The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

Ep 34: Leaning Into New Opportunities During Big Life Changes feat Melissa Lui

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Leaning Into New Opportunities During Big Life Changes feat Melissa Lui

Hello and welcome to the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey, like Gordon, and I'm the host. Today, Isit down with Melissa Liu to talk about leaning into new opportunities duringbig life changes. Melissa is going to share her story of how she ended uptaking on a new job while expecting her first child being open with heremployer about that going on maternity leave and then returning toe work. Thisis also while managing a team of 60 reps in six outbound managers. This isa story both of the employees going through that journey as well as reallywonderful leadership from the team at Service Titan and how they created anenvironment that created stability, safety, an opportunity while Melissatook on arguably her biggest role yet as new mom. Before we get started, Iwant to give a shout out to today's sponsor quota path. This episode isbrought to you by quote a path commission tracking software built bysales people for sales people. If you wake up in a cold sweat, dreading thecommission's process quota path is for you. Quote. A path provides commissiontransparency for everyone involved while motivating reps to sell more.Plus, it's so easy to on board it'll be running before your next commissioncycle. Dish the spreadsheets and formula. Simplify Commissioncalculation at quote a path dot com Hi, and welcome to the revenue collectivepodcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host. Today is a veryspecial episode for a few reasons. Today is my last day hosting therevenue collective podcast. Melissa. I don't know if you knew that, but I'mdropping some knowledge here. I did not know that what is surprised and want totreat at the same time. I know I'm just just dropping bombs, but it's because Ifinally have figured out what my next move is so that will come or to therevenue collective community. But it has been just such a pleasure to sitdown with so many incredible people. I think that this community has reallysometimes demystified the greatness I see linked in profiles or people'stitles and being able to actually sit down with them, see them as people seethese amazing careers they've built and have them just share so much.Authenticity has been really a joy of this this period of time I've had offand I'm so grateful. Melissa Liu is my guest today. Melissa is a seniormanager in sales development at Service Titan. Pretty impressive background,and I'm excited to sit with her on two topics. One, the work she does, sheoversees 700,000 and revenue. They have two million and Pipeline. She's got 60employees. Been in the business about seven years, like, you know, big deal,Right? But Melissa and I connected through the RC community and she wastelling me about how she bravely took a new role when she was nine weekspregnant. And for any of you new parents out their parents in general,you probably remember what that was like, the very beginning of finding outthat you're expecting. And, you know, in the sales world where results matterto have a period of time, where you're not in the job could be pretty daunting.And so today's topic around leaning into new opportunities during big lifechanges, I think is is gonna be one of my favorite. I love talking tow womensales, women in business, and here just a really authentic journey. Melissa, Iappreciate you giving us some some insight into that. So welcome totoday's show. I'm so excited to be here, Casey. And what an honor to be yourlast guess during your whole journey running this podcast, the world to behere. I love it. I love it. We're going out in style here. So, Melissa, tell meand the audience here a bit about...

