The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 2 months ago

Ep 131: How To Build A Successful Sales Career w/ Shane Oren, SVP Sales at Recurly

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 131: How To Build A Successful Sales Career w/ Shane Oren, SVP Sales at Recurly

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, thank God it's monday.Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast. This is your host Tom Alamo. This iswhere revenue leaders and operators come to learn the tips, the tricks andtactics that they need to be successful in their jobs. I'm your host tom Alamo.I am an au gong doing some work here for the Pavilion team. Obviouslyexcited to be here and run this episode for you. My guest is just an absolutemaniac today. In the best way possible. I loved, we love talking to Shane or inwho is the S. V. P. Of sales over at rick early formerly was in sales atApplied Materials net suite with Senior director of sales at sat metrics. OurVP of sales at nice sat metrics before he took this role or curly about twoyears ago. Great conversation talking about how to build up your sales whereI think you're really going to enjoy this one. If you do make sure to hit meup, let me know what you think about it on linkedin again. My name is Tom Alamo.Right before we get to this week's episode, let's get a shout out to oursponsor. This episode is brought to you by insight squared advanced revenueanalytics and forecasting for today's B two B organizations. Your revenue teamwakes up every day with questions insights squared, gives you the datadriven answers in real time. Get 350 out of the box reports and dashboards.Self service. No code. All right now let's get straight to our episode.Alright Chain or in welcome to the Pavilion podcast. Good afternoon. Howare you doing? Great Brandon. Thanks for having me today. Yeah man, I'mexcited to uh, to get into this. And uh, we're talking the last few days of themonth, we're crossing our fingers and we're trying to push a few deals overthe line. So I'm excited to uh, to talk to you and hopefully this will send yousome good vibes. I need the good vibes. We got a lot of big deals right now.It's exciting time having a hell of a growth here at record these, so it's anexciting place to be. But yeah, I happen to be here today and let's jumpinto whatever questions you might have. All right, let's do it. Let's do it. So,um, before we get into all the good stuff around sales and leadership andwhatnot. I gotta call out. It's not every day that you see a Girl Scouttroop leader on someone's linked in. So you, I'd be remiss to not bring that upand and uh, and ask you about how that came to be. Yeah, well, you know,interesting interesting stories. So yeah, my daughter said, hey, I want todo Girl Scouts, I was like, great. There was no troops in our neighborhood.So they were all full, is that well they want me to do it is to start yourown. I was like, all right, well do you guys allow male leaders because I'm infor that. And uh, you know, I went from being a soccer coach and kind of gothrough that, you know, a lot of these kids that you know, you can reach outto and say, hey, you guys want to join. And I kind of told her from the startshe doesn't like the girly things, She didn't wanna, you know, plant flowersand arts and crafts. She wanted to learn things skills. And I was like,all right, so I'm gonna approach is a...

...little bit different. So our slogan was,this is not your sister's Girl Scout troop and uh, you know, we did thingslike teach them how to make fire six different ways, A nine volt battery offlint stick, you know, sticks revenue together. Then we taught them how towork on their bicycles, heck had to build rockets. We went to the PinewoodDerby for the Boy scouts and we kind of invaded on their race day. We didn'task. And we just kind of showed up with our cars ready to roll and likeanyone's welcome except for girls. So you guys can have your own track and ifsomebody wins, then we'll put your name on a plaque somewhere else. Now, justfor the fun of it, they had it for that day. If you paid 100 bucks and donated100 bucks towards the track maintenance, you can get your troop name on the sideof their track. So we definitely decided to donate that 100 bucks toprove we were there. And not only were we there with the fastest car that day.So that's epic. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So, and is that still ongoing? It'snot, we did it for three years. It just became too hard to manage. A lot of thegirls getting older getting into travel sports. They don't have the time tocommit every friday to that. So we did it for three years and then we foldedthat. True. Yeah, fair enough. And just to cover off on this, you know how todo all those things, You know how to personally start a fire six ways andchange it by six, I'm like, I should have been a member of this. Truebecause I don't use those. Yeah, I was an eagle scout. So we learned a lot ofit, right? And then just a lot my trial by fire. So you know the model that Ibring into my sales the same thing. I'm using my personal life. Like you couldpay somebody to do it, but you're not going to learn that skill. If you takethe time to learn how to do it yourself. If anyone else can do it and they puttheir pants on the same way you do then why can't you do it? And you know, Ichallenge my sales team to that all the time. Yes, I can go buy a lead list,but you guys could generate your own lead list if you just put some effortinto it and be higher quality because you guys did it. So I kind of think ofit the same way, right? I approach it that same way, teach the kids how to dothese things, get them smart on this stuff. There's nothing says you can'tdo it. You go camping, taught them have like stack rocks on the right and theleft side of the road for directions, so they don't get lost on the way back.Basic stuff, right? But you'll you'll find is the basics are often wherepeople miss and they skip that step and go to fast forward. Well, I feel likehow many times are you going to need to fix a bicycle or start a fire? Six ways,Who knows? But the act of solving problems, right? Like the that's askill in its own right, right? And I imagine like in the start up world andin sales certainly like you've been in this for a long time, Like that's halfthe game right? It's like, it's doing things outside of your job descriptionor outside of what you're supposed to do to get the job done right? Like ifyou're you're scrapping and trying to get things done. I feel like a lot offolks listening are probably in that mindset right now, nodding their headslike, yeah, I'm like, I'm doing everything that I can to try to getthis deal in or try to move our, you know, us forward on this. Okay. Arewherever we are. Yeah. So I find a lot...

