The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

Ep 21: Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

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Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

Hi and welcome to the revenue collective podcast. My Name Is Casey let Gordon and I'm your host. Today I have the opportunity to sit down with Ted gruly Cowski, the vice president at rocket power. Ted is one of our members from Atlanta and we're going to be talking about fact or fiction outsourcing sales. Our goal from today's conversation is going to be to dispel some myths and rumors about what it is to really outsource your sales process or outsource your sales function. It's going to be insights into a hidden industry, more context into why people do it, when it works when it doesn't. Ted has some tangible things to offer to the war listeners around. How do you know if outsourcing is right for you, and then how do you actually assess a partner? I'm super grateful for Ted. He brings so much experience, authenticity and, honestly, tangibility to something that can feel a little big and a little scary. So tune in today and let's get started. Before we do, I want to give a big shout out to our sponsor, send Oso. Sindoso is the leading sending platform. It's the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic point throughout the customer journey. By connecting digital and physical strategies, companies can engage, acquire and retain customers easier than ever before. All right, thank you. Send Oso on, Casey, like Gordon, and let's jump in with Ted. Hello and welcome today's revenue collective podcast. My Name Is Casey, let Gordon, and I'm your host. Today I have the chance to sit down with a fellow Atlanta member, Ted Guly Cowski. Ted Is the vice president at rocket power and it's going to be chatting with me today about outsourcing sales, fact or fiction. Little highlight to this is it's insights into a hidden industry, why people do it, when it works, when it doesn't, what to look out for and dispelling common myths. I'm excited to sit down and talk about this because, candidly, it was something I dealt with in my last role on my way out, and I have some questions. So, Ted, welcome. Hey, Casey, thanks glad to be here before to having a funch at me. To me too. So Ted, always like to start off by just letting our guests tell of the audience a little bit about themselves. Give me a hit on what is rocket power? What is your role there and and maybe some career highlights before you you landed in this new role. Yeah, sure, Casey. I spent twenty years and go to market sales and business leadership roles pretty much always focused on developing strategies and building teams to drive revenue growth. So rocket power is a forbestop one hundred start up and we offer disruptive talent solution. So, if I'm sitting on this podcast or what the hell does that mean? So it means we do three things. We help companies find the absolute best talent, build the exact solutions they're looking for and then run the very best teams in the world, where a bunch of x operators that really are offering the thing things that when we sat in the shoes, like a lot of Redmen, collective members, is BEP of sales and chief people officers of other things. We're offering the solutions that we wanted to buy but couldn't get. I love that so much. I love because I have been one of those talent had those talent needs, and you're sitting there so often and just like you said, you're trying to articulate to an outsource partner or to a third party, especially by the time you need talent, you're usually already hurting. Right. Nobody goes out proactively and says I need all of this stuff. They come to you when they're already in a moment of crisis. And so for you all to bring the expertise of been there done that, I can imagine accelerates and brings a lot more value than your traditional partner. Yeah, it does. I mean it's interesting when we sit down with folks and we actually have the conversation and says, not only have I work for an outsourcing company, you know, most of my career, but I've actually sat in BPA sales shoes and I've dealt with a lot of the challenge that they've dealt with in the questions. And many years ago I didn't know this industry existed either. And when people hear outsourcing and they think God knows what, right, and most of those really...

