The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 21: Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

Hi and welcome to the revenue collectivepodcast. My Name Is Casey let Gordon and I'm your host. Today Ihave the opportunity to sit down with Ted gruly Cowski, the vice president atrocket power. Ted is one of our members from Atlanta and we're going tobe talking about fact or fiction outsourcing sales. Our goal from today's conversation is goingto be to dispel some myths and rumors about what it is to reallyoutsource your sales process or outsource your sales function. It's going to be insightsinto a hidden industry, more context into why people do it, when itworks when it doesn't. Ted has some tangible things to offer to the warlisteners around. How do you know if outsourcing is right for you, andthen how do you actually assess a partner? I'm super grateful for Ted. Hebrings so much experience, authenticity and, honestly, tangibility to something that canfeel a little big and a little scary. So tune in today andlet's get started. Before we do, I want to give a big shoutout to our sponsor, send Oso. Sindoso is the leading sending platform.It's the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new waysto engage at strategic point throughout the customer journey. By connecting digital and physicalstrategies, companies can engage, acquire and retain customers easier than ever before.All right, thank you. Send Oso on, Casey, like Gordon,and let's jump in with Ted. Hello and welcome today's revenue collective podcast.My Name Is Casey, let Gordon, and I'm your host. Today Ihave the chance to sit down with a fellow Atlanta member, Ted Guly Cowski. Ted Is the vice president at rocket power and it's going to be chattingwith me today about outsourcing sales, fact or fiction. Little highlight to thisis it's insights into a hidden industry, why people do it, when itworks, when it doesn't, what to look out for and dispelling common myths. I'm excited to sit down and talk about this because, candidly, itwas something I dealt with in my last role on my way out, andI have some questions. So, Ted, welcome. Hey, Casey, thanksglad to be here before to having a funch at me. To metoo. So Ted, always like to start off by just letting our gueststell of the audience a little bit about themselves. Give me a hit onwhat is rocket power? What is your role there and and maybe some careerhighlights before you you landed in this new role. Yeah, sure, Casey. I spent twenty years and go to market sales and business leadership roles prettymuch always focused on developing strategies and building teams to drive revenue growth. Sorocket power is a forbestop one hundred start up and we offer disruptive talent solution. So, if I'm sitting on this podcast or what the hell does thatmean? So it means we do three things. We help companies find theabsolute best talent, build the exact solutions they're looking for and then run thevery best teams in the world, where a bunch of x operators that reallyare offering the thing things that when we sat in the shoes, like alot of Redmen, collective members, is BEP of sales and chief people officersof other things. We're offering the solutions that we wanted to buy but couldn'tget. I love that so much. I love because I have been oneof those talent had those talent needs, and you're sitting there so often andjust like you said, you're trying to articulate to an outsource partner or toa third party, especially by the time you need talent, you're usually alreadyhurting. Right. Nobody goes out proactively and says I need all of thisstuff. They come to you when they're already in a moment of crisis.And so for you all to bring the expertise of been there done that,I can imagine accelerates and brings a lot more value than your traditional partner.Yeah, it does. I mean it's interesting when we sit down with folksand we actually have the conversation and says, not only have I work for anoutsourcing company, you know, most of my career, but I've actuallysat in BPA sales shoes and I've dealt with a lot of the challenge thatthey've dealt with in the questions. And many years ago I didn't know thisindustry existed either. And when people hear outsourcing and they think God knows what, right, and most of those really...

