The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 21: Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

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Outsourcing Sales: Fact or Fiction with Ted Grulikowski

T Tai and welcome to the revenuecollective potcast. My name is casy Len, Gordon and on your house today I havethe opportunity to sit down with Ted ruly Kowski. The vice president atrocket power tad is one of our members from Atlanta and we're going to betalking about fact or fiction outsourcing sales. Our goal fromtoday's conversation is going to be to dispel some meths and rumors about whatit is to really outhorce your sales process or outsource your salesfunction. It's going to be insights into a hidden industry, more contextinto why people do it when it works, when it doesn't Ted, has some tangiblethings to to offer to our listeners around. How do you know? WITOUTSOURCINGis right for you and then how do you actually assess a partner? I'm supergrateful for TAT. He brings so much experience, ouphenticity and honestly,tangibility Tut, something that can feel a little big and a little scary,so tunein today and let's get started before we do. I want to give a bigshout out to our sponsor Sindoso Sindoso is the leaving sending platformit's the most effective way for revenue, generating teams to stand out with newways to engage at strategic point throughout the customer journey. Myconnecting digital and physical strategies companies can engage a quireand retain customers easier than ever before. All right, thank you. Sin Doso, I'mCasy, Leke, Gordon and let's Jup Hin with CE hello and welcome to today's revenue,collective pocast. My name is TC Lanbordan and on your host today I havethe chance to sit down with a fellow Atlanta member Ted. Burlikowski Ted isthe vice president at rocket power and is Gointo bes chatting with me todayabout outwercing, sals, fats or fiction. A little highlight to this is itsinsights into a hidden industry. Why people do it when it works when it does't what to look out for in dispelling common, Miss I'm excited to sit downand talk about this because candidly, it was something I dealt with in mylast roll on my way out, and I have some questions so ta Welca. They gaveyou thanks, but to be ere before to have a funcat me too me too s alwayslike to start out y. just letting our guests tell t the audience a little bitabout themselves. Give me a hit on what is rocket power. What is your rolethere? An and maybe some career highlife before ye? He landed in thisnewerole yeah sure dase. I spent twenty years an go to markit sales andbusiness leavrs of Brols, pretty much always focused on developing stratanand bilmen team to drive evn drowt, so rocke power is a for stopone hundredstartup and we offer disruptive talent solution. So, if I'm sitting on theSpotcastle, what the helm is ask, so it means we do three things. We helpcompanies find the absolute best talent, build theg, exact solutions, they'relooking for and then run the very best teams in the world, Ewe're a bunch ofex operators that really are offering the things that, when we sat in theshoes like a lot of metmic elected members of CPS sales and chief peopleofficers and other things for offering the solutions that we wanted to buy.But couldn't I love that so much? I love because Ihave been one of those talents had this tollen kneeve and you're sitting thereso often- and just like you said you're trying to articulate to an oushorcepartner to a third party, especially by the time you need talant you're,usually already hurting right. Nobody goes out proactively and says I needall of this stuff. They come to you when they're already in a moment ofcrisis, and so for you all, the Green. The expertise been they're done that Ican imagine, accelerates an and brings a lot more value than your traditionalpartner yeah. It does. I mean it's interesting when we sit down with folksand we actually have the conversation not only miht work for a outsourcingcompany. You know most of my career, but I've actually sat and be P os, sale,shoes and ive dealt with a lot of the challenge that they've doat. With inthe questions and many years ago, I didn't know this industry existedeither and when people hear outsor,...