...can be a turnoff. Right, like it sounds whether it maybe, it sounds expensive, it sounds lower quality, it sounds like a stop gap, like it doesn't necessarily ring the best I don't perception. So what are your what are your thoughts there? Your M percent right? I mean it doesn't. So if you're sitting here listening to this and either the word outsourcing the last thing you think about a sales you think about a really awful customer experience with your cred a card company or calling into you know one of your cable companies. Will leave brands out of this and you know you're who they we're looking at. They know who they are, they know when they are. You're thinking, just like you said, low quality and you know, why would I do this? And Oh man, if I run into company and I'm a founder of a startup, while I'm supposed to know us, Soll you my God, I'm not going to everybody else cell for me. So it's this kind of this bastardized term in the sales world that people just don't understand. But when they hear of all the companies that actually outsource different components of their sales dragy, they go to market strategy, oftentimes they're shot. I love that. Not to me, is what today is all about. It's dispelling the myths and the thing that I found with this community and tell me. You know your experience, I think you and I joined about the same time earlier in two thousand and twenty, is that it's been helpful for me to pull back the curtain on some things that maybe I've heard about or tangentially know, but I haven't had a chance to really dig in just because of my own experiences. So when we talk about, you know, outsourcing sales, let's start with first. I personally, maybe this is bias, I wass think big company will outsource sales right like they're super big, they need scale and they're trying to get butts and seats. Tell me, what are the considerations of saying self selecting to be a company that should consider outsourcing? So, Caz, you're right, a lot of big companies do think about outsourcing sales, but also a lot of companies that are a hundred folks d see back, be back, just got a big check, or try and figure out how to drive growth or trying to figure out, you know, how do I develop different parts in like go to markets, draggy, how do I try things? So there's a lot of reasons that companies outsource sales. But before we think about why companies do it, maybe we spend a second to finding like what it is, because that's really it's for. Somebody says should I do it or not? It's like, okay, well, what is outsourcing sales actually mean? And if I'm sitting as a VP of sales in a small company or big company, well, what are my options? If you think that would help, I love it. Let's do that. Tied, your the expert here, so take us away. All right, a couple things. So outsourcing sales doesn't mean that you need to hand your entire sales team off to another company. It doesn't even mean that you need to hire or handoff the management, day to day responsibility your sales teams another company. A lot of companies in this space as perpetuated this myth that if you're going to use an outsource and sales teams, that you have to give up the entire amount of control and you have to do it their way and you have to buy all these things that you may not want. Well, modern companies in this space are offering solutions that allow you to really honestly do whatever you want. So let's say that you're a sales leader at a SASS company and you're looking to drive growth and you need a dozen people to perhaps put on an indirect channel because you're a hundred percent direct focus, or your growing like crazy and you need somebody to handle upsell across cell, or you need an inside sales team because you're sitting in San Francisco and you don't want to Fay San Francisco prices and you'd rather be Someonello. And the right outsource sales provider can help you recruit the talent, they can help you find the talent, they can pay roll that talent if they want, if you want, they can provide you the technology. So the entire sales are marketing text deck. If you want them to use yours, they can. Again, this is the right sales outsource and providers. Why the space? That won't do that and that's the myth. The other thing that companies will do is if you want to manage those folks but they work for someone else. There's a lot of reasons why you do that. A lot of financial reasons and a lot of things that DCS can currents find really attractive about this...

...and do all those things. You can have people to demand en we JEN appointment settings. You can have folks to high end enterprise sales, you know, where they're selling deals that are a million dollar plus to six eight months sale cycles. Companies are using outsource providers or talent to loopings providers to do all those things. So talk to me about like you mentioned vcmp backed and that to me is always an interesting space because I've done some work in that space and so much of why people invest in get those dollars is the team. And so I want to understand because when you told me that, I'm surprised because my original thought is, well, they're going to want it in house, right, they're going to want the people to be homegrown, they're going to want them to eat, breathe. Know the solution. How have you seen it actually be a value add to those partners? Sure? So That's another myth, that they can be homegrown and they can't be internal and the companies can't take them over. Again, that's the problem with the leg you see companies in this space. They have convinced sales leaders all over the ecosystem that they can only do things in certain way. It's just not true. So what I would tell you is, if you're a talent partner to VC fund you're an operating partner to pe company and you just wrote a big check and you just acquired a component of a let's call it a fast ground's ass company, and their core competency is their product, it's engineering, it's technical acumen, it's all those things. Maybe their core competency is in sales and you just stroke the huge check and those companies need maybe they want to shift their entire go to market model the inside sales from fields. That sounds familiar in the last six months for munch companies and done that. The company don't have a clue how to do that. So the right outsource sales or talent solutions partner will do this. They'll help you really define what the talent is that you need, they'll help you find that talent, they'll hire that talent that give you stood up and running and from the beginning they will design that solution to hand that entire team over to you in either nine months or twelve months. And by the time that that team's ready and they've done, quote unquote, all the hard work, that may not be that company's core competency and they learn how to do that together. That company, that pe or VC back company can take that whole team over and they are internal and they transfer the whole organization. So the VC partner looks at this and says, you can focus on all those things you're good at. I'm going to give you the money, I'm going to hire somebody that's really good at standing up and building sales teams, and you're right. Wall term, they may want those employees on their pay. Well, they may want those voises internal gone will great, you can get that when it makes sense. So yeah, it's this idea that people think they can't, but they really can the right part and so right partner that is so important to me here is so one of the things that it again, I'm speaking for my own anecdotal experience, you know you share some of yours, is that early stage companies and well, you know we're not right. Anybody is always resource trapped. I think that's just the nature of being in business. You always feel like there's more to do the maybe hands to do it, but especially in those early stages, and this was my experience, is that I knew I could use an outsource partner but I felt like the burden of on boarding them was so great. I had to wait for this perfect moment in time. Right, I'm going to get this done, I'm going to get my marketing materials ready, I'm going to give my persona's built out, whatever it is, until I can bring them on. And by the time I actually brought that partner on, I was ready to kick myself because I wish I had done it six, nine, twelve months earlier, because they brought so much sophistication and experience that they probably could have helped me do those things faster and better or maybe even take it over some of that. So talk to me about right partner and one is the right time to maybe engage, because I just am would know my own experience. I said, wow, I really think I limited my growth if I had just moved a little bit faster and and not been so burdened by my own to do list. Yeah, we all have to do list, for sure, and ours are growing every single days, you can imagine. So if you're a VP of sales or you're a founder,...

