The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 32: Clean Slate: Prevent & Conquer Burnout in 2021 feat Prem Bhatia

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Clean Slate: Prevent & Conquer Burnout in 2021 feat Prem Bhatia

Hello and welcome to the revenue collective podcast. My name is Casey, like Gordon and I'm your host. Today I have the chance to sit down with Prem Bhatia and talk about clean slate. Prevent and conquer burnout in 2021. Everyone comes in January saying New Year, New me. But for many of us we're still facing so many of the same challenges that plague 2020 remote workforce, Keeping teams incentivized and engaged and burnout Israel were still full time parents caretakers. We're still dealing with a pandemic. And so despite it being ah switched to a new calendar year burn out is still a very real thing. And so prime and I are going to talk about his company, Cool Leaf, which is all about creating those amazing employees experiences and how you can prevent and conquer it within your own organization. Before I get started, I would love to give a call out to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Quota Path Commission tracking software built by salespeople for sales people. If you wake up in a cold sweat, dreading the commission's process quota path is for you. Quote a path provides commission transparency for everyone involved while motivating reps to sell more. Plus, it's so easy toe on board, it'll be running before your next commission cycle. Ditch the spreadsheets and formulas. Simplify commission calculation at quota path dot com. Hello and welcome to the revenue collective podcast of My Name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host today. I have the chance to sit down with Prem Bhatia, the co founder of Cool Leaf. For those of you who don't know Cooley of works with scaling organizations and top brands to create memorable experiences for employees and customers. With that, I think it's pretty cool that we get to sit down with not just what somebody I'm sure that sells and markets the business. But is the actual co founder so praying? Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Casey. Appreciate it. All right. I gave a really lovely bio about what your company does love. Love that. But I find there's nothing better than hearing it directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So tell me, what is cool Leaf? Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thanks again for having me. Um, So what we do in a nutshell is we focus in on creating amazing, extraordinary experiences, both from the standpoint of employee experience as well as customer experience. Those two are really intertwined. But how we do that is primarily through framework that we look at that looks at three steps. One is, Are you listening to the stakeholders that you're interested in developing great experience for the second is once you've listened to them, are you engaging them in the actions and behaviors that matter? So we have a number of tactics, including recognition and rewards group experiences, performance incentives...

...that we put into play into organizations that we work with. And then the third step is really Are you measuring what the success is not just listening, but also the measurement of those interventions and those tactics that you're taking to engage people. So you hear a lot about, like, employee experience, hear a lot about employee engagement, you know, it's kind of the quote unquote space that we live in. Um, we're starting to doom or on customer experience work as well, but that's kind of where we play. So I have a couple of questions. So this is the topic of today that you and I are digging into, as I mentioned in the intro is around this idea of burnout. Andi, I think that I have. It's been a topic for a while, but 2020 has made it. I mean, it's seemingly every headline that you're looking at. Both zoom fatigue, employees, burnout, you know, self help, mental, you know, mental health. All of that is, is top front center. And I always think it's interesting that we talk about, like this New Year. New me. We're listening to this in January, so it's It's, you know, you come into the New Year and all your problems Air fixed. You come in with all this energy. January is gonna look a little different this year for us. We're still mostly remote. We're still dealing with a pandemic we're dealing with the first time of what is vaccination look like? We're still dealing with parents who are at home with their Children while also working, and the idea that employee experience, like it looked different when we were in the office. Talk to me about how you all are looking at going into this next year because it's not just the burnout that happened at the end of 2020. 0, take the holidays and recharge. It's like, No, we're still walking into a really challenging work environment. Yeah, for sure. I find it helpful. Like to always, like, frame back to, like, the kind of B s test. Like, you know what's going on in your life personally, right? And, you know, for me, it's like, Yeah, everything is not okay. You know, like Esso. Everything is not okay. Especially if you're a parent. It's not okay, right? Um I think even those of us that you know may not be parents. It's not necessarily a great time, right? I think you know, people have adjusted. I speak to people all the time that, you know, when you kind of break down the walls a little bit like yeah, you know, I'm drinking a lot more on, like, you know, doing things that I shouldn't be, you know, like it zero on. And so, uh, it's it's become tougher managers also right, because it's hard to kind of get that, you know, in person interaction that you might have had where you get the water cooler and you can't really replicate that, really, Virtually a lot of times. So what? We're trying to help our customers with this, Really? You know this idea that you know, one of the best ways to kind of tackle that is by thinking about, you know, employee engagement, the employee experience all it's all it's all about, ultimately is of the human at the end of the day, right? So, like when we think about customer experience or human experience, I don't think about it that way. I think about like human experience, right? Like there's no difference between me as a customer means an employee. I've got, you know, human...

