The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 11 months ago

Ep 31: Virtual Selling in 2021 & Beyond feat Joe Venuti and Dre Lydon

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Virtual Selling in 2021 & Beyond feat Joe Venuti and Dre Lydon

Hello and welcome to the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host. Today Ihave the unique opportunity to have two guests on the show. Joe Venuti and Dre.London of Sin does. So we're gonna talk about virtual selling in 2021 beyondand how they don't see it as just this moment in time, but that it's reallyhere to stay. It's unique to get to speak with both of them because they'reboth in leadership as well as execution. And so, hearing these two, these twoteam members talk about what virtual selling has looked like for thembuilding a virtual culture. And how do you maintain momentum while also havingimmense empathy for your people? It was a really great and honestly funconversation, so with that, I'm going to get us started. But first, theRevenue collective podcast is powered by outreach. The sales engagementplatform for the modern sale. Zorg. Don't just take our word for it. The VPof sales a tableau. They say that they run their entire business from outreachand snowflakes. Enterprise sales director says outreach is the pillartoe how they've been able to scale. Want to see with the number one salesengagement platform can do for your business? Head over to www dot outreachdot io Toe. Learn more. You'll get an inside view at how outreach bringsefficiency, visibility and versatility to modern sales teams. Again, that's ww w dot outrage dot io. With that, let's talk to Dry and Joe. Hello andwelcome to the revenue collective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordonand I'm your host today. I have sinned. Oh, so joining us and I have two oftheir team members. And I think for those of you listening, both theexecutive and our reps are gonna love this because we have tworepresentatives or two perspectives being represented here. My first is JoeVenuti. He's the VP of inside sales at sin. Does so and then I also have DreLeyden, who is the director of sales development at the company. So, havingthese two together, I think we're going to cover a lot of really good ground.Welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great to be here. Yeah, thanks forhaving us, Casey. And for all our listeners, you might you might noticeus doing a little podcasting Ping pong here because we have three guests. Andso the zoom 2020 challenges of who speaks when bear with us. Because wemight have some of it. E mean disclaimer. Right, guys? Okay, so whydon't I give you all a moment just to introduce siendo so and also yourrespective roles within the organization? Just so we situate ouraudience. And what is the world we're talking about? Sure you could go. Oh,man, I was gonna totally like riding your coattails over. Here s Oh, hey,everybody. Andrew linen. Everybody calls me Dre. I had the opportunity toactually joined the str leadership team with Joe the beginning of Cove in so totalk about being a crazy ride. It has been exciting, crazy and only a coupleof gray hairs that you could see in here. So I'm excited. I get toe, havethe responsibility. Thio really run our enterprise segment really trying touplevel our team members and also have some really cool projects when it comesto some growth initiatives inbound optimization. And we actually recentlystarted an account management team that is looking thio to stores up cells andcross cells. And then Joe take us home. Sure. So Joe Venuti. I am the VP ofincense sales. I've been with Santoso just over two years now. I was actuallythe first Arizona based higher I was brought into, basically, building scale,the sales development team. So for a couple of weeks, it was just merecruiting fast forward. I don't know. Two years and a quarter or so there'snot about 40 total people in New York. There's a total of six teams that areultimately, um, that I'm ultimately...

