The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Ep 131: How To Build A Successful Sales Career w/ Shane Oren, SVP Sales at Recurly

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 131: How To Build A Successful Sales Career w/ Shane Oren, SVP Sales at Recurly

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, thank God it's monday. Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast. This is your host Tom Alamo. This is where revenue leaders and operators come to learn the tips, the tricks and tactics that they need to be successful in their jobs. I'm your host tom Alamo. I am an au gong doing some work here for the Pavilion team. Obviously excited to be here and run this episode for you. My guest is just an absolute maniac today. In the best way possible. I loved, we love talking to Shane or in who is the S. V. P. Of sales over at rick early formerly was in sales at Applied Materials net suite with Senior director of sales at sat metrics. Our VP of sales at nice sat metrics before he took this role or curly about two years ago. Great conversation talking about how to build up your sales where I think you're really going to enjoy this one. If you do make sure to hit me up, let me know what you think about it on linkedin again. My name is Tom Alamo. Right before we get to this week's episode, let's get a shout out to our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by insight squared advanced revenue analytics and forecasting for today's B two B organizations. Your revenue team wakes up every day with questions insights squared, gives you the data driven answers in real time. Get 350 out of the box reports and dashboards. Self service. No code. All right now let's get straight to our episode. Alright Chain or in welcome to the Pavilion podcast. Good afternoon. How are you doing? Great Brandon. Thanks for having me today. Yeah man, I'm excited to uh, to get into this. And uh, we're talking the last few days of the month, we're crossing our fingers and we're trying to push a few deals over the line. So I'm excited to uh, to talk to you and hopefully this will send you some good vibes. I need the good vibes. We got a lot of big deals right now. It's exciting time having a hell of a growth here at record these, so it's an exciting place to be. But yeah, I happen to be here today and let's jump into whatever questions you might have. All right, let's do it. Let's do it. So, um, before we get into all the good stuff around sales and leadership and whatnot. I gotta call out. It's not every day that you see a Girl Scout troop leader on someone's linked in. So you, I'd be remiss to not bring that up and and uh, and ask you about how that came to be. Yeah, well, you know, interesting interesting stories. So yeah, my daughter said, hey, I want to do Girl Scouts, I was like, great. There was no troops in our neighborhood. So they were all full, is that well they want me to do it is to start your own. I was like, all right, well do you guys allow male leaders because I'm in for that. And uh, you know, I went from being a soccer coach and kind of go through that, you know, a lot of these kids that you know, you can reach out to and say, hey, you guys want to join. And I kind of told her from the start she doesn't like the girly things, She didn't wanna, you know, plant flowers and arts and crafts. She wanted to learn things skills. And I was like, all right, so I'm gonna approach is a...

...little bit different. So our slogan was, this is not your sister's Girl Scout troop and uh, you know, we did things like teach them how to make fire six different ways, A nine volt battery of flint stick, you know, sticks revenue together. Then we taught them how to work on their bicycles, heck had to build rockets. We went to the Pinewood Derby for the Boy scouts and we kind of invaded on their race day. We didn't ask. And we just kind of showed up with our cars ready to roll and like anyone's welcome except for girls. So you guys can have your own track and if somebody wins, then we'll put your name on a plaque somewhere else. Now, just for the fun of it, they had it for that day. If you paid 100 bucks and donated 100 bucks towards the track maintenance, you can get your troop name on the side of their track. So we definitely decided to donate that 100 bucks to prove we were there. And not only were we there with the fastest car that day. So that's epic. Yeah, I love it. I love it. So, and is that still ongoing? It's not, we did it for three years. It just became too hard to manage. A lot of the girls getting older getting into travel sports. They don't have the time to commit every friday to that. So we did it for three years and then we folded that. True. Yeah, fair enough. And just to cover off on this, you know how to do all those things, You know how to personally start a fire six ways and change it by six, I'm like, I should have been a member of this. True because I don't use those. Yeah, I was an eagle scout. So we learned a lot of it, right? And then just a lot my trial by fire. So you know the model that I bring into my sales the same thing. I'm using my personal life. Like you could pay somebody to do it, but you're not going to learn that skill. If you take the time to learn how to do it yourself. If anyone else can do it and they put their pants on the same way you do then why can't you do it? And you know, I challenge my sales team to that all the time. Yes, I can go buy a lead list, but you guys could generate your own lead list if you just put some effort into it and be higher quality because you guys did it. So I kind of think of it the same way, right? I approach it that same way, teach the kids how to do these things, get them smart on this stuff. There's nothing says you can't do it. You go camping, taught them have like stack rocks on the right and the left side of the road for directions, so they don't get lost on the way back. Basic stuff, right? But you'll you'll find is the basics are often where people miss and they skip that step and go to fast forward. Well, I feel like how many times are you going to need to fix a bicycle or start a fire? Six ways, Who knows? But the act of solving problems, right? Like the that's a skill in its own right, right? And I imagine like in the start up world and in sales certainly like you've been in this for a long time, Like that's half the game right? It's like, it's doing things outside of your job description or outside of what you're supposed to do to get the job done right? Like if you're you're scrapping and trying to get things done. I feel like a lot of folks listening are probably in that mindset right now, nodding their heads like, yeah, I'm like, I'm doing everything that I can to try to get this deal in or try to move our, you know, us forward on this. Okay. Are wherever we are. Yeah. So I find a lot...