...needs. Or, you know, am I being listened to Am I being might have different outcomes that you want from those different groups? But the needs are the same. It just might be your outcome lens that I want you to transact with me versus I want you to work for me or whatever the the ask is. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, ultimately a my being listened to a my being seen in my visible right. Is that something that I feel like my managers prioritizing? So, you know, we provide those platforms. Those tools, the platform, the tools to actually help with those types of problems for our customers. And, yeah, we're hearing it a lot more. You know, we're hearing a lot more that leaders aren't sure. There's a staff that just came out pretty recently. Like around half of managers aren't sure that they're going to feel comfortable that over the long term they're gonna be able to manage the remote teams. And remote teams now are just not there here to stay. It's not like it's not like this just goes away and, you know, middle of next year when the world quote unquote resumes exactly right. So it zone issue that's going to stay with us. And, you know, you may have some part of your work for somebody some part of team in in house in the on the on the office. But you may have 70% 80% that are remote, right? So how to balance that? How to make people feel like they're all included in that on day? How to make sure that they feel again listen to visible how you're bringing a team together? You know, there's a lot of tools out there today, but they're just that. Their tools, they're not actual strategically designed program. Programmatic kind of approaches. And that's where we saw the gap in the market is It's not enough to just have, you know, we have a slack channel for that. Okay, well, that's great. But you know that that may not necessarily be programmatic. And it's, um, in its efforts, and you may not actually be using data to measure and integrates some of your approaches around engagement and experience the way you need Thio. Totally. So one thing I'm thinking about as we were just talking about those remote teams. Well, actually, two questions. So first of all, I find any good Founder usually has a terrible experience or really good experience that that spawned them to create a business. So I'm curious for you. Was it a really shitty experience that may want to say Like, let me let me tackle this. Yeah, Yeah, that's a great That's a great question. Um, yeah, it was so I knew what a really good culture look like. But the reason I knew what a really good culture look like is because I went to a really terrible culture, right? And it sometimes takes, You know, figuring that out and understanding what you had was a really special thing. You know, you could see, you know, you could probably figure it out. But, you know, there there was a big move that I made down to Atlanta at that time to an organization that I think had a lot of issues with company culture. And my co founder ended up being someone that I found through that experience on DSO. We kind of shared that. We saw the writing on the wall that this, you know, this is being talked to its being essentially paid lip service to buy a lot of organizational leaders. Um, and a lot of leaders. Team leaders now...

