The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

Ep 48: Leveling Up Your First-Time Leaders w/ Derek Jankowski

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Ep 48: Leveling Up Your First-Time Leaders w/ Derek Jankowski

Alright, folks. Happy Monday. Welcomeback to another episode of the revenue collective podcast host Tom Alamo and Iam here to help you level up. Learn from some of the best leaders in therevenue world to help you get better at your job. Right? Learned new tacticshere from their stories and ultimately up level and make yourself morevaluable to your organization into the market and so really quickly. Before weget into today's episode, I do want to talk about our sponsor. This month.Sponsor is six cents. Six cents is the number one and count engagementplatform that helps you identify accounts that are in market for yoursolution. Prioritize your efforts, engage buyers the right way with highlyrelevant messaging and measure what actually matters with the Sixth Senseplatform. You're able to get into more deals. Improved one rates, increasedoverall pipeline and optimized budget spent. To learn more, visit six centsdot com slash Revenue Club Now for today's guest. I've got Derek Jankowski.Derek cut his teeth in the sales world at Dell had socked doc indeed dot comand what he's probably most known for his his largest chunk of time was overat patient pop. He spent five years. They're coming from an E to ultimatelyrunning their entire sales development team, which was 27. Perhaps talkingabout, you know, he created the scripts, the processes, the playbooks, you know,followed in. Justin Walsh's footsteps was a great friend of revenuecollective and of the podcast. Just as of last year. Derek, uh, left that roleand is now a creator, an entrepreneur at the next level sales leadershipproject. In short, you know, new sales managers do not get a lot of training.They do not learn how to lead people very well. I can speak firsthand fromexperience, and I do in this episode what my experience was like and it wasreally challenging. It was really hard. Derek Schools to help. Essentially, youknow, the new or the newest sales leaders get the knowledge and skillsthey need to be more successful and faster. He's got a weekly podcast. He'sgot a weekly newsletter. You could check him out. The best place isprobably linked in linkedin dot com slash derek Jankowski. We talk aboutyou know why he's spending his winter right now in the brutal, brutal Midwest,but more seriously about his career path. What he's doing for sales leaders,what the problem is and how he's helping to up level new leaders andwhat that can mean for your organization. So if you are a V P or Csuite person, why should you be training up your front line managers?And if you are front line manager, how do you survive? And how do you actuallythrive in 2021 keeping all of the pressures that you have. So, withoutfurther ado, we're going to bring you to this episode with Derek. If youfound any value and what we talk about, I would just love if you hit five starreview for this podcast on Apple, I can also hit me up. I'm Tom Alamo unlinkedin. So without further ado, let's get into my conversation with DerekJankowski like all right, Derek Jankowski. Welcome to the revenueCollective podcast. How you doing this evening? Calm. I'm great, man. Thanksso much for having me. How you doing, man? I'm doing well. I'm doing what I'mdoing a lot better knowing that I am in, uh, 60 degree san Francisco, you are ina snow storm. Uh, it sounds like somewhere in Michigan, and I, for one,would be happy. I'm not a part of that. It's interesting. My wife and I weretalking about going flooding this morning, and I said so, you know,there's no snow, and then now we have two inches or we might get up to 2 ftovernight. So I'm gonna say that. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't take much,Uh, call out that there may or may not be snow in February in Michigan, butwe'll give you some credit for it right...

