The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 39: How To Run A Remote SDR Team feat Jimmy Chen

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How To Run A Remote SDR Team feat Jimmy Chen 

Alright, everyone, welcome back. Thank God it's Monday. Welcome back to the revenue Collective podcast. This is your Monday host Tom Alamo. I am and a Yukong co host of the podcast. Excited to have you here. This week's episode is a great one. We've got Jimmy Chen. Jimmy Chen is the director of worldwide sales development at Hacker One in there a little over two years. He also is the global head of the Associates program for Revenue Collective. So Jimmy and I have a great conversation about his come up in the str world and how he's adapting to the cove in times of managing an str team, hiring them, motivating them, getting them to do their best work while remote. So I think you're gonna enjoy this episode. If you do, the one way that you can really help is to head over to Apple, subscribe and leave a review. Five star view will take you 45 seconds, right? A few good words. It helps us to grow a reach, get better guests for the show and ultimately create a better podcast for you. So I would really appreciate it if you do that before we get into the actual episode. I wanna take a second to talk about our sponsor. So this month, sponsor of the podcast six cents six cents is the number one account engagement platform that helps you identify accounts that are in market for your solution. Prioritize your efforts to engage buyers the right way with highly relevant messaging and measure what actually matters. But the six cents platform were able to get into more deals improved when rates increase overall pipeline and optimized budget. Spend toe, learn more. Visit six cents dot com slash revenue Collective And now straight to our conversation with Jimmy Chin. Alright, Jimmy Chen, director of worldwide sales Development Hacker one. How we doing then? Hey, Doing well, Tom. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Thanks for joining the show. Happy Monday to you hanging in there. You know, even though today's technically holiday Yeah, but we're still we're still getting in the conversation, so I appreciate it. And I'm excited to have you on the show. I thought you were You went to tough. So you are. Are you from Boston, or did you just go out for that? No. So, actually, I'm a San Francisco townie you don't meet. Very many of us grew up here in San Francisco, and towards the end of my high school career, I I thought about really wanting something a little bit different. I had never seen Snow in my life. I wasn't, you know, one of the kids that went up to Tahoe very regularly. So I wanted to do something really, really different and ended up going to school over on the East Coast, right outside of Boston. I love it. The reason I ask is that I'm from the Boston area and lived there most of my life before moving out west about five years ago. So I wasn't sure. If you're from there, how is your Boston experience? It was very cold. I think that's the biggest part of it. We were. We were outside of Boston in Medford, Somerville area. So it wasn't necessarily the most Boston in part. At least it wasn't when I was out there, but I really enjoyed the seasons really enjoyed, also exposing myself to a really different sort of culture compared to San Francisco, but nothing but really fond memories out there. Yeah, I was going to say you. You enjoy the season. So you enjoy probably two or three of the four seasons. You definitely don't want to be there right now in January. But during the summer and fall on may be part of the spring and Stephanie Super Absolutely. That in Dunkin Donuts? Yeah, Dunkin Donuts. I mean, people out there have any Boston listeners. I mean, it's ice coffee. Even if it's 10 degrees below zero, it doesn't matter. Ice coffee with five sugars, right? That's the go to S O S. Oh, that's good, man. That's good. So let's get into it. I wanna learn more about your experience, So I'm looking through your linked in and looks like you did, you know, kind of had a few different internships and and things that you did after school. But how did you actually get into sales? Was that with Sunrun or re doing something with the libraries without Borders before that, that was kind of sales related also. Yeah. So my career into sales was a little bit different. Quite...

