The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 48: Leveling Up Your First-Time Leaders w/ Derek Jankowski

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Ep 48: Leveling Up Your First-Time Leaders w/ Derek Jankowski

Alright, folks. Happy Monday. Welcome back to another episode of the revenue collective podcast host Tom Alamo and I am here to help you level up. Learn from some of the best leaders in the revenue world to help you get better at your job. Right? Learned new tactics here from their stories and ultimately up level and make yourself more valuable to your organization into the market and so really quickly. Before we get into today's episode, I do want to talk about our sponsor. This month. Sponsor is six cents. Six cents is the number one and count engagement platform that helps you identify accounts that are in market for your solution. Prioritize your efforts, engage buyers the right way with highly relevant messaging and measure what actually matters with the Sixth Sense platform. You're able to get into more deals. Improved one rates, increased overall pipeline and optimized budget spent. To learn more, visit six cents dot com slash Revenue Club Now for today's guest. I've got Derek Jankowski. Derek cut his teeth in the sales world at Dell had socked doc indeed dot com and what he's probably most known for his his largest chunk of time was over at patient pop. He spent five years. They're coming from an E to ultimately running their entire sales development team, which was 27. Perhaps talking about, you know, he created the scripts, the processes, the playbooks, you know, followed in. Justin Walsh's footsteps was a great friend of revenue collective and of the podcast. Just as of last year. Derek, uh, left that role and is now a creator, an entrepreneur at the next level sales leadership project. In short, you know, new sales managers do not get a lot of training. They do not learn how to lead people very well. I can speak firsthand from experience, and I do in this episode what my experience was like and it was really challenging. It was really hard. Derek Schools to help. Essentially, you know, the new or the newest sales leaders get the knowledge and skills they need to be more successful and faster. He's got a weekly podcast. He's got a weekly newsletter. You could check him out. The best place is probably linked in linkedin dot com slash derek Jankowski. We talk about you know why he's spending his winter right now in the brutal, brutal Midwest, but more seriously about his career path. What he's doing for sales leaders, what the problem is and how he's helping to up level new leaders and what that can mean for your organization. So if you are a V P or C suite person, why should you be training up your front line managers? And if you are front line manager, how do you survive? And how do you actually thrive in 2021 keeping all of the pressures that you have. So, without further ado, we're going to bring you to this episode with Derek. If you found any value and what we talk about, I would just love if you hit five star review for this podcast on Apple, I can also hit me up. I'm Tom Alamo unlinked in. So without further ado, let's get into my conversation with Derek Jankowski like all right, Derek Jankowski. Welcome to the revenue Collective podcast. How you doing this evening? Calm. I'm great, man. Thanks so much for having me. How you doing, man? I'm doing well. I'm doing what I'm doing a lot better knowing that I am in, uh, 60 degree san Francisco, you are in a snow storm. Uh, it sounds like somewhere in Michigan, and I, for one, would be happy. I'm not a part of that. It's interesting. My wife and I were talking about going flooding this morning, and I said so, you know, there's no snow, and then now we have two inches or we might get up to 2 ft overnight. So I'm gonna say that. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't take much, Uh, call out that there may or may not be snow in February in Michigan, but we'll give you some credit for it right...