...that people always say like, hey,that's not my job and the people that are behind in the number find reasonsto say that's not my job. We don't have this feature, it's somebody else'sfault. And when you find is a common trait for the ones that are successfuland really blowing it out of the park are they're the ones to say it's not myjob, but I could write a statement of work. I could do this, I'll go helplegal, do that. And they're the ones that don't take no for an answer andend up being a rock star. So I'm hoping at a young age you start to teach abouta problem solved and they can just carry that problem resolution skillthrough their career and end up, I hope all of them end up in sales, but younever know. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So, um going into your career, it lookedlike on linkedin, I, I could be mistaken, but it looks like you didn'tget into sales to like 10 years in to your career. Is that right? I was 20years in. So I get, I get out of the air force, I went to go work at acompany called applied materials, nobody on this podcast going to knowwho they are. They're semiconductor equipment manufacturing company. Sothere's not a single device in this world that doesn't go through one oftheir tools. That's your cell phone, your laptop, anything electronics, youname it. I did plasma physics for 15 of those years working on high densityplasma tools. And it wasn't till I moved to the bay area and I startedtalking to me, I used to host a friday night poker game. Just the way thenetwork meet other dads in the neighborhood, figure out who's who inthe zoo and you know right. And uh her now was every time we sit down at thepoker table they're like, oh you know, I got house in Hawaii, I got a house inTahoe house in Mexico like men, what do you guys do for a living. So I startedjust making that the first question eventually like, hey welcome to pokergame. What do you do? What company you work for? Who are you? Software,software, software, software. Every single one of them told me software.And so after working 15 years that applied, I kind of quit cold turkey andI said I'm going into sales And so I switched from doing really engineeringdriven, you're in a bunny suit in a factory, 12, 14 hours a day working,you know, 100 hours a week To sales. And uh you know, I got turned down alot and uh my first job was with net suite, I interviewed 16 differentpeople had to interview me because what does this guy know, who's a plasmaphysicist, what does he know about sales? And the answer was nothing, nota damn thing, but it couldn't have been any harder than what I was doing. Andso on that 16th interview, I'll never forget Jeff Honey Coleman's name, hewas the president of sales. And that's why at the time the guy hung up on mesaid change is just not gonna work. And it hung up the phone. So I picked itback up, call them back again said, hey, you don't hang up on me, come on, giveme a shot. If I don't make my annual number six months you can fire me, Iwill fight it, I'll walk away. And he goes, seriously? I was like, yep, let'sgo. He said, great show up at this building, which is on gateway drives toshow up on monday at eight AM. So there,...