...unorthodox, if you will. I spent a lot of time as a teacher, worked in the nonprofit space for a long time, and to give you the most honest answer. I was kind of tired of being broke, worked a lot, didn't get paid very much right. And I didn't feel like I was really making the impact for myself or for, you know, the cause that I was working after really centered around international development and raising literacy scores and the like. When I got down to it, it was thesmokinggun of thinking about what are the things that are really important to me. And what are the things I could actually potentially be good at and kind of throwing caution to the wind? I ended up landing my first sales development gig at a small startup right outside of San Francisco in a little town called Sausalito at a company called Waggle W a G l no e. We were often confused with the dog walking app Wag. Yeah, in of itself, quite an experience. Nice. And so, Yeah, I have a sister older sister that was teaching Special Ed for about a decade and got into sales development last year. Oh, no kidding. Much for the same, you know, partially, maybe co vid related, but a lot of part man you're just working so hard and getting paid no money, and it's really just unfair system. So I think a lot of people can relate. Thio that, Hey, you know, sometimes it's you got to do what's gonna put some food on the table at some point. Sure, how was that transition for you coming from other roles? A totally different type of job into sales and probably just making a ton of cold calls. Yeah, I think taking a step back there it was just kind of being in a place where I was ready to accept that role. So even now, I interview a lot of SDRs that are making transitions into sales from all types of different careers. On the thing that a lot of people run into is this lack of willingness to accept the role for what it is, right. So as you were describing earlier, it's a lot of cold calls. It's a lot of getting ahold of people that frankly don't want anything to do with you until you obviously, you know, demonstrate value and be a good str and the like on for me. I was frankly, I was a bit embarrassed to be an str I was, you know, in my mid twenties at the time was coming in from, you know, a different career where I had advanced pretty quickly. And it was quite humbling to go back to the beginning to be the guy that picked up the phone when somebody you know decided to call in or send an email and go, Hi, this is Jimmy from waggle on. Ask them to qualifying questions to pass them on to the ee It frankly, it felt like it was below me, right? And it was one of those things where I had to suck it up and think, No, actually, this is actually what I want. There is a process here on when I came to the realization that, you know, these are kind of experiences that help build your career in sales, the harder it is. I guess I was a bit of a glutton for punishment. The better the outcomes. I really kind of dove into it. And thankfully, it's paid off for me. So it looks like you went from, you know, entering the company to the head of account development in about a year. So walk me through how you went from, man. I gotta, you know, maybe a little shell shocked coming into this job, this new company, this new industry to learning the process, learning the system, doing well with it and well enough that, you know, I I imagined by being the head of the team, you're now running everything you're the leader and and are overseeing the rest of the SDRs like, walk me through that process. Sure, I was always very ambitious and a little bit arrogant. Frankly, for any employers now and in the future, that listen to this, You know, I've, you know, definitely come the heck down. But when I think about my experience, that waggle, I think the biggest thing that drove me is that I was very, very ambitious. And I also had a very clear picture of what I wanted. Towards the start of my career. A colleague of my introduced me to another organization in the same hr tech space. Wagle was employee engagement software tool and we went to the conference, and that organization happens to be hiring for a director of business development role and, you know, being a bit energetic about how fast and how great my career...

...was going to be. I took a look at the job description. It was a director of business of development role. So, like an SDR leader role. And I read through the job description and said, You know, have to do A, B, C and D managed 15 people, whatever. So I actually I saved it as a PdF. I emailed it to myself, and I went to my boss at the Times names Adam Tanner. He's now the head of product at Wagga. When I told him Adam, in two years, this is where I wanna be And I showed him the document and he just kind of looked at me like I was crazy because, you know, if you know anything about me, I'm a bit quick to jump the gun. I was about a month into the role, right, and slowly but surely, I developed as an str. I did well at my role. I was able to gain the trust, my CEO, my head of sales and my peers that this is something worth investing in. So we started to have the conversation kind of really on about How do we frankly find Mawr? People like me, people that can hunt people that can qualify leads really be passionate about the space. Because I had a one track mind of just owning this and getting out of for lack of better words str purgatory and then being put into a position of like Okay, well, I can continue as I am Thio to become a Navy at some point. Or I can own this business problem right about generating pipeline and our organization and build processes and, you know, take a risk and spend a lot of time there to see if I could build out a team on overtime. I was able to do that. Hired one other person, served as a player coach for a while on Then, after, I think a couple of months in, they said, Okay, you know, I think you're better position Thio, leave this team as opposed Teoh, you know, you just making calls and stuff and I was given the opportunity to hire a full team around me. And then as we continue to kind of scale up, we raised our syriza and the like. It just kind of cemented the position and I became a manager for the for the first time. It was quite interesting. You know, I wish I could say that it was planned and I knew exactly what I was doing, and everything was strategic, but no, I was just really hungry. Did the work and kind of fell into it, right? And just continue toe take off after I started running. And how was that first experience running a team? Oh, man, I was I was terrified. I