...responsible for. So it's everythingoutbound, everything inbound and then, obviously the enterprise segment, aswell as the installed base team that Dre was just alluding to. I think Ihave probably accrued a few more gray hairs than her by age. Probably doesn'thelp either, but at the same time, it's been an absolutely wild ride. Neverexperienced growth like we've seen. The ability to create a category has been awhole new challenge outside of just building high performing sales teams.Um, that was what excited me about the role that Sando so is you know, I lovekind of building things from the ground up. The challenge that I wasn't reallyexpecting or maybe wasn't prepared for was, you know, the category creationside of it. But I've learned a ton and it's been it's been an awesomeexperience. I find that once you're in that space of creating a brand newcategory becomes a bit addictive and you know the ability to really imaginewhat isn't there today. Educated audience get them excited, riled up.It's in my experience having done it. It's one of the best best things I'veever done. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's been just like full of learningexperiences and obviously challenges and roadblocks. But I think that's halfthe fun, like navigating through all of that. But it's been very, veryinteresting to land in a sales role with the team where you know, initiallywhen you look around, there really wasn't a ton of competitors and now,like as competitors air popping up in this, you know, other companies in thesame space, which is which is a really, really good thing. But it's excitingwhen you kind of look at the website. There's not 10 other companies thatlook exactly like you. You know, I have interviewed for jobs or looking forjobs in the past. Where every website looks the same, all the pricing looksthe same. You almost can't tell yourself apart. There's a big, bigdifferentiator when you're creating a category from scratch and kind of bethe leader in the space. Totally. And I think, as we you know, the topic oftoday's conversation is virtual selling in 2021 beyond. And a couple of thetopics will cover, you know, in our time together is virtual sales werehere to stay. And even when we go back, Thio normal. I put that in giant airquotes. Who knows what that will look like? But how do we adapt now? How dowe take this moment in time and really set ourselves on a trajectory? Thiodifferentiate and be ahead of the trend of our competitors, etcetera. How doyou virtual I or pardon me? How did you humanize virtual selling? I think thatis one of the, uh, Dre. I want to hear from you on that because you join theleadership team during Cove in and I can only imagine the complexity of youknow what that looked like and you get toe, walk the walk, not just talk thetalk with that. And then how do we master creativity in sales? And I thinkthat not only in category creation, but then you layer on the reality of what2020 has been from a virtual environment. Creativity has becomeincredibly important when you're differentiating amongst yourcompetitors set. So I'd love to tee it up to start with Joe having yourperspective on when we went virtual and, you know, over the past, Gosh, what isat eight months now? Nine months. And as you're looking into 2021 what aresome of the key learnings you've had around developing a team constructingit, making sure there's connectivity. And how are you using those as momentumgoing into the new year? Yeah, I mean, I think like that's the ever presentchallenge right now. When we built this team from the ground up, it was laserfocused on culture and like higher into the human being. And I could tell you Ilet some pretty good sales people, you know, walk out of interviews withoutoffers because I was worried about the culture piece. So we did a really,really great job of building a cohesive team. And then they genuinely enjoyworking together and, you know, eight months into working from home, thechief complaint is like I miss my friends. You know, I miss going out forlunch together. We're getting a drink after work and like that stuff, youcan't think so as we pivoted to work...

...from home. We've been very intentionalabout remaining engaged with the frontline team. Um, you know, I didn'trealize how maney problems or issues I was able to solve. Well, making a cupof coffee. Now it's, you know, gotta set up a zoom called, uh, you know needto be very intentional about a slack conversation. So all of those, like 1to 1 interactions that I think that we very quickly dismissed have completelygone away. So it's being very, very intentional about, like yourcommunication methods. As we look into next year. As we continue to grow andcontinue to scale this team, the number one priority is hiring, right? So weneed to bring good quality people in the hiring profile is definitelychanged because on boarding and enablement is more difficulty in aremote for us. You know, we pride ourselves on being able to hire to, youknow, three main things, which was great coach ability and intrinsicmotivation. You know, now that experience peace is a little moreimportant than it was before. You know, we have a robust tech stack, and ifsomebody has never used, you know, a salesforce or an outreach like it'sreally, really hard when you can't lean to the personal that's next to youwould be like, Where's that button or how do I create this opportunity? Soit's mastering those small little nuances that used to be solved with Hey,can you help me for five minutes in this world when everyone's, you know,posted up in their living rooms and needed to communicate over slack? So,yeah, I mean, for me, like the big, big focus is getting, you know, mortgagegood quality bodies in the door, protecting the culture that we've triedso hard to build, but also making sure you know leadership in the enablementteam is all in lockstep or being able to get people ramped well, lendingsupport to the folks that have been here for a while, you know it zastartup were ever changing. Wherever evolving of 2020 has taught us anything,it's get comfortable, you know, in change when that happens, Just becausesomeone's been a top performer for, you know, a year and a half two yearsdoesn't mean that they're gonna master every skill set. So how do you continueto check in with them? How do you make sure that you know you're enablingeverybody from your top performing most tenured rip to the person that juststarted Monday? That is by far the biggest thing to tackle to make surethat this team continues to execute a high level. I'm curious your thoughtson this is I was hearing you talking and ruminating on my own experience ofbeing a manager and a team leader during the virtual environment that wefind ourselves in. I found that my ability to be an individual contributorwas much more limited because I had to be hyper aware of an in tune of to yourpoint at the beginning, my communication style, where it might youknow, a slack conversation or over the desk conversation might have feltreally simple before, but we're all just inundated with virtualconversations and that screen time, and I find it with my team and I find itwith my customers. Everybody s. So it's making sure you're reserving thatvirtual interaction to make it count. Not having it just be thio. You know,being careful with the culture, because I think that could become ruinous ifyou use it to frequently. And as a manager I had to be. I had. It couldn'tbe in the moment necessarily off the cuff communication. I needed to bereally thoughtful about how I was interjecting that into my team's daybecause it could so easily, um, it could have so easily derail them. And Ilove what you said of There's the balance of you have new people cominginto the organization. Traditionally, it's an all hands on deck toe on boardand make people feel welcome. But in this environment, your existing reps,your existing team and they're still need a tremendous amount of supportcoaching, um, sounding board etcetera. And so I find that it's the managementlayer. Really. All layers have taken a significant change with that managementlayer what your day looks like. And...