...that people always say like, hey, that's not my job and the people that are behind in the number find reasons to say that's not my job. We don't have this feature, it's somebody else's fault. And when you find is a common trait for the ones that are successful and really blowing it out of the park are they're the ones to say it's not my job, but I could write a statement of work. I could do this, I'll go help legal, do that. And they're the ones that don't take no for an answer and end up being a rock star. So I'm hoping at a young age you start to teach about a problem solved and they can just carry that problem resolution skill through their career and end up, I hope all of them end up in sales, but you never know. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So, um going into your career, it looked like on linkedin, I, I could be mistaken, but it looks like you didn't get into sales to like 10 years in to your career. Is that right? I was 20 years in. So I get, I get out of the air force, I went to go work at a company called applied materials, nobody on this podcast going to know who they are. They're semiconductor equipment manufacturing company. So there's not a single device in this world that doesn't go through one of their tools. That's your cell phone, your laptop, anything electronics, you name it. I did plasma physics for 15 of those years working on high density plasma tools. And it wasn't till I moved to the bay area and I started talking to me, I used to host a friday night poker game. Just the way the network meet other dads in the neighborhood, figure out who's who in the zoo and you know right. And uh her now was every time we sit down at the poker table they're like, oh you know, I got house in Hawaii, I got a house in Tahoe house in Mexico like men, what do you guys do for a living. So I started just making that the first question eventually like, hey welcome to poker game. What do you do? What company you work for? Who are you? Software, software, software, software. Every single one of them told me software. And so after working 15 years that applied, I kind of quit cold turkey and I said I'm going into sales And so I switched from doing really engineering driven, you're in a bunny suit in a factory, 12, 14 hours a day working, you know, 100 hours a week To sales. And uh you know, I got turned down a lot and uh my first job was with net suite, I interviewed 16 different people had to interview me because what does this guy know, who's a plasma physicist, what does he know about sales? And the answer was nothing, not a damn thing, but it couldn't have been any harder than what I was doing. And so on that 16th interview, I'll never forget Jeff Honey Coleman's name, he was the president of sales. And that's why at the time the guy hung up on me said change is just not gonna work. And it hung up the phone. So I picked it back up, call them back again said, hey, you don't hang up on me, come on, give me a shot. If I don't make my annual number six months you can fire me, I will fight it, I'll walk away. And he goes, seriously? I was like, yep, let's go. He said, great show up at this building, which is on gateway drives to show up on monday at eight AM. So there,...