...there. So I'm excited to chat with you today and touch on a number of different topics. Where I wanted to do was was set kind of a baseline for the early stages of your career before we get more into what you're doing today. So looks like you started Dell coming straight out of school. Is that right? Like a Dell sales rep? Yeah. So I actually sold in college. Um, randomly. So business Major got a random phone call to do the sales internship, and I spent my summers selling educational books and software door to door 80 100 100 hours a week, and I spent most of my school semesters calling alumni to ask for donations. I inevitably ended up managing teams for both of those organizations. So when I graduated, I mean, I was a bit of a party here in school. My grades weren't as good as they were in high school, will say, and sales was just It was natural. I had all this experience. Dell recruit on campus already had friends who have been often. So I moved out there and sold technology to businesses for two years small, medium business. And then when my wife got into grad school at in New York, my girlfriend at the time, we decided that we would move there and I joined my first startup, which was a hotdog of the 35th higher. You know, sales hires were somewhere in the single digit wasn't a lot. There's no process or anything like that and helped sell that product to help build out the process around what ended up being four different types of inside buildings. S T r e, I can't remember them all right now. And then there was, like a basically account management was in sales and there was a junior account management role. Anyway, another believing doc Doc went to indeed realized they don't like big companies. And then my friend Justin Welch became VP of sales at patient Pop, and he gave me a call. I was his first outside hire. Second sales, higher patient pop. It was a nine person company that, in retrospect, we're trying to figure out if there was product market fit. Seemed like there was. I told the doctors for several years at Doc, Doc. So it looks like an excellent product. Spent a year and a half selling that won a couple awards. And then they asked me to come out to L. A and open up thus the our department. So I came out. And now hold on before we get before we get into that, because I want to. I do want to spend some time on that story once you moved to L. A. But before you get there because Justin Walsh is a good friend of the show actually ran this show in a former life. Some of the first few episodes of the podcast tell me why you think he called you as you said. What? His His first or second higher at patient pop. Why? Was it you? What? Why? Why what stood out about you? Do you think from your relationship with him? Uh, like I can tell you what he told me, which is that he knew I could get access to doctors. So it's selling into the into the medical space. Access is the hard part. Getting a decision maker on the phone is the hard part. Somebody answers the phone 80% of the time where you walk into the office and there's if they're open, you talk to somebody, it's just never the person that you want. And because I had worked at Doc Doc and actually worked with him, I was his, you know, effectively his SDR when he was a territory rat. So it worked closely together. He knew what my work ethic was like. He knew what I could do and then if I just came to patient pop and did that. But I could learn the parts that I didn't know how to do. That's interesting. So by the time between when he was an A E and and, uh, the VP of sales. You still stuck out to him as your your abilities as an SDR as...

...someone that he wanted us one of the first hires to get in there to break through to, you know, break through and have those conversations with doctors. Yeah, I feel really good about it. The way that you're saying, I think that's great. I I'm always interested in when, you know, leaders go somewhere else, and they bring their people with them. But they don't bring everyone right. They bring a select few, they bring the people that stood out. So I'm always curious why that might have been and why, um, you know what his pitch was for you or or why he picked up the phone to call you. I'd love to hear you now that we've kind of, uh, digress a little bit, but get into the piece of moving across the country because this is certainly, uh where I think we want to spend a lot of time. Oh, sure. So I approached Justin when I was in New York, and I said, Hey, you know, I want to be a VP of films. One day. I want to move up. How do I make that happen? And he said, What would you be willing to move out to? LA and my wife and I had already discussed that we were We were at that point in New York were just a little bit over it with a lot of friends we knew we would miss. But it was crowded and we wanted to. Manu and Jessica, my wife had always want to live in California. So I just said yes to him and he came back to me. I don't know. I don't remember how long it took a few weeks or a month or two or something. They texted me and said, Would you be interested in, You know, managing a large str team And I don't recommend doing what I did here. I just said yes. No negotiation. So it worked out. I mean, I've had as many as 27 people report directly to me, you know, and I don't think I mean, that wasn't intentional, but I trusted Justin and I trusted myself. I knew that whatever it was, I would I would figure it out. So we moved out to L. A. And, uh, they had hired five wraps. Derek, here's your team. And there were a handful of eighties there, and the company at the time was mostly field wraps, which is what I did. Um, when I was a patient pop as a field drop in when I was in sales at patient Pop as a field drop in New York. Right. So I talked to these raps. I'd actually do my first one on one with them sitting on the floor of my New York apartment while the movers pack the truck. Because I knew that I had to walk into the office with credibility and knowing the individual people on the team as well as What are the biggest things I'm gonna need to work on. So one on ones, Why are you here? What are you excited about? What's working with not and no surprise. But there was no process, not really training. They were learning how to do the job by listening on under equal and all the eighties were doing different things. And that's fine when you're experienced salespeople. You know why you go down this track versus this track. But these these SDRs had never sold anything before for the most part, and so they didn't have the judgment yet to understand why you should use this track versus that one or say this versus that I had to come in. And I mean, I was working 12 hour days for the first few weeks just to build out the playbook, the scripting. How should Onboarding look? What should hiring look like? It was just like, what are the biggest problems? Just work on that. Get something in place because something, even if it's not perfect and it never will be. But the imperfect thing in place is better than you know, nothing. And you said that, you know, you're not sure that you would have done it the same way if you know if this situation happened now or knowing what you know...