mean, I thought I knew what I was doing, right? It's a little bit of everything. You run into this what I call the super rep mentality. You go and tell your other SDRs. Well, this is what I did. So you should do it like this, or if they're not hitting their numbers, you, like, help them out, right? It's like, Do this, do this, do that. Send this email here. Listen to me. Make this call. Do that, You know, just not really thinking about their needs and development, but really just trying to drive at the number on understanding that actually, my efforts are better spent by helping other people be successful rather than me showing off that I still got my stuff and, you know, can make cold calls and do all of that. So that was a really big adjustment for me. The other part of it, too, is that, you know, prior Thio sales development. I did have other work experience. I worked as a management consultant in the non profit social enterprise space, had some training as a consultant at one of the big force, you know, obviously ran a team as well a small team, if you will, when I was a nonprofit. But it felt really different to manage people that actually carried a quota and taking the time to realize that and really taking a holistic look at one of those skills that I need to develop. So things like change management how have really strong, effective conversations, right? Coaching conversations, setting me and reinforcing expectations. Those are all big things that I had to learn. And I just, you know, day after day, just doing a lot of repetitions and have been ableto build up a lot of those skills. May I gotta tell you, that was the toughest thing for me leading a team when I was a player coach was it wasn't the strategy and the tactics and trying to hit numbers. We hit numbers. It was the It was the emotional intelligence and the personal conversations that happened, right? You got people at the right early stage of their sales career, early stage of their career. They just graduated school. And now you've got people with, you know, family issues and...

...relationship issues, financial issues, all these different things that come to fold. And you need to be ableto I think effective leaders can work with their people across. You know, both their professional and personal lives. Whatever that that person brings up, you you need to be ableto handle that and be with them and be able to help them. So I having all those conversations, that was something that I totally was not ready for. It was a huge throwback to May Tom. I could totally relate to all of that. I think the sales development spaces particularly special in that you work with people that are either transitioning careers into sales for the first time and you undo certain things or you have a lot of people. They're younger impressionable, more junior in their careers. I need to learn how toe work itself, how to do work at a company itself, right and then helping them to develop those skill sets. And it's a challenge. That was something that I thought I would never overcome but was able to thank God just by the number of repetitions that I've been ableto have because you start to become a bit of a shrink. Coach, mentor, teacher You have to play all of these different roles as an str leader, which might be different from other sales management roles. Totally. I mean, so what do you when you get a team right and it's their first day or their their entry into sales and being in a sales development rep? What are some of the first things that you teach them like? Do you focus on the tactics to focus on the mindset? Do you focus on a combination like walk me through how you get on board someone and like what that person needs to do and be to be successful on your team? Sure, I think the most important thing is the why behind either the organization. So why do we have sales, development and what the role actually is so that you can set the right level of activity stations. And then second, it's aligning their personal success to the business success, so helping them understand what it means for them to be successful in their role. So why do you have to book all those meetings? What are you working so hard for? That's the first thing. The second is understanding the business and the industry. So we're in cybersecurity. It's a bit technical. There's a lot of jargon, and at times it could be self limiting. When you run into a new industry trying to understand everything, you end up taking too much, and the third would be the actual sales skills themselves. So learning how to cold call, writing great emails, how to Social Cell and the like. I think the third thing, the sale skills are probably easiest to teach. But the 1st and 2nd are things that we see in the interview process to determine whether or not it's at least something that is workable. And then the second piece around the industry for something that's as complex as a security product has to be pretty challenging, right, because this this isn't something that comes very intuitively to most people, the ins and outs, the technology and you know it's probably more challenging. It's definitely more technical than getting on the phone and selling, you know, a sponsorship to something. For example, right, like the first thing I sold was like I was selling like media sponsorships, like sponsoring an event like I could wrap my head around what an event is and why someone would want to pay $10,000 to sponsor that. But to get into the depths of security and and or more technical type of conversation, that's got to take a lot of time. I mean, it does. But that shouldn't be a limiting factor. And I think you know, to your point about on boarding, that's where a lot of that slack is picked up on. Security as an industry is quite interesting because there's a lot of different solutions right, so thinking about what is our specific business offering and our value to particular clients and aligning that with what our product does and really deeply understanding the personas. That's been our key to success because you're right. There's just so many things. But not every single thing that you run into is going to be directly related or frankly important. Contextual knowledge is really important, but it's kind of like an str that does too much research, right? If they know too much, then they get distracted. It's never a bad thing per se, but it's really being a good manager and helping them effectively prioritize what is actually usable. And how does that help you achieve your goal? And that's where the on boarding and the managerial side comes in.