...can be a turnoff. Right,like it sounds whether it maybe, it sounds expensive, it sounds lower quality, it sounds like a stop gap, like it doesn't necessarily ring the bestI don't perception. So what are your what are your thoughts there? YourM percent right? I mean it doesn't. So if you're sitting here listening tothis and either the word outsourcing the last thing you think about a salesyou think about a really awful customer experience with your cred a card company orcalling into you know one of your cable companies. Will leave brands out ofthis and you know you're who they we're looking at. They know who theyare, they know when they are. You're thinking, just like you said, low quality and you know, why would I do this? And Ohman, if I run into company and I'm a founder of a startup,while I'm supposed to know us, Soll you my God, I'm not goingto everybody else cell for me. So it's this kind of this bastardized termin the sales world that people just don't understand. But when they hear ofall the companies that actually outsource different components of their sales dragy, they goto market strategy, oftentimes they're shot. I love that. Not to me, is what today is all about. It's dispelling the myths and the thingthat I found with this community and tell me. You know your experience,I think you and I joined about the same time earlier in two thousand andtwenty, is that it's been helpful for me to pull back the curtain onsome things that maybe I've heard about or tangentially know, but I haven't hada chance to really dig in just because of my own experiences. So whenwe talk about, you know, outsourcing sales, let's start with first.I personally, maybe this is bias, I wass think big company will outsourcesales right like they're super big, they need scale and they're trying to getbutts and seats. Tell me, what are the considerations of saying self selectingto be a company that should consider outsourcing? So, Caz, you're right,a lot of big companies do think about outsourcing sales, but also alot of companies that are a hundred folks d see back, be back,just got a big check, or try and figure out how to drive growthor trying to figure out, you know, how do I develop different parts inlike go to markets, draggy, how do I try things? Sothere's a lot of reasons that companies outsource sales. But before we think aboutwhy companies do it, maybe we spend a second to finding like what itis, because that's really it's for. Somebody says should I do it ornot? It's like, okay, well, what is outsourcing sales actually mean?And if I'm sitting as a VP of sales in a small company orbig company, well, what are my options? If you think that wouldhelp, I love it. Let's do that. Tied, your the experthere, so take us away. All right, a couple things. Sooutsourcing sales doesn't mean that you need to hand your entire sales team off toanother company. It doesn't even mean that you need to hire or handoff themanagement, day to day responsibility your sales teams another company. A lot ofcompanies in this space as perpetuated this myth that if you're going to use anoutsource and sales teams, that you have to give up the entire amount ofcontrol and you have to do it their way and you have to buy allthese things that you may not want. Well, modern companies in this spaceare offering solutions that allow you to really honestly do whatever you want. Solet's say that you're a sales leader at a SASS company and you're looking todrive growth and you need a dozen people to perhaps put on an indirect channelbecause you're a hundred percent direct focus, or your growing like crazy and youneed somebody to handle upsell across cell, or you need an inside sales teambecause you're sitting in San Francisco and you don't want to Fay San Francisco pricesand you'd rather be Someonello. And the right outsource sales provider can help yourecruit the talent, they can help you find the talent, they can payroll that talent if they want, if you want, they can provide youthe technology. So the entire sales are marketing text deck. If you wantthem to use yours, they can. Again, this is the right salesoutsource and providers. Why the space? That won't do that and that's themyth. The other thing that companies will do is if you want to managethose folks but they work for someone else. There's a lot of reasons why youdo that. A lot of financial reasons and a lot of things thatDCS can currents find really attractive about this...

...and do all those things. Youcan have people to demand en we JEN appointment settings. You can have folksto high end enterprise sales, you know, where they're selling deals that are amillion dollar plus to six eight months sale cycles. Companies are using outsourceproviders or talent to loopings providers to do all those things. So talk tome about like you mentioned vcmp backed and that to me is always an interestingspace because I've done some work in that space and so much of why peopleinvest in get those dollars is the team. And so I want to understand becausewhen you told me that, I'm surprised because my original thought is,well, they're going to want it in house, right, they're going towant the people to be homegrown, they're going to want them to eat,breathe. Know the solution. How have you seen it actually be a valueadd to those partners? Sure? So That's another myth, that they canbe homegrown and they can't be internal and the companies can't take them over.Again, that's the problem with the leg you see companies in this space.They have convinced sales leaders all over the ecosystem that they can only do thingsin certain way. It's just not true. So what I would tell you is, if you're a talent partner to VC fund you're an operating partner tope company and you just wrote a big check and you just acquired a componentof a let's call it a fast ground's ass company, and their core competencyis their product, it's engineering, it's technical acumen, it's all those things. Maybe their core competency is in sales and you just stroke the huge checkand those companies need maybe they want to shift their entire go to market modelthe inside sales from fields. That sounds familiar in the last six months formunch companies and done that. The company don't have a clue how to dothat. So the right outsource sales or talent solutions partner will do this.They'll help you really define what the talent is that you need, they'll helpyou find that talent, they'll hire that talent that give you stood up andrunning and from the beginning they will design that solution to hand that entire teamover to you in either nine months or twelve months. And by the timethat that team's ready and they've done, quote unquote, all the hard work, that may not be that company's core competency and they learn how to dothat together. That company, that pe or VC back company can take thatwhole team over and they are internal and they transfer the whole organization. Sothe VC partner looks at this and says, you can focus on all those thingsyou're good at. I'm going to give you the money, I'm goingto hire somebody that's really good at standing up and building sales teams, andyou're right. Wall term, they may want those employees on their pay.Well, they may want those voises internal gone will great, you can getthat when it makes sense. So yeah, it's this idea that people think theycan't, but they really can the right part and so right partner thatis so important to me here is so one of the things that it again, I'm speaking for my own anecdotal experience, you know you share some of yours, is that early stage companies and well, you know we're not right. Anybody is always resource trapped. I think that's just the nature of beingin business. You always feel like there's more to do the maybe hands todo it, but especially in those early stages, and this was my experience, is that I knew I could use an outsource partner but I felt likethe burden of on boarding them was so great. I had to wait forthis perfect moment in time. Right, I'm going to get this done,I'm going to get my marketing materials ready, I'm going to give my persona's builtout, whatever it is, until I can bring them on. Andby the time I actually brought that partner on, I was ready to kickmyself because I wish I had done it six, nine, twelve months earlier, because they brought so much sophistication and experience that they probably could have helpedme do those things faster and better or maybe even take it over some ofthat. So talk to me about right partner and one is the right timeto maybe engage, because I just am would know my own experience. Isaid, wow, I really think I limited my growth if I had justmoved a little bit faster and and not been so burdened by my own todo list. Yeah, we all have to do list, for sure,and ours are growing every single days, you can imagine. So if you'rea VP of sales or you're a founder,...