...there. So I'm excited to chat with youtoday and touch on a number of different topics. Where I wanted to dowas was set kind of a baseline for the early stages of your career before weget more into what you're doing today. So looks like you started Dell comingstraight out of school. Is that right? Like a Dell sales rep? Yeah. So Iactually sold in college. Um, randomly. So business Major got a random phonecall to do the sales internship, and I spent my summers selling educationalbooks and software door to door 80 100 100 hours a week, and I spent most ofmy school semesters calling alumni to ask for donations. I inevitably endedup managing teams for both of those organizations. So when I graduated, Imean, I was a bit of a party here in school. My grades weren't as good asthey were in high school, will say, and sales was just It was natural. I hadall this experience. Dell recruit on campus already had friends who havebeen often. So I moved out there and sold technology to businesses for twoyears small, medium business. And then when my wife got into grad school at inNew York, my girlfriend at the time, we decided that we would move there and Ijoined my first startup, which was a hotdog of the 35th higher. You know,sales hires were somewhere in the single digit wasn't a lot. There's noprocess or anything like that and helped sell that product to help buildout the process around what ended up being four different types of insidebuildings. S T r e, I can't remember them all right now. And then there was,like a basically account management was in sales and there was a junior accountmanagement role. Anyway, another believing doc Doc went to indeedrealized they don't like big companies. And then my friend Justin Welch becameVP of sales at patient Pop, and he gave me a call. I was his first outside hire.Second sales, higher patient pop. It was a nine person company that, inretrospect, we're trying to figure out if there was product market fit. Seemedlike there was. I told the doctors for several years at Doc, Doc. So it lookslike an excellent product. Spent a year and a half selling that won a coupleawards. And then they asked me to come out to L. A and open up thus the ourdepartment. So I came out. And now hold on before we get before we get intothat, because I want to. I do want to spend some time on that story once youmoved to L. A. But before you get there because Justin Walsh is a good friendof the show actually ran this show in a former life. Some of the first fewepisodes of the podcast tell me why you think he called you as you said. What?His His first or second higher at patient pop. Why? Was it you? What? Why?Why what stood out about you? Do you think from your relationship with him?Uh, like I can tell you what he told me, which is that he knew I could getaccess to doctors. So it's selling into the into the medical space. Access isthe hard part. Getting a decision maker on the phone is the hard part. Somebodyanswers the phone 80% of the time where you walk into the office and there's ifthey're open, you talk to somebody, it's just never the person that youwant. And because I had worked at Doc Doc and actually worked with him, I washis, you know, effectively his SDR when he was a territory rat. So it workedclosely together. He knew what my work ethic was like. He knew what I could doand then if I just came to patient pop and did that. But I could learn theparts that I didn't know how to do. That's interesting. So by the timebetween when he was an A E and and, uh, the VP of sales. You still stuck out tohim as your your abilities as an SDR as...

...someone that he wanted us one of thefirst hires to get in there to break through to, you know, break through andhave those conversations with doctors. Yeah, I feel really good about it. Theway that you're saying, I think that's great. I I'm always interested in when,you know, leaders go somewhere else, and they bring their people with them.But they don't bring everyone right. They bring a select few, they bring thepeople that stood out. So I'm always curious why that might have been andwhy, um, you know what his pitch was for you or or why he picked up thephone to call you. I'd love to hear you now that we'vekind of, uh, digress a little bit, but get into the piece of moving across thecountry because this is certainly, uh where I think we want to spend a lot oftime. Oh, sure. So I approached Justin when I was in New York, and I said, Hey,you know, I want to be a VP of films. One day. I want to move up. How do Imake that happen? And he said, What would you be willing to move out to? LAand my wife and I had already discussed that we were We were at that point inNew York were just a little bit over it with a lot of friends we knew we wouldmiss. But it was crowded and we wanted to. Manu and Jessica, my wife hadalways want to live in California. So I just said yes to him and he came backto me. I don't know. I don't remember how long it took a few weeks or a monthor two or something. They texted me and said, Would you be interested in, Youknow, managing a large str team And I don't recommend doing what I did here.I just said yes. No negotiation. So it worked out. I mean, I've had as many as27 people report directly to me, you know, and I don't think I mean, thatwasn't intentional, but I trusted Justin and I trusted myself. I knewthat whatever it was, I would I would figure it out. So we moved out to L. A.And, uh, they had hired five wraps. Derek, here's your team. And there werea handful of eighties there, and the company at the time was mostly fieldwraps, which is what I did. Um, when I was a patient pop as a field drop inwhen I was in sales at patient Pop as a field drop in New York. Right. So Italked to these raps. I'd actually do my first one on one with them sittingon the floor of my New York apartment while the movers pack the truck.Because I knew that I had to walk into the office with credibility and knowingthe individual people on the team as well as What are the biggest things I'mgonna need to work on. So one on ones, Why are you here? Whatare you excited about? What's working with not and no surprise. But there wasno process, not really training. They were learning how to do the job bylistening on under equal and all the eighties were doing different things.And that's fine when you're experienced salespeople. You know why you go downthis track versus this track. But these these SDRs had never sold anythingbefore for the most part, and so they didn't have the judgmentyet to understand why you should use this track versus that one or say thisversus that I had to come in. And I mean, I was working 12 hour days forthe first few weeks just to build out the playbook, the scripting. How shouldOnboarding look? What should hiring look like? It was just like, what arethe biggest problems? Just work on that. Get something in place becausesomething, even if it's not perfect and it never will be. But the imperfect thing in place isbetter than you know, nothing. And you said that, you know, you're not surethat you would have done it the same way if you know if this situationhappened now or knowing what you know...