...they think God knows what right andmost litl turn off. ratly ditsounds, whether Iman it soundsexpensive, it sounds lower quality. It sounds like stop gap like it doesn'tnecessarily ring the best perception. So what are your? What are yourthoughts there? Your arms are right. I mean it doesn't so if you're sittinghere listening to this and you hea the word outsourcing. The last thing youthink about is says you think about a really awful customer experience withyour Credit Card Company or calling into you know. One of your cablecompanies will lead branch out of this, and you know in were loo at they knowwho they are. They know Wenryou're thinking just like you said, Lo QualityD y. Why Wild? I do this! Oh Man, if I run in a company nit a foundher or star?U I'MS supposed to know o sel Mi od, I might in be e cell phone, so it thiskind of this bastardized term in the sales world that people just don'tunderstand. But when they hear of all the companies that actually outsourcedifferent components of their sale stratemy or go to market strated, oftentime to theire shot, I love that not to me as what today is all about. It'sdispelling a miss and the thing that I found with this community and tell meyou know your experience. I think you and I joined about the same timeearlier in twuenty. Twenty is that it's been helpful for me to pull back thecurtain on some things that we've heard about or tengentially no, but I hadehad a chance to really dig in just because of my own experiences. So whenwe talk about, you know outsourcing sales, let's start with first I personally. Maybe this is bias. Iwould think big company will outsore sals right, like they're superbig. Theyneed scale and they're trained to GE butts in seats. Tell me what are theconsiderations, I'm saying self selecting to be a company that shouldconsider Outhorsin, so OCCA, you right. A lot of big companies do think aboutoutsourcing sales, but also a lot of companies that are a hundred fos DCback beati bag. Just got a big chector trying to figure out how to drive agirlf tore, trying to figure out now. How did I develop different parts on myGoto Market Gragy? How do I try things so there's a lot of reasons thatcompanies outsore sales, but before we think about why companies do it Mayi wespent a second to finding like what it is, because that's really I o poorsometodyhe said. Should I do it or not: Sai, okay Wut. What does O sersactually mean and if I'm Sitt as a VP sales in a small company or a bigcompany, Watr Y, ask Youtick Thateli. I love it. LET'S DO THAT HOU'RE! Theexpert here so take us away a couple thing. So owsourcin sale doesn't meanthat you need to hand your entire sales team offto another coman. It doesn'teven mean that you need to hire her hand off the Management Dae, aresponsibility of your sals teams, oother Compani. A lot of companies inthis space have perpetuated this myth that, if you're going to use anoutsourse of sale team that you have to give up the entire amount of control-and you have to do it there- an you have to buy all these things that youmay not want. Wmodern companies in this pics are offering solutions that allowyou to really Asul do whatever you want. So let's say that Youare, a Saleswayou're at a SASS company and you're looking to drive goth, and you need y na dozen people to perhaps qut on an Indor at channel UT. Your a hundredpercent drag focus or you're growing like crazy, and you need somebody tohandle ofsell proscess or you need an incide seal team, but you're sitting inSan Francisco N. You don't want to pay sanfrancicical figters an you'd. Ratherthan somewhat the write. outsore sales porvier canhelp you recur the town. They canot be fin the town. They can pay wall thattalent. If they. Why, if you want, they can provide you the technology, so theetire sales are markeing textteck. If you want them to use yours, they canagain. This is the right sals out, sorcof provideres, my ain in the spacethat won't do that and that's the mytt. The other thing that company will do is,if you want to manage those folks that they work for someone else, there's anot of reason why you do that Lo iencal reason alo in that he sees Hefirms,find really attractive about thises and...

...do all those things you can have peopleto demand, Gee Jenipinn Seti. You could have folks to higend enterprise sales.You know where ther' Sellin deals that are a million dollar plus of six eighthmonths. Dalcycles comparies are using outsource, forviders or talent. Sukensproviders to do all those things so talk to me about l, Ke, you mentionvc nd pe backed, and that to me is always an interesting space, becauseI've done some work in that space and so much of of why people invest and getthose dollars is the team. And so I want to understand, because when youtold me that I was surprised because my original thought is well they're goingto want it in house right, they're going to want the people to be home,grown they're going ta want them to eat, breathe. Now this solution, how haveyou seen it actually be a value ad to those partners, sure so that's anothermit that they can be home grown and they can't be internal and thecompanies can't take hem over again. That's the problem of the lavacingcompanies in this space. They have convinced salesleaders all over theecosystem, that they can only do things a certain way. It's just not true. Sowhat I would tell you is t af, you're, a town parter to be SEFA, we're notvering aparther, O pee compan and you just wrote a big chat and you justacquired a a component of a what's called a fast Gro ascoe and their poorcompidency is their product. Is Engineering, its technical action andit's all those thins, maybe the herohat see isn't says and you just strongteouch check and those companies need. Maybe they want to shit their entire goto Marka Motel, the inside sales from field that sounds familiar in e lastsix months: Fo Much nomting to don it, but companis don't have a clue how todo that, so the outsor sail or talent solutions. Her will do this they'll hopyou really defind. What the Taen is that you neet they'll haldly, find thattoent they'll hire that town, u stood up and running and from the beginningthey will design that solution to hand that entire team over to you in eithernine months or falt months and by the time of the DEUCTAN's Rede and they'vedone quot unl. All the Hartwork thit may not be that company's Por confeencyand they learn how to do that together. That company that Pear VC BAC companycan take that Ilt team over and they are in turn and they transfer the wholeorgization. So the VC fier lives at this and Sais you coald gose on allthose things you're goon to ad. I'm goingto give you the money, I'm Gointahire somebody that's really good. At standing up and building sales team andyou're right n a long term, they may want those employees on their paywell.They may want those employs as anter Copofo grat can get that w en it makessense. So again it's this idea that people think they can't, but theyreally can wit, the right part and so right partner. That is soimportant to me here. So one of the things that n again, I'm speaking formy own anecgotal experience. You know you share some of yours as that early stage. Companies and well, youknow we're not anybody is always resorce stric. I think that's just thenature of being in business. You always feel hat, there's more to do ther maybehands to do it, but especially in those early stages- and this was myexperience- is that I knew I could use an outsource partner, but I felt likethe burden of onboarding them was so great. I had to wait for this perfectmoment in time. I T I'm going to get this done. I'm Gong to get my marketingmaterials renning, I'm going to give my personas built out whatever it is untilI can bring them on and by the time I actually brought that partner on. I wasready to kick myself because I wish I had done it six nine twelve monthsearlier, because they brought so much sophistication and experience that theyprobably could have helped me. Do those things faster and better or maybe eventaken over some of that so talk to me about right partner and when it's theright time to maybe engage because I a just in my own experience, I said wow.I really think I limited my growth if I had just moved a little bit faster andand not been so burdened by my own to do list yeah, we I have to do Tis forsure in our of growing every single day, as you can imagine so, if you're BEP,sale or you're a founder or you're a...