...or you know you're a small companyor, frankly, if you're an SPP or an executive director at abig company, there's really six things you need to think about and how toevaluate if outsourcing sales. And again you got to remember how you to findoutsourcing sales in my building. And you think, yeah, the audience cansee but you just gave their quotes. So are quote missing sales? Becausethis is important, right. We're dispelling myths here. I like part ofthe yeah, case, you and I can see each other, everybody,so you know, unfortunately you don't have to see me talk for an hour, but she can. So I with the air quotes. So what you'resix reasis. So you mentioned speed. So the first thing to speak.If you have to hire a dozen folks and you're a small company and you'vegot a million other things to do, how hard is that going to befor you to do? You have a whole bunch of recruiters? Can youeven go through the interview to hire a dozen folks? Maybe you need toscreen a hundred. Do you have the right job descriptions? Do you havethe right job trials? Do you want to use behavioral analytic tools? Youdo you have the right ats? There's a hundred things to think about.So if you work with the right sales partners, talent solutions partner, ifwe want to go away from the word outsourcing for a second. That companycould hire twelve people and haven't working for you and sixty days you know problem. That company could hire a hundred people and have them working for you inthe sixty eight no problem. So think about it from a speed point ofview. You really got to ask your question yourself. This question, howquickly can I move? Second one, scale. You want to scale up. Partner can help you do that. Here's the other thing. If whateveryou're trying to do doesn't work for whatever reason, if you're trying to takea swing, and it may be a different go to marcus drag you,maybe a different channel, maybe you're trying to launch a different product. Whateverit is, it works really well, that partner can help you scale out. But if it doesn't work, you can make a phone call be outof that in thirty days. And I have to deal with all the thingsthat come with that, and that's really important, especially for those of youthat work for public companies. There's a lot involved with letting people go andeverything associated. Yeah, I don't want to do that's a part I hadn'treally thought about. It is like what if it goes wrong? And that'sa risk anytime you bring someone new to the organization, right, those firstninety days, sixty days or so telling, and so the ability to have asingle partner that could help either, you know, scale up or scaledown. That's pretty powerful and I know that any revenue leaders founders, especiallyin early stage, that is one of the that's one of the most costlyboth from time and money in perspective. So I love that point and Ihadn't thought about that prior if it goes wrong, yeah, I mean thecost of a missire right. You know, I could have a whole nother podcastand it totally for sure. So you think speed, you think scaleand then we'll go with to others. So we got focus. So youmentioned that huge to do list that you have. Well, if you havea million other things to do and you're trying to start something new or you'retrying to again, I go back to your trying to perhaps launch a newproduct or pursue a new channel or a new component, you go to marketstrategy. Or if you're in a big company and you're pulled a thousand differentways and perhaps if you start this team or your will see your product managerto company and you want the existing sales team to sell some new product orservice when you know they're going to sell the things that are in their basketright now that they've always sold, they make their money out, they're probablygoing to ignore with oneself. They're not going to focus on it. Well, look, if you hire a talent solutions partner and outsourcing partner from asales point to do, they're going to focus a hundred percent on what youwant them to focus, laser focused on your mission and what you want toget done. So there's a level of focus you can get with the rightpartner that you can't get anywhere else. The other things flexibility. This ismore relevant and I found mid market. In larger organizations, okay, there'slook, there's lots of your accuracy, there's lots of rules on things youcan and can't do. I've never heard that tent that's shouting is like aSALESPEEDP wants to get something change in his CR and it takes some six monthsand you got to get lined with the IT board, and you know,those of you that work in those companies...

