The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 78: Outsourcing Your Lead Gen w/ Amanda Moore

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 78: Outsourcing Your Lead Gen w/ Amanda Moore cofounder of DemandZen

Part of the "Thank God It's Monday" Series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, Thank God it's monday. Welcome back to the revenue collective podcasts. Your host Tom Alamo. This is where revenue leaders come to learn about the strategies, tips and tactics that they need to help to grow their organization. Thanks for joining me. Really excited about today's episode with Amanda More. Before we get to her. Let's do a quick shout out to our sponsor. So this episode is brought to you by quote a path which is a commission tracking software built for sales operations, finance and accounting teams. Running commissions and payroll has you running for the hills quota. Path is for you quota. Path helps organizations track and manage commissions and pay their teams accurately. And on time every time, keep your team motivated non target. Simplify your commissions at quota path dot com slash revenue dash collective. And give your reps the gift of transparency, I can say as a rep. We do like transparency and we do like commissions. So let's get to today's episode. I've got a great episode here with Amanda More. Amanda is the co founder of demands n which is an outsource lead generation and SDR organization. And that had some massive growth in the last few years, especially with Covid as the world has changed. So we talk about her background, we talk about SDRs in general, you know, being underrated what it takes to be a successful str and and how to run that team and we get way into the weeds there. So without giving too much away. Let's just go straight into my conversation with Amanda moore and all right, Amanda More. Good morning. Welcome to the revenue Collective podcast. How you doing? Good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, shout out to uh before we get about, you shout to north Carolina with apple heading there. It's like a talking to you. Yeah, it's a billion dollar week for north Carolina. That's awesome. I've got uh, I keep hearing north Carolina pop up in this world of covid and remote work and people saying they want to move to either north or south Carolina. That's like kind of a hotspot. So my friend is a realtor and I saw her on sunday and she said that it's like a bidding war. She has all these buyers and as soon as they find a house, it's off the market immediately, wow. Yeah. Good time to be a realtor in the Carolinas. Yes. Bad time to be one in san Francisco where I am. Well, it's actually not great because if you don't have houses to sell then you have a bunch of unhappy buyers. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's why, that's why I'm selling software because I can't handle the multi, you know, you're doing like the, to weigh the two way selling situations too much. There is a lot of benefit and selling software ever houses or services. Yeah, so let's let's get...

...let's get into the services and what you're doing it demands. And so you created or co founded demands. And about 67 years ago, I I'd love to just here before we get into what you're doing today and and talking about a little bit of the outsourced SDR model, curious just like what's the problem that you saw in the market at that time? Like why did you start demands it? So demands in. Um I combined my business with a former client of mine in 2014. I actually in 2008 or seven made the first cold call on behalf of my business. I had I had grown organically word of mouth Referrals and um the recession happened in 2008 and I was like, I think I might need to make a cold call for myself. And so I reached out to Bart Bartlett who was VP of marketing at a startup in Durham. Um and he basically hired me on the spot because that was a lot less expensive than all of my competitors. He hired me on two other occasions. Speaking of Apple, one was a great acquisition purchased by Apple was a big data start up in the U. K. And the next was a storage startup purchased by um E M. C, which is of course is now Dell. And he started a digital consulting practice. So we decided to kind of join forces in 2014. I think I had seven employees at the time and we're about 75 employees today. 100% remote. We've been virtual since the beginning, neither birth nor I are for public consumption anymore I think. Yeah. And and it's an interesting, you know, business to be and I imagine like in the last 12 to 15 months with Covid right because you're working to outsource lead generation and scr teams and I imagine being a sales leader and I let a sales team actually right as Covid was happening of a S and it was mayhem like getting people to getting your team from from in the office to to be remote. And yeah, I can only imagine for sdrs or folks that are are driving leads that it was even harder because it's usually a more junior role and a really challenging role may be the hardest role in sales. Like I'd be curious how your business has changed in the last 12, 15 months. I have to imagine people are bringing you off the hook to help. So I will answer that question. But first, the problem that we solve, which I failed to answer is we deliver cells qualified leaves in the form of appointments and we most of our campaigns are outbound and the problem is is not enough leaves, not enough pipeline, not enough cells. That's at the end of the day and that increased with Covid people. Were you struggling struggling even more to deliver qualified leads to their cells...