...or you know you're a small company or, frankly, if you're an SPP or an executive director at a big company, there's really six things you need to think about and how to evaluate if outsourcing sales. And again you got to remember how you to find outsourcing sales in my building. And you think, yeah, the audience can see but you just gave their quotes. So are quote missing sales? Because this is important, right. We're dispelling myths here. I like part of the yeah, case, you and I can see each other, everybody, so you know, unfortunately you don't have to see me talk for an hour, but she can. So I with the air quotes. So what you're six reasis. So you mentioned speed. So the first thing to speak. If you have to hire a dozen folks and you're a small company and you've got a million other things to do, how hard is that going to be for you to do? You have a whole bunch of recruiters? Can you even go through the interview to hire a dozen folks? Maybe you need to screen a hundred. Do you have the right job descriptions? Do you have the right job trials? Do you want to use behavioral analytic tools? You do you have the right ats? There's a hundred things to think about. So if you work with the right sales partners, talent solutions partner, if we want to go away from the word outsourcing for a second. That company could hire twelve people and haven't working for you and sixty days you know problem. That company could hire a hundred people and have them working for you in the sixty eight no problem. So think about it from a speed point of view. You really got to ask your question yourself. This question, how quickly can I move? Second one, scale. You want to scale up. Partner can help you do that. Here's the other thing. If whatever you're trying to do doesn't work for whatever reason, if you're trying to take a swing, and it may be a different go to marcus drag you, maybe a different channel, maybe you're trying to launch a different product. Whatever it is, it works really well, that partner can help you scale out. But if it doesn't work, you can make a phone call be out of that in thirty days. And I have to deal with all the things that come with that, and that's really important, especially for those of you that work for public companies. There's a lot involved with letting people go and everything associated. Yeah, I don't want to do that's a part I hadn't really thought about. It is like what if it goes wrong? And that's a risk anytime you bring someone new to the organization, right, those first ninety days, sixty days or so telling, and so the ability to have a single partner that could help either, you know, scale up or scale down. That's pretty powerful and I know that any revenue leaders founders, especially in early stage, that is one of the that's one of the most costly both from time and money in perspective. So I love that point and I hadn't thought about that prior if it goes wrong, yeah, I mean the cost of a missire right. You know, I could have a whole nother podcast and it totally for sure. So you think speed, you think scale and then we'll go with to others. So we got focus. So you mentioned that huge to do list that you have. Well, if you have a million other things to do and you're trying to start something new or you're trying to again, I go back to your trying to perhaps launch a new product or pursue a new channel or a new component, you go to market strategy. Or if you're in a big company and you're pulled a thousand different ways and perhaps if you start this team or your will see your product manager to company and you want the existing sales team to sell some new product or service when you know they're going to sell the things that are in their basket right now that they've always sold, they make their money out, they're probably going to ignore with oneself. They're not going to focus on it. Well, look, if you hire a talent solutions partner and outsourcing partner from a sales point to do, they're going to focus a hundred percent on what you want them to focus, laser focused on your mission and what you want to get done. So there's a level of focus you can get with the right partner that you can't get anywhere else. The other things flexibility. This is more relevant and I found mid market. In larger organizations, okay, there's look, there's lots of your accuracy, there's lots of rules on things you can and can't do. I've never heard that tent that's shouting is like a SALESPEEDP wants to get something change in his CR and it takes some six months and you got to get lined with the IT board, and you know, those of you that work in those companies...