...are feeling this pain right now,I guarantee. Well, look, the right tail solutions partner, super flexibleand they can do that stuff in minutes and hours, not days and weeks. So speed, scale, focus, flexibility. And then the last twomaybe are arguably the most important, in the last one especially, so it'scapability in cost. So capability. Where I mean by capability? Well,you said as earlier. You got a big to do list, and maydo you work for a company and maybe an indirect sales team or maybe aninside sales team or maybe a field sales team, and whatever is isn't yourP for competency, and maybe you need to hire a company that's got thecapability to do things in a faster, better, more efficient and perhaps cheaperway than you can. So you got to work. Look at that.But what do I really have the capability to do this or my better offfiring a company? That's all they do all the time. Last ones costtons of myths here and there are companies in the space that have perpetuated whatI would say is some sham. Were getting points of view on the subject, and we get to this topic later. I'll talk about things to look outfor. But it doesn't cost as much as you think it does.You don't have to hire somebody that you know gets paid sixtyzero and pay ahundred Fiftyzero for an outsource partner to do that. You know, look,if you really understand what the cost of hiring and employing somebody is, whenyou think about benefits and you know all the systems, all the things thatyou have to load into a cost, and you understand that and you workwith the right sales outsource and partner who's transparent and what they're charging you andwhat they're paying their employee, you'll find them sects more horrible thing. II love that. Those last two pieces. I'm going to touch you on capabilitya bit, and this is you know, I I'll I'll play intosome of the the bureaucracy and specifically I mean I think this exist in anycompany, but certainly larger companies. It's scary to put your neck out right. It's scary to make a decision to bring in an outside partner. Ithink that, you know, anybody in sales knows often it's not the competitionthat you're competing with, its inaction. And so when I think about that, you know, if this isn't my core competency and I am putting myneck out to say I'm going to bring in an out external partner. Howdo I build the confidence to know that I am I'm capable or the rightperson to manage that? And and not to me is something that there's sucha tension is. It's right why you go to an outsourced agency or partneror any of those in sales and marketing, but there's also this fear of God, what if I don't know enough to know if they're doing a goodjob, and so your tension. Yeah, you're totally right. It's kind ofthat fair and unknown fear of being exposed all those other otional drivers whenyou're sitting in that seat going on, my Gosh, I go tell myCEO, but I want to hire a partner or again, outsourcing partner,or I would suggest say as tound solutions partner. Right, just a hint. He might have really in that regard. But if I say town solutions partner, it's not as interesting. How these PODCASTS, if I say outsourcing, outsourcing, everybody has an opinion and wants to hear about it. Butlet's say a town solutions partner. So if you're sitting in those shoes,you need to look for a few things. You need to look for a partnerthat's transparent. What do I mean by transparent? Well, there's alot of companies in this industry. For years it's hidden what it is they'recharging and hidden what it is there your paying, and they're doing that forreason. They don't want you to know that they're paying fifteen or twenty percenta little market value or the folks that they're hiring in your behalf. Sothey're not going to tell you what they're paying. Of It's insane if youwork for with a sales outsourcing partner and they will not tell you what theyare paying your police that work on your behalf, you got the wrong partner. So the first thing you need to look for his transparency. So Iknow that the people that they're hiring them my behalf. I know the marketwage for this type of role and they're going to tell you all these thingsand they're going to back it up with that is seventy five grand. Well, I'm paying them seventy five grand and...