...can't afford to just pay lip service to this type of thing because I think people see through that, right? So, you know, we know what the stats look like. We know that recognition is important. We know that feeling visible is important. And, yes, to answer your question, I mean, I think having felt invisible to some extent, having felt you know what it feels like to know what the other side of, you know, being appreciated. Having a great team that's there for you, then going to that Teoh, you know, essentially becoming invisible. Ah, lot of people now unfortunately, are feeling that way because they are remote, right, and you might have been in a really bad culture. You might have been a really crappy culture before, even in person, and felt like that. But now it's becoming even more of a Norman. We see that manifesting through stats that you see with mental health and wellness. You know, one out of three adults is experiencing some level of like, you know, burnout or depression. Right now, you know, we're seeing parents at the breaking point. So you know this is this is out there right now. It's real for people. How do you all define burnout? Do you have a specific term or or categorization of defining that you know we don't like? It's not like organizationally. We look at it any differently, I think, than you know what sort of standard definition might be or burn. I think it's more of, you know, if you're not hearing from your team, if you're feeling like things were just kind of pushing along, but you haven't taken additional steps to engage them further. You know your risk is there, right and burnout. Essentially one of the issues, I think with burnout now is that I talked to a friend of mine that are sort of like in corporate real estate and that, like, you know, it's obviously a tough time for a lot of these folks. But the sort of transfer cost of like going from one employer to another right now is very nominal in a way, because really what you're doing is like I got a different Gmail account, you know, I got a different corporate email. It's like it's not much different now, So that's, you know, that's also something that I think a lot of folks don't keep in mind. Is that like, you know, Yes, we're in a very terrible market for a lot of people. I think now there are a lot of pain on the other side and tech. We're seeing that the you know, there is quite a bit of growth in certain industries and sectors now, and there's also quite a bit of talents being poached because the transfer costs are so low right now, in a way, right? It's not like and people are already hurting right. If the culture is not staining, there's less of that that connection. There's less of that. Maybe loyalty that's being dwindled being chipped away at. And I think you know the appeal becomes much, much more attractive to be able to go to another organization. So I'm curious. Over 2020 as companies have gone more remote, I'm sure you had remote customers to start, but more remote today. Have the asks of what your plot product and platform can dio Has that evolved? Yeah, So we we've had to listen to our customers like every tech company has to. And I think you know, one of the big new capabilities that that we've released...

...recently was the listening capability. But the way that we look at listening because because it's become such a big priority for people to like, you know, how are folks feeling? You know, how can I do this in a pulsing way that's tied quickly into, you know, mobile app platform People can actually quickly respond into, but one of the other things that we've heard us, you know, and and our, our thesis on this is sort of, like evolved over time, but, you know, really tow us. Listening isn't just pulsing people, and it's also looking at their behavior on platforms that they're interacting with on a daily basis. So that force it might be outreach dot io might be sales loft, whatever it might be, you know, might be zendesk. We've developed, you know, really tight integrations with a lot of these platforms, which a lot of managers and team leaders to do. Positive reinforcement of behaviors and positive recognition and incentives around those behaviors and leading indicators of success and metrics rather than really kind of big brother ish looking over the shoulder, trying to see, you know, there are acts out there now that essentially get into really big privacy issues around like Are they wasting time? You know, like, how do I know they're not like that was my question is, how do you? I mean, as an employee, I could be there could be a fine line between Wow, I'm getting rewards and incentives in. Oh, shit. Were you watching me while I would You know, it's like that could be really awkward and I think could have a You have to walk that fine line. So, yeah, and that's our philosophy is that everything should be about positive reinforcement of those indicators that matter now. When you think about success, everyone wants to get monthly recurring revenue. Everyone wants to get top line growth, profitability, those types of big metrics, right? The smaller indicators towards that success, whether its sales teams, whether it's things like turnaround time on tickets, whether it's things like see sat, you know, whether those air the indicators that we help our customers with, you know, from a sales standpoint, obviously there's a ton that you could look out there. We do deep integrations with those platforms to enable our customers to say, Hey, you know, our team scattered everywhere, you know, we want the ability to provide them small incentives and small rewards along the way to keep them incentive and motivated and say, Yeah, we saw you do that like we saw you there, you know, and good for you. That's not We're seeing you there and were watching you. It's yeah, awesome. We're watching, and we think it's great that you did that. It's not that I need to know where you are every minute of the day. What browser history looks like. That's not the wind, right? And I think that's where I think a lot of management and leadership is gonna get this wrong. But the people that get this right are gonna be the ones that look at and say That's not the way to do this. You have to have, obviously, like, some element of trust. But you have to be able to do quick reinforcement. Quick public recognition, quick incentives tied into those leading indicators of success to keep your team motivated throughout this, you know, long haul that we're gonna be in now and possibly even for impermanence. Now, at this point, yeah, completely. I'm something that, as you were talking, came to mind. I hear from, you know, there's conversations or...

