantTa car about for Mentorship ydemate. We had a conversation within the R COCcommunity a few weeks back, and there was just you know: a Voider, a vacuumof mentorship. You people color, get into to positions of leadership withinthese organizations. There often time is than arm to kind of reach back andstart to pull people up, and so for me, Parsonally, I'm definitely dedicatedhen on a car about a lot more time to you know, figure out ways to o share mymy brain with folks to to telp Tem, think about their career n and how dothey advance themselves an so from a personal perspective, I think that'ssomething that's important to me and incertain othing can make a differenceon a personal level I'll go next for me personally, I I think it's reallyworking with Sam and Devonde. U and Brandon on on the pledge. You know Ithink at Ey level we've talked about you know. If an organization can pledgeto have a twenty five percent increase in their the hiring of people of Colorand specifically black people. I think if you get a hundred companies to dothat, the cumulative effect of that is hundreds of hires that that might nothave been made, because companies are more intentional about what they'redoing t. that's one thing I I ooe to working with with everyone on in thecoming a few months. For me I mean it's it's some of the things that we'redoing right. I want to make sure this isn't the only time we have thisconversation. I want to make sure that the next time we have the next in the series as women that areparticipating, because I I think that a black woman's experience is still evendifferent than a black man's experience, and I want to make sure that I we'rehearing from all perspectives. I also want I'm really inspired by. U Nowbrandon story from when he was growing up in Michigan was all about. He wentto the guidance counsil in high school and they said you know you join thearmy. You can become cop youcome, social worker. You know and tha thearmy recruiters down the hall so happy to go like where don't we go e. paying me money to you know hereshe's, paying me money to sign you up, and I really want to build mentralshort programs that reachd people earlier in their lives, not just whenthey're coming out of UNDERGRAD, but when they're coming out of high schoolort in high school, and I want to use rebin Colectiv to do that and make thepartner with bimentor and to brother, big Jist Organization of America andreally Tryang Wi spread the word that, like Hey, there are more possibilitiesthan maybe people are presenting to. There are great careers in technologysales. You don't have to be a developer, none of us! No! No! I don't know howAphowo Code and yet cannot a tremendous amount of value to be in place o that'ssomething I'm particularly passionate about, besides just continuing to create content, but also make sure thatthe content that we have that's not about race features, diverse saters onit that when you know it's a conversation, Abyut a company'smarketing, it's not always just a white man that different people fromdifferent perspectives are always fetured. Even when we're not talkingbout race, especially when we're not talking ABOT VI yeah, so our company'sa part of the. U S, Travel Association, which Y O comprise of the majority ofthe major travel companies within the...

United States, so mariate United Disney.All of these big brandhs participate as well. Some financial servicesindustries like American, express Oth, JK Morgan that you know really work within the travel industry toprovide commerce opportunities, and so they were really getting involved inthe diversity. An inclusion conversation, particularly as relatedto to black people participating in that economy, not nextridy, but thefollowing. ' E I've been invited to actually sit down with the board ofdirectors, which is o hundred and sixty people. You know sea level of Abob andyou know were going to put it together, a game plant on how we saw for thiswithin travel industry. So you know quite excited about that and hopefullyI'll be able to share some great things with the revenue collective communitytaround those opportunities we have once that conversation happens, and I thinkthat you k ow things like that and having those types of conversations canmake a a difference at a really large scale. So you know very excited aboutthat opportunity and I do think the travel industry just giving how robustthat is. You know, certainly you know when we start to rebo out OCOVID Ould Y,open up a tremendous amount of economic opportunities for people of ColorAwesome Sam. Were there any questions that were Um sent in that you wanted to asked the group Yeah Wel, you knowagain. It's sort of relating to Othis is an important one: Howcan an HRdepartment, facto racithe vinversity into ther higin pocition. Withoutviolating title. Seven nd hi, that's something to talked about. Was it Roghoops lie? Robert? Did you Hask nospecific data there and sost sort oflike guids for how e how I can think about this sure. So, at a high level,you know companies can and are encouraged to get more diversity intheir application. So if you think of diversity conferences like agracehopper, if you think of building relationships with H BC, US, if youthink of doing whatever you can- is an organization to get more diversecandidates to apply for your role. That is a hundred percent legal. That is ahundred percent encouraged once the application is made as an employeryou're supposed to be blind to someone's gender or ethnicity, but interms of getting more candidates to apply as well as I think I saw itsomewhere in the chap really collecting data in your ATS system andunderstanding. Okay, if, let's say a third of my applications are people ofColor, but only ten percent of my hires or people of color than what'shappening in my interview process. For that to be the case and understandingwhy that is nd and fixing that, but I think if his company is works to get more amazing candidates intheir funnel and works to look at the data, then then, hopefully the magiccan happen for more companies and who make more diverse hires. I also sawsomething to chat about into pretension. I think the more diverse hirers you'regoing to make and the more you train your company about diversity andinclusion than it's going to be a lot easier to retain employees. There'sthere's a really first of all, just FYI. We can only have four video sources, soI wasn't able to do a Spreeng Chair, but I did coast in a presentation whichis um the result of a survey that we ran the week of June tenth that justtalks about some that has some data in it that I think Ol ry. What we want tochange. If you look at slide eleven. What percent of your team? Yourimmediate team, consists of people of color, you included, and we see thattwenty three percent it was zero and fifty five percent. It was you know,under twenty five percent, and so I think one of the things we can do justto make a differences. Let's run this in three months and six months in intwelve months, se these numbers change, and hopefully especially this zeropercent, number change and Scot you know you sed through the size of thechallengetle corporations to apathy. I think that's why that's why thesehihring commitments are so important because we're not asking to change theentire world. We're saying like let's make an impact on the specificpercentage, lascorn I'll say is call me from Amsterdam says: I spoke withanother member who was taking issues ith unpaid interships, when she wascoming out at college. She felt like she was at a disadvantage because herlife was not allowing her to get the step forward because he did not ov theresources topon. This good changing policy and unpaid interships to be awayfor companies to hire and wire, and I just want to sort of like plus onehundred that unpaid interships are really just a filtering mechanism forpeople that come from money and that's why? If you want to break into fashionto take it on praid inturship, if you want to work at Expitenla, you take anungreat intership, and all that means is that you have money from some otherplace. So I also think we should take a stand against unpaid interships. Ifyou're going to have people do and stuff for you, you should pay them todo it. In my opinion, yeah I wanted to just hopp in there with like a personalstory. So, obviously Y, U Know I've been a hiring manager, and I know it'sit's great when you cand see someone studying abroad or where someone wentto school and the two quick things I'll say is in terms of something verysimple. Like Udy Aroad, I was pretty much like heartbroke in my sophomoreyear. I got accepted into this program...