I'm going to charge you, youknow whatever, a hundred, twenty, hundred, thirty thousand dollars for thatrole. But you got to be transparent. You got to understand that, becausethe companies that are transparent, what they're doing is they are standing behindthe value that they can bring to you. And if they're not willing to dothat, they're hiring people less than market. They're getting talent that isn'tthe same kind of town that you could hire for the same fought if Itold any sales leader on this phone I'm going to give you twenty percent morebudget to hire talent. You think you could hire a better talent and twentypercent more dollars? Answers yes, solutely. So transparency. You got to understandwhat you're up against and you need a partner and it's going to beable to Tay. Here's what I'm paying and here's what I'm charging you,here's what's built up into my cost and here's what I'm making, and ifI can offer you the value that makes sense, great, and if Ican't, don't hire me. There's too many companies in this same street thathide them. I love that of saying you know lined in sentence right.It's not you don't want a partner that's not making money, that's not thatthat's not going to lead to a good partnership. I want my partners tohave financial upside. I want it to make sense financially for me and Ithink that in general, and I'm sure every you know, every member ofour community is seeing this, this transition. But the consumer, in this case, other be tob companies, are becoming so much more educated. TheAccess to information, transparency is just a function in general conversations like this,and so any of those that anybody that is competitive, I imagine that theyare having to lead with transparency and to your point, if they're not,but like just stop conversations because it's not going to be it's not going tobe a successful partnership. So I love that. That's that's our number onething to look for. Yeah, and so what you said. Ironically,you would think that in part of the reason that our team at rocket poweris offering the kind of solutions that were offering, and I talk about transparencyon podcast all the time, is because this industry isn't there. This industryis hidden behind this idea that, look, you're going to pay a hundred twentythousand dollars for a red you don't really know, because it's that's myIp. That's information and I'm not going to tell you that's what you're hiringme to do. Co Employment and all this other BS. What they dois they're actually paying that person sixty grand and they're marketing it up to x, when the market value for that job seventy five and you're getting you're notgetting the right town. So why I say transparency? See, it's itis critical and we are trying to disrupt the industry and move the entire industrythat way because that's the way it should be. So what you're saying isthat the the baseline today is likely not transparency, for it it's something aroundand if people are starting to hear hey, that's my Ip, that's my uniquething, push on that a bit or good start to talk to otherpartners, because you're saying that transparency actually can be the IP in itself,like right, like the ability to be to say this is honestly how we'remaking money, aligning incentives. That's how you can ensure the better partnership.Yeah, it's how you can ensure that you're getting the right town at theright market wages. It's how you can ensure that the relationship starts off ina way that's transparent, that's meantually beneficial. It starts off understanding. Like yousaid, you want your partner to make a little bit of money.You don't want to pay three acts what everybody else paying. But you're fineif you have a reasonable point of view like you do and you realize thatyou can't subspeed on your own and everybody has to win. They need tomake a little money, and that's okay, but this idea that they're going tohide it, it's just ridiculous. So I'm telling you, if you'reif you're listening to this and you're thinking about hiring an outsource sales partner andthey won't tell you what the people that are working for you make, findanother partner. simples. That the setibit and you you nail this and itis absolutely a hundred percent right. I'll call it risk tolerance. So ifyou're hiring a partner that actually knows your industry and actually has a level ofexpertise and knows what they're doing and wants to really work with you and reallywants to align from a performance standpoint, they need to be willing to takea level of risk on hitting your mutually...

...defined KP as or sales goals.We're salespeople. We carry quotas were performance based. That's our world. Howdo you hire a partner that's not going to come along in that journey withyou? And I'm not talking ten or twenty percent right, thirty, forty, fifty percent, in some cases more, depending on the situation. But you'vegot to be able to have a partner that's willing to take some riskand go along of that ride. And, by the way, they can't takethat risk if they're not transparent in a lot of companies are going totry and tell you that they're going to charge you a hundred, twenty thousanddollars and I'll take thirty or forty percent risk, but what they don't tellyou is they're paying that person fifth or sixty so the actually not taken anyrisk because if they don't hit your numbers, are going to get paid anymore.That doesn't work. So the second things is this idea of risk toleranceand aligning on your performance in finding a partner that's willing to sign up fora cop plan that's in sad and base like every other sales person on thepoint. Yeah, I think these are so critical and I think that youknow, one of the things that, again, I'm speaking for my ownexperiences, I didn't even know what to ask. So that's why I lovethis conversation is we're helping at least give people a good baseline to go intothese conversations of knowing what is a fair question ask, what is, youknow, a fair model, and I sometimes think that just the lack ofinformation when you're getting presented a deal that maybe doesn't make sense, the inabilityto know what you can ask sometimes just takes it off the table all together. And what you're telling me is that, no, these are all fair questionsto ask and there are partners who will give you a fairy answer andif they're not, just not the right partner. Right it doesn't mean outsourcingis off the table, it's just that that may not be the one togo for them. And then so I you talk to me, you know, you and I were talking a bit before this, that there's a fewother things to evaluate, and so we have transparency and risk tolerance anything elsethat once you decide, you know that, Hey, I am somebody that mightbe in the market for for outsourcing or talent management solutions. What aresome of the other things that I need to other criteria to consider? Yeah, so there's two more. What is I'll call customization. So again thisgoes back to this. Again, this the stigma with outsourcing in the salesworld and again, if we think about it as maybe a talent solutions partneror a sales partner kind of take some of that away. So this ideathat you have to buy what it is they're selling and you have to buyall these things that you may not meet. What you need is a partner that'swilling the customize a solution that gives you everything you want and nothing youdon't. So that looks something like this. If you go into a situation andyou say, I'm a PE partner and I love the idea of havinga talent solutions partner from a sales point of view that can stand up ateam and can get that team running, can hire can run it on theirpayroll for six to eight to twelve months and stabilize that organization and then iswilling to hand that over to me. They'll do it. The same time, if you are a VP of sales or a cro for a company andyou want day to day control of that team, but you don't. Youtalking to a sales outsourcing partner. He says, well, no, I'monly going to take it risk if I'm going to manage this and I'm onlygoing to take risk on this deal if you're you my whole text act.Well, look, that's not what you want to buy. So you needto find a partner that's willing to customize a solution that makes sense for you. So in that scenario it's look, okay, I'll recruit, fine,I'll hire, I'll source the talent, I'll be a hundred percent transparent whenI'm paying them, then what I'm charging you. I'll add value in thesecertain ways and you can manage them day to day and they can use yourtext act. And, by the way, I'll also take risk in that scenario, just like you are as a sales leader, because I know I'mhaving the best talent for you. And if I find that best talent andwe've got that right partnership and I know you're going to manage those folks,if you win, I win. If you lose, eye loose this ideaof a customized solution, not buying all...