...are feeling this pain right now, I guarantee. Well, look, the right tail solutions partner, super flexible and they can do that stuff in minutes and hours, not days and weeks. So speed, scale, focus, flexibility. And then the last two maybe are arguably the most important, in the last one especially, so it's capability in cost. So capability. Where I mean by capability? Well, you said as earlier. You got a big to do list, and may do you work for a company and maybe an indirect sales team or maybe an inside sales team or maybe a field sales team, and whatever is isn't your P for competency, and maybe you need to hire a company that's got the capability to do things in a faster, better, more efficient and perhaps cheaper way than you can. So you got to work. Look at that. But what do I really have the capability to do this or my better off firing a company? That's all they do all the time. Last ones cost tons of myths here and there are companies in the space that have perpetuated what I would say is some sham. Were getting points of view on the subject, and we get to this topic later. I'll talk about things to look out for. But it doesn't cost as much as you think it does. You don't have to hire somebody that you know gets paid sixtyzero and pay a hundred Fiftyzero for an outsource partner to do that. You know, look, if you really understand what the cost of hiring and employing somebody is, when you think about benefits and you know all the systems, all the things that you have to load into a cost, and you understand that and you work with the right sales outsource and partner who's transparent and what they're charging you and what they're paying their employee, you'll find them sects more horrible thing. I I love that. Those last two pieces. I'm going to touch you on capability a bit, and this is you know, I I'll I'll play into some of the the bureaucracy and specifically I mean I think this exist in any company, but certainly larger companies. It's scary to put your neck out right. It's scary to make a decision to bring in an outside partner. I think that, you know, anybody in sales knows often it's not the competition that you're competing with, its inaction. And so when I think about that, you know, if this isn't my core competency and I am putting my neck out to say I'm going to bring in an out external partner. How do I build the confidence to know that I am I'm capable or the right person to manage that? And and not to me is something that there's such a tension is. It's right why you go to an outsourced agency or partner or any of those in sales and marketing, but there's also this fear of God, what if I don't know enough to know if they're doing a good job, and so your tension. Yeah, you're totally right. It's kind of that fair and unknown fear of being exposed all those other otional drivers when you're sitting in that seat going on, my Gosh, I go tell my CEO, but I want to hire a partner or again, outsourcing partner, or I would suggest say as tound solutions partner. Right, just a hint. He might have really in that regard. But if I say town solutions partner, it's not as interesting. How these PODCASTS, if I say outsourcing, outsourcing, everybody has an opinion and wants to hear about it. But let's say a town solutions partner. So if you're sitting in those shoes, you need to look for a few things. You need to look for a partner that's transparent. What do I mean by transparent? Well, there's a lot of companies in this industry. For years it's hidden what it is they're charging and hidden what it is there your paying, and they're doing that for reason. They don't want you to know that they're paying fifteen or twenty percent a little market value or the folks that they're hiring in your behalf. So they're not going to tell you what they're paying. Of It's insane if you work for with a sales outsourcing partner and they will not tell you what they are paying your police that work on your behalf, you got the wrong partner. So the first thing you need to look for his transparency. So I know that the people that they're hiring them my behalf. I know the market wage for this type of role and they're going to tell you all these things and they're going to back it up with that is seventy five grand. Well, I'm paying them seventy five grand and...