...now. But would you not say that there's kind of that yes attitude that Justin was hoping for from you, and that if you if you may be asked too many questions or push back that maybe you'd say, Well, Derek's not my guy, I'll go find someone else. I mean, I'm just kind of thinking about this from a career perspective for the folks that are young listening to this young and hungry that, you know, maybe don't have a lot of experience and are waiting for their shot. They're waiting for their break. I actually would have done the same thing as you. So I'm curious. If you have a thought on that, maybe the answer is different. If you're an established leader for two decades, Yeah. So first, I don't regret doing what I did. I would not go back and, you know, drastically change it. I think for most people, you probably want to know. Well, what is a big team? How many people is that? What are the expectations? But I have to agree with your point about the yes attitude contrasting my experience with some other leaders that got promoted at patient pop, who negotiated really hard. You know, this person was a top rap. We wanted them to be in leadership and they pushed really hard for various things, right, salary, whatever it is. Those people pretty much always failed. And I don't know exactly the relationship between those things, but I feel like somebody who who thinks the way that I do about that opportunity where you're like, you're you're offering it to me. I'm going to accept on the spot. We'll figure out the details. That's also somebody who's going to figure out how to do the job when they get stuck. I don't think that that's most people, and I don't know. Millions of people do this kind of job. And can most people walk in cold and figure out how to be a manager on a brand new team with, you know, almost no on boarding at a startup that changes all the time? Probably not, you know, And that's not anything to be ashamed of or anything. It's just as humans. We, you know, typically, Are you still learning a certain way? We need resources and support? Not totally. No, it does not. It doesn't. You know, I felt that same pain of, uh, you know, coming in as a leader unprepared, right? It was a very similar situation where it's like I was, maybe even I was more aggressive than you were of of saying like Hey, I'm I'm ready. I want to get to the next step. I want to get to the next level like I want to get into leadership, and then you're given that chance. And I was actually a player coach for about 18 months, which don't even get me started on that. But, uh, I guess the point of where I'm going is that there there was no there was no training. There was no guidance on that, right? It was like, Well, you know how you've been managed in the past. You know that what your team's quota is, Go figure it out, go get it done. And you know, it's interesting because we did ultimately get it done from a numbers perspective. But I've and I've told this story before, but I always found the interpersonal relationships and communication to be so much harder than just hitting the number, right? Like it wasn't for me about what I thought it was going to be about. Just creating, you know, these plays and closing deals and doing all these strategic stuff. It was like, No, well, you know, this person is dating this person, that we're both on the team together or, you know, this person's, you know, showing up an hour late, and this other person's you know, got this big heavy, uh, you know, family issue that's going on like all these different interpersonal things that come up Because, like you said, we're all human, right? And so I was not as a 20. What was I, 24 25 year old, ready to handle...