...this stuff that you don't want orneed, because that's the only way the sales outsourcing company is going to offeryou solution. Insanity, and that's what a lot of the big companies inthe space are doing. If you hire me and you want me to takeany risk, I got a manage the day to day performance, you've gotto buy a program manager, you've got to buy all this reporting analytic tools, you've got to use my entire attext aff and that adds costcost, costcost, cost or people all a sudden go. This isn't for me to find theright partner that's wills to customize a solution to you. I have aquestion on that. And so this is me playing some devil's advocate of sittingin in a buyers seat. Yeah, or no, rather the sellar seatof this is that sometimes you can have so as the outsource partner, thereare things that you need your customer to do right, because if they don't, there's going to be failings and then, therefore your performance is at risk.And so I'm curious, maybe from your experience at rocket power or evenusing other partners or working with other, you know, companies that have donethis, how do you make sure that your client, the the company thatis hiring you to outsource, has some of the same assurances so that they'renot failing your process or your method. And how do you balance that?Because I know from a buyer perspective, I do want you to have apoint of view. I don't want it to be so rigid that I can'tadapt it to my world, but that's why I'm hiring you. So whatis that balance between that? Yeah, so good question. In here's howthis typically looks in real life, whether I bought services from outsourcing companies orfour years work for a consulting firm that advised other companies on whether they shoulddo this or not. When they do it, who they are. Sothere needs to be a checklist, there needs to be a point of viewfrom your partner that says, look, if we're going to work together andwe're going to be successful and sale these seven, eight, hundred and ten, things have to be in place. Okay, I don't necessarily care ifnumber two, six, eight and nine are provided by me or you,but they have to be there. So that's the point of view that theright partner is going to bring to you. For example, if I'm going tostand up a sales team, but I'm going to take risk and youdon't have a CR I'm deployed and you're not using modern sales enablement productivity toolsand you don't want me to provide them if you don't have them and they'renot going to be there, that's not going to work. But look,if I've got a text tack and you've got them, why do you needto buy mine when I can just leverage the one you already have? That'salready stood up, it's already integrating your systems. It's far easier for use. But I'll just integrate my team in with that. But the idea thatwe operate with that one completely doesn't work. So it's this idea of understanding whatneeds to be in place, and then the conversation becomes who is theright partner in this equation, me or you, the sales that's person,company or their client to fulfill that step in the process. That makes alot of sense to me. So you're saying that the partner should have apoint of view on what is an ideal process, what is going to bethe recipe for success? But I don't care or I am open to whois providing it and maybe which platform, tool, resource, etcentor that is. Like there's flexibility in the WHO and the what, or the WHO inthe how, but the what is maybe our recipe, for instance. Yeah, for one, hundred percent correct and get a lot of the companies havea very clear point of view and how they want to sell. They've adapteda certain sales process, whether it's challenger or one of the other Brazilian rightprocesses. But that's fine, as long as there is one. If youdon't have one, I'll bring one to you. A lot of companies inthis space. They look you got to use my whole text act when thecompany's already bought all those things. And here's the other thing they're doing.You got to use my whole text at because I'm marking all that stuff upto x or one point five, not just to pass through cost. I'musing it as a profit center. Yeah, it's crazy and will and that's thewhat the right partner will do. You said another thing that's really important. The right partners. You got to be transparent and tell you, okay, you don't have a crun or you need this, we need that.No, problem. I'm going to go procure that. Here's what I'm goingto pay. I'm going to pass that...

