The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 34: Leaning Into New Opportunities During Big Life Changes feat Melissa Lui

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Leaning Into New Opportunities During Big Life Changes feat Melissa Lui

Hello and welcome to the revenue collective podcast. My name is Casey, like Gordon, and I'm the host. Today, I sit down with Melissa Liu to talk about leaning into new opportunities during big life changes. Melissa is going to share her story of how she ended up taking on a new job while expecting her first child being open with her employer about that going on maternity leave and then returning toe work. This is also while managing a team of 60 reps in six outbound managers. This is a story both of the employees going through that journey as well as really wonderful leadership from the team at Service Titan and how they created an environment that created stability, safety, an opportunity while Melissa took on arguably her biggest role yet as new mom. Before we get started, I want to give a shout out to today's sponsor quota path. This episode is brought to you by quote a path commission tracking software built by sales people for sales people. If you wake up in a cold sweat, dreading the commission's process quota path is for you. Quote. A path provides commission transparency for everyone involved while motivating reps to sell more. Plus, it's so easy to on board it'll be running before your next commission cycle. Dish the spreadsheets and formula. Simplify Commission calculation at quote a path dot com Hi, and welcome to the revenue collective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host. Today is a very special episode for a few reasons. Today is my last day hosting the revenue collective podcast. Melissa. I don't know if you knew that, but I'm dropping some knowledge here. I did not know that what is surprised and want to treat at the same time. I know I'm just just dropping bombs, but it's because I finally have figured out what my next move is so that will come or to the revenue collective community. But it has been just such a pleasure to sit down with so many incredible people. I think that this community has really sometimes demystified the greatness I see linked in profiles or people's titles and being able to actually sit down with them, see them as people see these amazing careers they've built and have them just share so much. Authenticity has been really a joy of this this period of time I've had off and I'm so grateful. Melissa Liu is my guest today. Melissa is a senior manager in sales development at Service Titan. Pretty impressive background, and I'm excited to sit with her on two topics. One, the work she does, she oversees 700,000 and revenue. They have two million and Pipeline. She's got 60 employees. Been in the business about seven years, like, you know, big deal, Right? But Melissa and I connected through the RC community and she was telling me about how she bravely took a new role when she was nine weeks pregnant. And for any of you new parents out their parents in general, you probably remember what that was like, the very beginning of finding out that you're expecting. And, you know, in the sales world where results matter to have a period of time, where you're not in the job could be pretty daunting. And so today's topic around leaning into new opportunities during big life changes, I think is is gonna be one of my favorite. I love talking tow women sales, women in business, and here just a really authentic journey. Melissa, I appreciate you giving us some some insight into that. So welcome to today's show. I'm so excited to be here, Casey. And what an honor to be your last guess during your whole journey running this podcast, the world to be here. I love it. I love it. We're going out in style here. So, Melissa, tell me and the audience here a bit about...