I was never done sales before. Now I told him I'm gonna make my annual number six months. And uh, I gotta for how to do sales. So yeah, it wasn't 10 years, it was 15 by the time it's all said and done, I love what I do. So I felt like it was very easy to get into sales. So I mean, the question on my mind is like, did you hit annual quota within six Months? I did. So they gave me the lowest performing patch in the company's history. It was San Jose. And for anyone that knows like San Jose in the four weight area codes. I couldn't sell the companies outside of the four away in the South Bay. Less than 50 employee companies. The only ones in the software space. All right, well how many are there? So I took an engineering approach. I printed out a google map and I looked up and put a grid, a one mile by one mile grid over the entire area for a weight. I looked at every company in a one. Great. There's six of them and so on and so forth. Through the entire grid. I only got through the first two rows before I made my entire annual quota in less than six months, wow. So what you'll see on that resume in my linkedin profile is that hey, after six months he said, Hey Shane, you want to be a manager said, yeah, this is great. Take these two individuals that have never made their number and fire them and then we'll make you a manager wait a second. I don't, I don't know them. I'm not going to fire them. Like I'm not going to fire and I haven't personally had an effect on. So no, they said, great. Then you either get them to their annual number in the next six months or there's no management position for you. Alright, challenge accepted. And so we took the two non performers, We got 109% and the other 1-98% consider that a pretty good success considering they were at less than 10% each when I took them on six months into their role. So fast forward to the end of that first year. They gave me a team on the west and then two teams and I love it. Like I love managing and taking people that probably shouldn't be in that role but have the fire, have the passion, want to be in sales and want to be successful and don't take no for an answer and turn them into rock stars. Like there's no better feeling, not money or otherwise. Right? Like when you see those people put the shoulders back chin up, they know they can now go sell anything to anybody. That's why I do this job. What did you tell those people? Because you only had six months of sales experience and you're obviously a very smart and driven guy, but maybe you probably didn't know a lot about sales strategies and tactics except what you learned in those first six months. So what did you actually do with them? That was like, that changed the behavior so strongly. Yeah. So it was a simple conversation and the conversation that kind of goes something along the lines of the following. Hey guys, you're not going to report to me, You got six months to make your annual number and they're like, yeah, whatever guy. And it's like, tell you what, if I can prospect and get more outbound book meetings than you in the next 30 days, you're fired. So I'm gonna run a patch, manage you guys manage the other team members and...

...beat you. And all of a sudden these two people turned around one male, one female, Right? So it wasn't, it wasn't a gender thing was just mindset. And what it came down to was it was lack of confidence. Neither one of them were from our space, one was a controller. One of the next CFO, they weren't from here, they didn't really know how to sell. But next week at the time thought that if they hired people from the financial or Fintech space, they'd be better salespeople. But then they didn't enable them by giving them sales training. They put him through the standard sales training, they put everyone else through and they weren't successful. So, by challenging them and showing that I'm willing to do the work, I'm asking them to do. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna do it better and faster. They know where I came from. They saw that we started around the same time period, right? So they knew what I was capable of. And I think that was fired. They fired him up, right? They had somebody there to challenge them. So nothing fancy no great, no great story other than just putting it out there and tell them I'll do what they're gonna do. Yeah. I'm curious like how big of an affected being in the Air force have just on your mindset as you were handling your own business and changing crews as well as when you're first starting to lead people. I'd say it had an impact. I mean, I was uh, I don't want to see a troubled teen. I'd just gotten a lot of trouble, right? Like, like anyone else, but I didn't know what I wanted to do when I got to the military. I knew I want to be an engineer. Like I love numbers, I love electronics, that's where I was going to go. But then when I got to my meet my first engineer, when I got to apply it, I was like, wait a second. One of these things is not like the other, I like to talk you like to be quiet, I'm outgoing. You're not. And I was like, well I'm not an engineer, but it's really cool. So I would tell you if we fast forward the reason I'm successful now and the reason I have had the winds that I've had is because I apply engineering to the sales process. I make it about the numbers. Anyone that says otherwise. Oh, sales are so many other things stop at the end of the day. Yes. Could I say that you're a better closure then? I am sure, but that means I have a close rate and I know what my pipeline multipliers gotta be to hit my clothes rate. So for me it's simple math. If you just apply the math and applied at a personal level, not at a corporate level where people get lost in the, in the levels you yourself as a salesperson, you also know what your close rate is. And I challenge my SDRs, I challenge my A S. I challenge my VPs to know what their clothes rate is because if you know that, then I know what I need at the top of the funnel to put an output at the bottom of the funnel, thus success, what do you look for? You know, you're saying earlier that you take them without the right skills or without sales skills, right? But they have the right mindset then, you know, hey, you can, you can get them to win. Right? So in the interview process, whether it's a BDR or whether it's, you know, the Director of sales,...