I was never done sales before. Now Itold him I'm gonna make my annual number six months. And uh, I gotta forhow to do sales. So yeah, it wasn't 10 years, it was 15 by the time it's allsaid and done, I love what I do. So I felt like it was very easy to get intosales. So I mean, the question on my mind is like, did you hit annual quotawithin six Months? I did. So they gave me the lowest performing patch in thecompany's history. It was San Jose. And for anyone that knows like San Jose inthe four weight area codes. I couldn't sell the companies outside of the fouraway in the South Bay. Less than 50 employee companies. The only ones inthe software space. All right, well how many are there? SoI took an engineering approach. I printed out a google map and I lookedup and put a grid, a one mile by one mile grid over the entire area for aweight. I looked at every company in a one. Great. There's six of them and soon and so forth. Through the entire grid. I only got through the first tworows before I made my entire annual quota in less than six months, wow. Sowhat you'll see on that resume in my linkedin profile is that hey, after sixmonths he said, Hey Shane, you want to be a manager said, yeah, this is great.Take these two individuals that have never made their number and fire themand then we'll make you a manager wait a second. I don't, I don't know them.I'm not going to fire them. Like I'm not going to fire and I haven'tpersonally had an effect on. So no, they said, great. Then you either getthem to their annual number in the next six months or there's no managementposition for you. Alright, challenge accepted. And so we took the two nonperformers, We got 109% and the other 1-98% consider that a pretty goodsuccess considering they were at less than 10% each when I took them on sixmonths into their role. So fast forward to the end of that first year. Theygave me a team on the west and then two teams and I love it. Like I lovemanaging and taking people that probably shouldn't be in that role buthave the fire, have the passion, want to be in sales and want to besuccessful and don't take no for an answer and turn them into rock stars.Like there's no better feeling, not money or otherwise. Right? Like whenyou see those people put the shoulders back chin up, they know they can now gosell anything to anybody. That's why I do this job. What did you tell thosepeople? Because you only had six months of sales experience and you'reobviously a very smart and driven guy, but maybe you probably didn't know alot about sales strategies and tactics except what you learned in those firstsix months. So what did you actually do with them? That was like, that changedthe behavior so strongly. Yeah. So it was a simple conversation and theconversation that kind of goes something along the lines of thefollowing. Hey guys, you're not going to report to me, You got six months tomake your annual number and they're like, yeah, whatever guy. And it's like,tell you what, if I can prospect and get more outbound book meetings thanyou in the next 30 days, you're fired. So I'm gonna run a patch, manage youguys manage the other team members and...

...beat you. And all of a sudden these twopeople turned around one male, one female, Right? So it wasn't, it wasn'ta gender thing was just mindset. And what it came down to was it was lack ofconfidence. Neither one of them were from our space, one was a controller.One of the next CFO, they weren't from here, they didn't really know how tosell. But next week at the time thought that if they hired people from thefinancial or Fintech space, they'd be better salespeople. But then theydidn't enable them by giving them sales training. They put him through thestandard sales training, they put everyone else through and they weren'tsuccessful. So, by challenging them and showing that I'm willing to do the work,I'm asking them to do. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna do it better and faster.They know where I came from. They saw that we started around the same timeperiod, right? So they knew what I was capable of. And I think that was fired.They fired him up, right? They had somebody there to challenge them. Sonothing fancy no great, no great story other than just putting it out thereand tell them I'll do what they're gonna do. Yeah. I'm curious like howbig of an affected being in the Air force have just on your mindset as youwere handling your own business and changing crews as well as when you'refirst starting to lead people. I'd say it had an impact. I mean, I was uh, Idon't want to see a troubled teen. I'd just gotten a lot of trouble, right?Like, like anyone else, but I didn't know what I wanted to do when I got tothe military. I knew I want to be an engineer. Like I love numbers, I loveelectronics, that's where I was going to go. But then when I got to my meetmy first engineer, when I got to apply it, I was like, wait a second. One ofthese things is not like the other, I like to talk you like to be quiet, I'moutgoing. You're not. And I was like, well I'm not an engineer, but it'sreally cool. So I would tell you if we fast forward the reason I'm successfulnow and the reason I have had the winds that I've had is because I applyengineering to the sales process. I make it about the numbers. Anyone thatsays otherwise. Oh, sales are so many other things stop at the end of the day.Yes. Could I say that you're a better closure then? I am sure, but that meansI have a close rate and I know what my pipeline multipliers gotta be to hit myclothes rate. So for me it's simple math. If you just apply the math andapplied at a personal level, not at a corporate level where people get lostin the, in the levels you yourself as a salesperson, you also know what yourclose rate is. And I challenge my SDRs, I challenge my A S. I challenge my VPsto know what their clothes rate is because if you know that, then I knowwhat I need at the top of the funnel to put an output at the bottom of thefunnel, thus success, what do you look for? You know, you're saying earlierthat you take them without the right skills or without sales skills, right?But they have the right mindset then, you know, hey, you can, you can getthem to win. Right? So in the interview process, whether it's a BDR or whetherit's, you know, the Director of sales,...