...service Titan and what your work is there and maybe we'll call it a T l D R version of how you you came to be in the role you are. Yeah, service Titan is essentially the system for the trades. So imagine every aspect of running a business for extract, plumbing or electrician's shop. Essentially from start to finish. We just help a business run from growing their revenue to running their back office a little bit more efficiently. And I currently oversee the entire corporate outbound sales development team. There. We have a pretty large team. I think our overall sales development team is about 80 people, and I oversee 60 of those people. That's a pretty big responsibility. Yeah, that za large team. And certainly when I decided to come and joined service Titan. Essentially, I was looking for that challenge of looking for a faster growth company where, you know, it's a very high velocity, because the previous company I was at prior to service Titan was a little bit more earlier. Stage and things were a little bit just lower nature due to the current stage that that company was currently at mhm. So you like to be in the midst of. We'll call it that growth stage where there's some momentum and you're that accelerant pour on the gas because we're we got numbers to hit and we're gonna we're going to lead the teams and rally the troops there. Yes, I definitely I mean, that's personally where I thrive. I really like that monthly cycle where I feed off of that adrenaline of everything kind of restarts at the beginning of the month, and no matter what your performance was that prior month, you can be a hero. But at that very first of the month, everyone starts back at zero e. Never really thought about it that way of this monthly reset, and I'm someone who I love, setting short term goals and tangible pieces and so thinking about it that, you know, we're on a 30 day sprint and what can we all do? But we all have a chance to recover and, you know, renew At the start of, ah, New Month. I think it's a really fun way of framing that. And for any of you listening out there, you know, as you're building your sales careers, I think is an interesting thing to observe where you actually thrive. Absolutely. You gotta lean into where your shrinks are and where you're personally, a little bit passionate about as well. And I just knew early on, getting into, like the Texas space that I really thrived off of a quicker sale cycle. Love it as someone who's coming from large scale enterprise sales that can sometimes take multi year. I wonder if maybe I should have given it a go in that I'm a little bit of that, but it Z I totally get it. So you and I were talking Gosh, it was back in 2020 maybe October November, and you were sharing with me about you know what it was like. Thio lean into a new opportunity opportunity during a big life change And you had said that when you took on this role at service Titan, you had just found out you were nine weeks pregnant. And when you started the job, you were 14 weeks pregnant. So it's still very early on in your pregnancy. But you had, you know, to consider maternity leave. You had to tell your team. And boss, how did you set goals? How did you build credibility and respect inside an environment that you were gonna have to leave? Like, tell me about what that journey was to be interview process and learned that when you shared it, how they responded, like, was it? Oh, shit. Or like what? What was the mindset? It was definitely all the above first, Okay, It was included in that statement because when I was actively interviewing and talking to service Titan, I didn't realize I was pregnant until midway through the interview process. And I had this...

...moment where I'm like, what do I dio? What did I do right now? Because technically, I could stay at my existing company. And if I told my coworkers and my boss, it would be business as usual. If anything, people would celebrate this and they'd be happy for me. There wouldn't be a second guess at all if I, you know, left for material leave because Ivory built in this credibility and reputation with organization, which at that time I think I've been there close to three years. So I just had this internal dialogue with myself about should I go? But I actually think it was really serendipitous because we had a book club at my company. That was at the time, and it just so happened that the book that we're reading was lean in by Sheryl Sandberg. If y'all haven't read that book before, it's such a great book. But there was one chapter in particular where she just had a great story about interviewing this woman. You know, they had a really good conversation, but she had a hunch. Cheryl had a hunch that there was something holding that woman back. So as a woman was walking towards the door at the end of the interview, Cheryl just decided to go for and just say, If you're thinking about starting a family and you're afraid about starting this opportunity, let's talk. But then just forget I said anything. Just continue walking out that door and that woman paused at the door handle and she actually stopped, turned around, sat down. And so let's talk and turned out. She had all these concerns. But, you know, Cheryl had the self awareness kind of mentioned it and bring it to the surface without her having to be uncomfortable to do so. And the end. More of that story was that woman end up starting at Facebook, and by the time she started, she was already pregnant in her first trimester. And part of the whole principle of that story was you wanna go back to an opportunity or a job that you're really excited about because you're going through this huge moment in your life where you're bringing in a kid into the world and, you know, think about the alternative. You know, you're experiencing this joy within your personal life, and then you think about great. After four or five months, I'm going back to this job that I'm not really excited about. That's probably why woman decided to stay and just be, you know, homemakers or opt out, opt out of the workforce because of the workforce because they're they're not excited about that job. So she really encouraged women to not shy away from taking on these opportunities during big moments in their lives, because if anything, more reason to lean in and try to take that leap of faith and reach for those opportunities because you want to be excited about the job that you come back. Thio and that particular chapter really left an impression in my mind. So, you know, I thought about that chapter and I thought, You know, in any other circumstance, let's say if I was a guy, he he wouldn't be thinking about this a second thought at all, He would tell people and people will probably pull out the cigars and the beer glasses and go like, Let's celebrate. So I thought to myself, You know, why should I hold this back? I'm actually really excited because this is my husband and I first child and we wanted Thio have a kid, so I'm like in true fashion. Let me just let me surface it up to service Titan because at the end of the day I wanted to join the company. That's just a Z excited to have me during one of the biggest changes in my life, and if they weren't, that's okay. But I would...