...those types of difficult situations. So I feel your pain. Yeah. And you know, to be really frank, like, I'm fortunate that I had some experience managing people before doing that. I don't know. Justin knew that or not. But when he plugged him into the individual contributor role, my on boarding was Here's a laptop. Watch me do one demo. Let me know if you have any questions. And I have. And as a company, we were figuring out how to sell the product. So yes, often tons of questions, basically nonstop, you know, And other rats Over time, he did well until I was the resource for new reps. But I did figure that out. And had that proves experience when I came out to LA I could apply that I knew. You know, I've had tough conversations about stupid things like you know, you can't come in late. You can't say that, or if you're going to come in late, let me know. Or you can't say that in a workplace, you know, like you do have to be professional, even though it's super cash here, right? And I can only imagine where I in your situation. I don't I don't know that I would have made it 25 never managed anybody carrying my own personal number and have to do all of these management tasks. That sounds stressful, and I mean, good for good for you, for knocking it out. But I don't recommend that most companies duclair coaches like It's just the jobs are so vastly different, and what it takes to do well at them is so vastly different, and people can have both of them. But it's like, should you know, you don't want your architects to also be a carpenter. Changing modes like that is really challenging. Go be an excellent architect and let the carpenters do their job, you know? Yeah, I always felt like, you know, I was doing 80% of both jobs. He's like, we'll give you pretty good at both, but I I can't be great at both at the same time. You know, I could be great at one if I devote all my attention to it. But anyways, this, you know, podcast isn't about me, but that's just mine. That's just my thoughts on it. So you had a really successful track at patient pop, right? You mean 27 people directly reporting to you as a ton? I mean, I feel like the rule of thumb is usually, like in the 8 to 10 ballpark. No. Yeah, it's the optimal number. So you've had, you know, 3.5 times. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I don't recommend that anybody do that, you know, it was an emergency situation, you know, And I think I held the ship together for the 30 days until we got somebody else in. But who would have been had if, yes, we would have had smaller teams for sure. So I'm seeing, you know, via LinkedIn. I know we we had had communicated around that time of last year, but I'm seeing, you know, march. You leave patient Poppy, you found and become a creator. Essentially. You see that? This is a problem right in in a lot of businesses that your experience is actually more common than you think. In a lot of ways, where you came in on untrained on coach and the management system is is really, I think, kind of broken at a lot of companies. And leadership is So tell me the story there of how you win or how you made the decision to go from, you know, patient pop. You know, one of the the hottest startups out there for sure in the US to want to go out on your own, timing that with, you know, obviously the global pandemic that we're in and everything else that's going on now you launched, uh, you had a huge event last year. You know, your own private, uh, coaching that was going on. So, like, how did all that? What was the timeline for all that? How does that look? Yeah, so,...

...yeah, so here's what happened. Covid hits in March. Nobody's buying patient pumps products. They pivot to white, labeling a much less expensive product and are struggling to sell that. I had some people say that this is foolish, but I had told my boss that was looking for a job because I felt capped out like I wasn't growing and had a really good relationship with my boss at the time. Katie Kevin Dorsey, Who's, uh, probably doing this podcast. He's a chapter head of our CNN LA Yeah, Katie is great, and I, you know, I appreciate that we had a good enough relationship where that could be open with him and talk about what we're going to do. Well, Covid hits and I'm like, Okay, patient pop is going to have big layoffs if this thing keeps up and I think it's going to keep up. So I literally convinced myself that it would be a good thing for me if I was one of the people that got laid off because I could start a business. This is one of the things I've wanted to do my whole life. And so it happened. And of course, it wasn't easy. You know, they got they eliminated 25% of the workforce or something. Basically all of the newest people, and then me the most expensive, you know, manager who's already got a foot out the door. And so I took. I took the weekend to, let's say, Call it emotionally recover. And then Monday I was already back to work. It was brainstorming what our actual challenges out in the world that I have a unique experience I could use to address and solve for people. My brain started a bunch of staff and I stumbled upon this. I kept coming back to this leadership problem. I kept remembering how hard it was for me that we promoted all these other leaders. I mean, a lot of people who are still there are excellent. We promoted some people before that. It just didn't become successful leaders, you know, they end up going back to being a rep because because they couldn't make it. And I had regret that I didn't step in and help them at the time. So I said, What if What if I can just do something now to help people in that situation? So I had this idea. I wanted to see if other people cared about solving this problem right enough to take action. So I put together a virtual summit and I reached out to we got I want to say 22 speakers, 1000 attendees and put that together in about four weeks. Those numbers told me that in fact, yes, people would be interested in something to solve that problem. So the next thing I did is I posted on LinkedIn, and I spun up a pilot group for what I'm right now what I'm calling the next level leadership mastermind and I'll talk about that is in a second, but highlighted that with 10 people and went through and just really said, I don't know what I'm doing here. You know, I'm going to present content to help you guys solve your problems. We're all going to jump in, and everyone else should feel free to pitch in to. And let's just see what's helpful and what that's turned into today is a weekly call where we focus on new leader. So first two or three years on the job, you can show up to that call and bring a business challenge. How do I hire for this new role? Or how do I know if my sales process is broken? How do I have this hard conversation with a rat or a manager or appear,...