...it's, it's under you. Like, what is itthat you're looking for outside of credentials and things like that thatare more like, you know, internal and, and mindset related. Yeah, it's a, it'sa great question actually. So if you were talking to my wife, she'd laughright now because what we do, you know, I've hired lifeguards, I've hiredbartenders, I've hired my son's batting coach right? Like I get to the ballfield and there's tryouts and they hire this kid to come and be an independentscout and kind of give everyone their players ranking as I'm watching it happen throughoutthe day. This scout is going up to every single dad, Hey, my name is so,and so your son did really well, what's your name? And not only did he remembertheir name when they were leaving, he was like, hey, by jim by Shane, like heknew them and he remembered in an hour later and I was like, that's a skillset because the sales guy has to remember who you talk to, where you methim, what your conversations about so you can recall that I end up hiringthat guy, he had no idea what sales was. I brought him in to be an SDR sixmonths later, I turned into a sales guy needs my highest producing guy twoyears in a row, like the lifeguard, same, same skill set, the bartender,same skill set. He was personable. He could talk to people. Now I'm not gonnasay I'm batting 1000 that every single person you'd hire out of a kind of aweird location is going to be successful. But if I look back at thetrack record, the ones who enjoy having a conversation who ask more questionsthan they answer the person who kind of leads that conversation, they're theones that are gonna be successful in my organ. And I think because failure isnot an option, maybe it's cliche, but they don't come from money. They comefrom a place of genuine wanting to know about you and what drives you to makethat decision. And if you connect with the prospect, people still buy frompeople at the end of the day. Uh I think that's why those three cases Igave you have been successful is because they get to know him as aperson, sell to them second and that doesn't work in everyone's salesenvironment, right? It happens to work in mind because we're establishingrelationships were building long two year, three year contracts where youbetter know, hey, so and so you sold me last year. I have another question, I'dlike to talk to you again, even though they've got an account manager, they'vegot a CSM they're coming back to the salesperson that's success in myopinion, cause now you've established that relationship and they're comingback for a second round? Absolutely. I'm curious whether it was early inyour sales career or leadership career. Were there any resources, you know,books or anything like that that you found helpful as part of your growthtrajectory. Everyone's gonna laugh because I think it is cliche, butGlengarry glen ross is definitely like I watched that every monday morning,like that's how I start every single week, that's how I started my week 21/2 minutes seen, get fired up, move on. Right. Like I guess if you treateveryone the way you want to be treated and we were on a manager's meeting thisweek, we're like, well that's not...

...really okay. You should treat them theway they want to be treated. And it took me a minute to wrap my head aroundthat. And that is, you know, when you're, when you're a purchaser and foreveryone, let's listen you to buy a car. Nobody likes the car salesman, Why?Because they treat you the way they want to treat you, not the way you wantto be treated and somebody could revolutionize the car buying market,which I think they really have like carve on, on some of these apps. That'sa whole another segment. Um, but I think that's the biggest life lesson isyou don't have to know it all. And I think when you can say, hey part ofyour prospect, I don't actually know that answer. I'll get back to you. Twothings have happened in that one moment, one great sales technique because nowI've got a reason to follow up with you a day a week or so later, right? Two isyou've shown them that you're not full of it because we all think cardealerships and those sales guys, you know, people call them stealer shipsfor a reason you think they're just there to con you and get you tosomething even if that's not what you want. So by saying, I don't know andgetting back to them, you become human. You show them that you're just notgiving them Bs and blowing hot air. So I know that was not the answer to thequestion you asked, but I'm not a big book reader. I'm a big interviewer. Ilove talking just like you're doing here, talk to the sales leaders, talkto people who bought software at that poker game. Hey guys, what do you hatewhen a sales guy do you hate when they send you an in mail on linkedin andthey pay me the very next day. What fires you up? I love doing what you'redoing right here in a real life setting with the poker game. Whether it be justa barbecue in the backyard. We're just following up with my prospects that myteam has sold two and saying, hey, how'd you like that? Was it good? Whatcan we do better for you again, bringing it back to that human aspectand figure out what drives people to buy. It's always the best product thatwins. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah, absolutely not. It sounds likeyou're, you're also someone that's like, you know, you're always looking foropportunities to improve, right? Part of that could be picking out thebaseball coach, right that has the skill set. He had that skill set infront of a bunch of other parents, right? But but not everyone may berecognized that and then saw the opportunity that he could be into salessimilar with the bartender, the lifeguard, you know, whoever else, thezookeeper, whoever else that you're hiring out there. So I think thatthat's certainly part of it and then even talking to other people that youknow in the space, people in different spaces that you're always just tryingto learn from different scenarios and I think that's underrated. We think thatwe can only maybe learn from books or from a Lincoln thought leader or thingsthat are always super specific to like sass sales, but I think there's, youknow, lessons you can learn all over that. You can apply to your job. Yeah,I would caution people that. I don't think that it's bad to read books, readbooks, you learn people, write things down. We pass along knowledge right?It's a great way to do it. But times change. The time change fast. And ifyou adopt, let's just say challenger as your sales methodology that yourorganization is going to adopt and you...