...rather know now than actually switching opportunities on Lee to find out that they're not thrilled. They're happy about that. There are so many lessons in there, and I think this is true with any career. But we're here on a sales and marketing podcast that we're going to talk about. The truth of this specifically in the world of sales sales could be brutal, right? It could be a, I think, the people that are drawn to it. You know, we love the highs of highs, the lows of lows we love you mentioned that adrenaline rush, but a lot of it comes with making fast progress of making impact, building that credibility inspiring team. I know part of you know you are sharing your bio is coaching people and developing those sales managers like that is very intensive work, and if simultaneously doing that while becoming a new parent, man or woman, but then just specifically be a mother going through that an expectant mother, I mean, it's very emotionally draining. It's physically draining all of the pieces that go with it. I'm my daughter's 18 months old. I think it takes a lot of bravery for you to say I'm gonna be honest because I your value say I want to be at a company that also values that in their employees. Andi, i e think another piece that is interesting around returning to a job that you love. I think that and I'll be curious your experience. But one of the most challenging things I had I personally was never drawn to stay home. I wanted to be at work, but leaving my daughter and going back to work the first time. It was probably one of the hardest days of my life. Just emotionally. Your your body is not your own, you know, you've been home. You're still very much, you know, in this motherhood mode. And so if I hadn't have been returning to an environment that I was energized to return Thio Yeah, that could have been really, really bad on multiple levels versus being able to find purpose and meaning in that you know, if I have to be away from the most important thing in my life, it better be pretty damn good of what I'm gonna go do for the 9 to 5 that I'm not with my daughter. Absolutely. And you know what they talk about, Mom. Guilt. That's a real thing. That was an experience. And it is hard. You know, someone once said to me that the birth of your first child is a birth of two people is the birth of your child and also the birth of your new identity as mom. Mm. And I definitely had all of those thoughts in mind. Which is why you know, I wanted to share, even though I knew I didn't have to share about my pregnancy, I wanted to start off from that place of Are you as equally excited about me joining? And if not, that's OK, because at the time I wasn't actively looking for that new opportunity. It wasn't something that you had to have. It was a nice tohave. Yes, it was a nice to have. You know, my mentor at the time, Kevin Dorsey, was actually working at service Titan, and actually, it was during one of our weekly Friday calls that he made that asked, you know, what would it take for you to come over and work here with us So we could actually put this coaching relationship into fruition day by day, because I think we could accomplish a lot together. And he was actually the first person I told that Service Titan about this, and it was such a positive conversation. He couldn't have reacted more perfectly. It all of a sudden became about the celebration of that news, and we could talk business later and he said Point blank that this doesn't change anything about this opportunity. I don't even want to talk about this opportunity right now because I just wanna talk about celebrating this new announcement, this exciting announcement in your life.

I mean, kudos to Teoh, a great culture and great manager, you know, future manager, their mentor, because I think that, you know, I've I've been both the person that is telling the organization that I'm expecting, And I've also been on the leadership side of things where, you know, you hear from an employee that they are expecting or have other life plans etcetera. And there is a part of us as humans who run teams and run businesses that seo crap like how? What? How are we going to get through? What is our stopgap plan? But recognizing that how you react their sets, the tone for every other conversation to be had and for them to create, make sure. I think that if you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we have to make sure that we're secure and safe in order to excel, to reach that enlightenment. So for them, Thio recognize that the onset to say, Hey, if we make sure that Mel is safe that she, you know, crew feels mentally on physically good in this environment, then we can talk to her about how do we make this the best hiring, experienced transition onboard, etcetera. While she also is, is going through this major life change. I just think that it can feel counterintuitive, especially in growth stage, where it's numbers, numbers, numbers. Thio, stop and do that. But I think that I mean your testament to that. You've been there almost three years now, So tell me what it was like. You know, you start, you leave for four months and you come back. Did you feel at a disadvantage? Did you feel I mean was there any? Yes, there's Mom guilt, but I think there's also some of that employees like Am I behind guilt? So where where was your mindset? Oh, definitely. I think my biggest concern was starting a new organization and not having that pre built reputation or credibility that I had at my previous company and knowing that sometimes it takes a bit of time to earn that trust. And I shared all those concerns with Katie. We had some really frank conversations about it, and he did his best to mitigate some of those concerns. And I also think he did something that was really unique, that I recognized that a lot of hiring managers or leaders don't have the foresight to think about which was, you know, he was trying to establish a bit of that credibility by putting his sponsorship on hiring me before I even joined the organization. So something that was really cool was I just remember two weeks before I even joined already started getting Lincoln messages from people that would be a part of my team, personalized messages where they were sharing. Okay, well, I'm so excited to have you join the team really ecstatic that another sales leader is coming on board. And to your point, Casey, that did immensely those little gestures to create security for me, that already going in into the role already had a bit more confident, right? And then, you know, my very first couple of weeks was just really meeting everyone on the team and that I remember second week at the job. We had a happy hour to celebrate my welcome. And of course, that one rough with her eagle eye goes, Why aren't you drinking? I was like, all right, all of sudden, all eyes on me And like, Okay, I guess this was my moment. This is not how I thought my moment would be to announce you, all of y'all. But I said it's because I'm pregnant. And lo and behold, everyone was kind of shocked. But immediately after what was very calming waas it, then I'll just became congratulations. And we're so happy for you. And that kind of just highlights the type of culture that I was fortunate to be a part of. But it gave me this energy going into this role where, you know, I almost put even Mawr...