...articles being written around employee productivity, and I'm sure some leaders at the top somewhere saying, Well, we just need to get new employees or we need to you know, they they're not recognizing it's the environment by which were in there, instead saying, How do I know people are being productive or all of those questions and what I'm hearing is that a tool like this? Or, you know, how you all are tackling the problem of burnout? My If I were to play out your argument, it's probably invest in your employees in order to get more from them. However, you may have some leaders that are saying, Yeah, I can't afford to invest anymore like we're tapped out. We you know, they just gotta show up and deliver. How did you you know, I'm putting on my sales hat now. I'm just curious, like, how do you into educating overcome in that environment? Because I'm sure there's a lot of our listeners that maybe say, like, my company just doesn't have anything else to invest. How do you equip them to tackle this? You know, the very honest answer here is that we call bullshit on some of it, to be honest, um, you know, the there's a CEO of a company called Gravity Payments. Dan Rice, who a lot of people, you know, becoming more and more aware of. One of the interesting things that he did was he took a $70,000 salary and he brought everybody in the organization up to $70,000 salary, no matter where they were in terms of seniority level. And a lot of people really like we're super skeptical there. Like, you know, What the hell is this guy doing? Ends up that they had a banner year, they were able to keep a lot of their customers. They were able to grow top line more aggressively than they had in the past. We think that's a sign of things to come right now. We think that a lot of organizations now are being led by folks that talk out of both sides of their mouth, unfortunately, but are being called out on it. We think that part of this re balancing, if you will, is gonna be saying, You know, look, leadership needs to talk the talk here. You can't expect the best out of your people when you say these things. And yet your 405 100 X toe one. In terms of your compensation to the average employee that doesn't work anymore. It's just not gonna work. And you need to find ways to create mawr incentives for people. You need to re balance that you need to look at ways in which you could make it more fair for employees. Otherwise, you're in for a very tough ride, you know, very tough, right? I think, you know, especially going into 2021. We're very informed generation of now. We have four generations in the workplace. Okay, I'm gen X right. But like Gen. Y gen Z now, like I mean the Millennials and Gen Z, I think we work, you know, a lot of our team, you know, millennials and like, you know, we work with Gen. Zia's well, but like, right now, the information is out there, you know, And people are gonna find out one way or another where you're talking out of both sides, your mouth or whether you're really about this. And so at the end of the day, it's like, all right, don't don't try to bullshit people number one Number two. It's you know, when you see people doing good things, you should not have to be told that as...