...people? And that's that's been a problem. It's been a problem for years. Right. But but it has heightened since Covid. No events, no conferences. We have also, you know, during this time pivoted and found a lot of value and like virtual lunch and learns virtual roundtables. There's a lot that goes into it and there's also just a lot that goes into managing remotely. And so I think a lot of people had to rethink their strategy because they did high, you know, sdrs are traditionally younger, right out of college types of people and and going remote again, we've been doing it for the last seven years. It's not easy. We made every mistake in the book, but you know, because it's a grind, you've got to have engagement, you've got to have management, you've got to have kind of real time communication with your team and it's not as easy as it sounds. Yeah, and we were talking a little bit before recording that, like, it's kind of like the rise of the scr I felt like sdrs weren't getting much respect the last several years and I feel like in the last year or two you're starting to hear more and more people talk about how much respect that they deserve. You're talking about how tough the job is, you know, they're getting, I feel more training, there's more kind of thought leadership going out in that space that you see folks like, you know, kevin Dorsey is the first person that comes to mind just on linkedin as being someone that really just talks about the sales, development, craft or morgan in room or folks like that. So I'd love to hear you talk about you being in that world before. It was cool like how much, how tough of a job that is and how important it is. Well, it's extremely difficult. Um and you know, are taken that is we are having mature business conversations with primarily, you know, decision makers at the mid market and enterprise and these are not the, you know, bells and whistle conversations. This is not the technical soup to nuts. These are problems that are, you know, clients solve for people other people similar to the accounts that we call in on their behalf so that it's important to take an account this approach for that reason. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. In regards to why Sdrs are so fat valuable. It is a very difficult job to find the right person, identify the right team within the right organization and then successfully get them to answer their phone and take a meeting with a perfect stranger. So some people can open doors and some people can close them and just because you can do wine doesn't mean you can do both. So the, you know, the majority of Sdrs are hired and they grind it out for about a year, year and a half and then they get promoted to an A and with the pandemic, you know, and with teams going virtually and these being younger, less experienced people, they saw a huge decline in production and that doesn't scale for us. So we hire more...

...experienced kind of lifetime cold colors if you will. And so we've seen a pretty big increase in business throughout this time. And so, you know, you don't want to talk about positive things around the pandemic, but there are several things that have actually come out of this that have been that are moving in the right direction as far as people working remotely. But it really has exposed how painful it is to not have good qualified leads for your sales teams. So you think it's a mistake just in general, like for the for the VPs of sales that might be listening or directors sales, like do you think it's a mistake that we have it segmented that the most junior people are always the ones that have the first interaction with the prospect or customer And it's the more senior people that close versus doing it based on skill. It seems to just be a tenure thing rather than skill in most companies. 100%. Or as my teenager would say 100 king, 100 king. That's very new. Cool word. That teenager, she's now king or queen. Okay, Okay. I'll have to write that down. Next teenager used to use it. They'll be amazed. So why do you think that, like, do you see any organizations do it this way? Like why? Why does it have to be that this way? Rarely? Um, it has. That's a great question that I'm not really sure the answer to other than the almighty budget. So the budget is allocated and the sales reps and don't get me wrong cells, reps should absolutely be compensated for their efforts. It's not easy to close deals, but it's also not easy to open the door. And oftentimes the SDR is busier in a more consistent all day manner. You know, doing this stuff. I think that inbound people, I think that that young people absolutely can do inbound and that's a great way for young people to get their piece put in the door to see if cells is something they want to do, whether it be SDR work or e stuff. But I think the individual should be able to decide that for themselves and and based on their ability to be compensated for for it. You know, it's not, we're all not created equal. Some people can we have people on our team that can set 10 to 15 qualified cold outbound meetings a week and that that we absolutely compensate them for that and they have no motivation to go elsewhere because if they went elsewhere a in that role, they would be paid a lot less and be, you know, they're not looking to get into the I. E. Position. I mean, you know, if I had to pick which I like best, I like the str role. However, I have to do both. You know, not as much cold calling these days. However, I do love it. But you know, if I had to pick one, I would pick that because it's an easier process to find the right person and generate that initial interest with the right buyer persona. So no, within...