...myself knowing that I have five months before I go onto this material leave and I put my damnedest effort to get to know the team, try to produce results and then just established myself, as you know, an integral person in the team. But what was really also great waas You can make that happen in a short amount of time. Shortly before I left, the entire team surprised me with a surprise baby shower, and I was touched beyond words because these were people I just met four or five months ago. Yeah, completely. And I think there's a couple things there that came to mind of when you make decisions about your career. And I think this is becoming more common, especially as younger generations are entering the workforce on values on what is a culture that represents the values. You said you didn't want to be a part of a company. The dollar, the price tag couldn't have been there. That said, if you are not celebrating me Mel as a woman and as a person agnostic of this job, if you're not able to celebrate that, then I'm not gonna be ableto bring my best self therefore, do my best work. Therefore it's not the right fit. And so I think for you know your top down your boss. But then also your peer and even subordinate. And I use that word within Asterix. But your employees, your team to say we see that and I think that it's really important. It's leaders, you know. You are a leader of a team and for you to introduce your pregnancy and this life event with a calm confidence, not with a taboo. Like you know, guys, I'm really sorry. I'm gonna be out for what? But instead, like I'm happy and this is okay. You invite others to also live their lives. They don't have to make decisions that they need to leave or change career trajectory based on the fact that they also want this other part of their life. And I think that, you know, at least as leaders, we not only it's not only how we respond to people when they come to us with those moments, but it's also how we we demonstrate how we walk the walk in our own lives that truly sends the message of quote unquote permission for others to do that absolutely. And I think about that a lot because I do recognize that it may not always play out this way. I've certainly heard a lot of different horror stories, so I know that the opportunity or what happened to me was really positive. Which is why I want to share it even more often because I know I want women to know that there are positive examples where things do end up working out, and it's okay to want to invest in your career and try to invest in yourself. But at the same time also get to have the things that you want on the personal side, whether that's getting married, starting a family, whatever it may be. I want to share that as often as possible. And truth be told, you know, once I found out that we were having a daughter, that first trimester, that was my field, thinking about what kind of world would I want for her When she does join the working force, I want this to no longer become a stigma where woman are afraid to share during, you know, the interview process. We should the more we could share examples of this, the less but the less it becomes more taboo. Yes, So I'll give you like a giant, uh, plus one on all of that. I think you know his people were story driven beings and there's a deficit and a taboo. As I mentioned around family planning and family being a part of your work trajectory on, I think you know, they're just very like basic physiological change differences...