...a leader, you should be publicly recognizing If you are the type of leader that still doesn't get that this is really important and has a dramatic impact on engagement. You're probably not going to be a great person for us to work with, right if you're the type of leader that does invest in these, and I'll give you an example. We've worked with a school called Woodward Academy, which is based in Atlanta. It's the largest, the largest private school in the continental U. S. 700. Faculty and staff. Their president already understood this. They've been a top. They've been the number one workplace for number two, and he's like, You know, it's It's for the last 8, 10 years, something like that They're not, You know, they are a type of customer that we love, right? We love customers that, you know, realize that this is super important. They can't be us their way around this anymore. So it's an accelerant to an already existing culture. You're helping put gas on the fire, but they already had the flames. That's exactly right. I mean, like, if employees experience is something that you think is heavily intertwined with customer experience, which it is, and you want top line growth, you know, those two are so intertwined that you know any leader worth their salt understands that now and says, you know, And if they don't, you know, I think they're gonna have their probably already running into tough times. But it's gonna get even tougher for those folks. Um, they, you know, hey, we can continue on status quo on DSO for like, it's a matter of saying, How can you apply technology to make this a more data driven effort around employee experience? How can you now apply better methodologies around customer experiences? Well, how can you not just pulse survey? How can you not just ask, but also then take action? Right? So that's where our modality of like you know, listen, action measure really comes in. Yeah. Two questions I have talking about burnout. I have tool fatigue. It's like I both as a manager and an employee. If you introduce one more thing, it's like, Gosh, I you know, I'm pulling up different tabs. I'm trying to integrate it all, and I think that especially in a remote world where you're having a self learner and self teach, a lot of those things integrate into your behaviors. Do you all run into that? Do you observe that? Are you know any any thoughts there? Yeah, I was talking to someone on our team about this. Actually, Pretty recently, there's a book called Deep Work by a guy named Cal Newport. If you know the base camp, guys like Jason Freed and th they talk a lot about this idea of uninterrupted blocks of time, that air critical. One of the things that I've done even for myself and I encourage people on our team to do is like I don't I don't really want you to go from a Knauer of work to like a meeting to another hour of work and then, potentially, like two meetings and then another hour like that is not the way you 99% of people's days. That's right. That's not the way you get stuff done. Now I understand, saying that they're not. Everybody has the luxury of setting that schedule, but they do have...

...the ability to talk to their managers if they are in a situation like that, and they should take the opportunity to say this block of time right here is uninterrupted time. It's deep work time. I put everything on like, you know, do not disturb. We've had organizations. Where we, you know, we sometimes run challenges around these types of things through our platform. One of the most popular challenges that we do is an unplugged challenge. Basically, it means, like unplug for 30 minutes a day and literally like it's like no electron ICS nothing. And that's been super powerful for a lot of people. It's been transformative for a lot of people. The idea of especially in functions like sales, you know, in functions like in any function quite honestly, toe have a block of uninterrupted time. Every day of at least 2 to 3 hours is critical. To get anything done is in fact, a competitive advantage. If your competitors air not doing that and their teams air running like you know, crazy, you will have the ability to think deeper about certain issues and be able to really tackle the important things, as opposed to thinking that you're getting work done and actually, in fact, just running from one thing to another, right, completely so one of the biggest topics that has come up in in the revenue collective community and we have plenty of people that listen, but that is a large percentage of our listener base. And where we get a lot of intel is exactly what you said earlier around managers not feeling equipped like they, you know, they carry the weight of God. My employees air are drained. I'm drained. I have pressure from the top. I would love to hear if you can share a really tangible example of how you your team, where companies you work with have tackled that and where cool if place in that in that story, because I'm hearing this, I'm like, yes, I'm ready to drink the Kool Aid, but I'm like, how does it work? So I want, like, a really tangible example. Yeah, so, you know, from our standpoint, like there are certain manager conversations that we don't necessarily like, we're not necessarily helping our customers with that. We can take him down a path of saying where we help is being able to ensure that you are being observed. You're being recognized publicly for the accomplishments that you have. Um, there is a huge tie into recognition. Public recognition, in fact, like there's something like almost 80% of employees today, like feel like they're not recognized enough for those achievements and, you know, it's like now it's gone to a point where recognition and, you know, sort of real time recognition. Public recognition has become even more paramount during in remote, you know, in a in a remote environment. So, really, where we help our customers is on the idea that managers to become more effective team leaders to become more effective, need to take a certain amount of time during the week typically like a Friday afternoon to think about the three or four different people that they may want to recognize publicly. Maybe it's even more than that on their team to be able to call that out and to make it a habit, potentially even to do that on a daily basis, right? Ideally, that's...