...the right organization and, and then you leave it to the other guy or about to to walk through the cell cycle, which can be a pain in the ass at times, you know? Yeah, It feels like a broken process just in general of how sales structures are because you have the young people doing the SDR work and it might be great at it and then they get to be an A. And they're not good at closing or they're not good at opening and they might be good at closing, but you just don't know yet. And then the next step, you have all these days that you just hire the best they eat to be the sales manager and often here she is not a good leader. And so I almost feel like we're taking it all backwards in that we're promoting people to roles that they're not good at or hiring for the wrong thing and it's, it's all just based on tenure and past performance that versus trying to optimize people and put people in the right seats based on their natural skill set. I would agree with you. And I also think that organizations heavily reliant marketing and, and usually bigger brands are pretty safe to assume that they're going to get good inbound leads based on brand recognition and marketing efforts. However, if you don't have that, a lot of our clients are startups, it doesn't work that well. And so even, you know, even though traditionally you think let's hire this big marketing team and have them generate massive amounts amounts of inbound leads. But if it's a new disruptive technology, it's something that people don't know about. They may not even be searching for that kind of thing. So the ads may never eat, Not even hit their screen. Say yeah. Do most teams that you work with at demands end? Do they, are they outsourcing all of like the vast majority of their SDR work with you or is it a compliment to what they have? I'm just absolutely, you know, it's a mixed bag, but it's absolutely complimentary. So you know, we are more of an extension of their internal team. Sometimes clients will hire us because they have so many inbound leads and they're sdrs are picking the low hanging fruit and you know, like if you have leads in your sales force that haven't been touched in two or two months plus, Then just turn them over to us and let us see what we can do with them and nine times out of 10 that goes very well because there's lots of stuff that isn't just responded to all females or one call. Yeah, I was formerly in the selling, you know, intended data and demand gin and it was wild how often you would talk to a marketing or sales leader and you said the last thing we need is more leads. We can't even follow up with the ones that we have today because their business has seen such growth. And so to your point rather than going out and hiring 20 new sdrs that, you know, five of them will turn out to be good or, or like sales and the other 15 might not, or might not be a fit like go give it to the best cold colors in the business, which I imagine is who you have. I'd love to, I'd love to meet some of the...

...people that work there because I'm not a great cold collar and that's just such a scale that I admire people that can just go after it all day long. And, And uh, I grew up in 10-15 appointments in a week. That's just so impressive. You know, it's pretty amazing to watch because we, so we've integrated Salesforce with slack. So every time they set a meeting in cells and they put it into salesforce, it's slacks into the meetings scheduled channel and they just started flowing through all day and there's all these emojis and GIFs and everybody's cheering each other and it's really um Lynn Wick, who is our VP of Operations, has created an amazing culture to a, to your point on intent data. I wanted to respond to that quickly. We love intent data. We started using intent data like six years ago with the big willow, if you may have heard of them, they were purchased by Aberdeen but we would get it in a spreadsheet and like I found this crazy data storage project for one of our clients for Wells Fargo in like this tiny little town in Ohio. And they had this big marketing arm there and they had all this this video and marketing stuff that you know they had all this data storage, you know they and so it was like wow this is really amazing. This turns a cold call into a warm call. So we use it as often as possible. I'm constantly testing new providers but what we do with that data and and this is so it's very difficult to monetize intent data digitally from what my clients and they have told me so we take that data to your point we you say abc company is you know in markets surging whatever you want to call it for, you know blah blah blah in columbus Ohio. And then we go to linkedin, it's not rocket science, it's just work. But you go to Lincoln, you find, you know the person at abc company in columbus Ohio who would who would be potentially looking for something like this and then you call them and um we just did a case study and that's not too long ago with our clients benefits um there in HR software and six cents which is an A. B. M. Intense Data provider. And um the results were amazing. It was like 1.6 million and pipe to deals closed and this is just over a very short period of time. So I think it's called the intent data. Yeah. No I think it's I think it's one of the greatest things to happen in in for like inside sales people and for marketers in a while because it just removes all of the if you're calling someone and just hoping that they have a project right? You're hoping that timing is always the toughest part of, of reaching out prospecting. So if, you know, like you just kind of pick, they used to kind of compared to like you just pick it up. Like it's a report that you found like on the bus next to you, right? It's like you just happen to come across this information and so, you know that, you know, Amanda has a project coming up or her team does, then it's like you're not going to say, hey, this provider told me you have a but like...