Whatever mistakes that you see new SDRs or any SDRs make as their in their first role. Yeah, I think the biggest mistake is not fully understanding what it takes for them to be successful. So thinking that there's some sort of like special gem because they come from a different sort of environment or or work in the past, that is gonna have this direct carry over, and they'll be, you know, figure out something that's amazing. There's some part of it where it does help right, but there's a process in place. Like most programs have a process. It's thinking about how you drive relevancy. It's thinking about how you actually do your activities. There is a system at play that's underlying, and if you think without any experience, you're gonna be better than that. Hey, fantastic, prove it. But we haven't seen very many people be able to successfully do that. So the mistake here, bit long winded, is not doing the actual job, right? Yeah, and like if you're coming in, there is a process for a reason, right? It's like you don't need to necessarily reinvent the wheel once you master the process, then I feel like is when you can get creative and start going out, you know, outside of the normal boundaries. And that's where I've seen a lot of SDRs or young salespeople once they've mastered. Okay, here's my cold call script and you hear the emails that were sending and so on and so forth. Now I'm going to start using, you know, send Oh, so or, you know now I'm going to start doing videos. Now I'm going to start going outside of the normal trajectory and try some things that are more creative. But you can't just start from that that land you have to master fundamentals like I can't play an instrument, although I wish I could. But you have to get the scales right before you can start playing real songs. Yeah, and sometimes you can wing it to some degree, right? Like, you know, you happen to find, like, a melody, or I also don't play music, so I don't know, I'm going too far into this, but it's like you might have something that sounds serviceable, but you're not gonna be able to scale that, make that repetitive and have this element of predictability such that you're able to consistently hit your number, right? Because, yeah, you might get lucky every once in a while or it might work for a little bit. But the process is what helps you get through the year, right? And then some. It's like, How do you do that consistently? Yeah. And what does your Orc look like? Like, how many people are reporting to you? You know, what is your role kind of encompass right now? Sure. I like to describe my role now as operations and enablement for the str team we have ahead of North America. Malcolm, who also has a manager under him. We oversee quite a number of different segments across the US, and we also have a person in a May as well. Dan, who oversees all of the media. So I'm a second line and and technically third line manager. A swell on it's been It's been a really interesting experience to transition to a different level of sales development because the world now is not really just around the tactical coaching or building out the plans. It's this kind of new perspective around what sales development could be as a business function, right? So, like nowadays, I don't look at my role as a str leader. Obviously that is my title and that is what I do. I think about myself from the position of being a business leader where my role is thinking about how do I best allocate the resources that are under my charge, right? The effort, the head count, the attention energy of my people to deliver the most pipeline that we can for the business, and so with that entail, like making sure that the right people are doing the right things, you mean and maybe you have the right tools in place and the right strategy and and targeting and things like that that are more high level than here's the playbook. Here's the script. Yeah, and I think if I zoom out even Mauritz thinking about what is it the businesses looking to achieve this year? And what are the areas where we can effectively invest? Our resource is so that we're able to yield a bigger result. So maybe it's like tweaks to how we do our go to market and how we work with different A ease. Maybe we could be working with the customer successor account management team to...