...small company you're. Frankly, ifyou're an askin per an executive director, a big company, there's reallysix things you need to think about and how to evaluate. If I a sourcingsalsand again, you got to remember how you define out SOURC, omsels and E. Doan you, Ay yeah, the audience can't see, but you Jescape Airqut, so air foer outlissing sails because thellir right we're do spelling mists here, ILN CAS, I can see each other everybody. Soyou know. Unfortunately, you don't have to see me Thog for an hour, but shecan' go. I Wu e Aros, so hat ar six regons, so you mentione speed the firstthing to speak. If you have to hire a dozen votes and Youre a small companyand you've got a million other things to do. How hard is that going to be foryou to? Do you have a whole bunch of regruiters? Can you even go through theinterview to hire a dozen folks? Maybe you need to scring a hundred. You had the right Davastraction, youhave the right job trial. Do you want to use Ferhadel, analytic tools? Youhave area ts, there's a hundred things to think about. So, if you were withthe right, sals carers TAT solutions partner. If who want to go away fromthe word out sourcing for a second that company could hire, twelve people hadbeen working for you in sixty days, no problem that company Coul hire ahundred people and Hav en working for you in sixty eight, no problem so thinkabout it. From a speed point of view, you've really got to ask your questionyourself. This question: how quickly can I move seve ones? Scare you want toscale up. Har Can help you do that. Here's the other thing, if whateveryou're trying to do, doesn't work for whatever reason, if you're trying totake a swing and t, maybe a different Gomarcusdrad, and maybe a differentchannel May yo trying to launch a diffent FRADAC whatever it is. It worksreally well that parter Cenu the scale up bif it doesn't work. We can make aphone call and be out of that N thirty GIT and I have to deal with all thethings that come with that and that's really important, especially for thoseof you that work for public companies there's a lot involved with lettingpeople go and everything associated Gh. That's the part I have't really thoughtabout is like what if it goes wrong and that's a risk anytime, you bringsomeone new to the organization right, those first. Ninety days, sixty dayswere so telling, and so the ability to have a single partner that could helpeither. You know stale up or steal down, that's pretty powerful, and I I knowthat any revenue leaders founders, especially in early stage, that is oneof the that's Hene. It mast, costly both fromtime and money N perspective. So I I loved that point. I hadn't thoughtabout that prior. If it goes wrong yeah I mean in the cost of a missire it enyou're not going to have a whole another Bocastin efor sure. So youthink t bing, you think scale and tit will know two hours, so we got folus.So you mention that Hu's to do Tis that you have well, if you have a millionother things to do when you're trying to start something new or you're.Trying to again I go back to you trying to perhaps watch a new PRI forr pursueAE channel or Yo Component Bo. A market stract or if you're in a big companyand your pulld a thousand different ways, and perhaps if you start thisteam or your se, your product, man Yo're an a company, and you want theexisting sales team, eself SOM OO, O for service. When you know they an sell,the things that are in their basket right now that they've always sold,they make the money out, they're, probably going to ignore hetonselvethey're not going to focus on well. If you hire a talent, solution's partnerand Ousorce imparter from a salspoint o view, therein Fokus a hundred percenton what he wanted to focus laser focuse on your mission, what he wante get? USo as a little hope as you can get it the right parter that you can't getanywhere else, the other things flexibill. This is more relevant an Ifound midmarket in larger organizations. ERS, look! There's lots of bureaucracy!There's lots of rules on things you can and can't. Do. I've never heard thatTed, that', shoting or e Sal B be wants to getsomein change inthe SEOA, and it takes him six months and got t get line with the IT wor.Those are Yow that work in those...