I'm going to charge you, you know whatever, a hundred, twenty, hundred, thirty thousand dollars for that role. But you got to be transparent. You got to understand that, because the companies that are transparent, what they're doing is they are standing behind the value that they can bring to you. And if they're not willing to do that, they're hiring people less than market. They're getting talent that isn't the same kind of town that you could hire for the same fought if I told any sales leader on this phone I'm going to give you twenty percent more budget to hire talent. You think you could hire a better talent and twenty percent more dollars? Answers yes, solutely. So transparency. You got to understand what you're up against and you need a partner and it's going to be able to Tay. Here's what I'm paying and here's what I'm charging you, here's what's built up into my cost and here's what I'm making, and if I can offer you the value that makes sense, great, and if I can't, don't hire me. There's too many companies in this same street that hide them. I love that of saying you know lined in sentence right. It's not you don't want a partner that's not making money, that's not that that's not going to lead to a good partnership. I want my partners to have financial upside. I want it to make sense financially for me and I think that in general, and I'm sure every you know, every member of our community is seeing this, this transition. But the consumer, in this case, other be tob companies, are becoming so much more educated. The Access to information, transparency is just a function in general conversations like this, and so any of those that anybody that is competitive, I imagine that they are having to lead with transparency and to your point, if they're not, but like just stop conversations because it's not going to be it's not going to be a successful partnership. So I love that. That's that's our number one thing to look for. Yeah, and so what you said. Ironically, you would think that in part of the reason that our team at rocket power is offering the kind of solutions that were offering, and I talk about transparency on podcast all the time, is because this industry isn't there. This industry is hidden behind this idea that, look, you're going to pay a hundred twenty thousand dollars for a red you don't really know, because it's that's my Ip. That's information and I'm not going to tell you that's what you're hiring me to do. Co Employment and all this other BS. What they do is they're actually paying that person sixty grand and they're marketing it up to x, when the market value for that job seventy five and you're getting you're not getting the right town. So why I say transparency? See, it's it is critical and we are trying to disrupt the industry and move the entire industry that way because that's the way it should be. So what you're saying is that the the baseline today is likely not transparency, for it it's something around and if people are starting to hear hey, that's my Ip, that's my unique thing, push on that a bit or good start to talk to other partners, because you're saying that transparency actually can be the IP in itself, like right, like the ability to be to say this is honestly how we're making money, aligning incentives. That's how you can ensure the better partnership. Yeah, it's how you can ensure that you're getting the right town at the right market wages. It's how you can ensure that the relationship starts off in a way that's transparent, that's meantually beneficial. It starts off understanding. Like you said, you want your partner to make a little bit of money. You don't want to pay three acts what everybody else paying. But you're fine if you have a reasonable point of view like you do and you realize that you can't subspeed on your own and everybody has to win. They need to make a little money, and that's okay, but this idea that they're going to hide it, it's just ridiculous. So I'm telling you, if you're if you're listening to this and you're thinking about hiring an outsource sales partner and they won't tell you what the people that are working for you make, find another partner. simples. That the setibit and you you nail this and it is absolutely a hundred percent right. I'll call it risk tolerance. So if you're hiring a partner that actually knows your industry and actually has a level of expertise and knows what they're doing and wants to really work with you and really wants to align from a performance standpoint, they need to be willing to take a level of risk on hitting your mutually...

...defined KP as or sales goals. We're salespeople. We carry quotas were performance based. That's our world. How do you hire a partner that's not going to come along in that journey with you? And I'm not talking ten or twenty percent right, thirty, forty, fifty percent, in some cases more, depending on the situation. But you've got to be able to have a partner that's willing to take some risk and go along of that ride. And, by the way, they can't take that risk if they're not transparent in a lot of companies are going to try and tell you that they're going to charge you a hundred, twenty thousand dollars and I'll take thirty or forty percent risk, but what they don't tell you is they're paying that person fifth or sixty so the actually not taken any risk because if they don't hit your numbers, are going to get paid anymore. That doesn't work. So the second things is this idea of risk tolerance and aligning on your performance in finding a partner that's willing to sign up for a cop plan that's in sad and base like every other sales person on the point. Yeah, I think these are so critical and I think that you know, one of the things that, again, I'm speaking for my own experiences, I didn't even know what to ask. So that's why I love this conversation is we're helping at least give people a good baseline to go into these conversations of knowing what is a fair question ask, what is, you know, a fair model, and I sometimes think that just the lack of information when you're getting presented a deal that maybe doesn't make sense, the inability to know what you can ask sometimes just takes it off the table all together. And what you're telling me is that, no, these are all fair questions to ask and there are partners who will give you a fairy answer and if they're not, just not the right partner. Right it doesn't mean outsourcing is off the table, it's just that that may not be the one to go for them. And then so I you talk to me, you know, you and I were talking a bit before this, that there's a few other things to evaluate, and so we have transparency and risk tolerance anything else that once you decide, you know that, Hey, I am somebody that might be in the market for for outsourcing or talent management solutions. What are some of the other things that I need to other criteria to consider? Yeah, so there's two more. What is I'll call customization. So again this goes back to this. Again, this the stigma with outsourcing in the sales world and again, if we think about it as maybe a talent solutions partner or a sales partner kind of take some of that away. So this idea that you have to buy what it is they're selling and you have to buy all these things that you may not meet. What you need is a partner that's willing the customize a solution that gives you everything you want and nothing you don't. So that looks something like this. If you go into a situation and you say, I'm a PE partner and I love the idea of having a talent solutions partner from a sales point of view that can stand up a team and can get that team running, can hire can run it on their payroll for six to eight to twelve months and stabilize that organization and then is willing to hand that over to me. They'll do it. The same time, if you are a VP of sales or a cro for a company and you want day to day control of that team, but you don't. You talking to a sales outsourcing partner. He says, well, no, I'm only going to take it risk if I'm going to manage this and I'm only going to take risk on this deal if you're you my whole text act. Well, look, that's not what you want to buy. So you need to find a partner that's willing to customize a solution that makes sense for you. So in that scenario it's look, okay, I'll recruit, fine, I'll hire, I'll source the talent, I'll be a hundred percent transparent when I'm paying them, then what I'm charging you. I'll add value in these certain ways and you can manage them day to day and they can use your text act. And, by the way, I'll also take risk in that scenario, just like you are as a sales leader, because I know I'm having the best talent for you. And if I find that best talent and we've got that right partnership and I know you're going to manage those folks, if you win, I win. If you lose, eye loose this idea of a customized solution, not buying all...