...now. But would you not say that there'skind of that yes attitude that Justin was hoping for from you, and that ifyou if you may be asked too many questions or push back that maybe you'dsay, Well, Derek's not my guy, I'll go find someone else. I mean, I'm justkind of thinking about this from a career perspective for the folks thatare young listening to this young and hungry that, you know, maybe don't havea lot of experience and are waiting for their shot. They're waiting for theirbreak. I actually would have done the same thing as you. So I'm curious. Ifyou have a thought on that, maybe the answer is different. If you're anestablished leader for two decades, Yeah. So first, I don't regret doingwhat I did. I would not go back and, you know, drastically change it. Ithink for most people, you probably want to know. Well, what is a big team? How manypeople is that? What are the expectations? But I have to agree withyour point about the yes attitude contrasting my experience with someother leaders that got promoted at patient pop, who negotiated really hard.You know, this person was a top rap. We wanted them to be in leadership andthey pushed really hard for various things, right, salary, whatever it is.Those people pretty much always failed. And I don't know exactly therelationship between those things, but I feel like somebody who who thinks theway that I do about that opportunity where you're like, you're you'reoffering it to me. I'm going to accept on the spot. We'll figure out thedetails. That's also somebody who's going to figure out how to do the jobwhen they get stuck. I don't think that that's most people,and I don't know. Millions of people do this kind of job. And can most peoplewalk in cold and figure out how to be a manager on a brand new team with, youknow, almost no on boarding at a startup that changes all the time?Probably not, you know, And that's not anything to be ashamed of or anything.It's just as humans. We, you know, typically, Are you still learning acertain way? We need resources and support? Not totally. No, it does not.It doesn't. You know, I felt that same pain of, uh, you know, coming in as aleader unprepared, right? It was a very similar situation where it's like I was,maybe even I was more aggressive than you were of of saying like Hey, I'm I'mready. I want to get to the next step. I want to get to the next level like Iwant to get into leadership, and then you're given that chance. And I wasactually a player coach for about 18 months, which don't even get me startedon that. But, uh, I guess the point of where I'm going is that there there wasno there was no training. There was no guidance on that, right? It was like,Well, you know how you've been managed in the past. You know that what yourteam's quota is, Go figure it out, go get it done. And you know, it'sinteresting because we did ultimately get it done from a numbers perspective.But I've and I've told this story before, but I always found theinterpersonal relationships and communication to be so much harder thanjust hitting the number, right? Like it wasn't for me about what I thought itwas going to be about. Just creating, you know, these plays and closing dealsand doing all these strategic stuff. It was like, No, well, you know, thisperson is dating this person, that we're both on the team together or, youknow, this person's, you know, showing up an hour late, and this otherperson's you know, got this big heavy, uh, you know, family issue that's goingon like all these different interpersonal things that come upBecause, like you said, we're all human, right? And so I was not as a 20. Whatwas I, 24 25 year old, ready to handle...

