The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

Ep 32: Clean Slate: Prevent & Conquer Burnout in 2021 feat Prem Bhatia

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Clean Slate: Prevent & Conquer Burnout in 2021 feat Prem Bhatia

Hello and welcome to the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey, like Gordon and I'm your host. Today Ihave the chance to sit down with Prem Bhatia and talk about clean slate.Prevent and conquer burnout in 2021. Everyone comes in January saying NewYear, New me. But for many of us we're still facing so many of the samechallenges that plague 2020 remote workforce, Keeping teams incentivizedand engaged and burnout Israel were still full time parents caretakers.We're still dealing with a pandemic. And so despite it being ah switched toa new calendar year burn out is still a very real thing. And so prime and I aregoing to talk about his company, Cool Leaf, which is all about creating thoseamazing employees experiences and how you can prevent and conquer it withinyour own organization. Before I get started, I would love to give a callout to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Quota Path Commissiontracking software built by salespeople for sales people. If you wake up in acold sweat, dreading the commission's process quota path is for you. Quote apath provides commission transparency for everyone involved while motivatingreps to sell more. Plus, it's so easy toe on board, it'll be running beforeyour next commission cycle. Ditch the spreadsheets and formulas. Simplifycommission calculation at quota path dot com. Hello and welcome to therevenue collective podcast of My Name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your hosttoday. I have the chance to sit down with Prem Bhatia, the co founder ofCool Leaf. For those of you who don't know Cooley of works with scalingorganizations and top brands to create memorable experiences for employees andcustomers. With that, I think it's pretty cool that we get to sit downwith not just what somebody I'm sure that sells and markets the business.But is the actual co founder so praying? Welcome to the show. Thanks for havingme, Casey. Appreciate it. All right. I gave a really lovely bio about whatyour company does love. Love that. But I find there's nothing better thanhearing it directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So tell me, what iscool Leaf? Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thanks again for having me. Um, So whatwe do in a nutshell is we focus in on creating amazing, extraordinaryexperiences, both from the standpoint of employee experience as well ascustomer experience. Those two are really intertwined. But how we do thatis primarily through framework that we look at that looks at three steps. Oneis, Are you listening to the stakeholders that you're interested indeveloping great experience for the second is once you've listened to them,are you engaging them in the actions and behaviors that matter? So we have anumber of tactics, including recognition and rewards groupexperiences, performance incentives...

...that we put into play intoorganizations that we work with. And then the third step is really Are youmeasuring what the success is not just listening, but also the measurement ofthose interventions and those tactics that you're taking to engage people. Soyou hear a lot about, like, employee experience, hear a lot about employeeengagement, you know, it's kind of the quote unquote space that we live in. Um,we're starting to doom or on customer experience work as well, but that'skind of where we play. So I have a couple of questions. So this is thetopic of today that you and I are digging into, as I mentioned in theintro is around this idea of burnout. Andi, I think that I have. It's been atopic for a while, but 2020 has made it. I mean, it's seemingly every headlinethat you're looking at. Both zoom fatigue, employees, burnout, you know,self help, mental, you know, mental health. All of that is, is top frontcenter. And I always think it's interesting that we talk about, likethis New Year. New me. We're listening to this in January, so it's It's, youknow, you come into the New Year and all your problems Air fixed. You comein with all this energy. January is gonna look a little different this yearfor us. We're still mostly remote. We're still dealing with a pandemicwe're dealing with the first time of what is vaccination look like? We'restill dealing with parents who are at home with their Children while alsoworking, and the idea that employee experience, like it looked differentwhen we were in the office. Talk to me about how you all are looking at goinginto this next year because it's not just the burnout that happened at theend of 2020. 0, take the holidays and recharge. It's like, No, we're stillwalking into a really challenging work environment. Yeah, for sure. I find ithelpful. Like to always, like, frame back to, like, the kind of B s test.Like, you know what's going on in your life personally, right? And, you know,for me, it's like, Yeah, everything is not okay. You know, like Esso.Everything is not okay. Especially if you're a parent. It's not okay, right?Um I think even those of us that you know may not be parents. It's notnecessarily a great time, right? I think you know, people have adjusted. Ispeak to people all the time that, you know, when you kind of break down thewalls a little bit like yeah, you know, I'm drinking a lot more on, like, youknow, doing things that I shouldn't be, you know, like it zero on. And so, uh,it's it's become tougher managers also right, because it's hard to kind of getthat, you know, in person interaction that you might have had where you getthe water cooler and you can't really replicate that, really, Virtually a lotof times. So what? We're trying to help our customers with this, Really? Youknow this idea that you know, one of the best ways to kind of tackle that isby thinking about, you know, employee engagement, the employee experience allit's all it's all about, ultimately is of the human at the end of the day,right? So, like when we think about customer experience or human experience,I don't think about it that way. I think about like human experience,right? Like there's no difference between me as a customer means anemployee. I've got, you know, human...