...this was my experience reallytransformed. And I'm curious if you're if you've noticed those same things.Yeah, You know, I always had a pretty busy calendar and you know, now if youlook at it, you know it will give you anxiety because it's back to back toback and your double booked a lot of times. But, you know, I think the otherpoint that you just kind of touched on is just like those one on one likeinteractions, right? Like I I sat right in the middle of the str team. I wasvery engaged sometimes, like, you know, I was the biggest distraction as farasHey, you send a meeting, ring the bell or, you know, high fives all aroundlike I don't have the ability to do that anymore. And as my calendar getsbusier and busier, you know, I rely Andre and the other managers in theorganization to make sure that, you know, they are laser focused on thefront line. I'm very intentional about setting up a couple of like, skip levelone on ones a week, and I don't really go into those with an agenda. It's justso that they know like, Hey, I'm here, You know I'm a resource. How can I help?You know, I set up like once a quarter. I kind of pick a week and meet withevery single individual, and it's not scalable it. It's largely taxing. Imean, it's, you know, 35 hours worth of meetings in a week. I mean, that's themajority of daylight, right? But it has to be done like you can't just let repsit on an island because it's so hard to diagnose when they're struggling. Whenyou're in the office that you can quickly identify, this person seems alittle bit off, you know, let me check in with them. And maybe it's justsomething in their personal life. Who knows? It could be anything. But thosethings are so hard to dissect early on when you don't have that face time anymore than you need to be very intentional about your interactions andreally trying to ask those pressing questions that you can lend supportwherever it might be. You know, the other downside to this work from homeenvironment is, you know, a lot of people struggle with the mental healthside of it, and it's really, really hard for me to get in front of that now.So the only way that we could do it is continuing to check in true. Try topick up on you know how people are feeling what people are saying, youknow, and jump in and do what we can to support them as quickly as possible.Dre, I would love. Yeah, I would love to hear your point, you know,perspective as one a member of a team and then now moving into leadership andthat evolution for you. Yeah, it was kind of interesting, because when Istarted obviously coming in in a director level, you know, I was goingto come in with a specific philosophy and sales methodology. And so I wasliterally in the office three days, and then we started working from home andeverybody that knows me, I'm very direct, right, And I have pretty highexpectations for my team. So it took me a lot to learn a whole new company. Ah,whole new culture and wait new ways that I could still be myself. But getconvey my message in an impactful way. So, you know, Joe and I the firstcouple of weeks, they're like, man graze coming in here hot. And I neededto be like, Hey, you guys like I'm excited and you know, I'm excited aboutthis, but I'm not like mean or I'm not trying to it. So it looks like you justhave to be so specific about an intentional intentional about what?You're gonna be pro facing to the reps, right? And it's hard. It was so nicewhen you came into the office and I say good morning and you get to know peoplefrom the report or Hey, somebody just had an awesome call. We all kind ofrally around that. Now you have to be very intentional on bringing thosecoaching moments in. Hey, guys, here's a call on outreach or sales loft thatsomebody just crushed it or Hey, this email is really resonating. Let's finddifferent ways that we could do it. And the other part is bringing yourauthentic self in right, your dogs barking. You know there's husbandsworking in the background, and so I think it's also in order to get to knoweach other and create that culture. We also need a carve out time to reallyget to know each other as humans. And so I feel kind of fortunate in thisaspect because you know what? Maybe took me a year to get to know my repsat previous companies or, you know, a couple of months I really get to, like,be in their bedrooms or be in their...