...countaries are human is pain it at well,the right, toin, lusions, Faron superflexile. They give you that stuff,an mintant powers, NAP Dasan, weks, so speed, Sgale, focus flexibility andthen the last two mayb ar Ar Argu be the most important in the last ine,especially so it's caability and cost so catabilla. Well, I mean by ga amillion wel. You said earlier. You got a big to do this and maybe you work fora company and maybe an indirect sales team, or maybe aninside Saleteam, an Labe, a field sales team on whatever is isn't your pot forPopet, and maybe you need to hire a company. That's got the capability todo things in a faster, better and more efficient and perhaps cheaper way thanyou can see. Look at Thata. I really have the gave ability to do this or MIbetter of fire a company. That's all they do all the time. Tlast one's costtones amiss here and there are companies in the space that haveperpetuated. What I would says some changing points of view on the subject,and we get to this topic later I'll talk about things to look out for, butit doesn't cost as much as you think it does. You don't have to hire somebodythat you know gets paid, sixty thousand and pay a hundred and fifty thousandfor an outhource partner. To do that, you know loo. If you really understandwhat the cost of hiring and employing somebody is when you think aboutbenefits- and you know all the systems ar all the things that you have to loadinto a cost- and you understand that and you work with the right sales out,source of Faran is transparent and what te charge you and what you're payin herboy you'll find Anis Actul more forble. I I love that those last two pieces-I'm Gonto, touch t on capability a bit, and this is you know I I'll aplay intosome of heththe bureaucracy. And specifically, I mean I think thisexists in any company, but certainly larger companies. It's scary, to putyour neck out right, it's scary, to make a decision to bring an an outsidepartner. I think that you know anybody in sales knows often it's not thecompetition that you're competing with it's inaction, and so, when I thinkabout that, you know if this isn't my poor confidency and I am putting my neck out to say Iam going to bring in an ou external partner. How do I build the confidencs to knowthat I am I'mcapable or the right person tomanage that and not to me it's something that there's such a tention.Is it's Rit? Why you go to an outfourced agency or a partner or anyof those in in sales and marketing, but there's also this fear of God. What, ifI don't know enough to know if they're doing a good job and so t whattension,yeah, you're, totally right? It's Kindo that fair, an unknow feer being exposedall those ocianal drivers where you're sitting in that seat Gong. Oh, my Gosh,I go tell Y CDO, but I want to hire aparte or again out. SORSE INPARTER orI wuld suggest SA taent's solution. Poer Wer, aancosorce, just Ahet, youmight haveeyain that regard. But if I say town solution's partner, it's Notasinteresting Av, hes Fov cast, if I say outsorts outsourcing, everybody has anopinion and wants to hear about, but let's say town olution far. So ifyou're sitting those shoes, you need to look for a few things. You need to lookfor apartner. That is transparent. What do I mean by transparent? Well, there'sa lot of companies in this industry for years, AF him what it is their chargingand he what it is their pan and they're doing that for reason they don't wantyou to know that they're paying fifteen or twenty percent low, marking Bo morethe folks, thit they're higher than you're Bak. So they're not going totell you what they're paying ot it's insane. If you were fowire a salsout sor O far, and they will not tell you where they are main, your hois thatwere ginorthat Yo av on her. So the first thing you needn look for isTransparenc, so I know that the people that they're higher n Amma Behaf- Iknow the market wage for this type of role and they're, going to tell you allthese things and they're going to back it up. Ith Deta his seventy five grandwhile I'm paying em soning by ran and...