...it's, it's under you. Like, what is it that you're looking for outside of credentials and things like that that are more like, you know, internal and, and mindset related. Yeah, it's a, it's a great question actually. So if you were talking to my wife, she'd laugh right now because what we do, you know, I've hired lifeguards, I've hired bartenders, I've hired my son's batting coach right? Like I get to the ball field and there's tryouts and they hire this kid to come and be an independent scout and kind of give everyone their players ranking as I'm watching it happen throughout the day. This scout is going up to every single dad, Hey, my name is so, and so your son did really well, what's your name? And not only did he remember their name when they were leaving, he was like, hey, by jim by Shane, like he knew them and he remembered in an hour later and I was like, that's a skill set because the sales guy has to remember who you talk to, where you met him, what your conversations about so you can recall that I end up hiring that guy, he had no idea what sales was. I brought him in to be an SDR six months later, I turned into a sales guy needs my highest producing guy two years in a row, like the lifeguard, same, same skill set, the bartender, same skill set. He was personable. He could talk to people. Now I'm not gonna say I'm batting 1000 that every single person you'd hire out of a kind of a weird location is going to be successful. But if I look back at the track record, the ones who enjoy having a conversation who ask more questions than they answer the person who kind of leads that conversation, they're the ones that are gonna be successful in my organ. And I think because failure is not an option, maybe it's cliche, but they don't come from money. They come from a place of genuine wanting to know about you and what drives you to make that decision. And if you connect with the prospect, people still buy from people at the end of the day. Uh I think that's why those three cases I gave you have been successful is because they get to know him as a person, sell to them second and that doesn't work in everyone's sales environment, right? It happens to work in mind because we're establishing relationships were building long two year, three year contracts where you better know, hey, so and so you sold me last year. I have another question, I'd like to talk to you again, even though they've got an account manager, they've got a CSM they're coming back to the salesperson that's success in my opinion, cause now you've established that relationship and they're coming back for a second round? Absolutely. I'm curious whether it was early in your sales career or leadership career. Were there any resources, you know, books or anything like that that you found helpful as part of your growth trajectory. Everyone's gonna laugh because I think it is cliche, but Glengarry glen ross is definitely like I watched that every monday morning, like that's how I start every single week, that's how I started my week 2 1/2 minutes seen, get fired up, move on. Right. Like I guess if you treat everyone the way you want to be treated and we were on a manager's meeting this week, we're like, well that's not...

...really okay. You should treat them the way they want to be treated. And it took me a minute to wrap my head around that. And that is, you know, when you're, when you're a purchaser and for everyone, let's listen you to buy a car. Nobody likes the car salesman, Why? Because they treat you the way they want to treat you, not the way you want to be treated and somebody could revolutionize the car buying market, which I think they really have like carve on, on some of these apps. That's a whole another segment. Um, but I think that's the biggest life lesson is you don't have to know it all. And I think when you can say, hey part of your prospect, I don't actually know that answer. I'll get back to you. Two things have happened in that one moment, one great sales technique because now I've got a reason to follow up with you a day a week or so later, right? Two is you've shown them that you're not full of it because we all think car dealerships and those sales guys, you know, people call them stealer ships for a reason you think they're just there to con you and get you to something even if that's not what you want. So by saying, I don't know and getting back to them, you become human. You show them that you're just not giving them Bs and blowing hot air. So I know that was not the answer to the question you asked, but I'm not a big book reader. I'm a big interviewer. I love talking just like you're doing here, talk to the sales leaders, talk to people who bought software at that poker game. Hey guys, what do you hate when a sales guy do you hate when they send you an in mail on linkedin and they pay me the very next day. What fires you up? I love doing what you're doing right here in a real life setting with the poker game. Whether it be just a barbecue in the backyard. We're just following up with my prospects that my team has sold two and saying, hey, how'd you like that? Was it good? What can we do better for you again, bringing it back to that human aspect and figure out what drives people to buy. It's always the best product that wins. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah, absolutely not. It sounds like you're, you're also someone that's like, you know, you're always looking for opportunities to improve, right? Part of that could be picking out the baseball coach, right that has the skill set. He had that skill set in front of a bunch of other parents, right? But but not everyone may be recognized that and then saw the opportunity that he could be into sales similar with the bartender, the lifeguard, you know, whoever else, the zookeeper, whoever else that you're hiring out there. So I think that that's certainly part of it and then even talking to other people that you know in the space, people in different spaces that you're always just trying to learn from different scenarios and I think that's underrated. We think that we can only maybe learn from books or from a Lincoln thought leader or things that are always super specific to like sass sales, but I think there's, you know, lessons you can learn all over that. You can apply to your job. Yeah, I would caution people that. I don't think that it's bad to read books, read books, you learn people, write things down. We pass along knowledge right? It's a great way to do it. But times change. The time change fast. And if you adopt, let's just say challenger as your sales methodology that your organization is going to adopt and you...