...those types of difficult situations. SoI feel your pain. Yeah. And you know, to be really frank, like, I'm fortunatethat I had some experience managing people before doing that. I don't know.Justin knew that or not. But when he plugged him into theindividual contributor role, my on boarding was Here's a laptop.Watch me do one demo. Let me know if you have any questions. And I have. Andas a company, we were figuring out how to sell the product. So yes, often tonsof questions, basically nonstop, you know, And other rats Over time, he didwell until I was the resource for new reps. But I did figure that out. And had thatproves experience when I came out to LA I could apply that I knew. You know,I've had tough conversations about stupid things like you know, you can'tcome in late. You can't say that, or if you're going to come in late, let meknow. Or you can't say that in a workplace, you know, like you do haveto be professional, even though it's super cash here, right? And I can onlyimagine where I in your situation. I don't I don't know that I would havemade it 25 never managed anybody carrying my own personal number andhave to do all of these management tasks. That sounds stressful, and Imean, good for good for you, for knocking it out. But I don't recommendthat most companies duclair coaches like It's just the jobs are so vastlydifferent, and what it takes to do well at them is so vastly different, andpeople can have both of them. But it's like, should you know, you don't wantyour architects to also be a carpenter. Changing modes like that is reallychallenging. Go be an excellent architect and let the carpenters dotheir job, you know? Yeah, I always felt like, you know, I was doing 80% ofboth jobs. He's like, we'll give you pretty good at both, but I I can't begreat at both at the same time. You know, I could be great at one if Idevote all my attention to it. But anyways, this, you know, podcast isn'tabout me, but that's just mine. That's just my thoughts on it. So you had areally successful track at patient pop, right? You mean 27 people directlyreporting to you as a ton? I mean, I feel like the rule of thumb is usually,like in the 8 to 10 ballpark. No. Yeah, it's the optimal number. Soyou've had, you know, 3.5 times. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I don't recommend thatanybody do that, you know, it was an emergency situation, you know, And Ithink I held the ship together for the 30 days until we got somebody else in. But who would have been had if, yes, wewould have had smaller teams for sure. So I'm seeing, you know, via LinkedIn.I know we we had had communicated around that time of last year, but I'mseeing, you know, march. You leave patient Poppy, you found and become acreator. Essentially. You see that? This is a problem right in in a lot ofbusinesses that your experience is actually more common than you think. Ina lot of ways, where you came in on untrained on coach and the managementsystem is is really, I think, kind of broken at a lot of companies. Andleadership is So tell me the story there of how you win or how you madethe decision to go from, you know, patient pop. You know, one of the thehottest startups out there for sure in the US to want to go out on your own,timing that with, you know, obviously the global pandemic that we're in andeverything else that's going on now you launched, uh, you had a huge event lastyear. You know, your own private, uh, coaching that was going on. So, like,how did all that? What was the timeline for all that? How does that look? Yeah,so,...

...yeah, so here's what happened. Covidhits in March. Nobody's buying patient pumps products. They pivot to white, labeling a muchless expensive product and are struggling to sell that. I had some people say that this isfoolish, but I had told my boss that was looking for a job because I feltcapped out like I wasn't growing and had a really good relationship withmy boss at the time. Katie Kevin Dorsey, Who's, uh, probably doing this podcast.He's a chapter head of our CNN LA Yeah, Katie is great, and I, you know,I appreciate that we had a good enough relationship where that could be openwith him and talk about what we're going to do. Well, Covid hits and I'm like, Okay, patient pop is going to have biglayoffs if this thing keeps up and I think it's going to keep up. So Iliterally convinced myself that it would be a good thing for me if I wasone of the people that got laid off because I could start a business. Thisis one of the things I've wanted to do my whole life. And so it happened. Andof course, it wasn't easy. You know, they got they eliminated 25% of theworkforce or something. Basically all of the newest people, and then me themost expensive, you know, manager who's already got a foot out the door. And so I took. I took the weekend to,let's say, Call it emotionally recover. And then Monday I was already back towork. It was brainstorming what our actual challenges out in the world thatI have a unique experience I could use to address and solve for people. Mybrain started a bunch of staff and I stumbled upon this. I kept coming backto this leadership problem. I kept remembering how hard it was for me thatwe promoted all these other leaders. I mean, a lot of people who are stillthere are excellent. We promoted some people before that. It just didn'tbecome successful leaders, you know, they end up going back to being a repbecause because they couldn't make it. And I had regret that I didn't step inand help them at the time. So I said, What if What if I can just do somethingnow to help people in that situation? So I had this idea. I wanted to see ifother people cared about solving this problem right enough to take action. SoI put together a virtual summit and I reached out to we got I want to say 22speakers, 1000 attendees and put that together inabout four weeks. Those numbers told me that in fact, yes,people would be interested in something to solve that problem. So the nextthing I did is I posted on LinkedIn, and I spun up a pilot group for whatI'm right now what I'm calling the next level leadership mastermind and I'lltalk about that is in a second, but highlighted that with 10 people and went through and just really said,I don't know what I'm doing here. You know, I'm going to present content tohelp you guys solve your problems. We're all going to jump in, andeveryone else should feel free to pitch in to. And let's just see what'shelpful and what that's turned into today is aweekly call where we focus on new leader. So first two or three years onthe job, you can show up to that call and bring a business challenge. How doI hire for this new role? Or how do I know if my sales process is broken? Howdo I have this hard conversation with a rat or a manager or appear,...