...service Titan and what your work isthere and maybe we'll call it a T l D R version of how you you came to be inthe role you are. Yeah, service Titan is essentially the system for thetrades. So imagine every aspect of running a business for extract,plumbing or electrician's shop. Essentially from start to finish. Wejust help a business run from growing their revenue to running their backoffice a little bit more efficiently. And I currently oversee the entirecorporate outbound sales development team. There. We have a pretty largeteam. I think our overall sales development team is about 80 people,and I oversee 60 of those people. That's a pretty big responsibility.Yeah, that za large team. And certainly when I decided to come and joinedservice Titan. Essentially, I was looking for that challenge of lookingfor a faster growth company where, you know, it's a very high velocity,because the previous company I was at prior to service Titan was a little bitmore earlier. Stage and things were a little bit just lower nature due to thecurrent stage that that company was currently at mhm. So you like to be inthe midst of. We'll call it that growth stage where there's some momentum andyou're that accelerant pour on the gas because we're we got numbers to hit andwe're gonna we're going to lead the teams and rally the troops there. Yes,I definitely I mean, that's personally where I thrive. I really like thatmonthly cycle where I feed off of that adrenaline of everything kind ofrestarts at the beginning of the month, and no matter what your performance wasthat prior month, you can be a hero. But at that very first of the month,everyone starts back at zero e. Never really thought about it that way ofthis monthly reset, and I'm someone who I love, setting short term goals andtangible pieces and so thinking about it that, you know, we're on a 30 daysprint and what can we all do? But we all have a chance to recover and, youknow, renew At the start of, ah, New Month. I think it's a really fun way offraming that. And for any of you listening out there, you know, asyou're building your sales careers, I think is an interesting thing toobserve where you actually thrive. Absolutely. You gotta lean into whereyour shrinks are and where you're personally, a little bit passionateabout as well. And I just knew early on, getting into, like the Texas space thatI really thrived off of a quicker sale cycle. Love it as someone who's comingfrom large scale enterprise sales that can sometimes take multi year. I wonderif maybe I should have given it a go in that I'm a little bit of that, but it ZI totally get it. So you and I were talking Gosh, it was back in 2020 maybeOctober November, and you were sharing with me about you know what it was like.Thio lean into a new opportunity opportunity during a big life changeAnd you had said that when you took on this role at service Titan, you hadjust found out you were nine weeks pregnant. And when you started the job,you were 14 weeks pregnant. So it's still very early on in your pregnancy.But you had, you know, to consider maternity leave. You had to tell yourteam. And boss, how did you set goals? How did you build credibility andrespect inside an environment that you were gonna have to leave? Like, tell meabout what that journey was to be interview process and learned that whenyou shared it, how they responded, like, was it? Oh, shit. Or like what? Whatwas the mindset? It was definitely all the above first, Okay, It was includedin that statement because when I was actively interviewing and talking toservice Titan, I didn't realize I was pregnant until midway through theinterview process. And I had this...

...moment where I'm like, what do I dio?What did I do right now? Because technically, I could stay at myexisting company. And if I told my coworkers and my boss, it would bebusiness as usual. If anything, people would celebrate this and they'd behappy for me. There wouldn't be a second guess at all if I, you know,left for material leave because Ivory built in this credibility andreputation with organization, which at that time I think I've been there closeto three years. So I just had this internal dialogue with myself aboutshould I go? But I actually think it was really serendipitous because we hada book club at my company. That was at the time, and it just so happened thatthe book that we're reading was lean in by Sheryl Sandberg. If y'all haven'tread that book before, it's such a great book. But there was one chapterin particular where she just had a great story about interviewing thiswoman. You know, they had a really good conversation, but she had a hunch.Cheryl had a hunch that there was something holding that woman back. Soas a woman was walking towards the door at the end of the interview, Cheryljust decided to go for and just say, If you're thinking about starting a familyand you're afraid about starting this opportunity, let's talk. But then justforget I said anything. Just continue walking out that door and that womanpaused at the door handle and she actually stopped, turned around, satdown. And so let's talk and turned out. She had all these concerns. But, youknow, Cheryl had the self awareness kind of mentioned it and bring it tothe surface without her having to be uncomfortable to do so. And the end.More of that story was that woman end up starting at Facebook, and by thetime she started, she was already pregnant in her first trimester. Andpart of the whole principle of that story was you wanna go back to anopportunity or a job that you're really excited about because you're goingthrough this huge moment in your life where you're bringing in a kid into theworld and, you know, think about the alternative. You know, you'reexperiencing this joy within your personal life, and then you think aboutgreat. After four or five months, I'm going back to this job that I'm notreally excited about. That's probably why woman decided to stay and just be,you know, homemakers or opt out, opt out of the workforce because of theworkforce because they're they're not excited about that job. So she reallyencouraged women to not shy away from taking on these opportunities duringbig moments in their lives, because if anything, more reason to lean in andtry to take that leap of faith and reach for those opportunities becauseyou want to be excited about the job that you come back. Thio and thatparticular chapter really left an impression in my mind. So, you know, Ithought about that chapter and I thought, You know, in any othercircumstance, let's say if I was a guy, he he wouldn't be thinking about this asecond thought at all, He would tell people and people will probably pullout the cigars and the beer glasses and go like, Let's celebrate. So I thoughtto myself, You know, why should I hold this back? I'm actually really excitedbecause this is my husband and I first child and we wanted Thio have a kid, soI'm like in true fashion. Let me just let me surface it up to service Titanbecause at the end of the day I wanted to join the company. That's just a Zexcited to have me during one of the biggest changes in my life, and if theyweren't, that's okay. But I would...