...this stuff that you don't want or need, because that's the only way the sales outsourcing company is going to offer you solution. Insanity, and that's what a lot of the big companies in the space are doing. If you hire me and you want me to take any risk, I got a manage the day to day performance, you've got to buy a program manager, you've got to buy all this reporting analytic tools, you've got to use my entire attext aff and that adds costcost, costcost, cost or people all a sudden go. This isn't for me to find the right partner that's wills to customize a solution to you. I have a question on that. And so this is me playing some devil's advocate of sitting in in a buyers seat. Yeah, or no, rather the sellar seat of this is that sometimes you can have so as the outsource partner, there are things that you need your customer to do right, because if they don't, there's going to be failings and then, therefore your performance is at risk. And so I'm curious, maybe from your experience at rocket power or even using other partners or working with other, you know, companies that have done this, how do you make sure that your client, the the company that is hiring you to outsource, has some of the same assurances so that they're not failing your process or your method. And how do you balance that? Because I know from a buyer perspective, I do want you to have a point of view. I don't want it to be so rigid that I can't adapt it to my world, but that's why I'm hiring you. So what is that balance between that? Yeah, so good question. In here's how this typically looks in real life, whether I bought services from outsourcing companies or four years work for a consulting firm that advised other companies on whether they should do this or not. When they do it, who they are. So there needs to be a checklist, there needs to be a point of view from your partner that says, look, if we're going to work together and we're going to be successful and sale these seven, eight, hundred and ten, things have to be in place. Okay, I don't necessarily care if number two, six, eight and nine are provided by me or you, but they have to be there. So that's the point of view that the right partner is going to bring to you. For example, if I'm going to stand up a sales team, but I'm going to take risk and you don't have a CR I'm deployed and you're not using modern sales enablement productivity tools and you don't want me to provide them if you don't have them and they're not going to be there, that's not going to work. But look, if I've got a text tack and you've got them, why do you need to buy mine when I can just leverage the one you already have? That's already stood up, it's already integrating your systems. It's far easier for use. But I'll just integrate my team in with that. But the idea that we operate with that one completely doesn't work. So it's this idea of understanding what needs to be in place, and then the conversation becomes who is the right partner in this equation, me or you, the sales that's person, company or their client to fulfill that step in the process. That makes a lot of sense to me. So you're saying that the partner should have a point of view on what is an ideal process, what is going to be the recipe for success? But I don't care or I am open to who is providing it and maybe which platform, tool, resource, etcentor that is. Like there's flexibility in the WHO and the what, or the WHO in the how, but the what is maybe our recipe, for instance. Yeah, for one, hundred percent correct and get a lot of the companies have a very clear point of view and how they want to sell. They've adapted a certain sales process, whether it's challenger or one of the other Brazilian right processes. But that's fine, as long as there is one. If you don't have one, I'll bring one to you. A lot of companies in this space. They look you got to use my whole text act when the company's already bought all those things. And here's the other thing they're doing. You got to use my whole text at because I'm marking all that stuff up to x or one point five, not just to pass through cost. I'm using it as a profit center. Yeah, it's crazy and will and that's the what the right partner will do. You said another thing that's really important. The right partners. You got to be transparent and tell you, okay, you don't have a crun or you need this, we need that. No, problem. I'm going to go procure that. Here's what I'm going to pay. I'm going to pass that...