...between men and women becoming parents. If you choose Thio, have a child, you know, childbirth, not adoption or other things that as a woman it does take a different physical toll. And I think that we have to create conversations and forums for how to model behavior. I think that sometimes it feels, you know, for male men in the workforce it can sometimes feel taboo of How do I talk about that? How doe I understand that experience. How doe I offer input. And for women, it can feel I'm not gonna be taken seriously if I make it all rah rah, go women. And so there's this tension. But we were like family is a large part of many of our lives. we were all Children to working parents or parents of some, you know. And so I think for us to demystify this and just really normalize it, I love that you, you know, when you and I met you shared that story so openly and that you're here on this platform telling it, um and we're also hearing about, you know, a male or man manager that was willing Thio walk the walk of culture, not just talking. Yeah, And I think it's probably not as unique as we as we think, but we don't really hear as many of those stories and those examples. So part of my intent and wanting to come on this podcast is to share these stories to, in your words, demystify this topic and make it more of an open dialogue with a little bit more transparency and authenticity. And, you know, coming back from maternity leave, that was the whole ordeal to as you kind of shared. It's just the mom guilt. Israel, you come back and you feel like you just came back from literally a time warp where everything has changed except for you. And you feel like what just happened things just flash forward four or five months and, you know, coming back. I had a different manager, a male manager who wasn't a parent. So there were definitely some new topics that we had to engage in conversation with. That handily wasn't the most comfortable because he didn't even know to think to bring up some of these things. Nor did I until I became a mom. Yeah, I didn't know, like, some of those examples were, you know, establishing a different schedule. Because now, now, I had a commitment to get back on time, you know, to pick up my daughter Braber breastfeeding, which your, uh if you had to ask me if there was one preparation that I wish I did moron. It was definitely that did not know that there's a whole schedule and routine that comes with that. So to talk to my mail manager about breast feeding schedule was candidly probably top three of the most awkward things that completely be having with the manager. But we had that conversation way. I'm right there with you. I mean, I remember traveling with male colleagues and saying, Hey, I have to pop into the bathroom. I need to go pump like I recognized were running between meetings and but I have to plan for that. Or else it's gonna be an even more awkward meeting when my shirt is soap. So, like we, you know, like we have to realistically adjust for these things. Justus. Somebody would stop it with a medical issue. And so I need to take my medicine or I need Thio. Whatever that is, we wouldn't make that a taboo topic. It would be very normalized. And I think in the world of sales, where your incredible responsiveness is one of our key metrics, but recognizing that you are not fully at the will or whim of your work, that you have this other very, you know, physiological called to something else that you're responsible Thio it can impact. I think this career maybe more than others off feeling comfortable, to be in ascending sales leader while also going through, you know, a very demanding life change.

Yeah, absolutely. And as many many of you probably experience, you know, our schedules can be pretty commanding and demanding and sometimes even trying to find a 15 20 minute break in between to schedule. Those sessions is challenging, so it really kind of pushed me into a place where I just had to be kind of transparent in establishing those boundaries. But what I realized waas At the end of the day, people don't care that that much as long as you keep producing results. Yeah, I'm reading a reading a great book Right now. It's by J. Shetty. It's called How to Think Like a Monk and that he talks about that. There's three truths that we have, and it's one what we think about ourselves. So you may think about yourself. I'm a new mom, and I'm doing the best I can. It's what others think about us. Others. Your peers might look at you and say, Gosh, that new mom is killing it. I can't believe she hit all our numbers and is a mom like That's really amazing. And the third is what we think others think about us, and that is often what we make decisions on. And so the third example might be they think I'm dropping the ball because I have to leave this meeting early to go pump in the, you know, in my room and the whole team is pissed off that they had Teoh, you know, be there 15 minutes later on when I couldn't. Whereas nobody may have thought the third truth. But in our minds as as moms, as new parents, we start this crazy narrative, and I think that, you know, you were saying that you just had Thio ask for what you need. I think that's really but some of the best advice, I think, um, I could give any new parent or anyone going through life change whether it's understanding, dealing with illness or caregiver responsibilities is to articulate what you need your environment or your boss or team. They'll tell you if if that's not feasible, but a lot of times we don't even ask because we're so worried about that narrative of what the other person might think that we don't even give the environment or the culture or company to respond in a way that could be really wonderful. That's so interesting. I wish I read that book when I came back, because that third narrative for sure drives a lot of the internal conversations that you have at night and drives a lot of the decisions and it's so true. But what I realized later on having come back from materially was Oh, people don't care that I'm walking out the door at four to go pick up my daughter. Because at the end of the day, Mel is still delivering results like her team is still beating the targets. And, yeah, my head walking out of the office was held a lot higher a couple months later because I didn't realize that no people weren't paying attention to that. If anything to your point. I was paying attention to that way more than I should have. And if those first couple of months, I just remember that first week back, like sneaking out the door at four. That no one saw me because that wasn't my usual schedule pre having my daughter. It was. You stay until you had to go. If there was a last minute meeting, you be flexible and you attend that. But now I was really trying to balance this this new identity as a mom and the responsibilities that come with that as well. Azaz reconcile ing well, who is this new melon at at work? I think that I empathize so much and I can relate so much to your experience of that internal dialogue. And I've recently come Thio really challenge and overall reject the idea that there's work life, balance. I actually think it's just life in which work will lead at times...