...and the group can pitch it on that and I'll draw from my experience as well and give advice. Can do one off calls. Help people sort of role. Play that conversation so they can have it once or twice in a realistic setting before having the real one. I also present what I'm calling. Many trainings plug 15 minutes. Sometimes it here's everything that I know about managing up. I've learned from my revenue collective mentor over 10, but I learned that patient pop from people there from bosses. Here's everything that I recommend that you do. Last week we did a calendar tear down quarterly, and I still do this. I tear apart my entire calendar, reprioritized my life and then rebuild my calendar in the next 45 days are always two or three times more productive than the previous 45 days, you know, and then it degrades after that because you get more and more meetings and and whatever. So people have found that to be really, really helpful. It wasn't the mastermind is, And that's my primary focus right now. And comparing that with the next level sales leadership podcast where I interview people about their first couple years with sales leaders What mistakes did you make? What do you wish you knew? You know things like that. What's the common thing? We talked earlier about the mistakes or the difficulties that you know, I found as a as a first year sales manager. What are some of the common things that people come to the group and obviously don't name names or specific examples? But I'm curious if there's common threads that you see that, uh, these folks are coming into the calls and everyone seems to be struggling with with X, or why does anything come to mind on the mastermind? Calls are in the podcast interviews I met the mastermind calls, but really neither yet so in the podcast, I'll start there. There's a couple things that seem to come up almost every single episode. So the first one is a tendency to become a super rap, and this happens even with people who aren't player coaches. But like you talked about, you were. I think that's what you said you were in the trenches, helping your raps with a ton of their own deal. Super rap is like, you know, I want to put everybody on my back and guilty do their job for them. I'll jump in and take over a call. You know when you're going wrong and it turns out that's actually the worst thing that you can do in most cases. Because when you take over a call for your rap, and this is especially true if it's a like a bread and butter deal, and this is like the biggest deal the company has ever had. Different story jump in if they're losing it. But it's better to lose a bread and butter deal and then learn from it than it is to take. Take it over when you take it over, neither you as the leader, grow. Nor does the rap actually grow. So you haven't gained anything except for a short term deal, and that's really hard. That's really hard. I mean, most of the people that manages their first sales job, and I'm listening to them on the phone. They don't even sound like themselves sometimes, and those first few weeks it's really bad, and you have to let them fail and help them get better. And then the other thing that comes up a lot is the changed dynamic when you suddenly are the boss of people that you are friends with. Oh, yeah. So I had, like, hook on the episode that came out this week, and I don't know...