...happening all the time. Now we see, you know, we've seen millions upon millions of recognitions happening through our platform, right, that stuff that that happens, it's publicly disseminated into the organization so people can understand what people are up to, and it has a dramatic impact on the level of engagement inside of an organization we've had, you know, we've had people tell us like I never realized that you know, people actually saw me here for what I was contributing, right? That's a massive, massive change. Now you know, in regards to like the actual mechanics of saying, Hey, do you have enough time to kind of get work done? Yeah, those air manager level conversations where we might put programming into place, like related to things like, you know, taking a break and unplugging right and helping them manage those types of programs. But we're not not necessarily getting to super involved in terms of like, you know, the manager toe staff level kind of conversations that need to happen where we come in is really programmatically trying to say what the behaviors that matter, Let's listen in. Let's create programs to help our customers achieve those levels of, you know, positive behavior reinforcement. And let's help them increase the metrics that they're ultimately concerned with. Like, you know, reduction on employee attrition, improvement in top line productivity, improvement in operational metrics through things like small incentives, challenges record public recognition of those behaviors inside the organization. I find that I have a lot of empathy for ah lot of people during this pandemic, But manager specifically because I in a lot of companies, especially those that are earlier stage or high growth Usually you're a player coach, your two things. You're not just overseeing people. And I find that in this environment, the people aspect is so much more demanding. And as a manager or a team lead, there may need to be conversations upward of hay in an office environment. I can do both, but in a remote environment, I have to be so much more attune because you're gonna have me doing both. But then we're gonna lose this employee or we're gonna lose this team morale. And so for any of you listening, I would say, you know, really be reflective of that as we go into, especially potentially a permanent, remote working scenario. But certainly over the first six months of 2021 I you know, I would imagine that we're gonna be in this world. And so maybe it's something to pilot. Maybe it's something to say. Can managers do a little bit less? Can we take some of the additional work off their plate and really focus on helping each of those employees fries to their highest potential making sure that we create that space, that margin so that we can actually retain a team. Not That's right. Yeah. Look, I mean, I think there's any organization you're gonna have issues where it's like, Yeah, we hit like a crazy patch where they're like everyone is going burning oil. It's like, you know, like that zombie just not gonna be able to help, right? There's gonna be moments like that organization. But you have to be starting to question whether it's like, 350 days a year. I mean, that's not you know, Then you're you probably got a...

...question, something there, right? And ultimately, like, you know, for us, it's like those outcomes the scoreboard around revenue and around things like, you know, customer expansion revenue. You know, the metrics that we all care about those air ultimately always gonna be driven by consistent actions and patterns and behaviors. It's not gonna be like by watching the scoreboard and worrying about that, right? It's, you know, ensuring that you're constantly looking at the recognition of those things that are pushing that needle forward. If you have core values in your company, most people don't even know like what those core values are. Number one, number two like, you know, like a lot of organizations like, you know, they'll pick him up on the wall and, like, put him in a frame and stuff, right? We try to bring those toe life by saying, you know, how do you recognize around this core values? How do you make them riel on? That's when people start seeing okay, Yeah, This is an organization that believes in this, and they're showing that, you know, recognition of these things is really important of these values are really important and frankly like, even for small team like art, you know, as we've grown to be able to see what's happening inside the organization, the way that I am kept aware of a lot of the different things that are happening is through the daily weekly recognitions that I'm seeing, you know? Oh, that's awesome. I had no idea, Like, you know this person one of, well, well, above and beyond for this customer by going, you know, doing these x y and Z things, right? That's how you get to know people inside the organization. Even better. Two things I wanna to close out on here. So you mentioned your team. We are a member of sales marketing revenue leaders. You mentioned to me before we hit record that your team is growing, that you all are bringing on new people. So for anyone listening, what are some of those roles that would be appealing? Thio this community? Yeah, for sure. So super exciting time for us. You know, overall, like we are a company that has kind of gone with very low levels or slash bootstrapped levels to now, having closed up fairly significant round of funding this past, you know, over the last, you know, around this summer time and we've got some great partners behind us as a result. Now we're starting to scale up our headcount quite a bit, especially in the areas of sales and marketing. We're also looking at folks on product eso we're looking at product specialists. We're looking at some folks on the engineering side continuing to scale up our efforts, and it doesn't really matter where you're located. So we're looking at folks everywhere, right? So we're you know, we we talked to talking like, you know, we're Atlanta based, but a lot of our team members here in Atlanta, but we also have folks you know everywhere else. Toronto, Europe. So I would love Thio. Love to kinda hear from folks that are interested in sort of being a part of a team. Now that Zatz changing the game around experience, employee experience, customer experience. So if you're listening out there, go check out Kalief, get Thio, Follow along with cream and hear. Hear what cool leaf is doing. And I think you know so many of you that I hear from weekly within Revenue Collective You all are struggling with this. You all are struggling with team morale and incentive and burnout yourselves and...