...house and understand, you know, reallywhat their life looks like so that I can kind of coach and develop them inbetter ways, understanding who they really are. So you know, it'sdefinitely harder to just make sure that we can be intentional andintentional and spend time with all the reps. But it also has some really goodbenefits to understand like that we could make an app impact and that workis within their professional and personal lives and really coaching thatindividual. I think the other key thing on this is like this is probably alesson that a lot of leaders learned. There's no emotion in slack and email,so you can ask what in your mind is just a very innocently Hey What's upwith this kind of question? And it's perceived as oh, like, did I screw thisup? Like, you know, and like, that was a lot of feedback that, like, you know,we received early on is, you know, I felt like I was in trouble there. No,Like I was literally just asking what happened with this off, where typicallyI would have leaned over the desk had been like, Hey, how did that call go?But when you send it over slack, it's it's just a different experience. So domy best to use emojis like anything to kind of lighten the mood. So they knowthat Hey, I'm not pissed. I'm just checking in here. Um, like, I thinkthat was a really big learning early on, because your default to slack, right?You go work from home. I can't talk to you. So what's the next best thing? I'mgonna send you a quick two seconds slack, but the way those perceived onthe other end and I get it like, you know, you're a new arrest er and all ofa sudden, like, you know, your new VPs asking about this opportunity and youinstantly goto like Is this bad? You know, another example is even meetingadvice. Right? I mentioned how I do check ins. Typically, if I just putlike Dre and Joe one on one, you know, with with one of the SDRs, I instantlyget the slack in my in trouble. No, absolutely not. Like, should you be? Isthere something I don't know? I just want to see how you're doing. So, likethe context behind these things is so important. It was challenging. Neverhad to think about in office completely. I I found that. And I actually wonderif this is a good thing to stay, especially for your sales. You know,professionals were communicating with people all the time that we aren't inoffice with our customers, even in a normal selling world. So the ability torealize that setting up intention for every meeting context for every meeting,being overt communicators so that your customer, just like you're talkingabout your employees are coming in so well equipped to contribute to aconversation, removing any social anxiety, removing any of those unknowns.It's made me have a lot of empathy or at least free framing of How could Itake some of this and create process around it both internally andexternally? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great point, right? Especiallyin the external side. I think that most companies, most teams, much like ours,went through a change in strategy right around the time that we went work fromhome, right there was a lot more leading with empathy, a lot more, youknow, human to human connections, like the days of steamrolling somebody intoa meeting and ultimately, you know, across the finish line to a closed deal.And those days are gone. So if nothing else comes out of this pandemic andthis work from home, and someday if we all go back to office like the onething that I hope we don't lose is the human side of selling. I think that,you know, in the rat race that is SAS sales, and everyone's scrambling forquote er and Presidents Club and everything else that's out there. You Ithink it's easy to lose the ability to be human about your interactions andthoughtful about every email and every message that sent there was a moment ofre centering where that had to become front and center. And I think that alot of companies and a lot of reps and a lot of prospects are better for that.So I hope that that particular piece never goes away. Is that how you allare looking at? You know, the concept around humanizing virtual sales is thatI would love to hear how you all its window. So are looking at how thismoment in time has impacted how you will operate moving forward. Yeah. Imean, you know, the day that we went...

...work from home, there was, you know, alot of meetings right away around How do we revamp our messaging? How do we,you know, revamp everything that we're doing right? It was imperative that wedidn't just come to a screeching halt. So one of the things that I was mostproud of, one of like the moments where our entire leadership team cametogether and I'm talking like from our founders, right down to every manageron the go to market team basically revamped everything that we were doingand took on a project that would take months and basically hammered it out ina couple of weeks and reveal again like we were just able tokeep moving forward, right? We had a change. We were selling change the waythat we were talking. It wasn't just about steamrolling people into the nextconversation. It waas genuine human conversations, right? You may have alot of conversations where you're not going to come out of it with a meetingor an opportunity or a deal that's moving to pipeline. And that was all ofa sudden, okay, because you were building relationships. Fortunately atsiendo. So we sell a product that really kind of bridges this this gap ofpersonalization. So we were able to kind of double down and, you know,drink our own champagne and really leverage the window. So platform tokeep the sales development team moving forward, which is obviously fueling theaccount executive team and allowing them to keep moving forward. Yeah, I'mcurious. You mentioned something around. It wassuddenly okay that we weren't, um, every conversation didn't lead to thedeal or didn't lead to the next step. That there was this acceptance of itsokay that we're building relationships and we're investing now. for the longterm. Has that endured during this? I mean, at some point, we have to makemoney, right? At some point, the deals do need to move forward. And I'mcurious how you balance that of relationship versus We have bills topay, so to speak. Yeah. So I think that it's all about pointing the team in theright direction, right? I mean, everybody has some sort of system.Where There, you know, a council teared out an intent data. So many tools outthere. So I think it's about working smarter and doubling down in the areaswhere you know, probably still have budget or maybe less impacted. And asyou kind of work your way down that listen to the companies that are alittle more impacted, you know, just cause it's not pipeline today, making alasting impression. It's a great place to circle back in a quarter or twoquarters, so it's not like he's dead in the water forever. It's just being mawrintentional about understanding, you know, each bucket of the accounts or ofyour territory, you know, in kind of pushing the right levers at the righttime. You've got to be much more intentional about every piece of vote. And I think, you know, just asupplement that I think just the concept of brand and advocacy is moreimportant than ever, right? You know, we wanted to create and we want ourSTRS to be the face of Sando so and so that when they're calling people youknow, every week is a little bit different in 2020. We want them toprovide such a great experience that we hope to get that meeting. But we hopethat that prospect remembers us, right? And we remembers the great words, thepersonalization that we did, how creative we were to send something thatwas very specific to their KPs or something that's in their personalinterest. So I think you know, advocacy and brand as long as you have yourtroops, you know, help being held to cultural values. And, more importantly,just thinking about it's not a this is going to be, you know, sign of ameeting or you're dead to me of a relationship of even if you don'tchoose us. Even if the demo isn't something that you're looking for, youknow we want to give you some expertise and some best practices that other youknow, marketers or sales leaders, air having. And hopefully we can both comebe better from this conversation. So I think, like, really just understanding,brainstorming and not really thinking about different ways to collaboratewith our prospect. He's not necessarily selling them, and I think that'ssomething that will be true to our...