...through. Or if you want to go procure it, you get a better price than I game. Go ahead, I don't care. What we need is that solution. How you get it, who manage us? It doesn't matter as much. Okay, so we have for the people that are assessing a partner, transparency. They need to come to the table and say, here's what cost are, here's a way. You know, resourcing looks like we need risk tolerance. Are they willing to put a little skin in the game? Right to your point, at the end of the day, we all are working in sales and revenue, and so performance matters, customization. Have a point of view on what the process is, but flexibility and who's providing it or how we might accomplish that. What are anything else that we need to consider from from a sales perspective or from an outsourcing perspective of when I'm assessing a partner? Yeah, so those three things you mentioned a hundred percent agree with. The last one is we all call the buying experience, and they really are related to those first three. First three things. So if you're going to work with as sales partner of talent sales, talent solutions partner and outsource and partner, whatever you want to call it, you've got to make sure that when you're interacting with those folks that they have a level of expertise, they have a level of point of view, because they're going to be pretty close to you and they're going to be connected with you, and if they start off the relationship in a way that isn't transparent, if they're trying to convince you to buy a bunch of things that you don't necessarily we need and they're not willing to sign up for some level of risk that buying experiences you're going to have may not make sense and it's going to start off contentious, it's going to start off in a way that you're just handing over kind of this black hole. It just creates this environment that, look, it may work for thirty or sixty or ninety days, but then you're going to figure out that you're your team's not getting paid what they should, you're paying way too much. You're going to figure out that you're you're buying all the stuff that you don't need and it's going to fail over time. So it's really those first three things that transparencies. So you need to know what your people are getting paid period. You need to have some level of customization. Right, you'd have that level of risk tolerance, and then that creates the buying experience that actually makes working with the right partner makes sense. I think that this is probably one of the most challenging sales to be done out there because you're selling to people who sell, and that to me is always like right, like a good salesperson, they will appreciate a good sale and a good buying experience. Like my husband jokes like I'm a Sucker, like if there's a good person that's working for it, I'm like, yes, I'm going to give you this because you're doing everything right. On the flip side, when I experience a bad one, I'm the first person to be like, let me, let me inform you why this did not work, some constructive criticism. It drives him nuts, but I love the game. So I think that you know, for being in this role, to buying experience, it's kind of like how you do one thing is how you do everything right. Like if I'm not transparent, at the onset, then I certainly am not going to be transparent. When money is exchanging hands like that. Is going to only get that. The gap is only going to get wider. So I really appreciate the fact that this sale, it's should be all the things that we're bringing in any of our businesses, but it matters even more because of who the customer is in this sale. Yeah, you're right in look, the other thing that you have to realize it in this space is because this is a bit of a contentious topic. You use the word outsourcing and everybody has a perception, often times that positive right VP of sales, you know, which usually is the mobilizer in this sale, but very rarely can actually get this deal down in their own they got to get it through the CEO, the CFO and others. Phone. Listen to this, you're on this call. There's certainly ways to do that. But because they have to do that, to have a partner of this transparence, transparent and customizes and those other things I mentioned is really important because again, you're fighting a bit of an uphill battle, just as this idea alone, and you got to have a partner that's willing to go along with that journey with you and do all those things that you'd expect that you be shot and...

...this industry, transparency especially to just really rare. I I think that you're so spot on there and I almost think about this partner should be truly an extension of your team, right. They need to be in the trenches with you, helping sell that CEO, helping bring the CFO along, and I would imagine you correct me if I'm wrong, but as the sales leader, revenue leader, whoever is bringing in this partner, it's probably helpful for you to bring other parts of the organization into some of these conversations to help them experience, have that buying experience. That builds trust, builds confidence and allow allowed the the outsourced, and I give my air quotes here, that partner, to feel integrated into the company. I imagine that those are such important steps in the the actual sales process. Yeah, you're right, definitely right. I mean, if you're thinking about this the right way, that that sales camel and partner, that outsourcing solutions provider, again, however you want to talk about it, or whatever you want to call it, they're going to be representing your brand when they go and sell your product or service to your consumer, of that company that's buying your stuff isn't going to know that this company is not you. I mean they carry your email, they carry your business cards, they go to market as if they're used. So there's does need to be that type partnership. There does need to do that connection and I found if they sales VP is thinking about this earlier, that they have the conversation with the right partner that earlier, that they work with that partner to sell all these myths that we talked about today with their other partners in the organization, the better out they're going to be. Perfect. So I we've covered a lot of ground here and I think