...and the group can pitch it on that andI'll draw from my experience as well and give advice. Can do one off calls.Help people sort of role. Play that conversation so they can have it onceor twice in a realistic setting before having the real one. I also presentwhat I'm calling. Many trainings plug 15 minutes. Sometimes it here'severything that I know about managing up. I've learned from my revenuecollective mentor over 10, but I learned that patient pop from peoplethere from bosses. Here's everything that I recommend that you do. Last weekwe did a calendar tear down quarterly, and I still do this. I tear apart myentire calendar, reprioritized my life and then rebuild my calendar in thenext 45 days are always two or three times more productive than the previous45 days, you know, and then it degrades after that because you get more andmore meetings and and whatever. So people have found that to be really,really helpful. It wasn't the mastermind is, And that's my primaryfocus right now. And comparing that with the next level sales leadershippodcast where I interview people about their first couple years with salesleaders What mistakes did you make? What do you wish you knew? You knowthings like that. What's the common thing? We talked earlier about themistakes or the difficulties that you know, I found as a as a first yearsales manager. What are some of the common things that people come to thegroup and obviously don't name names or specific examples? But I'm curious ifthere's common threads that you see that, uh, these folks are coming intothe calls and everyone seems to be struggling with with X, or why doesanything come to mind on the mastermind? Calls are in the podcast interviews Imet the mastermind calls, but really neither yet so in the podcast, I'llstart there. There's a couple things that seem to come up almost everysingle episode. So the first one is a tendency to become a super rap, andthis happens even with people who aren't player coaches. But like youtalked about, you were. I think that's what you said you were in the trenches,helping your raps with a ton of their own deal. Super rap is like, you know,I want to put everybody on my back and guilty do their job for them. I'll jumpin and take over a call. You know when you're going wrong and it turns out that's actually the worst thing thatyou can do in most cases. Because when you take over a call for your rap, andthis is especially true if it's a like a bread and butter deal, and this islike the biggest deal the company has ever had. Different story jump in ifthey're losing it. But it's better to lose a bread and butter deal and thenlearn from it than it is to take. Take it over when you take it over, neitheryou as the leader, grow. Nor does the rap actually grow. So you haven'tgained anything except for a short term deal, and that's really hard. That'sreally hard. I mean, most of the people that manages their first sales job, andI'm listening to them on the phone. They don't even sound like themselvessometimes, and those first few weeks it's really bad, and you have to letthem fail and help them get better. And then the other thing that comes up alot is the changed dynamic when you suddenly are the boss of people thatyou are friends with. Oh, yeah. So I had, like, hook on the episode thatcame out this week, and I don't know...

...your production schedule. So that cameout like, uh, you know, February 6th or seventh Love, my cook is great. Weactually met. I think their revenue clocked in and we're pretty goodfriends now. And so I ask him to come on because his story is so good. Hemade huge mistakes when he took over that team and did his best to fix them.And I recommend anybody go listen to his story because there's so much youcan learn from that. The dynamic changes because you're the boss andsometimes you're just you're going to lose friends in that case, And that's aconversation you want to have with your boss. You know, potentially for gettingin there because some people just can't bridge that gap when you're at work.You're responsible for this person, you know, and and their number, and youmight have to fire them. And firing people is the worst part of being aleader. The second worst part. But you might have to, and you can't let be infront of them. Prevent you from protecting the business Is everybodyelse relies on the business. Did you say it's the second worst part? What'sthe worst? The worst part is when you don't fire the person that you shouldfire. Yeah, I've been there. That's like it's bad for everybody else. Yeah,yeah, yeah. I had a situation where the the team is Then in my first year that,you know, the there was clearly some loosened standards on one person of theteam because I was probably afraid of that confrontation, afraid of pullingthat trigger. And everyone else is, you know, we're being held to a differentstandard, and it kind of caused unrest within the rest of the team, you know,which makes a lot of sense. Um, and I didn't see it until it was said to me,And then, you know, we had we ended up making some moves, but that's a hugeone. Not having those conversations, I feel like, uh, you know, by dragging itout, it only hurts everyone else around you. Yeah, and I found that you have tohave the hard conversation immediately. Early. You know, somebody shows up towork five minutes late, doesn't tell you it sounds petty. It really itsounds petty, and it can feel petty. You've got to say, like, Hey, man, likeyou've got to set the tone for what's acceptable and what's not. And it's inmany cases has to be a hard line, and that doesn't mean you can't be flexible. You know, personal things happened. Youdon't have to come in. I want to work with you. But you just got tocommunicate because if I'm counting on you to be here and you're not here, wehad a kid. God, I can't believe you tell that story. We had a guy. That'swhat that I said. I want to hear it. We had a guy in training. I think I thinkour onboarding was two weeks at the time, and he just didn't come in thatsecond Monday and I was legitimately worried. I called this guy, texted him.I had other people do that. No response. I'm on Google like I looked up hisaddress in HR system so I could look on Google and see if there's a caraccident. You know what I mean? Like, I was worried this kid got hurt. No oneever heard from him. He walked in the next day on Tuesday as if nothing hadhappened. Peppy. He sits on a conference room,everyone. Good morning. And, you know, it's like he was at least honest withme if I pull him out of that room immediately. And dude, what? Whathappened? So he was honest with me, which I appreciate. He was hungover,and he woke up late, and as the sex came in, he felt worse and worse and,you know, and he just didn't have the...