...brand since I started and stillsomething we're seeing to this day and into next year. Think that'sfascinating because what you just said, I think that that is certainly some ofthe traditional profiles of sales and marketing leaders. But I think thatthere are, you know, those of us and I can certainly follow this campus Well,that really loved the win and maintaining momentum and maintainingculture and incentive and buy into what we're doing when maybe the world islooking a little different. I'm curious, you know, maybe Joe, from yourperspective of leading a team, how do you maintain that? That incentive, Iguess. Yeah, so I think it's I think it's a hard one, right, going back tothe conversations that are not going to result in like instant pipeline orinstant meeting for SDR. The message that I was kind of passing after theteam was just like, understand that everybody is on an even playing field,all right? It's not Mr and Mrs CMO from this company versus you, the SDR fromSantoso, your two human beings who are quarantined in your house. There's alot of really fear out there, like you're both experiencing all the sameemotions. So, like leverage, that human connection and, you know, build thatrelationship. Keep that relationship going forward as to how to, like, keepthe team motivated and keep driving towards the number. Ah, lot of thatcomes from the culture peace and the competitive spirit. The profile ofpeople that we tried to hire right, the reps air hungry. There's still apromotion path internally, and Sandoz, so there's still the ability to hityour quota and overachieving quota. So again, it's point them in the directionof where they're gonna have the most velocity, with the least with the leastfriction doubling down in the verticals in the areas that we're seeing success,there was a lot like another great moments how much we were always prettygood at sharing information, right? This SDR found something that's workingwell so that they didn't hoarder. They would share it with the team that hasgrown exponentially were really good at it. I would say Now we're great at it.So if one STs finding this message worked or, you know, I sent this linkdidn't note to a couple of prospects or I created this template inside ofoutreach, they're sharing that we're doubling down the areas that it'sworking. You know, The other thing is that a leadership level? I've neverworked as close with marketing as I do now. Granted, I've got the benefit ofan amazing marketing team. But the fact that str leadership in marketingleadership are in lockstep. It is insistent, like all hands on deckcampaigns that were running. So we're basically creating this groundswell ofeverything, Santoso. And then by the time the individual rep gets to you,it's a very personalized experience, right? It's not just you, the CMO areyou the VP. It's you, the human. You know, you the person that graduatedfrom whatever college went to. Are you the person that's a fan of this sportsteam or some club that you know that you're a part of whatever it might be.So we're able to create this, like, holistic groundswell so that people areintroduced to send. Oh, so like, Gray said, You know the bread is out there.The bridge is strong, and then an SDR comes in with something really, reallyrelevant that speaks to you. The human, like you're more than just a VP ofmarketing. So that is what drove the team to continue to produce. And, youknow, of course, there's a tons of contests we do internally. Also, it's aspecial way. Do all the fun stuff, too. They keep them moving forward. Is therecompetitive group? But, you know, you just kind of had to take the good withthe bad. You have reasonable expectations and, you know, anyconversation is kind of a good conversation. Even if the person's, youknow, not in a great place or not able to take a meeting, you know, just, youknow, move on and file that went away to circle back with. So I really likethe way you talked about that of recognizing helping coach your repsthat this is a very much an equalizing moment in time that you're you probablyhave never been more relatable to your audience than us universally goingthrough this experience. I think that's...