...look for Upsell opportunities. Maybe it's that there is some other approach that we can take right outside of, you know, just making calls doing Lincoln and the like to generate more pipeline. Maybe it's that, you know, we can just send everyone I don't know, like a gift card, and it converts like whatever it takes thio yield that maximum Malcolm is where our energy is focused on, and the position that I'm in now is thinking about water. Those possibilities, obviously testing it out to see and have you had any plays, any tools any odd, I guess resource ships that have have really worked out for you like the example where people are using, you know, gift cards. Or yet you bought a new sales technology that that maybe is a little underrated that you're getting a lot of value from or you handle your str e handoffs differently. Anything that's a little outside of the norm that you may be taking a bed on and it's paid off. So far, there's nothing that comes to mind that is too crazy, different. I think what we do well is that we execute on the fundamentals in the basics, right? And the one thing I tell a lot of people about being a good str and and being successful over time, because that over time element is really important to me. It's not necessarily just about Hey, I got this new trick or I use Lincoln voicemail and now you know I'm converting or I sent a video or whatever it's thinking about what are those? Things will consistently be successful. We adopted this framework I call Matt, which is an acronym, M. A T T. An acronym for messaging activities, targeting and timing and those are the four things generally an SDR will focus on if they're not hitting their number or need to look for something that they could diagnose to. To change the output right? And what I found to be one of the most successful predictors of an SDR is how well they actually get the timing component. And part of that is being very persistent, having really good organizational skills and knowing when to reach out. So we have people that can hit their number towards the end of the year just on those follow ups alone, right? And think about that for a second right? It's like taking all the people that said, Hey, don't reach out to me or follow up with me later and doing all that and actually following up and you'd be surprised to hear a lot of people don't do that right. Well, they just dropped the ball where they just kind of ignore it and move on to other things for us. We've created a model where we get people to consistently follow up when they need thio, because that's work already done and capture a lot of those low hanging fruits and for us, that's been a really nice additional layer of predictability. And is that a kind of ah tool that the REPS uses? It's something that it's a principle that you kind of, you know, bring into their heads as they're getting on boarded. That someone's going to tell you have reach out in six months that you better take that note. Or you better market in your sales engagement platform or on your calendar. Salesforce wherever. But how do they? How do they actually do that? Yeah, so we do this thing where we have people, a log, a specific task type of in salesforce. So instead of booking a meeting, we call it the forecasted meeting. It scares the bejesus out of people, for whatever reason, forecast. Just scare sales reps. But the idea behind it is that we would log it into salesforce of when a scheduled follow up is, or you know the reason why we want to reach out to them at a later time. We assign the relative conversion rates in a predictability, the likelihood of conversion there, and we use that to build kind of this ad hoc model. But part of what you asked earlier about when we kind of break this and it's part of our DNA and operating cadence. So our str managers will ask every single one on one. Hey, who's on your forecast? Who do you think is going to convert? How are the people that you have kind of been building up like where they at? So that we have more visibility into what's happening in those accounts and the people there? And it's also very helpful because for things like you know, if someone wants to do a cop blitz or go after warm prospects in the like, they will always have a list. So it's systematize ing what people the best reps, I think do instinctively of...

...like they're posted note or whatever of people there, Actually, one follow ups. It's not like groundbreaking. It's just fundamentals, right? And I feel like a lot of people don't execute against those basics. Yeah, I love that. And how do you handle the str a relationship or they want toe one or And how do you recommend because I've had several SDRs that you know they'll hit me up on LinkedIn or something? Ask me questions Hey, you know, how do I work best with my A You know, how do I get them to value my output? How do I get them to, you know, help me out or coach me or or mentor me or things like that? So how do you coach the SDRs to work with the A's towards their goals while also making sure that they hit on their own goals? I think it starts from the top, right? The sales organization has thio, except that the sales development function is something that adds value on if the leaders don't believe that to be the case, there isn't very much that you can do to really change that, so you can change it at maybe, like perhaps the personal relationship across str s and A S. But it's systemic and something that needs to be addressed at that level. To answer your question directly about, you know, what does that relationship look like? And how do you handle it, and how do you optimize for a really good relationship? I think it's a lot around influence and around just alignment, right? So thinking about what are the common objectives that we want to achieve between S t r E right? Where can we get the most bang for a buck in terms of how we invest our efforts, Right. And what are those goals that were held to and how do we hold each other accountable? And it could start office like, you know, right at the start, a conversation between A and SDR where they discussed. Okay, these are the things that I measured on. This is what I need to be successful. And this is what I think I need from you. So for an SDR, from an A, it's Hey, I need to make sure that you actually sit these meetings that I said for you, right? We should have a shared agenda so that we can keep each other accountable in terms of action items in the and who's doing what next. So that's basic project management. We should have a general understanding of who's going after which accounts and which personas. Within those accounts, if it's 1 to 1 at an enterprise level, we should have a deeper understanding of what that you know, our value proposition to those companies are thinking also about how do we specifically tailor a message and a more intimate level to these these right fit people and accounts. It's thinking also about, you know, how do you coordinate activities between the both of you so that there is also no overlap, which is a big component of it, and then really building this relationship where both of you see each other as a inalienable part of each other? Success like I think it's just tying them together like their success metrics, right, that will get them toe work together. It's like making them one singular unit. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I want a pivot to talk a little bit about revenue collective and and not necessarily as a pitch for the community. Although we both think it's a great community. I'm curious you've gotten really involved. Love, revenue collective. I see. I see your you know your name, popping up on the slack channel all the time, and, you know, I think you're the looks like the global head of the Associates program and and for those that don't know, it's kind of broken out into two categories. There's folks that I think Rvp plus and then you know, below VP and below veep, you'd be an associate. So maybe just tell me why are you Why do you get so involved? Like, why are you doing so much for a community that you know isn't you didn't create the community. But But why are you putting so much effort into it? I tell this to a lot of people that I speak with, right? What you get out of it is what you put in. So if I can help make revenue collective a better place more useful place for our members like I'm all in because when I think about my career and we didn't touch on this too much earlier, I have always adopted this mentality that almost a collectivist approach where I asked for help, right? Like I don't know everything. Like when I was first time as a manager, like I didn't know what good looks like. I had to ask around. I had toe reach out to...