...you have that information and then that gives you the confidence to at least know that you're talking to the right person or the right team at the right time. And it's just like can really skyrocket results. So I think it's a, it's an amazing technology. Zenefits has a great marketing team and so they really tracked every single thing they know where everything is coming from and the deals that we got them into had not responded to any other form of legion. So no response to adds no response to emails, no response to anything. And you know, but they responded to a cold call and so, you know, you have to have all the channels, you have to have them. But but why would you not be calling people that are signaling that, that they are most likely in the buying cycle for what you're doing? It got him into deals a lot earlier to than they would have gotten into like at the very beginning of the process. There's nothing worse than getting in on a deal at the last minute. I had that call earlier this morning. He was like, I've already talked to five other providers and somebody mentioned that I should talk to you guys. So I only have 10 minutes. I'm like, well I just knew you were in market two weeks ago. I don't know if there's an intent data yet for for what you folks do. Usually it's like on that. No, there is absolutely. There is, yeah, there is. Yeah. So this is that this is the craziest thing that's ever happened to me as far as intent data gays. But this should show everybody in the world that intent data works. So I, I got a lead through our website and it was a perfect company for us and went through the cell cycle ended up closing the deal. But The day before that, I had just tested a new intense provider and I screwed up on my parameters. I made like the company size like just like like 50-75 employees or something wonky like that. And the one person that showed up in the report was the person that came in through the website, wow, I didn't call her, I didn't reach out to her and she, she just threw her searching efforts. Found us. But I mean that's, that's pretty powerful. I mean to have an experience that's legit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the prospect, I told her about it and she thought it was super cool as well. So I know that she's gone down the intent data journey as well based on that experience. Yeah, that's super cool. My last question, I know we're getting short on time is that I always ask folks, is for the revenue collected podcast, like there's so many ways that the members use revenue collective, right. Whether it's a connecting with others, one on one or groups or slacks or God knows what. So I'm just curious like do you have a philosophy on, on just whether it's revenue collective or just networking in general that has benefited your career to this point? So I think hard work has played a major...

...role in it. But you know, I think revenue collective is a great organization. I've learned a lot and I like to feel that I've also contributed. I had a call this morning with a girl who was a member. She had posted something about, this is her second time hiring an sTR team and it's not going well and it's failing and you know, and helped her to kind of diagnose some of the reasons that it could be. But I've also just learned a lot from people and it helped me not reinvent the bill over and over and over again. Me and my amazing team who does more will inventing these days than I do. But yeah, it's, I've garnished a lot of great connections as well as just learning from it. Yeah, 100 100 Queen daughter will be so embarrassed. Maybe I can post this to instagram. Yeah, yeah, there you go. A tiktok even better. Hashtag Kathleen moore. Oh man, this is awesome for anyone that wants to connect with, you, learn more about, you know, you or, and, or demands and what would be the best place for folks to reach out to you? Yes. Send me an email, a more a M R E at demand zen. That Z E N dot com. I love it. Is that, uh, was that just like obviously a play on words with demand gen? But is there any sort of like, like zen philosophy going in there or am I over complicating? Well, I would say demand generation is anything but zen tom however we have made it as soon as possible for our team. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Thanks so much Amanda. This is great. Yeah, it was fun. Thank you Tom. All right. Thanks for tuning into that podcast. You can learn more about us. If you go to Apple podcast, you can subscribe, leave a five star review. You can hit me up on linkedin. I'm tom delay my work over at gone and one last shout out to our sponsor. This episode was brought to you by quota path, quota. Path is the first radically transparent and and compensation solution from sales reps to finance. Get started for free at dot com slash revenue dash collective. We'll see you next monday piece season. Yeah.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (262)