...and and family will lead at times and self will lead at times and their seasons. And so for you Thio be ah youngun professional that's staying late and taking the meetings. That's okay, because that helps you build experience. It helps you build credibility. It helps you build, you know, a muscle of understanding what it takes to hit certain goals. But in the next phase or the next season, it was totally find. Also, say I need to leave it for for the next 18 months or three years or whatever the number is, because this is the season of life I'm in and to your point tying your worth. Instead, thio the outcomes rather than the outputs My outcomes are I'm still hitting our numbers. I'm still being promoted. I know you mentioned that your boss or maybe it was a team member said the week you came back like, Hey, we haven't forgot about you. And six months later you were promoted like those are the things that we began we should be measuring are worth on Not I worked 18 hours. That's not really a badge of honor. And I'm so glad that that that Norm is being challenged. I think quarantine in this moment in time of mental health has really pushed people to say, like, Is that really the badge of honor I wanna wear? For sure, I think so. Often we impose this pressure on ourselves, and it's not coming from external factors. It's really ourselves, that air pushing us to the swim where we think we have thio be that that perfect working mom that picks up their daughter on time every single day while at the same time leading all these different initiatives at work and at the same time are making sure their team hits and over exceeds those targets. But that's not the reality, you know. The reality is, yeah. Sometimes I have to cut out early to go pick up my daughter. And sometimes, you know, my daughter gets sick and I can't be there. Yeah, but I think that's where coming back to an opportunity that you're excited about, where the people recognize that at the end of the day. It's not about the time you spent but the results you deliver and are also there to celebrate some of those personal professional milestones that that matter a little bit more. And I do want to touch on that story Casey, that you mentioned I shared with you because when I did come back from entering leave like I said, I felt like I was in a time warp. E felt I literally that first thing. I came back. There was in all hands, the sales, all hands where they were announcing all these different strategic changes. We had a new go to market strategy. All these people have had gotten promoted to different roles. My actual team that I was managing was completely different now coming back, and I just felt overwhelmed. I remember leaving that meeting and locking myself and ironically, the wellness room going Okay, breathe well, you're pretty adaptable. But that was very, very overwhelming to kind of come back to a place where, like all these things that change and I did think What about me? Did they kind of forget all that? All that work that I put forth before I went on a four month material leave and I remember very vividly that day my boss asked to take me out to lunch meeting and I was like, Okay, let's see where he's going. Tread lightly. You don't see within itself without any context. Yeah, I didn't know what to kind of expect. And I just remember when we sat down, the first thing he said was, Don't worry, Mel. We haven't forgotten about you, your career path thing and development plan that we had in place. Party leaving still exists. And that just took such a huge weight off my shoulders. I can't even describe because I was having this self induced, almost borderline anxiety attack on...