...people cold on LinkedIn and say like, hey, so and so I'm a new str manager. Like, what do I do? Because I was building that team for the first time, right? And it was through these positive experiences where I reached out to people called on Lincoln that was able to accelerate my career and learn as much as I did and develop a perspective around different things. When I think about revenue collective, I think it's that in a really, really smaller setting where you're able to actually build more intimate relationships. So, for example, you know, when I when I talk to people and, you know, say, someone wants to join Revenue Collective I talk about it in terms of building a bench for talent that you have access to, not necessarily to recruit per se, but thinking about, for instance, Utah. You know what does it Tom 10, 20 years from now look like? What access does he have to professionals in this field? And what it boils down to for a lot of people is it's just kind of getting to that future state a little bit sooner by having that access and democratizing knowledge where hey, if I have a question about demand, Gen being in a sales person, I know who I would call. I know who I would ask my stupid questions to and and trust me. There's a lot of stupid questions that I have right and being ableto have that access to people because that's what a membership committee is all about. It's about helping each other out. It's about providing, you know, novel insight, right? And obviously there's a lot of other benefits. There's a great events, right, a lot of thought leadership. There's like, you know, rising executive programs for people that want to advance their careers. You know, there's a lot of really great things in there, and the reason why I wanted to get involved is I wanted to kind of spread the message, help people. This is becoming a bit of a pitch, but it's been nothing short of a great experience. Yeah, and I love the thought of, you know, thinking about your career and where it could be, you know, 5, 10, 20 years down the road and the connections that you can make and the people that you can help, but also that they'll help you down the line as well. And that's really just, you know, networking and building relationships. How do you go about that, right? Because the community is I don't know how big but several 1000 people, right? So how do you find maybe niches within a major community like that? Yeah, I think it's formulating what it is that you want out of it, or specific questions that you wanna ask Within revenue Collective. There's like a database of everyone there that is, you know, Onley exclusive for members. And what's really cool is that you could just reach out to anyone. And people will respond pretty quickly and are almost always open toe a chat. And what I really like about Revenue Collective is that, you know, at times there aren't really crystal clear specific asks. I think being a part of the membership and having interest in other people is kind of a strong enough trigger to reach out. But for me, I think about it in the context of, like, what are their functional areas, where they based how they encountered a problem like mine before, Or if I'm curious about what the next thing in my career looks like, you know, taking a look at their profile and kind of reaching out as as if you would be doing normally in just a networking setting. I think having that connection there being, you know, fellow members. It's people that self select people that really want to help others out and are also very knowledgeable, right? Because you know, as much as you know, we like Thio recruit everyone. This is not a community for everyone were very inclusive for sure, right? But it's a certain type of people that are successful for lack of better words here. Yeah, absolutely. And I agree that you want there to be like many people, you both wanna have skin in the game, right? You want there to be people around that are not just joining this group and then forgetting about it, you know, for 10 months and then rejoining. You want people that are also actively trying to get better. We're trying to build up their networks or trying to meet with them. You know, I'm sure there's things about your career They wanna learn from Justus. Muchas you wanna learn from them as well. And you know, I always find in any macro you know any sort of community. And I love revenue collective. I know there's a lot of other communities out there too, and some that will, you know, spawned this year, I'm sure is trying to find those...