...your production schedule. So that came out like, uh, you know, February 6th or seventh Love, my cook is great. We actually met. I think their revenue clocked in and we're pretty good friends now. And so I ask him to come on because his story is so good. He made huge mistakes when he took over that team and did his best to fix them. And I recommend anybody go listen to his story because there's so much you can learn from that. The dynamic changes because you're the boss and sometimes you're just you're going to lose friends in that case, And that's a conversation you want to have with your boss. You know, potentially for getting in there because some people just can't bridge that gap when you're at work. You're responsible for this person, you know, and and their number, and you might have to fire them. And firing people is the worst part of being a leader. The second worst part. But you might have to, and you can't let be in front of them. Prevent you from protecting the business Is everybody else relies on the business. Did you say it's the second worst part? What's the worst? The worst part is when you don't fire the person that you should fire. Yeah, I've been there. That's like it's bad for everybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a situation where the the team is Then in my first year that, you know, the there was clearly some loosened standards on one person of the team because I was probably afraid of that confrontation, afraid of pulling that trigger. And everyone else is, you know, we're being held to a different standard, and it kind of caused unrest within the rest of the team, you know, which makes a lot of sense. Um, and I didn't see it until it was said to me, And then, you know, we had we ended up making some moves, but that's a huge one. Not having those conversations, I feel like, uh, you know, by dragging it out, it only hurts everyone else around you. Yeah, and I found that you have to have the hard conversation immediately. Early. You know, somebody shows up to work five minutes late, doesn't tell you it sounds petty. It really it sounds petty, and it can feel petty. You've got to say, like, Hey, man, like you've got to set the tone for what's acceptable and what's not. And it's in many cases has to be a hard line, and that doesn't mean you can't be flexible. You know, personal things happened. You don't have to come in. I want to work with you. But you just got to communicate because if I'm counting on you to be here and you're not here, we had a kid. God, I can't believe you tell that story. We had a guy. That's what that I said. I want to hear it. We had a guy in training. I think I think our onboarding was two weeks at the time, and he just didn't come in that second Monday and I was legitimately worried. I called this guy, texted him. I had other people do that. No response. I'm on Google like I looked up his address in HR system so I could look on Google and see if there's a car accident. You know what I mean? Like, I was worried this kid got hurt. No one ever heard from him. He walked in the next day on Tuesday as if nothing had happened. Peppy. He sits on a conference room, everyone. Good morning. And, you know, it's like he was at least honest with me if I pull him out of that room immediately. And dude, what? What happened? So he was honest with me, which I appreciate. He was hungover, and he woke up late, and as the sex came in, he felt worse and worse and, you know, and he just didn't have the...

...whatever it is, fortitude or whatever to text back. Well, I tried really hard to find a reason to keep him on the team, but ultimately, you know, I had to let him go, because, like, you just can't have. When you're trying to build a world class organization, you have to have standards, and everybody has to follow them. Couldn't agree more. I was I was curious what was gonna happen at the end of that story, and you made the right decision. Um, so So let's say I'm a VP of sales right now, right? I'm kicking off. 2021. Got ambitious goals were growing the headcount. We've just promoted five A s to be managers or SDRs to be SDR leaders or whatever it might be like. Why? I guess we've covered why It's probably helpful to give them some sort of training, but, like, what do I do? You know, like, do I go out and buy them the latest? You know, Simon cynic or brown a brown book like, Do I bring someone in to to talk to us? Do I invest in a consulting group? Like what? You know, I'm the VP and like I've got, you know, I'm bought in on on the on the problem here. But what do I do? All right, if if money and time are infinite, which I know isn't the case. But the ideal situation is give somebody a full course of on boarding that includes So think about how you onboard wraps in a In an organization, we have things kind of figured out. What our expectations, What is the job? And for frontline managers, the job is training and coaching. That's the number one thing. So how do you do that? So can you. Do you have the time and the resources to train that manager on doing that? Then what does the sales process look like if you're a very early stage company like the ones that I've had the most fun at, like Dr Occupation Pop? There was no formalized process. I made up most of the process, but once you get everybody doing roughly the same thing, your output is much more consistent, predictable. It's much more scalable, so you don't have a process, then you want this person to go build it. If you do have it, you want this person that to understand how to tweak it so that is consistently improving. How do you have tough conversations, right? Like my conversation. But with that guy who didn't show up on that day was a really hard conversation for both of us. A manager needs to understand that avoiding conflict and confrontation makes the problem worse, But then they also have to understand how to have those conversations. And I'll be the first to admit I in my early days and maybe still tend to err on the side of being too direct, and I think it's easier to actually be a little too direct and then walk it back a little than it is to be too gentle and have somebody misunderstand you. But it's going to be different for different personalities. Your new manager has to know how to do that, and then they're going to have to know how to interview and hire. They're going to have to know how to fire. Would call those the six core skills coaching, training process. Hard conversations, hiring, firing. Now if you have the time and money to bring in somebody to train everybody, that's awesome. Do it. You know, if you have the time to work with them every week and help those managers get better, do it. But if your organization is like the ones I've been part of, my one on one with my managers either got pushed off or were mostly focused on tactical...