...whatever it is, fortitude or whateverto text back. Well, I tried really hard to find a reason to keep him on theteam, but ultimately, you know, I had to lethim go, because, like, you just can't have. When you're trying to build aworld class organization, you have to have standards, and everybody has tofollow them. Couldn't agree more. I was I was curious what was gonna happen atthe end of that story, and you made the right decision. Um, so So let's say I'ma VP of sales right now, right? I'm kicking off. 2021. Got ambitious goalswere growing the headcount. We've just promoted five A s to be managers orSDRs to be SDR leaders or whatever it might be like. Why? I guess we'vecovered why It's probably helpful to give them some sort of training, but,like, what do I do? You know, like, do I go out and buy them the latest? Youknow, Simon cynic or brown a brown book like, Do I bring someone in to to talkto us? Do I invest in a consulting group? Like what? You know, I'm the VPand like I've got, you know, I'm bought in on on the on the problem here. Butwhat do I do? All right, if if money and time are infinite, which I knowisn't the case. But the ideal situation is give somebody a full course of onboarding that includes So think about how you onboard wraps in a In anorganization, we have things kind of figured out. What our expectations,What is the job? And for frontline managers, the job is training andcoaching. That's the number one thing. So how do you do that? So can you. Doyou have the time and the resources to train that manager on doing that? Thenwhat does the sales process look like if you're a very early stage companylike the ones that I've had the most fun at, like Dr Occupation Pop? Therewas no formalized process. I made up most of the process, but once you geteverybody doing roughly the same thing, your output is much more consistent,predictable. It's much more scalable, so you don't have a process, then youwant this person to go build it. If you do have it, you want this person thatto understand how to tweak it so that is consistently improving. How do youhave tough conversations, right? Like my conversation. But with that guy whodidn't show up on that day was a really hard conversation for both of us. Amanager needs to understand that avoiding conflict and confrontationmakes the problem worse, But then they also have to understand how to havethose conversations. And I'll be the first to admit I in my early days andmaybe still tend to err on the side of being too direct, and I think it'seasier to actually be a little too direct and then walk it back a littlethan it is to be too gentle and have somebody misunderstand you. But it'sgoing to be different for different personalities. Your new manager has toknow how to do that, and then they're going to have to know how to interviewand hire. They're going to have to know how to fire. Would call those the sixcore skills coaching, training process. Hard conversations, hiring, firing. Nowif you have the time and money to bring in somebody to train everybody, that'sawesome. Do it. You know, if you have the time to work with them every weekand help those managers get better, do it. But if your organization is likethe ones I've been part of, my one on one with my managers either got pushedoff or were mostly focused on tactical...