...for your team members. And so I I think that we've talked about such such important topics around the human aspect. I'll ask you to leave the group. We're recording this here in the back half of 2020 but it'll be going live in January. What are some things that you you would say to those that maybe are prone to that February 1st Burnout? Yeah. I mean, I've never really been a huge believer and like those big resolutions, right? Like that's to me like, you know, you kind of set the target on maybe some small things, and I think that's great. But try Thio, approach it incrementally and give yourself a little bit of room to say, you know, Hey, it's okay. Like if I'm gonna maybe define it as a weekly or monthly type of target. I think where we see a lot of people kind of burnout is because, you know, they set those resolutions and they set those targets way too high A to begin of the year, as opposed to kind of giving themselves room toe kind of go incrementally into these things. You could become a better leader. I think, just by, you know, my my sort of parting words here would be those leaders now that air managing anybody, right? It's about the humans, about the human experience. It's about empathy. I think you're going to see a lot more about empathy and compassion as we get in the new year. You know, we have a lot of healing to do in a lot of different ways, and I think that's true in the organization as well. There's a lot of different perspectives and different generations now think about, you know, really trying to embrace that. Make that a value and make that a, you know, really a differentiator for yourself as an organization. As you head into 2021 we feel really well positioned around that. We'd love toe. Let's talk, folks that that wanna learn more and and obviously wanna wanna look at the team as well. Yeah, there's one thing that I'm taking away from today is you said, um, it's the consistent programmatic behaviors that drive change. It's not the ebbs and flows. And so when I'm thinking about burnout in 2021 I'm thinking, What is the minimum consistency I can keep? I can always go up, but it's almost like working out and starting and saying, I'm going to do seven days a week for an hour. Verses. I'm going to dio a 30 minute walk two days a week, which one of those you consistently commit thio And then, you know, add in as you get more efficient at that and understanding what those those high upper and lower limits are. So for those of you listening, I think that could be a really interesting prompt for your team to say, What are we willing to commit to that will always happen. And let's start at a minimum and go from there. And and maybe it becomes a bit more managed versus all in and crashing and burning, you know, for 5. 10. Yeah, for sure. Think big. Start Small. Right. So I think this was really wonderful. I think this is such a relevant topic and one of revenue collective. One of our goals is, um, personalization and intimacy at scale. And I'm so glad that we went into the human side of it. We did talk work, of course. That's why we're all here. We...

...run businesses need to make money. But it was much more about how to make sure that you see the people around you as actual humans. So thank you for sure. Yeah, well, thank you for having me, and it's just great. I appreciate it. All right, this is the revenue collective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon today. My guest was praying Bhatia, the co founder of Cool Leaf. I invite you guys to go check them out there doing some pretty cool stuff. No pun intended. All right. We'll see you next time. All right. That is our first revenue collective episode for January 2021. We did it. Y'all were in the new year praying you were an awesome guests. And I'm so glad that we're kicking off this year with this topic. This episode was brought to you by quote a path quota path is the first radically transparent and to end compensation solution from sales reps to finance. Get started for free at quota pop dot com, and your next commission cycle could be totally automated.

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