...dive into that 100% Challenger reallyhasn't evolved in the last 10 to 15 years. They're not telling you anythingnew, ask more questions than right, Ask more questions and you answer asked afollow up question, challenge them on why that way, why can't you do it thisway, who's behind that? Who created that? That's basic, getting to knowpeople write your five, who, what, when, where wise if you just kind of go backto the basics on it, that's important. So what I would say if I wanted to giveadvices, don't believe that there's only one way to do something. Alwayskeep your mind open that the buyer may want to buy a different way than youwant to sell. So meet the buyer the way they want to buy and you'll besuccessful. Mm let's talk for a minute about what your, some of the problemsthat you're solving, some of the things that you're building network early. Um,tell me a little bit about that. Sure, So rick early is a subscriptionbuilding tool. Let's break it down real Lehman, you've got HBO max, you wantyour HBO subscription. That subscription has to run through abuilding company Now, everyone should say, Oh man, it's easy. I just, youjust sign up and I build you $10 a month and that's no problem. Wellsigning up and accepting the first payment in building is actually theeasiest thing you've got to do. The hardest thing is You now add on asecond channel and I give you that offering for 199 and I've got to nowget that bill correct at your next bill because now we're 10 months into yourfirst year contract and I've got to add it on for two months and get yourrenewal correct that it has all of your billing correct? This is a pain andthat's not even really what rick early saw and we solve that. But the majorthing is you lost your credit card, you cancelled it and the bank issued you anew one. Did you remember to call all your subscriptions and renew them?Probably not. I would say some people do this on purpose right? Just cancelthe card and hey, if if they don't get signed back up for they didn't need it.Recurrently actually has relationships with the banks that allows us to updateyour card and account information without you ever having to call us andreissue us that new card, you've got to establish those relationships. So inthe ability to reduce what we would call involuntary turn voluntary youcall me and say hey Shane, I went out of my contract, I'm over. I'm done withmy month a month subscription. Whether it's bark box, the tv subscription, youname it. Involuntary is really the ability when you insufficient funds onthat card. Hey if you didn't pay your bill, do they cancel you right away? Dothey retry your card on the 15th and the 31st of the month knowing that'syour payday. Do they have the ability to get your updated card number right?These are things that sound simple but they are really complicated because ofthe rules that are behind it as far as what's called interchange you and Idon't know anything about it. It's a name that means nothing. But if you'rea business interchanges the fees they...