...one on one connections, right? Like trying to meet people one on one. I'm personally not someone that plays really well in, like a huge slack environment. Or maybe even joins a ton of, you know, 100 200 person webinars, but trying to find people that are interesting. You have lunch with them or a coffee with them or, you know, join up more intimate Happy hour or something like that that helps you thio kind of grow. Those relationships is, well, absolutely. I talk a lot about this element of intentional spontaneity. It's a It's a term that I stole from one of my colleagues, Malcolm, also an R C member, and particularly in this digital environment. How do you replicate that, right. How do you meet people that you don't already know or have some sort of connection Thio or even a like connection? And with revenue collective and a lot of the social events that we run, It's, you know, getting people together, you know, a simple as like a zoom room, right? And then, you know, pairing them up for, like 10, 15 minutes, like its speed, dating or whatever. And then, at the very least, help spur that conversation. Because if you think about it like let's say that you go to an in person happy hour. When you think about what is a successful outcome of that happy hour, like the go no go decision like, why would I want to go to this happier our or not? Oftentimes you try to rationalize some sort of like Take away, right? It's like, Well, if I meet so and so that will be worth it or if I talked to one or two people that will be worth it. And usually that's the case for a lot of people. So how do we facilitate that digitally? What? We have a group of people that love the network that are in your space that are super interested in meeting other people. And we're just connecting the dots for people right and helping them find like minded people. Right? And that sense of community is really strong, and I would argue, is kind of the magic of RC Yeah, and it's, you know, it's great any time of your career to do that, but especially now in Cove, it at least you know, it just so happens to have lined up. That that's as long as I've been a member is pretty much the root cove It and I've made some great connections that way in a way that to your point, what was the quote planned? Spontaneity, intentional spontaneity? Intentionally? Yeah. I mean, I love that you like being ableto you know, just like you might run into someone in person somewhere. Or if you're working in a big office, you might bump into them and, you know, in the cafeteria or something, you can kind of do that through some of these channels, meet people that you wouldn't have met before and do that virtually in a world where you know, we're all in our apartments or our homes, you know, just grind a win our laptops and globally, right? And that's the other part of it. I feel like, you know, having co vid the positive externality blessing in disguise, if you will, is such that now I'm like, all sync up with people on the East Coast. A lot of people in London, Some folks in a pack is well because the thing that unites us is the fact that we're all super driven right, and we want to be successful in our respective roles and and talk shop for lack of better words, and now have more people to do it and really different and interesting perspectives. Because we're drawing from a global audience. It's It's nothing short of amazing. I love it. I love it. So has revenue collective at all? Or any networking community like that helped or even linked in helped on hiring? I know I'm not sure if you still are, but I know you've been hiring this year. Hacker one. How has that been? Virtually, And have some of these networking groups help there to find good candidates? It's been amazing. I think leveraging the community to help flying candidates has been super helpful. You know, it's one of those things. Like I said earlier, you get out more as you put in more So when I mentioned that I was hiring for my rolls and you know other people within the sales and marketing team, I had a lot of people reach out. Say, Hey, I know so and so a let me post this on my networks and all that. It's just it's been nothing short of amazing. Lincoln is obviously very helpful, a swell as a platform to disseminate a lot of this information. But yeah, I mean, I think community and investing community and social networking and on the like, particularly in this digital environment, is really, really important for this year to come. And then some. I feel like the game has...