...dive into that 100% Challenger really hasn't evolved in the last 10 to 15 years. They're not telling you anything new, ask more questions than right, Ask more questions and you answer asked a follow up question, challenge them on why that way, why can't you do it this way, who's behind that? Who created that? That's basic, getting to know people write your five, who, what, when, where wise if you just kind of go back to the basics on it, that's important. So what I would say if I wanted to give advices, don't believe that there's only one way to do something. Always keep your mind open that the buyer may want to buy a different way than you want to sell. So meet the buyer the way they want to buy and you'll be successful. Mm let's talk for a minute about what your, some of the problems that you're solving, some of the things that you're building network early. Um, tell me a little bit about that. Sure, So rick early is a subscription building tool. Let's break it down real Lehman, you've got HBO max, you want your HBO subscription. That subscription has to run through a building company Now, everyone should say, Oh man, it's easy. I just, you just sign up and I build you $10 a month and that's no problem. Well signing up and accepting the first payment in building is actually the easiest thing you've got to do. The hardest thing is You now add on a second channel and I give you that offering for 199 and I've got to now get that bill correct at your next bill because now we're 10 months into your first year contract and I've got to add it on for two months and get your renewal correct that it has all of your billing correct? This is a pain and that's not even really what rick early saw and we solve that. But the major thing is you lost your credit card, you cancelled it and the bank issued you a new one. Did you remember to call all your subscriptions and renew them? Probably not. I would say some people do this on purpose right? Just cancel the card and hey, if if they don't get signed back up for they didn't need it. Recurrently actually has relationships with the banks that allows us to update your card and account information without you ever having to call us and reissue us that new card, you've got to establish those relationships. So in the ability to reduce what we would call involuntary turn voluntary you call me and say hey Shane, I went out of my contract, I'm over. I'm done with my month a month subscription. Whether it's bark box, the tv subscription, you name it. Involuntary is really the ability when you insufficient funds on that card. Hey if you didn't pay your bill, do they cancel you right away? Do they retry your card on the 15th and the 31st of the month knowing that's your payday. Do they have the ability to get your updated card number right? These are things that sound simple but they are really complicated because of the rules that are behind it as far as what's called interchange you and I don't know anything about it. It's a name that means nothing. But if you're a business interchanges the fees they...

...get charged when they charge you for that products. If I charge you for your $5 subscription, but I had to try your card four times in order to get that charge to go through, I actually pay a fee every time I attempt to process that transaction on your card. So now my $5 that I wanted in my bank account is actually only $4.19. So now it affects your customer acquisition costs. It affects your growth cost. So it's really important when people set up subscription models, they understand frequency of billing really does have an impact to your bottom line. When do you want to recover? Damn. I'm going to send you an email saying, hey Brandon, your card expired. Could you please update it or do I have the ability to do that automatically. These are all things that we currently solves for and in the for the ever growing subscription economy, that's why we're really having the growth we had, we had a 300% growth here last year. We have 300% growth Q one. It's phenomenal to see the amount of companies that are going that way and I don't mean your traditional HBO max your B two C, the B to B companies, Gillette razor company right, they make a ton of products now they're trying to go direct to consumer because they're tired of getting there. You know, somebody taking their business with dollar shave club, wait a second. They're the largest razor manufacturer in the world and they don't have a subscription box, They have one, but it's on their website, you've got to go sign up for it and then you've got to get it when their gateway isn't failing, which I tried three times to sign up for that subscription and I could never get my credit card to process because their Gateway, the thing that actually processes the transaction authorized the money transfer was down. So we're seeing more B two B get into this space. We are seeing obviously a ton of B two C. Growth and the fun part is we really start to power those companies when they're small, medium and large and we can watch them grow and just turn into the next twitch or twitter of the world, which is pretty exciting for us to watch. That's awesome. You mentioned 300% growth last year again in Q1. What's the most challenging part of all of that massive growth, the aftermath to be honest. Um If we look at it, there's two parts that are really complicated one can you hire enough people to maintain that growth because you can only run 100 miles an hour for so far before your burnt out. I don't care for you. The most successful e you have a limit of where you hit and you go, holy man, I need a break. So you got to keep the flow of a s coming in, you got to show them career progression so they know where they're going to. And then the second part is how do you enable all those customers? Right. We turned on 250 customers a year before 450 customers the next year. Right. We're not set up to enable that many. So you've got to automate the enablement process, give your customers and make it easy for them to self enable, self implement. Right? Hey, follow these five steps and you'll be up and running. So we built the software that way and we're stretching...