I'm going to charge you you knowWhathav a hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty thousand dollars forthat. Well, but you got to be transparrent. We got to understand thatbecause the companies that are transparent, what they're doing is theyare standing behind the value that they can bring to you and, if they're notwilling to do that, they're higher people less than market they're, giventalent that isn't the same kind of town on that you coul hire for the same plot.If I told Andy sails iur on this ball, I'm going to give you twenty percentmore budget to hire canent. You think you could hire a better town than twenypercent hunred hours. He answers yet possolutely! So transparency, you gotto understand what you're up against and you need a barn. That's going to beable to Di es what I ban and yours N. I charge you, here's what build up intomy cost and here's what I'm making and if I can offer you with value thatmakes sense forat. If I can't do hire, there's too much acoponies in the samestreet an hia. I love that of saying you know a linedin sentence right. It'snot! You don't want a partner, that's not making money! That's no th t!That's not going to lead to a good partnership. I want my partners to havefinancial upside. I want it to make sense financially for me, and I thinkthat in general and I'm sure every you know, every member of our community isseeing this this transition, but the consumer in this case other be to becompanies, are becoming so much more educated. Tha Access to information.Transparency is just afunction in general conversations like this, and soany of those say anybody that is competitive. I imagine that they warehaving to lead with transparency and to your point. If they're not like justtot conversations, because it's not going to be it's not going to be asuccessful partnership, so I I love the duts. That's our number one thing tolook for yeah, so what he sai I ho. You would think that, in part of the reasonthat our team at rockepower is offering the conof solutions that we're offering-and I talk about transparency and podcast all the time just because thisindustry isn't there, this industry is hidden behind this idea that lookyou're going to pay a hundred and twenty thousand dollars for a Rabyou.Don't really know 'cause it' t's. That's my it! That's information, anI'm not going to tell you that's what you're hiring me to do! COENPOINAT andall this other BS. WOULD THEY OL COS GIV they're, actually paying thatperson. Sixty Grand D, they're MARKENTG IT OT two x when the market value forthat job, seven and five w an you're geting you're, not getting the righttown. So why say transparency it? It is critical and we are trying to disruptan industry and MOV intire industry that way 'cause! That's the way Ishooti, so what you're saying is that t the baseline today is likely nottransparency, fort it's something around, and if people are starting tohear Heyhey, that's my I p. that's my unique thing: Pushon ot a bit or Godstart to talk to other partners, because you're saying that transparencyactually can be the IP in itself, like rightly the ability to be to say thisis honestly how we're making money alining incentives, that's how you canensure n the biopartnership s tell you can insure that you're, getting theright town at the right market wages! It's how you can ensure that that therelationship starts off in a way thats transparent, its muntually beneficial.It starts off understanding. Like you said, you want your parer and make alittle bit of money. You don't want to pay three acts, whatever e else paying,but s you're. Fine! If you you don, have a reasonable point of view. Likeyou do, and you realize that you can't suspeed on your own, everybody has towin. They need to make a little money and that's okay, but is Idin thatthey're going to hide it. It's just ridiculous. So I'm telling you you'reif you're listening to this and you're thinking about hiring and outsore salesparer, and they won't tell you what the people that are working for you makefind another horror simpls that the Saan you nal us, and it is absolutely ahundred percent rite I'll call it ricecols. So if you're hired aparer,that actioll knows your industry and actually has a level of expertis andknows what they're doing and Wa to really work with you and really wantsto Aligne from a performance standpoint,...

...they need to be willing to take a levelArisk on hitting you'R utually define CP is or sails stolls we're salspeople.We carry quotas, O'r performed in space, THAT'S OUR WORLD! How do you hire apartner that is not going to come along in that journey with you and I'm nottalking ten or twenty per cent rairdy forty fifty percent in some cases moredepending on the situation, but you've got to be able to have a parten hit'sWoln. To take some reast and go along with that ride and by the way they can't take that risk, if they're,not trained parent in a lot of companies, are going to try and tellyou that they're going to charge you a hundred and twenty thousand dollars andill take thirty or forty percent rest, what they don't tell Yo is they'repaying that person fifty or sixty so they're, actually not taken any of iscase. If they don't et your numbers, theyre going to get paid a that doesn'twork. So the second things is this idea of risk tolerance and aligning on yourperformance an finding a partner, that's willing to sign up for a potplan. That's INSEDEN base like every other stasperson on the plan yeah. I I think these are so criticaland I think that you know one of the things that Yo go, I'm speaking from myown experiences, I didn't even know what to ask. So that's why I love thisconversation is we're helping at least give people a good base line to go intothese conversations of knowing what is a fair question askd? What is you know,a fair model, and I I sometimes think that just the lack of information whenyou're getting presented a deal that maybe doesn't make sense the inabilityto know what you can ask sometimes just takes it off the table alltogether, andwhat you're telling me is that no, these are all fair questions to ask andthere are partners who will give you a fair answer and if they're, not justnot the right partner, I it doesn't mean outsourcing is- is off the table.It's just that that may not be the one to go for and then so you talk to me,you know you- and I were t talking a bit before this- that there's a fewother things to avaluate, and so we have transparency and risk tolerance.Anything else that once you decide, you know that H. I am somebody that mightbe in the market for for out wore saying, Motalibang minsulutions. Whatare some of the other things that I need to other criteria to consider yeahso that there's two more ones I'll call customization. So again, this goes backto this again. The stigma otoutsorcing in the sale world and begin if we thinkabout it, as maybe a talent, solution's, parter or a sales carer, can take someof that away. So this IDA that you have to buy what it is they're selling andyou have to buy all these things that you may not mee. What you need is apard thats willing to customize a solution that gives you everything youwant and nothing you dont. So that looks something like this. If you gointo a situation, you say I'm a Pe Pirer and I love the idea ofhaving a town solutions, part from a sals point of view that can stand up ateam and can get that Ta RIIC and hire anrun it on their paywoll for six to eights to twelve months. It statilizeit oganization and then is willing to hand that over to me they'll. do it tthe same time if you are a bps sales or CRL for a company, and you wha dated acontrol of that tea. But you don't you're talking to a sales outsourse inPAROM, says Belel, I'm only going to take brisk. If I am Gin to manage thisand I'm only going to take risk on this deal, I re it. My Hotex Act Welllok,that's not what you want to buy, so you need to find a partner, that's willingto customize a solution that makes sense for you, so in that scenarea, Lo,okay, I'll Regu, fie, I'll hire, oull source of town I'll, be hundred CENtradparent when I'm paying him and what I'm charging you I'll add value inthese surtays and you can manage hem day today and they can use your text atand by the way, I'll also take risk. In that scenario, just like you are as asails Weier, because I know iave the best hound for you and if I find thatbest, Talen and we've got that right, harnrship and I know you're going tomanage those bosts. If you went, I wuld...