...needs. Or, you know, am I beinglistened to Am I being might have different outcomes that you want fromthose different groups? But the needs are the same. It just might be youroutcome lens that I want you to transact with me versus I want you towork for me or whatever the the ask is. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, ultimatelya my being listened to a my being seen in my visible right. Is that somethingthat I feel like my managers prioritizing? So, you know, we providethose platforms. Those tools, the platform, the tools to actually helpwith those types of problems for our customers. And, yeah, we're hearing ita lot more. You know, we're hearing a lot more that leaders aren't sure.There's a staff that just came out pretty recently. Like around half ofmanagers aren't sure that they're going to feel comfortable that over the longterm they're gonna be able to manage the remote teams. And remote teams noware just not there here to stay. It's not like it's not like this just goesaway and, you know, middle of next year when the world quote unquote resumesexactly right. So it zone issue that's going to stay with us. And, you know,you may have some part of your work for somebody some part of team in in housein the on the on the office. But you may have 70% 80% that are remote, right?So how to balance that? How to make people feel like they're all includedin that on day? How to make sure that they feel again listen to visible howyou're bringing a team together? You know, there's a lot of tools out theretoday, but they're just that. Their tools, they're not actual strategicallydesigned program. Programmatic kind of approaches. And that's where we saw thegap in the market is It's not enough to just have, you know, we have a slackchannel for that. Okay, well, that's great. But you know that that may notnecessarily be programmatic. And it's, um, in its efforts, and you may notactually be using data to measure and integrates some of your approachesaround engagement and experience the way you need Thio. Totally. So onething I'm thinking about as we were just talking about those remote teams.Well, actually, two questions. So first of all, I find any good Founder usuallyhas a terrible experience or really good experience that that spawned themto create a business. So I'm curious for you. Was it a really shittyexperience that may want to say Like, let me let me tackle this. Yeah, Yeah,that's a great That's a great question. Um, yeah, it was so I knew what areally good culture look like. But the reason I knew what a really goodculture look like is because I went to a really terrible culture, right? Andit sometimes takes, You know, figuring that out and understanding what you hadwas a really special thing. You know, you could see, you know, you couldprobably figure it out. But, you know, there there was a big move that I madedown to Atlanta at that time to an organization that I think had a lot ofissues with company culture. And my co founder ended up being someone that Ifound through that experience on DSO. We kind of shared that. We saw thewriting on the wall that this, you know, this is being talked to its beingessentially paid lip service to buy a lot of organizational leaders. Um, anda lot of leaders. Team leaders now...