...rather know now than actually switchingopportunities on Lee to find out that they're not thrilled. They're happyabout that. There are so many lessons in there, and I think this is true withany career. But we're here on a sales and marketing podcast that we're goingto talk about. The truth of this specifically in the world of sales sales could be brutal, right? It couldbe a, I think, the people that are drawn to it. You know, we love thehighs of highs, the lows of lows we love you mentioned that adrenaline rush,but a lot of it comes with making fast progress of making impact, buildingthat credibility inspiring team. I know part of you know you are sharing yourbio is coaching people and developing those sales managers like that is veryintensive work, and if simultaneously doing that while becoming a new parent,man or woman, but then just specifically be a mother going throughthat an expectant mother, I mean, it's very emotionally draining. It'sphysically draining all of the pieces that go with it. I'm my daughter's 18months old. I think it takes a lot of bravery for you to say I'm gonna behonest because I your value say I want to be at a company that also valuesthat in their employees. Andi, i e think another piece that is interestingaround returning to a job that you love. I think that and I'll be curious yourexperience. But one of the most challenging things I had I personallywas never drawn to stay home. I wanted to be at work, but leaving my daughterand going back to work the first time. It was probably one of the hardest daysof my life. Just emotionally. Your your body is not your own, you know, you'vebeen home. You're still very much, you know, in this motherhood mode. And soif I hadn't have been returning to an environment that I was energized toreturn Thio Yeah, that could have been really, really bad on multiple levelsversus being able to find purpose and meaning in that you know, if I have tobe away from the most important thing in my life, it better be pretty damngood of what I'm gonna go do for the 9 to 5 that I'm not with my daughter. Absolutely. And you know what they talkabout, Mom. Guilt. That's a real thing. That was an experience. And it is hard.You know, someone once said to me that the birth of your first child is abirth of two people is the birth of your child and also the birth of yournew identity as mom. Mm. And I definitely had all of those thoughts inmind. Which is why you know, I wanted to share, even though I knew I didn'thave to share about my pregnancy, I wanted to start off from that place ofAre you as equally excited about me joining? And if not, that's OK, becauseat the time I wasn't actively looking for that new opportunity. It wasn'tsomething that you had to have. It was a nice tohave. Yes, it was a nice tohave. You know, my mentor at the time, Kevin Dorsey, was actually working atservice Titan, and actually, it was during one of our weekly Friday callsthat he made that asked, you know, what would it take for you to come over andwork here with us So we could actually put this coaching relationship intofruition day by day, because I think we could accomplish a lot together. And hewas actually the first person I told that Service Titan about this, and itwas such a positive conversation. He couldn't have reacted more perfectly.It all of a sudden became about the celebration of that news, and we couldtalk business later and he said Point blank that this doesn't change anythingabout this opportunity. I don't even want to talk about this opportunityright now because I just wanna talk about celebrating this new announcement,this exciting announcement in your life.

I mean, kudos to Teoh, a great cultureand great manager, you know, future manager, their mentor, because I thinkthat, you know, I've I've been both the person that is telling the organizationthat I'm expecting, And I've also been on the leadership side of things where,you know, you hear from an employee that they are expecting or have otherlife plans etcetera. And there is a part of us as humans who run teams andrun businesses that seo crap like how? What? How are we going to get through?What is our stopgap plan? But recognizing that how you react theirsets, the tone for every other conversation to be had and for them tocreate, make sure. I think that if you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs,we have to make sure that we're secure and safe in order to excel, to reachthat enlightenment. So for them, Thio recognize that the onset to say, Hey,if we make sure that Mel is safe that she, you know, crew feels mentally onphysically good in this environment, then we can talk to her about how do wemake this the best hiring, experienced transition onboard, etcetera. While shealso is, is going through this major life change. I just think that it canfeel counterintuitive, especially in growth stage, where it's numbers,numbers, numbers. Thio, stop and do that. But I think that I mean yourtestament to that. You've been there almost three years now, So tell me whatit was like. You know, you start, you leave for four months and you come back.Did you feel at a disadvantage? Did you feel I mean was there any? Yes, there'sMom guilt, but I think there's also some of that employees like Am I behindguilt? So where where was your mindset? Oh, definitely. I think my biggestconcern was starting a new organization and not having that pre builtreputation or credibility that I had at my previous company and knowing thatsometimes it takes a bit of time to earn that trust. And I shared all thoseconcerns with Katie. We had some really frank conversations about it, and hedid his best to mitigate some of those concerns. And I also think he didsomething that was really unique, that I recognized that a lot of hiringmanagers or leaders don't have the foresight to think about which was, youknow, he was trying to establish a bit of that credibility by putting hissponsorship on hiring me before I even joined the organization. So somethingthat was really cool was I just remember two weeks before I even joinedalready started getting Lincoln messages from people that would be apart of my team, personalized messages where they were sharing. Okay, well,I'm so excited to have you join the team really ecstatic that another salesleader is coming on board. And to your point, Casey, that did immensely thoselittle gestures to create security for me, that already going in into the rolealready had a bit more confident, right? And then, you know, my very firstcouple of weeks was just really meeting everyone on the team and that Iremember second week at the job. We had a happy hour to celebrate my welcome.And of course, that one rough with her eagle eye goes, Why aren't you drinking?I was like, all right, all of sudden, all eyes on me And like, Okay, I guessthis was my moment. This is not how I thought my moment would be to announceyou, all of y'all. But I said it's because I'm pregnant. And lo and behold,everyone was kind of shocked. But immediately after what was very calmingwaas it, then I'll just became congratulations. And we're so happy foryou. And that kind of just highlights the type of culture that I wasfortunate to be a part of. But it gave me this energy going into this rolewhere, you know, I almost put even Mawr...