...troubleshooting or, you know, have a project and there's a bottleneck and I'm asking for help, and we spent an hour a week on those things, and I didn't get development unless I cleared space for it. Because VPs of sales directors of sales have so much going on, I think that they're not usually able to give new managers the attention that they need, So there's a lot of great books out there. I can recommend a trillion books number. The number one book that every sales manager should read is a cracking the sales management code that's going to take you through the process in metrics. That's what I read on the plane to California. You know, it's number one when I built the mastermind. And this isn't, you know, probably listening. I'm not like this isn't a commercial for the mastermind, but this is why I think it's important is that there didn't seem to be something between Go read a book and having a mentor right there was like training. You can go to training, and I've been through. Some of these were used. You have five full days and you learn a lot of content. But just like with the book, when you absorb all this content, when you try to apply this theory to the real world, what's the Mike Tyson quote? Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the nose. Mm hmm. Right. Well, the book says to do this. I think Katie tease me a little bit when I did one of these, Like the book says to do that Well, yeah, but when you do it, it doesn't work. So you have to figure out why. You know, like, what's missing? And I think this is what people appreciate the mastermind as they show up when they're like, Okay, I read that book, but I don't know how to specifically apply it to my situation. Here's what's happening and we're actually able to troubleshoot that without, you know, something costing thousands of dollars. Yeah, I love it. I love it up. So as we're wrapping up here, um, I want to just get into one last thing, which is obviously, folks here listen to the revenue collective podcast. They want to learn about different revenue and leadership types of things like we've been talking about. I think another piece of it is is networking right and using a group like revenue collective, and there's other groups and social networks and places to engage. I'd be curious if you just have maybe one tip or maybe just explain a little bit and help me understand how you leverage revenue, collective and networking to do your job better and to grow your career personally. Yeah, so a few ways, I mean, you know, I said the where I have found the most value, especially when I was in the leadership role. When I had a specific challenge, I would just go on to the flak and look out Search, Go search for the problem that you have. There's probably somebody already talking about it. Read everything that's in that flak about that topic. And then, you know, one thing I did next is I would just slack a specific person. No, it's okay, Father. You talked about this. Would you be willing to jump on a 15 minute zoom and let me ask you some more questions? You know, here's what's happening with me like and people are really cool. You know, sometimes people can't, but if you ask one or two or three people, you're going to get one or two on the phone. It's an excellent way to learn, you know, from somebody's direct experience in that specific space on the specific problem. You know, aside from that, I mean, I get podcast guests off of it, too. And that's really fun. And I've learned a lot about consulting. I'd like to do a little bit of consulting as well. Yeah, I love it. I love it. All right, Derek, you've been super generous with your time. With...

...your insights. Could you let everyone that's listening know where they can find you, where they can learn more about? You know, the mastermind that you have going the podcast If they just want to chat with you, You know, maybe there's some fellow Michigan nights. I don't know if that's a word, but we it is. Now what is that? Is that really okay? If there's any of those, it's the best place to find it. You know, the best thing is linked in the linkedin dot com slash iron slash Derek Yankowski, or just search Derek Kankowski and you can message me there. You can hit me on the RC slack. If you want to learn about the mastermind. Best thing to do is go to my LinkedIn page and there's a link to it under the featured section. And then, you know, for anyone in revenue collective like if you want to join hit me up, and I'll make sure that the first month is on me. I want to eliminate that friction and show you how useful the bigger it is. That's awesome. That's really generous. Uh, Derek, I appreciate you coming on the show. This was great. I had a good a good laugh. I learned a lot, and I appreciate you sharing some of your knowledge with us. Of course, man. Appreciate you have a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Cheers. All right. Thanks for tuning into that episode of the Revenue Collect podcast. Just as another reminder, this episode was brought to you by six cents. Powered by AI and Predictive Analytics. Six cents helps you unite your entire revenue team with a shared set of data to achieve predictable revenue growth. If you liked this episode, please head over to Apple podcast. Give us some love. Five star review. Subscribe. We're on Spotify or on every major podcast channel, so make sure to subscribe. You can also hit me up. I am Tom Alamo. I work over at gonna help out with the revenue collective. You can find me on LinkedIn. I'd love to chat with you until next week. Have a great Monday. Make it a great week. We'll catch you next time. Hey, so say something Mhm.

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