...you lose islands, his idea of acustomize solution, ot buying all this stuff hat. You don't Wa Ormean, becausethat's the only way the sales outsourcein company is going to offermew solutions Onsan and that's what a lot of the big coplics in the space ofdoing you hire me and you want me to take any wrest. I got a man to day today performance. You've got to buy a program manager. You've got to buy allthis reporting analymic tools, a Hois, my entire tax tack and ATS Cost CostPoscost cost for people all of a sudden that this isn't for me so find theright. Parter Thas won a customize US ollusion to you. I ave question on that,and so this is me playing some devil's advocative, I'm sitting in in a buyer'sseat, Orno. Rather the cellar seat of this is that sometimes you can have so as theoutforce partner. There are things that you need your customer to do right,because if they donl there's going to be failings and then TNOWFOR, yourperformance is at risk, and so I'm curious, maybe from your experience,erotic power or even using other partners or working with other. Youknow companies that have done this. How do you make sure that your lient, thethe company that is hiring you to outsource, has some of the sameassurances so that they're not failing your process or your method? And how doyou balance that, because I know from a a buyer perspective, I do want you tohave a point of view. I don't want it to be so rigid that I can't adapt it tomy word, but that's why I'm hiring you. So what Il that balance between thatYeahso good question in hers, Ot the typiy looks in in real life whether IVbought services from utors of companies or for years work for a consulptingfirm that inbie other companies nwhether. They should do this or notwhen they who they are so if there means to be a shack list, there needsto be a point of view from your partment that says: Look if we're goingto work together and we're going to be successful in sale. These seven, eight,nine ten things have to be implaced. I don't necessarily care if no twosix,eight and nine are provided by me or you, but they have to be there. WSO Askthe point of view that the right partner is going to bring to you. Forexample, if I av a stand up a sales team, but I'm going to take rest andyou don't have a C or emdipoyed and you're not using modern sales,enablement, prodactivity tools- and you don't want me to provide a hem if youdon't have 'em and they're not going to be there, that's not going to work, butif I've got a textag and you've gote. Why Don'Yo need to buy mine when I canjust levers the one you alrea have at a Zara stood up and is alreadyintegrating your systems a's far easier for yous at I'll, just Ibrang, my teamin ith that bith, the idea that we operate without hom completely doesn'twork. So it's his aadof understanding what meens to be in place. Then theconversation becomes. Who is the right horror in this equation me or you toSel the Porson company or their plan to fulfill that step in the process? Thatmakes a lot of sense to me so you're saying that the partner should have apoint of view on what is an ideal process. What is going to be the recipefor success, but I don't care or I am open to, who is providing itand maybe which platform tool, resource etcetera. That is like there'sflexibility in the two and the what or e who in the how but the what is. Maybeour recipe, for instance yeah for R hundred Pr Cent R andget. A lot of thecompanies have a very clear point of view on how they want to sell Han. Theywoul dact o a certainsels process, whether I's challenger Ore of the otherBazilian Gran processesbut. That's fine! As long as there is one. If you'n'Lhave one I'll bring one to you a lot of companies in thi space, itlook, you got to use my whole textstack when the companies Are'in bought allthose things heare. The other thingegotta use my little TEXTAC 'cause.I'm mark ing all that stuff up two ex for one point by not just to passthrough cost, I'm using it as a profit center yeah, it's Crez and Wa and TAT'swhat the right partner will do. You said another thing: that's reallyimportant the right parter as got to be transparend and tell you, ok, you don'thave to see erader. You need this Yo need that no probl, I'M GOIN! Noprocure that a there's on I'm going to...