...what is going on. Everything at change. You know what? What is my new life look like at this company? And for him to have the foresight to even think that Mel could be experiencing these feelings just really highlights how much e que he had. Yeah, but I don't think many people who would pick up on so I just felt very very fortunate to have that experience. And I know I made note that day forward that if I ever was in a situation where I had a direct report in a similar life circumstance, that I would go ahead and just say it so that that person would have to go through who knows how many days of self Laurie An internal conversations wondering, What about me? Yeah, I The thing I'm taking away from today is certainly living our values as professionals, you know, recognizing that there were humans that are going to have lives outside of the proverbial four walls of our office because today we're in the four walls of our home, but that how a company and a culture responds says a lot about whether that's the right place for you and then the other pieces from A. I think that you've just shared so many wonderful examples of really great management and leadership and being able to recognize that in that position of power, of being a leader of having a team, that how we choose to initiate conversations like you, said the Cheryl Sandberg example, where she said, Hey, if this is on your mind. Let's chat, if not, no worries. But being able to take that first bold step and then, like you shared you know, when your boss, when you return to, say Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I'm gonna make sure you're secure above all else, like you have the peace of mind that there is a place here for you and then, you know, dazzling milk comes in and is able to do her work. But you didn't you weren't spending unnecessary energy. Wondering is my place here you? Instead, we're thinking about how doe I hit my numbers. How doe I perform. How do I lead a team and those air? Those are very tangible lessons that I'm taking with me after today's conversation. It's huge. It's certainly left a huge impression in my whole life trajectory. It's part of why I want to share these stories, and I want to pay it forward because, to your point, I don't want other men or women to go through this doubt. I want them to feel secure about what they bring to the table, and let's focus at the task at hand, which is how do we continue growing our business and hitting these targets and work in towards this great opportunity that we have here together, making it more about what are the The measures of your job or your role or your impact are truly what you deliver. It's not. We have Thio begin to reject, to refuse this narrative that we self imposed on those around us because they may or may not be thinking those things, but that we can't make decisions on what they may or may not be thinking. We have to make decisions that are true for us and allow them the space and the time to react and respond because they may respond far better than in any of our expectations. Like you said when you told you know your mentor amidst the interview process, it could have been it was probably terrifying and to have them respond in a way that was so much more gracious and positive. Let people prove you right or wrong exactly that, exactly that you know, take that initiative, be that first one that sparks that dialogue and you'd be surprised at how people react.

Sometimes your assumptions of the worst thing is really something that you imagine yourself, and it's truly not how other people react or how they perceive you at all. And in a lot of these examples are shared. People have really surprised me with the reactions, and it's kind of, especially in the year that we've had we need to hear some of these positive stories do happen in the workplace and that to happen with people's best interests in mind. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, we're on a sales podcast. So I have to also get down to brass tacks. You leave on maternity leave. What did that transition plan look like for your team? You were leading individuals. I'm sure you had responsibilities. Numbers? Was it a divide and conquer? Was it certain things on pause? I'm just very curious about I know my journey was I'm very curious about, like, how you all tangibly handled that If you could share. Sure. I actually create a part of my own transition plan. When I was out on maternity leave, so e s o. For the rats that I was managing. It was divide and conquer. They would be split up with other two outbound managers that were there, and then some of the projects that I was owning. We also kind of split that up to have different task holders. Kind of make sure that that project didn't get to delayed. And then there was one key project that was kind of put on hold because I was the main spare header driving that. And that was the hiring initiative that I back up on when I came back from maternity leaf just driving all the hiring initiatives for or Gaz well as rebuilding the interview process, reassessing our target hiring profile and then just making sure we had an actual hiring playbook that enabled the interview panel. That was what I kind of picked back up on when I came back from material leave and something that I completed two quarters after hell, yeah, you did. Ah, couple things. I'll share about my experience for any of those listening that maybe you're thinking about, you know, how is the tangible things done? Similarly, I led a team it was figuring out. I think it really pushed us to stack ranked priority of what was a priority versus what was a nice toe have when you have more people on especially more senior people. You include some of those nice to have. But when you say no, we what has to be done? It was It was a really good exercise that I actually think positively impacted the way we did things moving forward because we were able to see that one. Things could get done with fewer people and by having fewer things on our plate, we did them better. So it was Ah, it was a good lesson. I think it also showed us that even with the best intentions, things don't happen as fast as any of us hope So I came back after, you know, 3, 3.5 months, and we were still working on some of the same thing. So three months at the beginning or four months to your point at the time, it could sound so daunting. Oh, my God, that's forever. But think about how many times over a quarter we're still working on the same things. And so I think that demystifying it to use that word again of yes, it's a period of time. But it's not all the time, like, you know, and realistic about that. The last piece was, I think that parents coming back from any parental leave or any time you have team away fresh eyes back on the organization, could be a really powerful thing. So when I returned not being burdened or muddied in the day to day, I was ableto listen to conversation, sit in on meetings where maybe I didn't have in depth context. But I was able to challenge or hey, have you guys thought about this or space away has made me really think about this differently. So having your employees return can be a huge asset to get their fresh mind. And it can also be a really, I think, fun way for...