...myself knowing that I have five monthsbefore I go onto this material leave and I put my damnedest effort to get toknow the team, try to produce results and then just established myself, asyou know, an integral person in the team. But what was really also greatwaas You can make that happen in a short amount of time. Shortly before Ileft, the entire team surprised me with a surprise baby shower, and I wastouched beyond words because these were people I just met four or five monthsago. Yeah, completely. And I think there's a couple things there that cameto mind of when you make decisions about your career. And I think this isbecoming more common, especially as younger generations are entering theworkforce on values on what is a culture that represents the values. Yousaid you didn't want to be a part of a company. The dollar, the price tagcouldn't have been there. That said, if you are not celebrating me Mel as awoman and as a person agnostic of this job, if you're not able to celebratethat, then I'm not gonna be ableto bring my best self therefore, do mybest work. Therefore it's not the right fit. And so I think for you know yourtop down your boss. But then also your peer and even subordinate. And I usethat word within Asterix. But your employees, your team to say we see thatand I think that it's really important. It's leaders, you know. You are aleader of a team and for you to introduce your pregnancy and this lifeevent with a calm confidence, not with a taboo. Like you know, guys, I'mreally sorry. I'm gonna be out for what? But instead, like I'm happy and this isokay. You invite others to also live their lives. They don't have to makedecisions that they need to leave or change career trajectory based on thefact that they also want this other part of their life. And I think that,you know, at least as leaders, we not only it's not only how we respond topeople when they come to us with those moments, but it's also how we wedemonstrate how we walk the walk in our own lives that truly sends the messageof quote unquote permission for others to do that absolutely. And I thinkabout that a lot because I do recognize that it may not always play out thisway. I've certainly heard a lot of different horror stories, so I knowthat the opportunity or what happened to me was really positive. Which is whyI want to share it even more often because I know I want women to knowthat there are positive examples where things do end up working out, and it'sokay to want to invest in your career and try to invest in yourself. But atthe same time also get to have the things that you want on the personalside, whether that's getting married, starting a family, whatever it may be.I want to share that as often as possible. And truth be told, you know,once I found out that we were having a daughter, that first trimester, thatwas my field, thinking about what kind of world would I want for her When shedoes join the working force, I want this to no longer become a stigma wherewoman are afraid to share during, you know, the interview process. We shouldthe more we could share examples of this, the less but the less it becomesmore taboo. Yes, So I'll give you like a giant, uh, plus one on all of that. Ithink you know his people were story driven beings and there's a deficit anda taboo. As I mentioned around family planning and family being a part ofyour work trajectory on, I think you know, they're just very like basicphysiological change differences...