...pay. I want to pass that through or ifyou want to go. Fo cureage an get a better price than I can't go ahead. Idon't care. What we need is that so how you get it e manages it doesn't matteras much okay. So we have for the people that are assessing a partnertransparency. They need to come to the table and say here's what cost arehears away. You know resourcing looks like we need risk tolerance. Are theywilling to put a little skin in the game right to your point? At the end ofthe day, we all are working in sales and revenue, and so performant matterscustomization have a point of view on what the process is, but flexibilityand who's providing it or how we might accomplish that. What are anything elsethat we need to consider from from a sales perspective or from an ousorcingperspective of Wheno, was sessing a partner Yehso, those treee things. Youmentioned a hundred percent agree with the last one. It is what I'l call theVine Experience d. They really are unwakin in those first trate, first,three things. So, if you're in a work with a sal, parter, Tal salestowentsolutions partner, an outsors Inpartner, whatever you want to call it, you got to make sure that, when you'reinteracting with those folks that they have alevel of Ecetive, they have alevel of point of view, cause theyare to be pretty close to you and they'regoing to be connected with you and if they start off he relationship in a waythat isnat transparent. If they're trying to convince you to buy a bunchof things that you don't necessarily need and they're not willing to sign upfor some level of risk, that Byan experience as you're going to have maynot make sense, and it's going to start out contentious it's going to start offin away that you're just handing over kind of this black hole. It justcouraged this environment that te it may work for thirty or sixty or ninetydays, but then you're going to figure out that you're your teams not gettingpaid what they should you're paying way too much you're going to figure outthat you' Hav, you buyng all the stuff that you don't need and it's Goit tofail overtime. So it's really those first three things that transperencies,you even know: Hwher people are getting paid period. You need to have somelevel customization right, you'd have a Lovo risk tolins and the NAT rat fobine experience that actually makes working with the right parter makessense. I think th. This is probably one of themost challenging sales to be done out there, because you're selling to peoplewho sell and that to me is always like right.Like a good salesperson, they will appreciate a good sale and a goodbuying experience. Like my husband, jokes, like I'm, a sufker like there isa good person, that's working for it, I'm like. Yes, I'm going to give youthis, because you're you're doing everything right on the flipside. WhenI experience a bad one, I'm the first person to be like. Let me let me informYo why this did not work, some constructive criticism. It drives himnuts, but I I love the game, so I think that you know for being in this worldof buying experience, it's kind of like how you do one thing as how you doeverything right like if I'm not transparent at the onset- and Icertainly am not going to be transparrent when min is exchanginghands. LTHAT is only GB. Tha Gap is only going to get whiter, so I reallyappreciate the fact that this sale it's it should be all the things that we'rebringing in any of our businesses, but it matters even more because of who thecustomer is in this sale, yeah you're right in in Lov the other thing thatyou have to realize in this pacs, because this is a bit of thecontentious topic. You use the word outsoursin and everybody as aprorcepsion, oftentimes, nat, positive, bran, VP sals. You know, which usuallyis the bulbilizer in this sale, but very wodly can actually get this deal.Dout of their own they've got to give it through the CDO O cf, O oter, O esfall. Listening to this here on this fall. There are certainly ways to dothat, but because they have to do that, they have a parm of this transparence,chanchparent and pustomizes, and those other things I mention is really import.Because, again your I bi at I feel lad. Just O this idea. Alo, you Gotto have ahart. That's going o Oll oof the journey wat. You A do all those thingsthat you could expect at to be shot in...

...this industry. Transparency, especiallyjust, is really rare. I I think that you're so spun on there,and I I almost think about this partner should be truly an extension of yourteam right. They need to be in the trenches with you, helping sell thatCEO helping bring the Seaao along, and I would imagine you correct me, I'mwrong, but as the sales leader revenue leader, whoever is bringing in thispartner, it's probably helpful for you to bring other parts of theorganization into some of these conversations to help them. Experiencehave that buying experience that builds trust, bills CONFIDENC and allow aloudthe the outsource, and I give my airquotes here, that partner to feelintegrated into the company. I I imagine that those are such importantsteps in the actual sales process, yeah you're rg. Definitely right. I mean, ifyou're thinking about this, the right way that sals Tan Parer, thatoutsourcin solutions provider again howeve. You want to talk about it orwhatever you want to call it they're going to be reprisent your brand whenthey go and sell your proccor service to your consumer. That company that'sbuying your stuff, isn't going to know that this company is not you, I meanthey carry your email, they curry their business guards. They go market as ifthey're used. So there does need to be that type parnership. There does needto be that connection, and I found if they sal epis thinking about this, theearlier that they had the conversation with the right parthear that thearlier,that they workd with that part and dospell all these nists that we talkabout today with their other partners in the organinzation, the better oththere