...especially new parents. I'll speak to that experience for me to start feeling those creative juices flowing again. It was like, Oh, I still have my brain. Aiken still talk to adults? Aiken Still, you know, it was it was giving me that confidence almost with training wheels, while also I think, adding a lot of value with that fresh perspective in returning. That's so true as you're bringing this up, it is giving me deja vu of, you know, part of my transition back into the workplace and to pick up on all the changes that have happened was to literally go through the new revamped on boarding for reps. And I just remember in one particular session when they're going through all these workshops at our reps would have to dio, you know, I just simply ask why are we focus on all of this one? Clearly, this is the root of the issue. And I remember there was this pause in the room where Enablement manager just looked at me as Who are you? Good point Touche. And next thing you know, they took that advice and rolls with what I suggested instead of all these different workshops that they were trying to run thio over overcomplicate the issue at hand. Mhm. Yes. So I once, um it was right is Kobe was happening so we didn't come to fruition. But I was signed up for a panel called The Mother of All Talent. And it was this idea that parents are some of your most valuable talent because they want understand multitasking, But they're not gonna mince words or, you know, do anything that is going to take unnecessary time their time becomes their greatest resource. And so how they prioritize, administer their time, run their schedule becomes a huge asset to companies. And so I love what you said of like, Hey, let's just get to the root cause Let's not do this anymore and that actually being impactful to accompany. So thanks for digging into some of the tangibles. I think that we oftentimes talk up here, and it's really nice to drill down and say no. What is something that somebody can take away from today for sure. Got to get into the tactical piece, right? What? Three action items that someone can leave this conversation with a men to that. Mel, thank you for joining me today. This was it was so wonderful. Quote unquote end on this note. Just talk about something really human. Thank you so much for having me. And I didn't even realize I was gonna be the last guest of this podcast. I'm sure we're all going to be very excited to hear about what your next opportunity is. Nevertheless, I'm sure it's gonna be something really amazing for you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I am hopeful to be able to announce it in more of a formal way. But if you are curious, go over to Casey. Let Gordon dot com or it all podcast dot com It is. My goal is with being the number one destination where modern women redefine it all. And there's a lot more packed within that that I hope to share with this community very soon. So thanks for taking that up. I didn't even have to ask you to give me a shameless for Thank you. Of course. I mean, I got you. You set it up with such a great intro for me. I'm like, how am I going to pay this? Bachir e Love it. I love it. All right. This has been fabulous. I I appreciate you joining. I appreciate you telling not just, you know, the work side of yourself, but also the very human personal motherhood side of yourself. This is Casey. Let Gordon with Melissa Liu, Melissa just to play it back to you All is the senior sales development manager at Service Titan. She leads an organization of 60 reps. She loves to coach people, helping starting their careers in sales and developing those new managers and one of her areas that she's focused on is...

...female sales professionals. We heard that today, and I'm very grateful to have you on the revenue collective podcast. We will see you all next week with new host new format, and we will continue telling the amazing stories of this community. Thank you. That's a wrap. Folks, this is Casey. Let Gordon I'm officially signing off of the R. C podcast. Thank you to the entire team most of all, Sam Jacobs for allowing me this opportunity to lead conversations with this thing. Incredible group of individuals who are changing and industry of sales and marketing and revenue operations and leadership. You all have inspired me immensely. I have learned something in every episode and know that while I will not be seeing you were talking to you every week here on the podcast, I am still on as a member of this community and invite all of the connections especially for you women of the RC community. As I go on to build what's next? With that, I'm going to sign off with our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by quota path. Quota path is the first radically transparent and and compensation solution from sales reps to finance get started for free at quota path dot com, and your next commission cycle could be totally automated. Thank you for this opportunity and I'll be seeing you in the community.

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