...can't afford to just pay lip service tothis type of thing because I think people see through that, right? So, youknow, we know what the stats look like. We know that recognition is important.We know that feeling visible is important. And, yes, to answer yourquestion, I mean, I think having felt invisible to some extent, having feltyou know what it feels like to know what the other side of, you know, beingappreciated. Having a great team that's there for you, then going to that Teoh,you know, essentially becoming invisible. Ah, lot of people nowunfortunately, are feeling that way because they are remote, right, and youmight have been in a really bad culture. You might have been a really crappyculture before, even in person, and felt like that. But now it's becomingeven more of a Norman. We see that manifesting through stats that you seewith mental health and wellness. You know, one out of three adults isexperiencing some level of like, you know, burnout or depression. Right now,you know, we're seeing parents at the breaking point. So you know this isthis is out there right now. It's real for people. How do you all defineburnout? Do you have a specific term or or categorization of defining that you know we don't like? It's not likeorganizationally. We look at it any differently, I think, than you knowwhat sort of standard definition might be or burn. I think it's more of, youknow, if you're not hearing from your team, if you're feeling like thingswere just kind of pushing along, but you haven't taken additional steps toengage them further. You know your risk is there, right and burnout.Essentially one of the issues, I think with burnout now is that I talked to afriend of mine that are sort of like in corporate real estate and that, like,you know, it's obviously a tough time for a lot of these folks. But the sortof transfer cost of like going from one employer to another right now is verynominal in a way, because really what you're doing is like I got a differentGmail account, you know, I got a different corporate email. It's likeit's not much different now, So that's, you know, that's also something that Ithink a lot of folks don't keep in mind. Is that like, you know, Yes, we're in avery terrible market for a lot of people. I think now there are a lot ofpain on the other side and tech. We're seeing that the you know, there isquite a bit of growth in certain industries and sectors now, and there'salso quite a bit of talents being poached because the transfer costs areso low right now, in a way, right? It's not like and people are already hurtingright. If the culture is not staining, there's less of that that connection.There's less of that. Maybe loyalty that's being dwindled being chippedaway at. And I think you know the appeal becomes much, much moreattractive to be able to go to another organization. So I'm curious. Over 2020as companies have gone more remote, I'm sure you had remote customers to start,but more remote today. Have the asks of what your plot product and platform candio Has that evolved? Yeah, So we we've had to listen to our customers likeevery tech company has to. And I think you know, one of the big newcapabilities that that we've released...

...recently was the listening capability.But the way that we look at listening because because it's become such a bigpriority for people to like, you know, how are folks feeling? You know, howcan I do this in a pulsing way that's tied quickly into, you know, mobile appplatform People can actually quickly respond into, but one of the otherthings that we've heard us, you know, and and our, our thesis on this is sortof, like evolved over time, but, you know, really tow us. Listening isn'tjust pulsing people, and it's also looking at their behavior on platformsthat they're interacting with on a daily basis. So that force it might beoutreach dot io might be sales loft, whatever it might be, you know, mightbe zendesk. We've developed, you know, really tight integrations with a lot ofthese platforms, which a lot of managers and team leaders to do.Positive reinforcement of behaviors and positive recognition and incentivesaround those behaviors and leading indicators of success and metricsrather than really kind of big brother ish looking over the shoulder, tryingto see, you know, there are acts out there now that essentially get intoreally big privacy issues around like Are they wasting time? You know, like,how do I know they're not like that was my question is, how do you? I mean, asan employee, I could be there could be a fine line between Wow, I'm gettingrewards and incentives in. Oh, shit. Were you watching me while I would Youknow, it's like that could be really awkward and I think could have a Youhave to walk that fine line. So, yeah, and that's our philosophy is thateverything should be about positive reinforcement of those indicators thatmatter now. When you think about success, everyone wants to get monthlyrecurring revenue. Everyone wants to get top line growth, profitability,those types of big metrics, right? The smaller indicators towards that success,whether its sales teams, whether it's things like turnaround time on tickets,whether it's things like see sat, you know, whether those air the indicatorsthat we help our customers with, you know, from a sales standpoint,obviously there's a ton that you could look out there. We do deep integrationswith those platforms to enable our customers to say, Hey, you know, ourteam scattered everywhere, you know, we want the ability to provide them smallincentives and small rewards along the way to keep them incentive andmotivated and say, Yeah, we saw you do that like we saw you there, you know,and good for you. That's not We're seeing you there and were watching you.It's yeah, awesome. We're watching, and we think it's great that you did that.It's not that I need to know where you are every minute of the day. Whatbrowser history looks like. That's not the wind, right? And I think that'swhere I think a lot of management and leadership is gonna get this wrong. Butthe people that get this right are gonna be the ones that look at and sayThat's not the way to do this. You have to have, obviously, like, some elementof trust. But you have to be able to do quick reinforcement. Quick publicrecognition, quick incentives tied into those leading indicators of success tokeep your team motivated throughout this, you know, long haul that we'regonna be in now and possibly even for impermanence. Now, at this point, yeah,completely. I'm something that, as you were talking, came to mind. I hear from,you know, there's conversations or...