...between men and women becoming parents.If you choose Thio, have a child, you know, childbirth, not adoption or otherthings that as a woman it does take a different physical toll. And I thinkthat we have to create conversations and forums for how to model behavior. Ithink that sometimes it feels, you know, for male men in the workforce it cansometimes feel taboo of How do I talk about that? How doe I understand thatexperience. How doe I offer input. And for women, it can feel I'm not gonna betaken seriously if I make it all rah rah, go women. And so there's thistension. But we were like family is a large part of many of our lives. wewere all Children to working parents or parents of some, you know. And so Ithink for us to demystify this and just really normalize it, I love that you,you know, when you and I met you shared that story so openly and that you'rehere on this platform telling it, um and we're also hearing about, you know,a male or man manager that was willing Thio walk the walk of culture, not justtalking. Yeah, And I think it's probably not as unique as we as wethink, but we don't really hear as many of those stories and those examples. Sopart of my intent and wanting to come on this podcast is to share thesestories to, in your words, demystify this topic and make it more of an opendialogue with a little bit more transparency and authenticity. And, youknow, coming back from maternity leave, that was the whole ordeal to as youkind of shared. It's just the mom guilt. Israel, you come back and you feel likeyou just came back from literally a time warp where everything has changedexcept for you. And you feel like what just happened things just flash forwardfour or five months and, you know, coming back. I had a different manager,a male manager who wasn't a parent. So there were definitely some new topicsthat we had to engage in conversation with. That handily wasn't the mostcomfortable because he didn't even know to think to bring up some of thesethings. Nor did I until I became a mom. Yeah, I didn't know, like, some ofthose examples were, you know, establishing a different schedule.Because now, now, I had a commitment to get back on time, you know, to pick upmy daughter Braber breastfeeding, which your, uh if you had to ask me if therewas one preparation that I wish I did moron. It was definitely that did notknow that there's a whole schedule and routine that comes with that. So totalk to my mail manager about breast feeding schedule was candidly probablytop three of the most awkward things that completely be having with themanager. But we had that conversation way. I'm right there with you. I mean,I remember traveling with male colleagues and saying, Hey, I have topop into the bathroom. I need to go pump like I recognized were runningbetween meetings and but I have to plan for that. Or else it's gonna be an evenmore awkward meeting when my shirt is soap. So, like we, you know, like wehave to realistically adjust for these things. Justus. Somebody would stop itwith a medical issue. And so I need to take my medicine or I need Thio.Whatever that is, we wouldn't make that a taboo topic. It would be verynormalized. And I think in the world of sales, where your incredibleresponsiveness is one of our key metrics, but recognizing that you arenot fully at the will or whim of your work, that you have this other very,you know, physiological called to something else that you're responsibleThio it can impact. I think this career maybe more than others off feelingcomfortable, to be in ascending sales leader while also going through, youknow, a very demanding life change.

Yeah, absolutely. And as many many ofyou probably experience, you know, our schedules can be pretty commanding anddemanding and sometimes even trying to find a 15 20 minute break in between toschedule. Those sessions is challenging, so it really kind of pushed me into aplace where I just had to be kind of transparent in establishing thoseboundaries. But what I realized waas At the end of the day, people don't carethat that much as long as you keep producing results. Yeah, I'm reading areading a great book Right now. It's by J. Shetty. It's called How to ThinkLike a Monk and that he talks about that. There's three truths that we have,and it's one what we think about ourselves. So you may think aboutyourself. I'm a new mom, and I'm doing the best I can. It's what others thinkabout us. Others. Your peers might look at you and say, Gosh, that new mom iskilling it. I can't believe she hit all our numbers and is a mom like That'sreally amazing. And the third is what we think others think about us, andthat is often what we make decisions on. And so the third example might be theythink I'm dropping the ball because I have to leave this meeting early to gopump in the, you know, in my room and the whole team is pissed off that theyhad Teoh, you know, be there 15 minutes later on when I couldn't. Whereasnobody may have thought the third truth. But in our minds as as moms, as newparents, we start this crazy narrative, and I think that, you know, you weresaying that you just had Thio ask for what you need. I think that's reallybut some of the best advice, I think, um, I could give any new parent oranyone going through life change whether it's understanding, dealingwith illness or caregiver responsibilities is to articulate whatyou need your environment or your boss or team. They'll tell you if if that'snot feasible, but a lot of times we don't even ask because we're so worriedabout that narrative of what the other person might think that we don't evengive the environment or the culture or company to respond in a way that couldbe really wonderful. That's so interesting. I wish I readthat book when I came back, because that third narrative for sure drives alot of the internal conversations that you have at night and drives a lot ofthe decisions and it's so true. But what I realized later on having comeback from materially was Oh, people don't care that I'm walking out thedoor at four to go pick up my daughter. Because at the end of the day, Mel isstill delivering results like her team is still beating the targets. And, yeah,my head walking out of the office was held a lot higher a couple months laterbecause I didn't realize that no people weren't paying attention to that. Ifanything to your point. I was paying attention to that way more than Ishould have. And if those first couple of months, I just remember that firstweek back, like sneaking out the door at four. That no one saw me becausethat wasn't my usual schedule pre having my daughter. It was. You stayuntil you had to go. If there was a last minute meeting, you be flexibleand you attend that. But now I was really trying to balance this this newidentity as a mom and the responsibilities that come with that aswell. Azaz reconcile ing well, who is this new melon at at work? I think thatI empathize so much and I can relate so much to your experience of thatinternal dialogue. And I've recently come Thio really challenge and overallreject the idea that there's work life, balance. I actually think it's justlife in which work will lead at times...