...pretty powerful advice and especiallycoaching some, maybe more junior younger reps. I'm curious from yourperspective, as we are going into 2021 right now. So many people are lookingthio. Next year they're finishing up, you know, this year, closing out,looking at planning. You all said that you you think virtual selling is hereto stay, and there are some things that you would recommend organizations andteams are doing to get ahead in 2021. I would love to talk about some reallyspecific items that the teams or team leaders could be thinking about goinginto the next several weeks. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's anythingradically different from what the best practices have always been, right.Personalization is Keith. The days of putting, you know, 3000 people into avery generic email campaign and pressing sending, like hoping you get areply like that's not gonna work anymore. And if we go back to theoffice if we stay home like that just simply isn't gonna work right. It's nowa world where you've got to reach out. No, the person on an individual level,the best you can and have, like a one on one meaningful impactfulconversation. I look at it in three buckets, right? You could do like yourhigh level, like social outreach kind of posting. And that's where you knowyou're targeting the company, right? Like you are an employee of X company.This is why you should know about send out. So now the individual collateralthat I'm sending you, your director of marketing. This is why directors ofmarketing should care about Sando. So and that's where we partner with ourmarketing team. Really? Really Well, is coming up with really, really greatcontent that speaks to the individual personas. And then by the time that theSDR gets to you, there's that personal experience, right? You've kind of we'vecreated this groundswell where you've seen Sandoz on a non invasive way. Ah,whole bunch of times. And now that conversation is warm. It's somethingthat you're a little interested in, something that you're intrigued aboutbecause you've seen it in five or six places, very noninvasive, and I thinklike that's The'keeper's successes. We move forward into 2021. It's gonna be acollaborative effort across several teams inside of your organization tocreate brand and to create awareness and then trust your frontline SDRs togo in there and deliver a personalized, well thought out message. I think that's a really very tangibleand point in the sense that we do need division of labor across the customerjourney, the same people who are the SDRs who are taking that meeting and,you know, having that relationship with the customer. They're not the same teamthat is gonna be responsible for mass outreach that is going to be solimiting because you are goingto, if every conversation you're having is notturning into a deal, that's just the reality of where we're in right now,especially with the virtual environment. Is that you, as each team has to do asmuch as they can within their start and end part of the journey to set the nextone up for success, and I wonder if it's less about in reframing it thathey, marketing, you were doing this in order not to just hit your KP eyes. Butthat's so that the SDR is able to successfully deliver on whateverthere's are that idea of team. I find that when you know team members areaccountable to each other versus just themselves or their boss, that the workproduct goes up. And so that interconnectedness is, is one thing Iheard there that I think is is really tangible, that any of our listenerscould take away e. I think like creativity is the new form ofpersonalization, right? That is something that we talk about all thetime because you know our market department getting back to BrandonAdvocacy. They're putting out all of this amazing thought leadership thatthe SDRs can continue thio leverage in their voice. But you know, it's notabout Hey, I saw you on LinkedIn and here's your KP ice. It's really aboutbeing unique, right? Everybody is...