the thing I've loved most about the session is that there are such tangible things. So the first if I want to play some things back, feel free to add here. For the first is if I'm somebody that's responsible for growth right and said an organization that could be a founder, could be ahead of sales, could be a business unit leader, whatever that might be, there are ways to self assessed. First and outsourcing may have felt off limits to you because it's such a it can be such a polarizing term, and so really what you need to think about is, am I someone or is my business in a point where I need speed, scale, focus, flexibility, capability or cost considerations? Are those good components in which I need to scale and I need to do that either fast I need to do it with people. Can I bring them on internally? Is My existing team focus do that or they going to go sell existing solutions? Do I need flexibility because I don't really know what I'm getting into? Do I have capability in house and can I financially make it make sense? So these are things to self assess. And then the second piece of it is that you say, yeah, like I could use a talent management partner. will say that we're not even going to say outsore worst because the murderer. There you go, I'm going to use that. Talent management will use that one too. Sure, yeah, we are, we are. We are on a quest to dispel outsource saying. And then the second pieces. You're going to go out into the market. You may be talking to a partner like a rocket power and revenue collective members hit Ted up. I'm sure he'd be happy to be a resource here, but when you're looking at it, there's four things to start asking yourself if your partners doing. Are they being transparent? Do they have risk tolerance? Are they willing to customize? And how is the buying experience? Because I guarantee your by experience is probably similar to how your customers is going to be. So so think about that. Like you, this is the biggest sale of all and if they can get past your own revenue leader in house and bringing other members along, then they could be worth that trial. Anything you want to add their type now, I mean you mailed it. Speed, scale, focus, flexibility, capability, costs. Then you got to think about transparency, risk tolerance, customization and what's that buying experience? And what I tell anybody that's listening, if you know, if you again, obviously we offer some of these services, but sure commercial. What I've been intending to do here is is just spelled this in an industry and help people understand that there...

...are companies disrupting the way that it's been done. You know, we think we're one of the leaders, that we're not one of the only ones, and it may make sense for you, you know, as a revenant collective member, to look at other partners or not look at the solution at all. Happy to help. Give me a call. I can walk you through if this makes sense. I'll be the first one to tell you if it doesn't and if it does, give you some options that have you to help. I think so. My past role, we were we were creating a category or dispelling a category. So, similar to like you're saying, ours was in the innovation space, and I'm going to add outsourcing to this because I normally say innovation and diversity are the most bastardized terms. We're going to grow up forced in there too. Write like birthment of that today and be whole another doctors. Everybody talks about it, but very few people can actually want articulate it and to defend it or show how they're doing it. So I love that we're putting outsourced in here too, because outsourcing is really it's I have a need and is there a partner that allows me to get there in a better or faster way? That's really the essence of it. And then you could people challenge. There's lots of different ways to do that. This is one tool that you can do that with. In a lot of circumstances are going to make great sense and some of it isn't, but you're just trying to solve people talent own just that simple. I love the simplicity of it. That's my goal with this, you know, this podcast, is how do we just get down to the nitty gritty? How do we make it tangible? And my hope is that after let's see how long we've been talking, our forty minutes together, that our members in this community gets to say, you know, hey, this may be worth something to look into. So I say a big thank you for joining us today and helping just educate our audience, helping level them up in their perspectives and and knowledge of what this world is. And I would say to our community members, especially those that might be on slack, feel free to drop Ted a line, drop me a line. I'm happy to connect and thank you, Ted, for forgiving first making sure that you know our people have the best resources available. This has been fun. Yeah, I really enjoyed it and I would say this isn't me given first. I've got off a lot from this community. I've watched a ton of these podcasts, I've learned a lot, I've reached out and slack people have helped me over the last nine or ten months. So hopefully I can give back a little bit. But thank you and thanks for the community and I look forward to connecting with more folks. So had a ton of fun and hopefully we dispelled a few myths today. I think we did. I know for myself I learned all right, revenue collective. This is Casey, like Gordon, I just sat down. What's Ted Really Cowski, and we are signing off. We'll see you next week. Take care. All Right, folks, that episode maybe my favorite one I've done yet. I loved it because it's something I've personally dealt with. Health, sourcing, sales and knowing when is the right time, who is the right partner? Am I the right sized company? These are all things I'm grappled with and I hope for those of you that are sitting in revenue sales leadership rules that today gave you some tangible ways that you can move this forward. Thank you, Ted. It was awesome. All right, signing off with the big thank you to our sponsor send Oso. They deliver modern direct mail, personalized gifts and other physical impressions that make your outreach more personal. I'm Casey, like Boardon your host and this is the revenue collective podcast. See you next week.

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