...articles being written around employeeproductivity, and I'm sure some leaders at the top somewhere saying, Well, wejust need to get new employees or we need to you know, they they're notrecognizing it's the environment by which were in there, instead saying,How do I know people are being productive or all of those questionsand what I'm hearing is that a tool like this? Or, you know, how you allare tackling the problem of burnout? My If I were to play out your argument,it's probably invest in your employees in order to get more from them. However,you may have some leaders that are saying, Yeah, I can't afford to investanymore like we're tapped out. We you know, they just gotta show up anddeliver. How did you you know, I'm putting on my sales hat now. I'm justcurious, like, how do you into educating overcome in that environment?Because I'm sure there's a lot of our listeners that maybe say, like, mycompany just doesn't have anything else to invest. How do you equip them totackle this? You know, the very honest answer here is that we call bullshit onsome of it, to be honest, um, you know, the there's a CEO of a company calledGravity Payments. Dan Rice, who a lot of people, you know, becoming more andmore aware of. One of the interesting things that he did was he took a$70,000 salary and he brought everybody in the organization up to $70,000salary, no matter where they were in terms of seniority level. And a lot ofpeople really like we're super skeptical there. Like, you know, Whatthe hell is this guy doing? Ends up that they had a banner year, they wereable to keep a lot of their customers. They were able to grow top line moreaggressively than they had in the past. We think that's a sign of things tocome right now. We think that a lot of organizations now are being led byfolks that talk out of both sides of their mouth, unfortunately, but arebeing called out on it. We think that part of this re balancing, if you will,is gonna be saying, You know, look, leadership needs to talk the talk here.You can't expect the best out of your people when you say these things. Andyet your 405 100 X toe one. In terms of your compensation to the averageemployee that doesn't work anymore. It's just not gonna work. And you needto find ways to create mawr incentives for people. You need to re balance thatyou need to look at ways in which you could make it more fair for employees.Otherwise, you're in for a very tough ride, you know, very tough, right? Ithink, you know, especially going into 2021. We're very informed generation ofnow. We have four generations in the workplace. Okay, I'm gen X right. Butlike Gen. Y gen Z now, like I mean the Millennials and Gen Z, I think we work,you know, a lot of our team, you know, millennials and like, you know, we workwith Gen. Zia's well, but like, right now, the information is out there, youknow, And people are gonna find out one way or another where you're talking outof both sides, your mouth or whether you're really about this. And so at theend of the day, it's like, all right, don't don't try to bullshit peoplenumber one Number two. It's you know, when you see people doing good things,you should not have to be told that as...