...changed totally and just on maybe one last point on the hiring side, I think that's been probably a tough thing for a lot of people. I have a theory that a lot of hires that were made last year and and maybe even this year that at some point I feel like there's gonna be a pretty high drop off rating because both the interviewer and the interviewee haven't met in person, and I think there's a lot of good things that can happen over Zoom or, you know, over the phone. But I think that there's just something about being in a room with someone, and being able to tell is this my type of person, you know, is this my type of company. If if I'm the candidate, that's looking somewhere. So I'm curious. Like what have you change in your process now that it's fully virtual? And do you feel like you have a good kind of, you know, fundamentals for that? For what you're looking for, when you're hiring and how to kind of sniff out with the right person is gonna be. That's an awesome question, and I'll answer that in a couple of different parts. I think in terms of the hiring profile, we look for people that are going to be successful no matter what. So people with this immense desire to be successful with their intrinsic motivation right when we talk about str on boarding the number one thing, the second thing that we really focused on in terms of hiring for a remote environment and the people around it is making sure that they can still hit their number and be successful in a fully remote world. I know that that's not mind blowing by any stretch of the imagination, but it's making sure like templates are easy to find. Trainings are on demand, right, having things like, you know, a wiki of some sort having customs rituals built out in terms of how we communicate as a team, what is on slack versus what is on email so that there isn't a loss of efficiency or even a perceived loss of efficiency so that they can see that actually, it is something that they could do. Then we look for people that could be successful in a remote world. So thinking about okay are these people the type of people that will happily, you know, sit at their desk for lack of better words. Onda bang out calls and write emails and still feel okay with doing that because, frankly, not a lot of people are able to thrive in such environment. So we're not thinking about it from the perspective of how do we be reactive of this? You know, Specter off co vid. But how do we be proactive and make this an advantage? A competitive advantage in terms of accessing, are really diverse set of talent, right, and then still achieving the same level, if not higher results than we have been before? So that's the those are the two big things there, and would you say that part of that is also being pretty candid with, say, an incoming str That might be a college grad or something like that, someone that doesn't have a lot of experience or certainly not sales experience of what the role is. I think you mentioned before, like one of the mistakes that people maybe don't know what they're getting into or not sure what the job really is. So I imagine that a way of making that kind of a superpower for your organization is being very candid about how hard it's going to be and what the work entails so that yeah, some people might fall off. But the people that you get through, you know, are right for the job and are ready to put in that work. That's totally it's setting and reinforcing clear expectations. And I think we have gotten a lot better out of necessity over the last couple of years. Especially, yeah, I love it, man. Well, I Jimmy, I know we're wrapping up here. We're short on time. I appreciate you coming on the show. I'd love for you to just take a minute and tell people a little bit about where they can connect with you and anything else that you'd like to share about if you have upcoming events or anything else that is exciting for you in February. Sure, in February. Let me think about that for a second. Well, first you can connect with me on LinkedIn pretty easy to find. It's Jimmy Chen from Hacker 14 Words shouldn't be very many other Jimmy Chance from Hacker One. I've never wait. Hold on. I've never seen Yeah, I've never seen anyone do that. I'm sure it's intentional. So maybe you could tell me that. Yeah, so I just I mean, now I can't give everyone my secret, but the idea behind it is that I just put my company name as my last name like Chen from Hacker One, as if...

...it's just one name so that it shows up on the Lincoln Thing so that whenever someone sees, they'll see that it's the company and my name. Were you getting confused for other Jimmy Chance? No, it's just that I was recruiting right on thinking about how do you put like a lot of impressions on the name of the company and the person, and it's also like, you know, You can't be better if you're not different. So you gotta be different. I love it. I love it. All right. Sorry to interrupt. Where else can we wait? Yeah. I mean, find me on LinkedIn. Hacker ones always hiring cross sales and marketing. We're doing quite a big hiring sprint right now, so take a look at our careers page. If you know you want someone to talk to you, I can definitely connect you. That's awesome. Oh, sorry. One last thing. If you are an str and you're listening to this podcast or an str aspirant, you can send me an email at Jimmy at hacker one dot com with the subject line wallawalla bang Bang and I will respond. You are trying to prospect me. I will not respond. People applied for jobs and not use that subject. They totally have and they've been successful. But the ones that get a conversation generally are the ones that do that. I love it. I love it. I love the creativity, Jimmy. I appreciate you coming on the show, man. Thank you so much for having me. Tom E. Alright. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Jimmy Chen one more quick word from our sponsor. This episode was brought to you by six cents, powered by AI and Predictive Analytics. Six cents helps you unite your entire revenue team with a shared set of data to achieve predictable revenue growth. So please, to support the show support our sponsor so you could check them out, please. Again. Goto Apple. You can leave a five star review for the show that would help us to grow. You can also connect with me. I am Tom. A lame O on LinkedIn. I am running Mondays for this podcast. I'm in 80 over a gong Love to connect. I would love to chat with you about anything revenue related or otherwise. So thanks again for listening. Hope you have a great day. Cheers, E.

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