...to go and stay in Spain for two monthsand I literally created a a Gofund me to tryto get people to raise money to send me to Spain. I didn't raise enough money,so I couldn't go and like it was. You know I tried to put a good spin on itand you know faceit wasn't as crazy back then. So I was like trying to youknow: get cousins and aunts and uncles and friends and family to t like how eme do that. But, like you know it's it's kind of embarrassing looking back,but I also think that if someone else's you know resume is very much identicalto mine, but they were able to go. Do that unpaid internship or they wereable to go. You know, do that study abroad like now they're standing outand it's solely because of you know economic differences and the otherthing I'd say is when you start thinking about schools that people wentto you rigt, like my I was you know, my my mom got pregnant with me her senioryear of high school. I was born that summer after she graduated what my dadoriginally was supposed to go and run track in Arizona right an you know. Heended up going to Seatin Hall in same local and I did as well, but his entirelife was changed. You know he still ended up being able t o a college wbut.He couldn't Gottogo. As far I mean have like a better. You know school on hisresume because of you know some some things you know affected him growing up,so I think it's just like. I think the conversation would go onfor a very long time, but there ar so many different pieces of of what endsup on someone's resume that we just don't know and don't know how to ask.There is something called a chronological interview which, like you,ask everyone why d you make this decision? Why D to do that, but likewhat? If someone doesn't want to tell you, I actually chose to go to rockersover X Y Z school because, like I had to take care of my little sister orsomething like that, so you know again conversations that can go deeperanother day, but just at that point t really resonated with me Lop folks.It's about twelve. Fifty eight PM really appreciate everybody that joinedthis session is immediately available for, were you watching by just the samelink, you can just the same link works as a DPR and there's going to be we'regoing to do more of these and we're going to feature different perspectivesand different speakers. Not Just H, not not just US Brandon. If folks want toget in touch with you, let's just go round and just drop some contactinformation in case anybody wants to reach out to anybody on this callBranda whet. What's a good email, ajet for Yo folks on o contact Ye Brandonbra and do n Dmyers Eiy, Ers,aadara com or winked in slash in backslash Myersbe Awsome Devta, your Yu go rstmess, youonly use that one or which one do you want to use. I'm no try ing to remember what myLintn is for momentarily, but you can reac me when it comes to U R COC atDvante D Bante at revenue, collective dotcom, and if you want to connect withme or learn about how slack can help your businesses, collaborate and Nosallis Hu, more effective fe, a hingtee Leke in com sush in slash Devontago, shucks, Otrobber, great h, my email isr Daniel at way up Ar Daila way up, and you coul find me on Linton RobertDandel love to connect. I S awesome and I'm saying a revenue, clective com,we're going to be doing more of these. We recognize that diversity doesn'tjust mean skin color, but it means gender teens. Frankly, age, there's allkinds of different ways that we want to bring different perspectives to bearwithin revenquestion. But thank you all for joining us and you'll hear from usfor the next event, and thanks to my hollow panalist, everybody that was the awkwardconversation with myself brand and Myers de Vonteger with Jackson andRobert Daniel whove got many more coming in terms of this series,including force featuring women. Since it's hard to talk about diversity andinclusion, if you're not featuring people, that are what are identifyingas women or even Nonbinorin Peopleso we're going to make sure that theparticipants in future conversations reflect gender equality, not justracial equality, but we hope you enjoyed it. We've got a lot of more aspecial bonus, hodcast episodes coming up fron the revend collected podcastfeaturing some of the great content in some of the great events that werehosting that you may have missed. So I just subscribe, give us five stars onItunes if you can and be on the lookout for for more great sessions. Thank somuch for listening.

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