...a leader, you should be publiclyrecognizing If you are the type of leader that still doesn't get that thisis really important and has a dramatic impact on engagement. You're probablynot going to be a great person for us to work with, right if you're the typeof leader that does invest in these, and I'll give you an example. We'veworked with a school called Woodward Academy, which is based in Atlanta.It's the largest, the largest private school in the continental U. S. 700.Faculty and staff. Their president already understood this. They've been atop. They've been the number one workplace for number two, and he's like,You know, it's It's for the last 8, 10 years, something like that They're not,You know, they are a type of customer that we love, right? We love customersthat, you know, realize that this is super important. They can't be us theirway around this anymore. So it's an accelerant to an already existingculture. You're helping put gas on the fire, but they already had the flames.That's exactly right. I mean, like, if employees experience is something thatyou think is heavily intertwined with customer experience, which it is, andyou want top line growth, you know, those two are so intertwined that youknow any leader worth their salt understands that now and says, you know,And if they don't, you know, I think they're gonna have their probablyalready running into tough times. But it's gonna get even tougher for thosefolks. Um, they, you know, hey, we can continue on status quo on DSO for like,it's a matter of saying, How can you apply technology to make this a moredata driven effort around employee experience? How can you now applybetter methodologies around customer experiences? Well, how can you not justpulse survey? How can you not just ask, but also then take action? Right? Sothat's where our modality of like you know, listen, action measure reallycomes in. Yeah. Two questions I have talking about burnout. I have toolfatigue. It's like I both as a manager and an employee. If you introduce onemore thing, it's like, Gosh, I you know, I'm pulling up different tabs. I'mtrying to integrate it all, and I think that especially in a remote world whereyou're having a self learner and self teach, a lot of those things integrateinto your behaviors. Do you all run into that? Do you observe that? Are youknow any any thoughts there? Yeah, I was talking to someone on our teamabout this. Actually, Pretty recently, there's a book called Deep Work by aguy named Cal Newport. If you know the base camp, guys like Jason Freed and ththey talk a lot about this idea of uninterrupted blocks of time, that aircritical. One of the things that I've done even for myself and I encouragepeople on our team to do is like I don't I don't really want you to gofrom a Knauer of work to like a meeting to another hour of work and then,potentially, like two meetings and then another hour like that is not the wayyou 99% of people's days. That's right. That's not the way you get stuff done.Now I understand, saying that they're not. Everybody has the luxury ofsetting that schedule, but they do have...

...the ability to talk to their managersif they are in a situation like that, and they should take the opportunity tosay this block of time right here is uninterrupted time. It's deep work time.I put everything on like, you know, do not disturb. We've had organizations.Where we, you know, we sometimes run challenges around these types of thingsthrough our platform. One of the most popular challenges that we do is anunplugged challenge. Basically, it means, like unplug for 30 minutes a dayand literally like it's like no electron ICS nothing. And that's beensuper powerful for a lot of people. It's been transformative for a lot ofpeople. The idea of especially in functions like sales, you know, infunctions like in any function quite honestly, toe have a block ofuninterrupted time. Every day of at least 2 to 3 hours is critical. To getanything done is in fact, a competitive advantage. If your competitors air notdoing that and their teams air running like you know, crazy, you will have theability to think deeper about certain issues and be able to really tackle theimportant things, as opposed to thinking that you're getting work doneand actually, in fact, just running from one thing to another, right,completely so one of the biggest topics that has come up in in the revenuecollective community and we have plenty of people that listen, but that is alarge percentage of our listener base. And where we get a lot of intel isexactly what you said earlier around managers not feeling equipped like they,you know, they carry the weight of God. My employees air are drained. I'mdrained. I have pressure from the top. I would love to hear if you can share areally tangible example of how you your team, where companies you work withhave tackled that and where cool if place in that in that story, becauseI'm hearing this, I'm like, yes, I'm ready to drink the Kool Aid, but I'mlike, how does it work? So I want, like, a really tangible example. Yeah, so,you know, from our standpoint, like there are certain manager conversationsthat we don't necessarily like, we're not necessarily helping our customerswith that. We can take him down a path of saying where we help is being ableto ensure that you are being observed. You're being recognized publicly forthe accomplishments that you have. Um, there is a huge tie into recognition.Public recognition, in fact, like there's something like almost 80% ofemployees today, like feel like they're not recognized enough for thoseachievements and, you know, it's like now it's gone to a point whererecognition and, you know, sort of real time recognition. Public recognitionhas become even more paramount during in remote, you know, in a in a remoteenvironment. So, really, where we help our customers is on the idea thatmanagers to become more effective team leaders to become more effective, needto take a certain amount of time during the week typically like a Fridayafternoon to think about the three or four different people that they maywant to recognize publicly. Maybe it's even more than that on their team to beable to call that out and to make it a habit, potentially even to do that on adaily basis, right? Ideally, that's...