going to be perfect. So I we've carn a loe ground here and Ithink the thing I've loved most about this session is that theye are suchchangible things so the first. If I I want to play some things back, feellfree to add here fot. The first is, if I'm somebody that's responsible forgrowth rigt and set an organization that could be a founder. Could be aheadof sailes coud be a business unit leader whatever that might be. Therewere ways to self assess first, and our sourcing may have held off limits toyou, because it's such a it can be such polarizing term, and so really what youneed to think about is. Am I someone or is my business in a point where I needspeed, scale, focus, flexibility, capability or cost considerations arethose Tho components in which I need to sail, and I need to do that either fast.I need to do it with people. Can I bring them on internally he's myexisting team, focused D, or are they going to go, sell existing solutions?Do I need flexibility, because I don't really know whet I'm getting into do. Ihave capability in house and can I financially make it make sense? Sothese are things to self a death and then the second Pieceo of hit is t ayou say. Yeah like I could use a talent management part we'll say that we'renot even to say outsource, because o Muer Ther, O Yu tail manage wes n toSur. We are. We are, we are on a quest to dispel our sourcing and then thesecond piee says you're going to go out to the market. You maybe talking to aparker like a rocket power, an and revenue folike. The members hit ten up,I'm sure he'd be happy to be a resource here, but when you're looking at it,there's four things to start asking yourself: If your partner is doing, arethey being transparent? Do they have risk tolerance? Are they willing tocustomize? And how is the buying experience? Because I guarantee yourbyng experience is probably similar to how your customers is going to be so sothink about that like this is the biggest sale of all and if they can getpast your own revenue, leader in house and bringing other members along, thenthey could be worth that trial. Anything you want to add their type. No,I mean you nail. The speed scale focus flexibility capability costs. Then yougot to think about Transpareng ywit tower and specimization an what's theirbyin experiences, or i Jon away that listing. You know again, as we offersome of these services but Sart a commercial. What I'mintending to dotheres is tospell thiss in an industry...

...and help people understand that ourcompany S, disrupting the way that it's been noneyou, know w. We think we'reone of the leaders that Areno and the only ones and it may make sensfer youyou know as a revedent lect, a member to look at other parters or not withthesolution at all, happy to help give me a fall. I can walk Ou, Houg thisanmakes sent I'll, be the first one to tell you if it does, an o dos' give yousome options but happy to help. I I think so my pass role. We were, we werecreating a category O o disspelling, a category so similar to like youeresaying ours was in the Innovation Space and I'm an add outsourcing to this'cause. I normally say innivation and diversity ore, the most bastardizedterms, we'e forced in there too Rabird Erino that the ole other dog everybodytalks about it, but very few people can actually want articulate and to defendit or snow. How they're doing it so I love that we're putting out sourced inher too, because that sourcthing is really it's. I have a need, and isthere a partner that allows me to get there in a better or faster way thatearly the essence of it and ee, a all O, ta or people challenge, there's lots ofdifferent ways to do that. This is one tool that you can do that with in a lotof circumstances, ar going to make great sense, and so at isn't, butyou're just trying to solv people, talent O to se simple. I I love thesimplicity of it. That's my goal this you know this pod cast is how do wejust get down to the KNITTI gritty? How do we make it cangible, and my hope isthat, after let's see how long we've been talking, our forty minutestogether that our members in this community gets to say you know, heythis, maybe worth something to to look into. So I say they thank you forjoining us today and helping j educate our audience, helping level them up intheir perspectives and and knowledge of what this world is, and I would say toor community members, especially those that might be onflack beoll free todrop tio line drop me a line, I'm happy to connect and thank Youve tid forforgiving. First for making sure that you know our people have th the bestresources available. This has been fun. Yeah. I've really enjoyed it. I this is' meive verse. I've got Allalot from this community I've watching some ofthese bodcasts I've learned a lot I'd reached own Thi, slag people, telp meOve, last nine or ten months old. Hopefully I can give back a little bitb. t thank you and enthankfully communiy. I look for a connection wothmore folk, so had a Tonon N, and hopefully we spell a few minutes today.I think we did. I know for myself, I learnd ararevenue collective. This isKaty. My Bordon I just sat down with Ted Girlikowski and we are signing offwe'll see you next week. Take Care All right folks that episode may be myfavorite one. I've done yet. I loved it, because it's something I've personallydealt with else forcing sales and knowing, when is the right time. Who isthe right partner? Am I the right sized company? These are all things I'mrabpled with, and I hope for those of you that are sitting in revenue salesleadership roles that today gave you some tangible ways that you can movethis for, think you ted it was awesome all right signing off with a big. Thankyou too. Our sponsor Sindoso. They deliver modern, direct malepersonalized gifts and other physical impressions that make your outreachmore personal and Paso linborn in your host, and this is the revenue Collectivfodcast. SE E.

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