...through. Or if you want togo procure it, you get a better price than I game. Go ahead, I don't care. What we need is that solution. How you getit, who manage us? It doesn't matter as much. Okay, sowe have for the people that are assessing a partner, transparency. They needto come to the table and say, here's what cost are, here's away. You know, resourcing looks like we need risk tolerance. Are theywilling to put a little skin in the game? Right to your point,at the end of the day, we all are working in sales and revenue, and so performance matters, customization. Have a point of view on whatthe process is, but flexibility and who's providing it or how we might accomplishthat. What are anything else that we need to consider from from a salesperspective or from an outsourcing perspective of when I'm assessing a partner? Yeah,so those three things you mentioned a hundred percent agree with. The last oneis we all call the buying experience, and they really are related to thosefirst three. First three things. So if you're going to work with assales partner of talent sales, talent solutions partner and outsource and partner, whateveryou want to call it, you've got to make sure that when you're interactingwith those folks that they have a level of expertise, they have a levelof point of view, because they're going to be pretty close to you andthey're going to be connected with you, and if they start off the relationshipin a way that isn't transparent, if they're trying to convince you to buya bunch of things that you don't necessarily we need and they're not willing tosign up for some level of risk that buying experiences you're going to have maynot make sense and it's going to start off contentious, it's going to startoff in a way that you're just handing over kind of this black hole.It just creates this environment that, look, it may work for thirty or sixtyor ninety days, but then you're going to figure out that you're yourteam's not getting paid what they should, you're paying way too much. You'regoing to figure out that you're you're buying all the stuff that you don't needand it's going to fail over time. So it's really those first three thingsthat transparencies. So you need to know what your people are getting paid period. You need to have some level of customization. Right, you'd have thatlevel of risk tolerance, and then that creates the buying experience that actually makesworking with the right partner makes sense. I think that this is probably oneof the most challenging sales to be done out there because you're selling to peoplewho sell, and that to me is always like right, like a goodsalesperson, they will appreciate a good sale and a good buying experience. Likemy husband jokes like I'm a Sucker, like if there's a good person that'sworking for it, I'm like, yes, I'm going to give you this becauseyou're doing everything right. On the flip side, when I experience abad one, I'm the first person to be like, let me, letme inform you why this did not work, some constructive criticism. It drives himnuts, but I love the game. So I think that you know,for being in this role, to buying experience, it's kind of likehow you do one thing is how you do everything right. Like if I'mnot transparent, at the onset, then I certainly am not going to betransparent. When money is exchanging hands like that. Is going to only getthat. The gap is only going to get wider. So I really appreciatethe fact that this sale, it's should be all the things that we're bringingin any of our businesses, but it matters even more because of who thecustomer is in this sale. Yeah, you're right in look, the otherthing that you have to realize it in this space is because this is abit of a contentious topic. You use the word outsourcing and everybody has aperception, often times that positive right VP of sales, you know, whichusually is the mobilizer in this sale, but very rarely can actually get thisdeal down in their own they got to get it through the CEO, theCFO and others. Phone. Listen to this, you're on this call.There's certainly ways to do that. But because they have to do that,to have a partner of this transparence, transparent and customizes and those other thingsI mentioned is really important because again, you're fighting a bit of an uphillbattle, just as this idea alone, and you got to have a partnerthat's willing to go along with that journey with you and do all those thingsthat you'd expect that you be shot and...

...this industry, transparency especially to justreally rare. I I think that you're so spot on there and I almostthink about this partner should be truly an extension of your team, right.They need to be in the trenches with you, helping sell that CEO,helping bring the CFO along, and I would imagine you correct me if I'mwrong, but as the sales leader, revenue leader, whoever is bringing inthis partner, it's probably helpful for you to bring other parts of the organizationinto some of these conversations to help them experience, have that buying experience.That builds trust, builds confidence and allow allowed the the outsourced, and Igive my air quotes here, that partner, to feel integrated into the company.I imagine that those are such important steps in the the actual sales process. Yeah, you're right, definitely right. I mean, if you're thinking aboutthis the right way, that that sales camel and partner, that outsourcingsolutions provider, again, however you want to talk about it, or whateveryou want to call it, they're going to be representing your brand when theygo and sell your product or service to your consumer, of that company that'sbuying your stuff isn't going to know that this company is not you. Imean they carry your email, they carry your business cards, they go tomarket as if they're used. So there's does need to be that type partnership. There does need to do that connection and I found if they sales VPis thinking about this earlier, that they have the conversation with the right partnerthat earlier, that they work with that partner to sell all these myths thatwe talked about today with their other partners in the organization, the better outthey're going to be. Perfect. So I we've covered a lot of groundhere and I think