...getting hundreds of emails. So now toreally stand out, it's really about being creative, and it's about havingbackup from, you know, your from marketing department, providing aircover, providing really good thought leadership and in giving the SDRC andthe account executive really good use cases and customer led selling so thatthey could deliver value on these first conversations, whether it becomespipeline or not. So I think you know one thing I wanted to dive into mhm.Yeah, And I think that the other thing is, you know, let your reps whetherthere s t r a s, let them focus on what they're really, really good at. I thinkthat, you know, historically, ah, lot of teams will try to make everythingplug and play. At the end of the day, there is no silver bullet. You know, Icould think of, like, just a couple of the top reps on on our team. Now theyare polar opposite personalities. So what works for one of them is simplynot gonna work for the other one. Right? Everybody comes a different backgrounds,different experiences, different strong suits. So empower them to double andtriple down on what their experience tells them and where they know they'regreat and then have them partner with someone that's great in other areas,they can continue to help up level each other, all of the training, all theamendment doesn't need to come from leadership. You're gonna learn morefrom your peers because they're doing it, you know, eight hours a day, 40hours a week, sometimes more so I don't make you know, 150 cold calls a week. Ijust don't Everybody on the team does. So get that information sharing. Going,you know, like that has been another key thing. We've empowered a lot of ourleaders to really become player Coach is without the title, and one of theinteresting dynamics I've noticed is more and more of these talk performingSTRS are now telling me I want to move into leadership. When they walked inthe door saying like direct line to 80 How do I get there? But now they'regetting a taste of like we'll bring them into interviews will bring theminto on boarding. Well, let them do shadow sessions will point new hires inthe direction of them. I'm hearing more and more. You know, I really like thispart of the job. Can you mentor me to help me become, you know, the nextmanager or a team lead or whatever it might be? So I think that it's kind ofopened up a new career path for a lot of people, too. I think that is one very importantthing that we take away from. This is that right now we are being in avirtual environment, going back to our earlier point. Many of us air craving,alternative connection. We're craving other ways to engage and get thatfulfillment. And so being allowing your team members to grow and develop onethat's great talent, retention and acquisition play of pouring into themand developing them as individuals but allowing them thio grow and expand.Like you, said Joe. Maybe not title directly, but their skill set in thisvirtual environment. And maybe check off a couple of boxes of thatinterconnectivity of that connection and then from there, just the exposurethere now seeing different paths. And I think that I would be interested on theother side of this. How many of our our sales reps of our sales leadersmarketing leaders begin Thio to see other emerging past that they want togo into because of this moment in time, to your point earlier, more of the purelevel sharing collaboration that maybe traditionally hasn't been there becausepeople have been heads down in their own lane. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Iagree. I think that, you know, SDRs come into organizations and, you know,they're always looking to move up somewhere, right? And it's interesting,because if we built, I think when I first joined a very intentionally builta cop plan that they can kind of climb the rungs of the SDR world, and theycan qualify to then go interview for account executive roles as they open.And a lot of them have done that. A lot of them are now great accountexecutives for us. But just as things evolve and especially over the lasteight months, um, there's definitely a little more of a push towards a subsetof them saying, Hey, I want to move into leadership or I wanna move and Iwant to do this instead. And I think...

...that's great, right? Right. There's noreason that we can't build a bench for other teams outside of just the accountexecutive team again, the majority you're gonna wanna go there, right?It's a stepping stone, and I understand all that. But you know, most of theleaders on the team now started as SDRs, though they were hired in his SDR, onesworked their way up, got promoted. You know, Dre was the first person that wewent external for because we were looking for more of a director levelperson at that point, right? I started as an SDR back in the day it sales for,So I'm part of that crew to Yeah, no, I mean, I think so many of us, right? Wehave thio, You start there and that that allows you the foundation. Dre,you mentioned around creativity and that really, being the currency thatyou see today and especially is, you know, we're going into the new year.I'm curious if there's any, you know, notable moment that's sticking out inyour mind around creativity or how the teams rally together that you want toshare with our audience. Yeah, So I'm gonna have to do a product pitch here,but I have never in my entire career sent any type of direct mail orphysical mail in any of the sequences or teams that I lead so theon pertinentto come over. Santos was really exciting to think about an alternatechannel and honestly, in my last couple of months, this has been just soincredible to see the conversion and see how this alternate channel reallyconnects with people, right? You know, whether it's doing research and seeingthat somebody is a bulldog lover and sending them like a special outfit fortheir bulldog Or, you know, really finding those really interestingcomponents of that which makes us who we are today are true authentic Selves.And those are the moments that are reps are really capitalizing on and thensending right we same or out of the inbox into the mailbox. And so I think,like, really understanding, like what really drives people toe work andunderstanding those capabilities and sticking mawr into? I saw that you'repassionate about this. This is how you could use Endo. So in that type ofvalue prop, then just particular personas is something that has been sointeresting to me and that I have to say, just like being genuine, right. Ithink I come to kind of come from an old school train of thought, which waslike, I don't know about too many emojis and emails or like memes, andI've really learned a lot of Sando. So about utilizing those in the rightaspect to truly like being your true, authentic self, right? I think thatutilizing those in a, you know in a certain capacity really shows yourvoice and 2020. I'm only going to spend time with people that I know we'regonna be worth worth by time. And they're going to deliver value to me,right? And so I think that being ableto have these kind of unique touch pointsas well as, like, really show like who you are and like, you know, one of ourtop reps Like when you reading these emails You're laughing like you arelike I can feel like you're writing this. I could see you just like ahustler. Str and those people like I want to give you time. And so I thinklike what I've learned is like not only being personalized to, like, you know,hobbies or things that really are the important things of every of all of ourlives, Not work rallying around that and then really just being your trueauthentic self or like, two things that have been like a game changer in theway that I've always thought about, like corporate prospecting or just likewhat an outbound function looks like. So just a little bit about Shindo. Sothere you could check us out window, so dot com e nothing less from from salesleaders to do a little name drop little called action e Love that. Go ahead,Joe. I'm sorry, just just to piggyback on what I just said, like what came tomind is like one like actual example of an SDR doing this and really hitting ahome run. It's a rough Andre Steam. His name's David. We call him Beast Mode,and he was engaged with the prospect on LinkedIn and again, I'm paraphrasingthe conversation, but the question was, well, like, what can I send it to theplatform? And David's reply was anything. So the guy said, Okay, cool.Send me a Ferrari and I'll take a...