...happening all the time. Now we see, youknow, we've seen millions upon millions of recognitions happening through ourplatform, right, that stuff that that happens, it's publicly disseminatedinto the organization so people can understand what people are up to, andit has a dramatic impact on the level of engagement inside of an organizationwe've had, you know, we've had people tell us like I never realized that youknow, people actually saw me here for what I was contributing, right? That'sa massive, massive change. Now you know, in regards to like the actual mechanicsof saying, Hey, do you have enough time to kind of get work done? Yeah, thoseair manager level conversations where we might put programming into place,like related to things like, you know, taking a break and unplugging right andhelping them manage those types of programs. But we're not not necessarilygetting to super involved in terms of like, you know, the manager toe stafflevel kind of conversations that need to happen where we come in is reallyprogrammatically trying to say what the behaviors that matter, Let's listen in.Let's create programs to help our customers achieve those levels of, youknow, positive behavior reinforcement. And let's help them increase themetrics that they're ultimately concerned with. Like, you know,reduction on employee attrition, improvement in top line productivity,improvement in operational metrics through things like small incentives,challenges record public recognition of those behaviors inside the organization. I find that I have a lot of empathy forah lot of people during this pandemic, But manager specifically because I in alot of companies, especially those that are earlier stage or high growthUsually you're a player coach, your two things. You're not just overseeingpeople. And I find that in this environment, the people aspect is somuch more demanding. And as a manager or a team lead, there may need to beconversations upward of hay in an office environment. I can do both, butin a remote environment, I have to be so much more attune because you'regonna have me doing both. But then we're gonna lose this employee or we'regonna lose this team morale. And so for any of you listening, I would say, youknow, really be reflective of that as we go into, especially potentially apermanent, remote working scenario. But certainly over the first six months of2021 I you know, I would imagine that we're gonna be in this world. And somaybe it's something to pilot. Maybe it's something to say. Can managers doa little bit less? Can we take some of the additional work off their plate andreally focus on helping each of those employees fries to their highestpotential making sure that we create that space, that margin so that we canactually retain a team. Not That's right. Yeah. Look, I mean, I thinkthere's any organization you're gonna have issues where it's like, Yeah, wehit like a crazy patch where they're like everyone is going burning oil.It's like, you know, like that zombie just not gonna be able to help, right?There's gonna be moments like that organization. But you have to bestarting to question whether it's like, 350 days a year. I mean, that's not youknow, Then you're you probably got a...

...question, something there, right? Andultimately, like, you know, for us, it's like those outcomes the scoreboardaround revenue and around things like, you know, customer expansion revenue.You know, the metrics that we all care about those air ultimately always gonnabe driven by consistent actions and patterns and behaviors. It's not gonnabe like by watching the scoreboard and worrying about that, right? It's, youknow, ensuring that you're constantly looking at the recognition of thosethings that are pushing that needle forward. If you have core values inyour company, most people don't even know like what those core values are.Number one, number two like, you know, like a lot of organizations like, youknow, they'll pick him up on the wall and, like, put him in a frame and stuff,right? We try to bring those toe life by saying, you know, how do yourecognize around this core values? How do you make them riel on? That's whenpeople start seeing okay, Yeah, This is an organization that believes in this,and they're showing that, you know, recognition of these things is reallyimportant of these values are really important and frankly like, even forsmall team like art, you know, as we've grown to be able to see what'shappening inside the organization, the way that I am kept aware of a lot ofthe different things that are happening is through the daily weeklyrecognitions that I'm seeing, you know? Oh, that's awesome. I had no idea, Like,you know this person one of, well, well, above and beyond for this customer bygoing, you know, doing these x y and Z things, right? That's how you get toknow people inside the organization. Even better. Two things I wanna to close out on here.So you mentioned your team. We are a member of sales marketing revenueleaders. You mentioned to me before we hit record that your team is growing,that you all are bringing on new people. So for anyone listening, what are someof those roles that would be appealing? Thio this community? Yeah, for sure. Sosuper exciting time for us. You know, overall, like we are a company that haskind of gone with very low levels or slash bootstrapped levels to now,having closed up fairly significant round of funding this past, you know,over the last, you know, around this summer time and we've got some greatpartners behind us as a result. Now we're starting to scale up ourheadcount quite a bit, especially in the areas of sales and marketing. We'realso looking at folks on product eso we're looking at product specialists.We're looking at some folks on the engineering side continuing to scale upour efforts, and it doesn't really matter where you're located. So we'relooking at folks everywhere, right? So we're you know, we we talked to talkinglike, you know, we're Atlanta based, but a lot of our team members here inAtlanta, but we also have folks you know everywhere else. Toronto, Europe.So I would love Thio. Love to kinda hear from folks that are interested insort of being a part of a team. Now that Zatz changing the game aroundexperience, employee experience, customer experience. So if you'relistening out there, go check out Kalief, get Thio, Follow along withcream and hear. Hear what cool leaf is doing. And I think you know so many ofyou that I hear from weekly within Revenue Collective You all arestruggling with this. You all are struggling with team morale andincentive and burnout yourselves and...