the thing I've loved most about the session is that thereare such tangible things. So the first if I want to play some thingsback, feel free to add here. For the first is if I'm somebodythat's responsible for growth right and said an organization that could be a founder,could be ahead of sales, could be a business unit leader, whatever thatmight be, there are ways to self assessed. First and outsourcing may havefelt off limits to you because it's such a it can be such a polarizingterm, and so really what you need to think about is, am Isomeone or is my business in a point where I need speed, scale,focus, flexibility, capability or cost considerations? Are those good components in which Ineed to scale and I need to do that either fast I need todo it with people. Can I bring them on internally? Is My existingteam focus do that or they going to go sell existing solutions? Do Ineed flexibility because I don't really know what I'm getting into? Do I havecapability in house and can I financially make it make sense? So these arethings to self assess. And then the second piece of it is that yousay, yeah, like I could use a talent management partner. will saythat we're not even going to say outsore worst because the murderer. There yougo, I'm going to use that. Talent management will use that one too. Sure, yeah, we are, we are. We are on aquest to dispel outsource saying. And then the second pieces. You're going togo out into the market. You may be talking to a partner like arocket power and revenue collective members hit Ted up. I'm sure he'd be happyto be a resource here, but when you're looking at it, there's fourthings to start asking yourself if your partners doing. Are they being transparent?Do they have risk tolerance? Are they willing to customize? And how isthe buying experience? Because I guarantee your by experience is probably similar to howyour customers is going to be. So so think about that. Like you, this is the biggest sale of all and if they can get past yourown revenue leader in house and bringing other members along, then they could beworth that trial. Anything you want to add their type now, I meanyou mailed it. Speed, scale, focus, flexibility, capability, costs. Then you got to think about transparency, risk tolerance, customization and what's thatbuying experience? And what I tell anybody that's listening, if you know, if you again, obviously we offer some of these services, but surecommercial. What I've been intending to do here is is just spelled this inan industry and help people understand that there...

...are companies disrupting the way that it'sbeen done. You know, we think we're one of the leaders, thatwe're not one of the only ones, and it may make sense for you, you know, as a revenant collective member, to look at other partnersor not look at the solution at all. Happy to help. Give me acall. I can walk you through if this makes sense. I'll bethe first one to tell you if it doesn't and if it does, giveyou some options that have you to help. I think so. My past role, we were we were creating a category or dispelling a category. So, similar to like you're saying, ours was in the innovation space, andI'm going to add outsourcing to this because I normally say innovation and diversity arethe most bastardized terms. We're going to grow up forced in there too.Write like birthment of that today and be whole another doctors. Everybody talks aboutit, but very few people can actually want articulate it and to defend itor show how they're doing it. So I love that we're putting outsourced inhere too, because outsourcing is really it's I have a need and is therea partner that allows me to get there in a better or faster way?That's really the essence of it. And then you could people challenge. There'slots of different ways to do that. This is one tool that you cando that with. In a lot of circumstances are going to make great senseand some of it isn't, but you're just trying to solve people talent ownjust that simple. I love the simplicity of it. That's my goal withthis, you know, this podcast, is how do we just get downto the nitty gritty? How do we make it tangible? And my hopeis that after let's see how long we've been talking, our forty minutes together, that our members in this community gets to say, you know, hey, this may be worth something to look into. So I say a bigthank you for joining us today and helping just educate our audience, helping levelthem up in their perspectives and and knowledge of what this world is. AndI would say to our community members, especially those that might be on slack, feel free to drop Ted a line, drop me a line. I'm happyto connect and thank you, Ted, for forgiving first making sure that youknow our people have the best resources available. This has been fun.Yeah, I really enjoyed it and I would say this isn't me given first. I've got off a lot from this community. I've watched a ton ofthese podcasts, I've learned a lot, I've reached out and slack people havehelped me over the last nine or ten months. So hopefully I can giveback a little bit. But thank you and thanks for the community and Ilook forward to connecting with more folks. So had a ton of fun andhopefully we dispelled a few myths today. I think we did. I knowfor myself I learned all right, revenue collective. This is Casey, likeGordon, I just sat down. What's Ted Really Cowski, and we aresigning off. We'll see you next week. Take care. All Right, folks, that episode maybe my favorite one I've done yet. I loved itbecause it's something I've personally dealt with. Health, sourcing, sales and knowingwhen is the right time, who is the right partner? Am I theright sized company? These are all things I'm grappled with and I hope forthose of you that are sitting in revenue sales leadership rules that today gave yousome tangible ways that you can move this forward. Thank you, Ted.It was awesome. All right, signing off with the big thank you toour sponsor send Oso. They deliver modern direct mail, personalized gifts and otherphysical impressions that make your outreach more personal. I'm Casey, like Boardon your hostand this is the revenue collective podcast. See you next week.

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