...meeting. David went on. Amazon foundthis remote control Ferrari, and this is before we were right before we wentwork from home, sent it to the office, and the prospect loved this thing. Hewas examining around the office. All the exact team was playing with it.Sure enough, like a day or two later, the guy replies saying How you know,awesome. That was a great outreach way to think out of the box. And before youknow it, we've got an account executive on a call it, like four or fivestakeholders. So, like empowering somebody like David to be supercreative and, you know, leverage all the tools at his disposal and, you know,send the guy a Ferrari, you know, ended up being a really, really good meetingthat we were able to book and secure and sent over the account executiveteam. Yeah, I think that one thing that isn't is not unique with your productis the fact that you condemn Oh, your capabilities within your outrage. And Ithink for a lot of us in, you know, the SAS world or in the sales and marketingworld that is the case. There is a chance to showcase our product. And Ithink that you know, you guys have a a pretty cool value prop thatauthenticity and personalization and creativity those things that sometimesto your point, Dre older school sales might say no, don't lean so far intothose. You're in an environment with an organization with a brand that the moreof that, the better. And because it's it's demonstrating your product itself.And so I think that any of you listening out there thinking about whatis it really the problem we're solving? How do we demonstrate that in a waythat feels authentic, not forced? You know? Hey, this is our product. Butdemonstrate that in a way that feels relatable and an educational, too. Ithink that we are there. I have seen that customers give a lot more graceRight now. They're seeing their They're seeing the sellers as more human, too.And so that's a moment in time that capitalize on, Yeah, I mean, I think Ithink right now it's a pretty stressful world we all live in, and you couldmake someone laugh or brighten up their day just a little bit. It's gonna go areally long way completely I This has been a really,honestly fun conversation. I I You guys can't see the video, but I am lovinghow excited Dre gets what she's talking about, like her energy is palpable, andI think I mean that's an example in this virtual world like, how do youshow up? How do you let that excitement come across the screen? And so as weall go into 2021 virtual selling. Yes, it's here for this moment in time, butI think that we're going to continue to see this long after whatever thispandemic impacts our business, just the flexibility of work, ability to reachdifferent kinds of talent and so realizing and starting to build thatmuscle around. How do you personalize How are you creative both internallyand externally? Because I heard that you will talk a lot about that internalteam as well today. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know,without the internal team, people like Drake and I don't exist. I think thatit Z I've always said that. You know, there is nothing more important in myjob than the individuals that are on my team, and this has really been anopportunity for me to kind of back that statement up. It's again pretty easywhen you're in the office to just swim like someone's desk and how you doingto check in and all that. But in a world when you know people arestruggling and having a tough time. And you know there's just genuine fear anduncertainty out there, like it's really an opportunity for managers to becomegreat leaders and mentors and, you know, help bring people through, you know,really, really difficult time. I would imagine that when the dust settles,whatever that is, the people that have kind of seen this thing through withyou, you will have an amazing bond with in a really, really sense ofaccomplishment. So, like, for me, that's kind of the light at the end ofthe tunnel. I don't know how long the tunnel is, but I'm committed to get.I'm committed to getting there coming...

...up better than we went in completely. And I as a former salesleader, having those goals in those milestones in mind, they help keepmotivation even as a manager. So, to your point, I love the reframing ofduring this moment in time. How can I show up for my team in the best way?Becoming competitive about that almost with yourself, I think is is spot on.Um, thank you both for being guest on the show today. This was fun. So thankyou for having us. Yes, absolutely. This is Joe Venuti and Dre Leiden, thedirector of sales and vice president of Inside Sales. That's window. So my nameis Casey. Let Gordon I'm your host of the revenue collective podcast, andwe'll see you next time we did it. Another episode down and one stepcloser. Teoh. A New year. A new content for the revenue Collective podcast. I'mexcited. All right, we'll see you next time. In the meantime, go check outoutreach. Our sponsor, the Revenue Collective podcast, is powered byoutreach, the sales engagement platform for the modern sales work. I want tosee what the number one sales engagement platform can do for yourbusiness. Head to www dot outreach dot io toe. Learn more. I'm Casey. LetGordon and we'll see you next time.

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