...and and family will lead at times andself will lead at times and their seasons. And so for you Thio be ahyoungun professional that's staying late and taking the meetings. That'sokay, because that helps you build experience. It helps you buildcredibility. It helps you build, you know, a muscle of understanding what ittakes to hit certain goals. But in the next phase or the next season, it wastotally find. Also, say I need to leave it for for the next 18 months or threeyears or whatever the number is, because this is the season of life I'min and to your point tying your worth. Instead, thio the outcomes rather thanthe outputs My outcomes are I'm still hitting our numbers. I'm still beingpromoted. I know you mentioned that your boss or maybe it was a team membersaid the week you came back like, Hey, we haven't forgot about you. And sixmonths later you were promoted like those are the things that we began weshould be measuring are worth on Not I worked 18 hours. That's not really abadge of honor. And I'm so glad that that that Norm is being challenged. Ithink quarantine in this moment in time of mental health has really pushedpeople to say, like, Is that really the badge of honor I wanna wear? For sure, I think so. Often we imposethis pressure on ourselves, and it's not coming from external factors. It'sreally ourselves, that air pushing us to the swim where we think we have thiobe that that perfect working mom that picks up their daughter on time everysingle day while at the same time leading all these different initiativesat work and at the same time are making sure their team hits and over exceedsthose targets. But that's not the reality, you know. The reality is, yeah.Sometimes I have to cut out early to go pick up my daughter. And sometimes, youknow, my daughter gets sick and I can't be there. Yeah, but I think that'swhere coming back to an opportunity that you're excited about, where thepeople recognize that at the end of the day. It's not about the time you spentbut the results you deliver and are also there to celebrate some of thosepersonal professional milestones that that matter a little bit more. And I dowant to touch on that story Casey, that you mentioned I shared with you becausewhen I did come back from entering leave like I said, I felt like I was ina time warp. E felt I literally that first thing. I came back. There was inall hands, the sales, all hands where they were announcing all thesedifferent strategic changes. We had a new go to market strategy. All thesepeople have had gotten promoted to different roles. My actual team that Iwas managing was completely different now coming back, and I just feltoverwhelmed. I remember leaving that meeting and locking myself andironically, the wellness room going Okay, breathe well, you're prettyadaptable. But that was very, very overwhelming to kind of come back to aplace where, like all these things that change and I did think What about me?Did they kind of forget all that? All that work that I put forth before Iwent on a four month material leave and I remember very vividly that day myboss asked to take me out to lunch meeting and I was like, Okay, let's seewhere he's going. Tread lightly. You don't see within itself without anycontext. Yeah, I didn't know what to kind of expect. And I just rememberwhen we sat down, the first thing he said was, Don't worry, Mel. We haven'tforgotten about you, your career path thing and development plan that we hadin place. Party leaving still exists. And that just took such a huge weightoff my shoulders. I can't even describe because I was having this self induced,almost borderline anxiety attack on...