...troubleshooting or, you know, have aproject and there's a bottleneck and I'm asking for help, and we spent anhour a week on those things, and I didn't get development unless I clearedspace for it. Because VPs of sales directors of sales have so much goingon, I think that they're not usually able to give new managers the attentionthat they need, So there's a lot of great books out there. I can recommenda trillion books number. The number one book that every sales manager shouldread is a cracking the sales management code that's going to take you throughthe process in metrics. That's what I read on the plane to California. Youknow, it's number one when I built the mastermind. And this isn't, you know,probably listening. I'm not like this isn't a commercial for the mastermind,but this is why I think it's important is that there didn't seem to besomething between Go read a book and having a mentor right there was liketraining. You can go to training, and I've been through. Some of these wereused. You have five full days and you learn a lot of content. But just like with the book, when youabsorb all this content, when you try to apply this theory tothe real world, what's the Mike Tyson quote? Everybody has a plan until theyget punched in the nose. Mm hmm. Right. Well, the book says to do this. I thinkKatie tease me a little bit when I did one of these, Like the book says to dothat Well, yeah, but when you do it, it doesn't work. So you have to figure outwhy. You know, like, what's missing? And I think this is what peopleappreciate the mastermind as they show up when they're like, Okay, I read thatbook, but I don't know how to specifically apply it to my situation.Here's what's happening and we're actually able to troubleshoot thatwithout, you know, something costing thousands of dollars. Yeah, I love it.I love it up. So as we're wrapping up here, um, I want to just get into onelast thing, which is obviously, folks here listen to the revenue collectivepodcast. They want to learn about different revenue and leadership typesof things like we've been talking about. I think another piece of it is isnetworking right and using a group like revenue collective, and there's othergroups and social networks and places to engage. I'd be curious if you justhave maybe one tip or maybe just explain a little bit and help meunderstand how you leverage revenue, collective and networking to do yourjob better and to grow your career personally. Yeah, so a few ways, I mean, you know,I said the where I have found the most value, especially when I was in theleadership role. When I had a specific challenge, I would just go on to theflak and look out Search, Go search for the problem that you have. There'sprobably somebody already talking about it. Read everything that's in that flakabout that topic. And then, you know, one thing I did next is I would justslack a specific person. No, it's okay, Father. You talked about this. Wouldyou be willing to jump on a 15 minute zoom and let me ask you some morequestions? You know, here's what's happening with me like and people arereally cool. You know, sometimes people can't, but if you ask one or two orthree people, you're going to get one or two on the phone. It's an excellentway to learn, you know, from somebody's directexperience in that specific space on the specific problem. You know, asidefrom that, I mean, I get podcast guests off of it, too. And that's really fun.And I've learned a lot about consulting. I'd like to do a little bit ofconsulting as well. Yeah, I love it. I love it. All right, Derek, you've beensuper generous with your time. With...

...your insights. Could you let everyonethat's listening know where they can find you, where they can learn moreabout? You know, the mastermind that you have going the podcast If they justwant to chat with you, You know, maybe there's some fellow Michigan nights. Idon't know if that's a word, but we it is. Now what is that? Is that reallyokay? If there's any of those, it's the best place to find it. You know, thebest thing is linked in the linkedin dot com slash iron slash DerekYankowski, or just search Derek Kankowski and you can message me there.You can hit me on the RC slack. If you want to learn about the mastermind.Best thing to do is go to my LinkedIn page and there's a link to it under thefeatured section. And then, you know, for anyone in revenue collective likeif you want to join hit me up, and I'll make sure that the first month is on me.I want to eliminate that friction and show you how useful the bigger it is.That's awesome. That's really generous. Uh, Derek, I appreciate you coming onthe show. This was great. I had a good a good laugh. I learned a lot, and Iappreciate you sharing some of your knowledge with us. Of course, man.Appreciate you have a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Cheers. All right. Thanks fortuning into that episode of the Revenue Collect podcast. Just as anotherreminder, this episode was brought to you by six cents. Powered by AI andPredictive Analytics. Six cents helps you unite your entire revenue team witha shared set of data to achieve predictable revenue growth. If youliked this episode, please head over to Apple podcast. Give us some love. Fivestar review. Subscribe. We're on Spotify or on every major podcastchannel, so make sure to subscribe. You can also hit me up. I am Tom Alamo. Iwork over at gonna help out with the revenue collective. You can find me onLinkedIn. I'd love to chat with you until next week. Have a great Monday.Make it a great week. We'll catch you next time. Hey, so say something Mhm.

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