...get charged when they charge you forthat products. If I charge you for your $5 subscription, but I had to try yourcard four times in order to get that charge to go through, I actually pay afee every time I attempt to process that transaction on your card. So nowmy $5 that I wanted in my bank account is actually only $4.19. So now itaffects your customer acquisition costs. It affects your growth cost. So it'sreally important when people set up subscription models, they understandfrequency of billing really does have an impact to your bottom line. When doyou want to recover? Damn. I'm going to send you an email saying, hey Brandon,your card expired. Could you please update it or do I have the ability todo that automatically. These are all things that we currently solves for andin the for the ever growing subscription economy, that's why we'rereally having the growth we had, we had a 300% growth here last year. We have300% growth Q one. It's phenomenal to see the amount of companies that aregoing that way and I don't mean your traditional HBO max your B two C, the Bto B companies, Gillette razor company right, they make a ton of products nowthey're trying to go direct to consumer because they're tired of getting there.You know, somebody taking their business with dollar shave club, wait asecond. They're the largest razor manufacturer in the world and theydon't have a subscription box, They have one, but it's on their website,you've got to go sign up for it and then you've got to get it when theirgateway isn't failing, which I tried three times to sign up for thatsubscription and I could never get my credit card to process because theirGateway, the thing that actually processes the transaction authorizedthe money transfer was down. So we're seeing more B two B get into this space.We are seeing obviously a ton of B two C. Growth and the fun part is we reallystart to power those companies when they're small, medium and large and wecan watch them grow and just turn into the next twitch or twitter of the world,which is pretty exciting for us to watch. That's awesome. You mentioned300% growth last year again in Q1. What's the most challenging part of allof that massive growth, the aftermath to be honest. Um If we look at it,there's two parts that are really complicated one can you hire enoughpeople to maintain that growth because you can only run 100 miles an hour forso far before your burnt out. I don't care for you. The most successful e youhave a limit of where you hit and you go, holy man, I need a break. So yougot to keep the flow of a s coming in, you got to show them career progressionso they know where they're going to. And then the second part is how do youenable all those customers? Right. We turned on 250 customers a year before450 customers the next year. Right. We're not set up to enable that many.So you've got to automate the enablement process, give your customersand make it easy for them to self enable, self implement. Right? Hey,follow these five steps and you'll be up and running. So we built thesoftware that way and we're stretching...

...its limits, right? We want to see howfar we can push it. And that's a that's a good problem to have in my book, iswhen I'm giving product new problems to solve and engineering things thatthey've never seen before. That's a good problem. Yeah. Well tell me alittle bit for um for the other sales leaders out there, what's your strategyon career progression for reps and maybe for like, frontline managers? Howdo you go about that laying that out for people? Yeah, I always like to makesure that even in my str world, my account managers, my account executivesdon't just say, hey, I've got an SMB team and I've got the other team. Well,the only place they can go is to the other team. Yeah. If I say, hey, I'venow got, even if you want to break it down by segments and call it SNB midmarket enterprise. Or if you just want to say, hey, We have an 81, 2345 andhere's what you need to do to achieve that next 80 level. It's time cappedand you know, performance based. So you've got these two things that you'vegot to go achieve. It gives them hope, right? Like they're doing this to earnsomething. Not everyone is motivated the same way and motivated by money.Right? So maybe you're motivated by money, but I'm motivated by publicrecognition. Right at the end of day we're working to make money. Let's putthat aside from the naysayers for a second. Not everybody is motivatedcause they're gonna get a $5,000 bonus or they're going to win $100 spiff.They'd rather you say their name out loud at the company all hands. So it'sa simple question in a very complicated answer because there isn't, there isn'ta simple answer for, we could probably do a whole segment just on careerprogression and how to keep employees in this great resignation state thatwe're in today, right, showing them a road map, showing them you appreciatewhat they're doing, giving them shout outs. I don't believe in hiring fromexternal. I believe in promoting from my sTR team to my ease from my ease tomy manager so on and so forth. I also believe that not every SDR wants to gointo sales and that's me right. If you're just like know everyone must goto sales, what you're doing is you're already send those sDRs to signal thatif they don't like it, they better get out of the company and find other job.Whereas I've actually made it a kind of fishing ground as you will that anyoneelse in my company can come in and say, hey, this person has expressed someinterest in being an account manager at CSM or an engineer. Great. They have to,they only one year in that role and that's kind of my career progressions.You owe me one year in each role. If you're an A. E and you exceed yourannual quota in a month six, then you've paid your dues. You gave me therevenue I wanted from you in that role. Thus I will open it up and allow you toapply for the next position when it comes available. But I always come infrom that point of view, you're there for a time period and you're there fora commitment that you made to me in the company and once you do that commitmentthat I'm willing to move you along. So open transparency from the very 1st 2ndI hire someone my skip level interview...