...what is going on. Everything at change.You know what? What is my new life look like at this company? And for him tohave the foresight to even think that Mel could be experiencing thesefeelings just really highlights how much e que he had. Yeah, but I don'tthink many people who would pick up on so I just felt very very fortunate tohave that experience. And I know I made note that day forward that if I everwas in a situation where I had a direct report in a similar life circumstance,that I would go ahead and just say it so that that person would have to gothrough who knows how many days of self Laurie An internal conversationswondering, What about me? Yeah, I The thing I'm taking away fromtoday is certainly living our values as professionals, youknow, recognizing that there were humans that are going to have livesoutside of the proverbial four walls of our office because today we're in thefour walls of our home, but that how a company and a culture responds says alot about whether that's the right place for you and then the other piecesfrom A. I think that you've just shared so many wonderful examples of reallygreat management and leadership and being able to recognize that in thatposition of power, of being a leader of having a team, that how we choose toinitiate conversations like you, said the Cheryl Sandberg example, where shesaid, Hey, if this is on your mind. Let's chat, if not, no worries. Butbeing able to take that first bold step and then, like you shared you know,when your boss, when you return to, say Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I'm gonnamake sure you're secure above all else, like you have the peace of mind thatthere is a place here for you and then, you know, dazzling milk comes in and isable to do her work. But you didn't you weren't spending unnecessary energy.Wondering is my place here you? Instead, we're thinking about how doe I hit mynumbers. How doe I perform. How do I lead a team and those air? Those arevery tangible lessons that I'm taking with me after today's conversation.It's huge. It's certainly left a huge impression in my whole life trajectory.It's part of why I want to share these stories, and I want to pay it forwardbecause, to your point, I don't want other men or women to go through thisdoubt. I want them to feel secure about what they bring to the table, and let'sfocus at the task at hand, which is how do we continue growing our business andhitting these targets and work in towards this great opportunity that wehave here together, making it more about what are the The measures of yourjob or your role or your impact are truly what you deliver. It's not. Wehave Thio begin to reject, to refuse this narrative that we self imposed onthose around us because they may or may not be thinking those things, but thatwe can't make decisions on what they may or may not be thinking. We have tomake decisions that are true for us and allow them the space and the time toreact and respond because they may respond far better than in any of ourexpectations. Like you said when you told you know your mentor amidst theinterview process, it could have been it was probably terrifying and to havethem respond in a way that was so much more gracious and positive. Let peopleprove you right or wrong exactly that, exactly that you know, take thatinitiative, be that first one that sparks that dialogue and you'd besurprised at how people react.

Sometimes your assumptions of the worstthing is really something that you imagine yourself, and it's truly nothow other people react or how they perceive you at all. And in a lot ofthese examples are shared. People have really surprised me with the reactions,and it's kind of, especially in the year that we've had we need to hearsome of these positive stories do happen in the workplace and that tohappen with people's best interests in mind. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, we'reon a sales podcast. So I have to also get down to brass tacks. You leave onmaternity leave. What did that transition plan look like for your team?You were leading individuals. I'm sure you had responsibilities. Numbers? Wasit a divide and conquer? Was it certain things on pause? I'm just very curiousabout I know my journey was I'm very curious about, like, how you alltangibly handled that If you could share. Sure. I actually create a partof my own transition plan. When I was out on maternity leave, so e s o. Forthe rats that I was managing. It was divide and conquer. They would be splitup with other two outbound managers that were there, and then some of theprojects that I was owning. We also kind of split that up to have differenttask holders. Kind of make sure that that project didn't get to delayed. Andthen there was one key project that was kind of put on hold because I was themain spare header driving that. And that was the hiring initiative that Iback up on when I came back from maternity leaf just driving all thehiring initiatives for or Gaz well as rebuilding the interview process,reassessing our target hiring profile and then just making sure we had anactual hiring playbook that enabled the interview panel. That was what I kindof picked back up on when I came back from material leave and something thatI completed two quarters after hell, yeah, you did. Ah, couple things. I'llshare about my experience for any of those listening that maybe you'rethinking about, you know, how is the tangible things done? Similarly, I leda team it was figuring out. I think it really pushed us to stack rankedpriority of what was a priority versus what was a nice toe have when you havemore people on especially more senior people. You include some of those niceto have. But when you say no, we what has to be done? It was It was a reallygood exercise that I actually think positively impacted the way we didthings moving forward because we were able to see that one. Things could getdone with fewer people and by having fewer things on our plate, we did thembetter. So it was Ah, it was a good lesson. I think it also showed us thateven with the best intentions, things don't happen as fast as any of us hopeSo I came back after, you know, 3, 3.5 months, and we were still working onsome of the same thing. So three months at the beginning or four months to yourpoint at the time, it could sound so daunting. Oh, my God, that's forever.But think about how many times over a quarter we're still working on the samethings. And so I think that demystifying it to use that word againof yes, it's a period of time. But it's not all the time, like, you know, andrealistic about that. The last piece was, I think that parents coming back fromany parental leave or any time you have team away fresh eyes back on theorganization, could be a really powerful thing. So when I returned notbeing burdened or muddied in the day to day, I was ableto listen toconversation, sit in on meetings where maybe I didn't have in depth context.But I was able to challenge or hey, have you guys thought about this orspace away has made me really think about this differently. So having youremployees return can be a huge asset to get their fresh mind. And it can alsobe a really, I think, fun way for...