...for your team members. And so I I thinkthat we've talked about such such important topics around the humanaspect. I'll ask you to leave the group. We're recording this here in the backhalf of 2020 but it'll be going live in January. What are some things that youyou would say to those that maybe are prone to that February 1st Burnout? Yeah. I mean, I've never really been ahuge believer and like those big resolutions, right? Like that's to melike, you know, you kind of set the target on maybe some small things, andI think that's great. But try Thio, approach it incrementally and giveyourself a little bit of room to say, you know, Hey, it's okay. Like if I'mgonna maybe define it as a weekly or monthly type of target. I think wherewe see a lot of people kind of burnout is because, you know, they set thoseresolutions and they set those targets way too high A to begin of the year, asopposed to kind of giving themselves room toe kind of go incrementally intothese things. You could become a better leader. I think, just by, you know, mymy sort of parting words here would be those leaders now that air managinganybody, right? It's about the humans, about the human experience. It's aboutempathy. I think you're going to see a lot more about empathy and compassionas we get in the new year. You know, we have a lot of healing to do in a lot ofdifferent ways, and I think that's true in the organization as well. There's alot of different perspectives and different generations now think about,you know, really trying to embrace that. Make that a value and make that a, youknow, really a differentiator for yourself as an organization. As youhead into 2021 we feel really well positioned around that. We'd love toe.Let's talk, folks that that wanna learn more and and obviously wanna wanna lookat the team as well. Yeah, there's one thing that I'm takingaway from today is you said, um, it's the consistent programmatic behaviorsthat drive change. It's not the ebbs and flows. And so when I'm thinkingabout burnout in 2021 I'm thinking, What is the minimum consistency I cankeep? I can always go up, but it's almost like working out and startingand saying, I'm going to do seven days a week for an hour. Verses. I'm goingto dio a 30 minute walk two days a week, which one of those you consistentlycommit thio And then, you know, add in as you get more efficient at that andunderstanding what those those high upper and lower limits are. So forthose of you listening, I think that could be a really interesting promptfor your team to say, What are we willing to commit to that will alwayshappen. And let's start at a minimum and go from there. And and maybe itbecomes a bit more managed versus all in and crashing and burning, you know,for 5. 10. Yeah, for sure. Think big. Start Small. Right. So I think this wasreally wonderful. I think this is such a relevant topic and one of revenuecollective. One of our goals is, um, personalization and intimacy at scale.And I'm so glad that we went into the human side of it. We did talk work, ofcourse. That's why we're all here. We...

...run businesses need to make money. Butit was much more about how to make sure that you see the people around you asactual humans. So thank you for sure. Yeah, well, thank you for having me,and it's just great. I appreciate it. All right, this is the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon today. My guest was prayingBhatia, the co founder of Cool Leaf. I invite you guys to go check them outthere doing some pretty cool stuff. No pun intended. All right. We'll see younext time. All right. That is our first revenuecollective episode for January 2021. We did it. Y'all were in the new yearpraying you were an awesome guests. And I'm so glad that we're kicking off thisyear with this topic. This episode was brought to you by quote a path quotapath is the first radically transparent and to end compensation solution fromsales reps to finance. Get started for free at quota pop dot com, and yournext commission cycle could be totally automated.

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