...or my skip level meeting with themafter they are hired? I'll walk them through that career progression lookslike can be very clear about it. There's nothing worse than you thinkthe goal post, Right? I would say the one yard line but people will know it's10 yards back. So whatever you want to call at the end of the end zone,there's a goalpost and when that goal post moves, you've killed our momentum,you killed their excitement. The joy to be there. Now they're in a negativeheadspace. We've all been there to get yourself from the negative headspaceback to positive full momentum, closing deals, getting stuff done. It's hard.And so you want to make sure they don't lose momentum. That's the biggest thingI tell everyone is look for it, see what's happening. Pay attention. Doskip levels. Don't just take your managers, your VPs input thateverything's okay on the floor. Go sit next to an A. E. For the day, right?See what they're doing. Let them ring the gong twice because they reallycrushed that deal. Like have a good time. The more you gamify it, the moreyou get to know your people. I think the better off you are absolutely mylast question for you here Shane is obviously we're on the Pavilionpodcasts and people on here interested in in, you know, networking and tryingto learn from others. Do you have a number one tip for networking orlearning from others or connecting with people maybe outside of your company toget better at you won't? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a must do it. It'sthe sole reason I joined Pavilion. If we go back for a second in thisconversation to the first question you asked me about me getting into sales, Ididn't know anything about it. Yeah, sure. I made my grid. I followed myplan but I used linked in like I would socially stock my prospects and I'dfigure out what they were into. Oh, this guy plays golf, He went to you andour, he went to Harvard. Great. So I figured out one line emails that workedand got people's attention and I networked with their friends before Ireach out to them. So they felt like I was in their inner circle, even thoughthey didn't know me, they let me in, right? And it's no different as you getolder in your career and get wiser is you still don't know everything. And ifI can reach out and this is the reason I use Pavilion is if I can reach out toother cros and say, hey, what are you experiencing right now? I'm runninginto this situation. Could I have a phone conversation with you? I've hadmore one on one, just 30 minute phone call since I joined pavilion that I'vehad in my previous 10 years. The information I learned and theinformation I'm able to share with others who are going through the samething and letting them know like, oh, it's normal. Here's what I do. And uh,a different point of view is always good. And if you think your point ofview is the only one that matters, I'm sorry you're gonna be sitting byyourself in office one day wondering what happened, right? I love the makingfriends aspect of it. I love using it to network people always think like,hey, well can I reach out to that contact? I just had a meeting with himyesterday. Can I reach out to Brandon today and ask him for a favor And theanswer is Yes. nine out of 10 times...

...people want to be helpful. They want tohelp people. They got something from. They want to feel like they'recontributing back to a group which is Pavilion. Right? So, and that if you,if you use that and take it into mind, like don't be shy, reach out. Don't berude about it. Like if you've got no purpose, you've never met that personthat is on a social network like Pavilion. Hey, so I need to know howclose is to you. Okay. I see your friends with. So, and so like wait asecond. You didn't do your homework. You don't know where they know themfrom. You didn't have a, hey, my name is Shane. I'm doing this conversationfirst. Yeah, I'd say it to my sales team all the time. Have you earned theright to ask for their help? Have you earned the right to say could you signthis contract? The answer is no. So the thing that got me most about Pavilionwas it's a contribution society. The more you contribute, the more you getand it truly is a statement that people need to hear contribute. Be part of theconversations. Be part of the slack channels that are going on, askquestions, answer questions, Then start to get to know people and ask for those30 minute sessions or 10 minute sessions. So back to your originalquestion networking is important. And if you want to know how important,start trying it and see what you get. If you really want to know how wellyour network, look at your social selling index. People don't know whatit is, but it rates your social selling ability. How often do you comment? Likepost tweet? How often are you social or are you really just somebody sit on theoutside taking and never contributing back. And I think that's an importantlesson for everyone. Is give back, contribute to the organizations werepart of like Pavilion and you'll get a lot more out of it. I love it. I loveit. Chain. Uh, we'll let you go. I appreciate your time And uh, all theadvice here got some end of month deals to close if people want to learn moreabout you and connect with you or if they want to learn more about rickearly. Where's the best place linkedin linkedin is great. If you're a Pavilionperson then please correct me on pavilion, you can slack me. I'm happyto do phone calls with you guys happen to chat about it. If you want to talkwith your team more about social selling and what that means and how itcan use the tools we have today, definitely. I'm happy to do that aswell. Like the more we can share education, the better off we'll all beawesome, appreciate your time chain. Great. Thanks Brandon. All right,Thanks for listening to that episode. This was brought to you by Insidesquared. Say goodbye to spreadsheet forecasting and hello to Crm data. Youcan trust Inside Square delivers predictive deal scoring, unmatchedvisibility and inspection. An advanced goal management for your entire team.Everything you need to take back control of the revenue process. That'sit for me. You can make sure to add me on linkedin. My name is Tom Alamo. Iwork over at going way back next week with another episode till then. Getafter it peace. Say something. Mhm.

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