...especially new parents. I'll speak tothat experience for me to start feeling those creative juices flowing again. Itwas like, Oh, I still have my brain. Aiken still talk to adults? Aiken Still,you know, it was it was giving me that confidence almost with training wheels,while also I think, adding a lot of value with that fresh perspective inreturning. That's so true as you're bringing this up, it is giving me dejavu of, you know, part of my transition back into the workplace and to pick upon all the changes that have happened was to literally go through the newrevamped on boarding for reps. And I just remember in one particular sessionwhen they're going through all these workshops at our reps would have to dio,you know, I just simply ask why are we focus on all of this one? Clearly, thisis the root of the issue. And I remember there was this pause in theroom where Enablement manager just looked at me as Who are you? Good pointTouche. And next thing you know, they took that advice and rolls with what Isuggested instead of all these different workshops that they weretrying to run thio over overcomplicate the issue at hand. Mhm. Yes. So I once, um it was right isKobe was happening so we didn't come to fruition. But I was signed up for apanel called The Mother of All Talent. And it was this idea that parents aresome of your most valuable talent because they want understandmultitasking, But they're not gonna mince words or, you know, do anythingthat is going to take unnecessary time their time becomes their greatestresource. And so how they prioritize, administer their time, run theirschedule becomes a huge asset to companies. And so I love what you saidof like, Hey, let's just get to the root cause Let's not do this anymoreand that actually being impactful to accompany. So thanks for digging intosome of the tangibles. I think that we oftentimes talk up here, and it'sreally nice to drill down and say no. What is something that somebody cantake away from today for sure. Got to get into the tactical piece, right?What? Three action items that someone can leave this conversation with a mento that. Mel, thank you for joining me today. This was it was so wonderful.Quote unquote end on this note. Just talk about something really human.Thank you so much for having me. And I didn't even realize I was gonna be thelast guest of this podcast. I'm sure we're all going to be very excited tohear about what your next opportunity is. Nevertheless, I'm sure it's gonnabe something really amazing for you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I am hopefulto be able to announce it in more of a formal way. But if you are curious, goover to Casey. Let Gordon dot com or it all podcast dot com It is. My goal iswith being the number one destination where modern women redefine it all. Andthere's a lot more packed within that that I hope to share with thiscommunity very soon. So thanks for taking that up. I didn't even have toask you to give me a shameless for Thank you. Of course. I mean, I got you.You set it up with such a great intro for me. I'm like, how am I going to paythis? Bachir e Love it. I love it. All right. This has been fabulous. I Iappreciate you joining. I appreciate you telling not just, you know, thework side of yourself, but also the very human personal motherhood side ofyourself. This is Casey. Let Gordon with Melissa Liu, Melissa just to playit back to you All is the senior sales development manager at Service Titan.She leads an organization of 60 reps. She loves to coach people, helpingstarting their careers in sales and developing those new managers and oneof her areas that she's focused on is...

...female sales professionals. We heardthat today, and I'm very grateful to have you on the revenue collectivepodcast. We will see you all next week with new host new format, and we willcontinue telling the amazing stories of this community. Thank you. That's awrap. Folks, this is Casey. Let Gordon I'm officially signing off of the R. Cpodcast. Thank you to the entire team most of all, Sam Jacobs for allowing methis opportunity to lead conversations with this thing. Incredible group ofindividuals who are changing and industry of sales and marketing andrevenue operations and leadership. You all have inspired me immensely. I havelearned something in every episode and know that while I will not be seeingyou were talking to you every week here on the podcast, I am still on as amember of this community and invite all of the connections especially for youwomen of the RC community. As I go on to build what's next? With that, I'mgoing to sign off with our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by quotapath. Quota path is the first radically transparent and and compensationsolution from sales reps to finance get started for free at quota path dot com,and your next commission cycle could be totally automated. Thank you for thisopportunity and I'll be seeing you in the community.

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