...its limits, right? We want to see how far we can push it. And that's a that's a good problem to have in my book, is when I'm giving product new problems to solve and engineering things that they've never seen before. That's a good problem. Yeah. Well tell me a little bit for um for the other sales leaders out there, what's your strategy on career progression for reps and maybe for like, frontline managers? How do you go about that laying that out for people? Yeah, I always like to make sure that even in my str world, my account managers, my account executives don't just say, hey, I've got an SMB team and I've got the other team. Well, the only place they can go is to the other team. Yeah. If I say, hey, I've now got, even if you want to break it down by segments and call it SNB mid market enterprise. Or if you just want to say, hey, We have an 81, 2345 and here's what you need to do to achieve that next 80 level. It's time capped and you know, performance based. So you've got these two things that you've got to go achieve. It gives them hope, right? Like they're doing this to earn something. Not everyone is motivated the same way and motivated by money. Right? So maybe you're motivated by money, but I'm motivated by public recognition. Right at the end of day we're working to make money. Let's put that aside from the naysayers for a second. Not everybody is motivated cause they're gonna get a $5,000 bonus or they're going to win $100 spiff. They'd rather you say their name out loud at the company all hands. So it's a simple question in a very complicated answer because there isn't, there isn't a simple answer for, we could probably do a whole segment just on career progression and how to keep employees in this great resignation state that we're in today, right, showing them a road map, showing them you appreciate what they're doing, giving them shout outs. I don't believe in hiring from external. I believe in promoting from my sTR team to my ease from my ease to my manager so on and so forth. I also believe that not every SDR wants to go into sales and that's me right. If you're just like know everyone must go to sales, what you're doing is you're already send those sDRs to signal that if they don't like it, they better get out of the company and find other job. Whereas I've actually made it a kind of fishing ground as you will that anyone else in my company can come in and say, hey, this person has expressed some interest in being an account manager at CSM or an engineer. Great. They have to, they only one year in that role and that's kind of my career progressions. You owe me one year in each role. If you're an A. E and you exceed your annual quota in a month six, then you've paid your dues. You gave me the revenue I wanted from you in that role. Thus I will open it up and allow you to apply for the next position when it comes available. But I always come in from that point of view, you're there for a time period and you're there for a commitment that you made to me in the company and once you do that commitment that I'm willing to move you along. So open transparency from the very 1st 2nd I hire someone my skip level interview...

...or my skip level meeting with them after they are hired? I'll walk them through that career progression looks like can be very clear about it. There's nothing worse than you think the goal post, Right? I would say the one yard line but people will know it's 10 yards back. So whatever you want to call at the end of the end zone, there's a goalpost and when that goal post moves, you've killed our momentum, you killed their excitement. The joy to be there. Now they're in a negative headspace. We've all been there to get yourself from the negative headspace back to positive full momentum, closing deals, getting stuff done. It's hard. And so you want to make sure they don't lose momentum. That's the biggest thing I tell everyone is look for it, see what's happening. Pay attention. Do skip levels. Don't just take your managers, your VPs input that everything's okay on the floor. Go sit next to an A. E. For the day, right? See what they're doing. Let them ring the gong twice because they really crushed that deal. Like have a good time. The more you gamify it, the more you get to know your people. I think the better off you are absolutely my last question for you here Shane is obviously we're on the Pavilion podcasts and people on here interested in in, you know, networking and trying to learn from others. Do you have a number one tip for networking or learning from others or connecting with people maybe outside of your company to get better at you won't? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a must do it. It's the sole reason I joined Pavilion. If we go back for a second in this conversation to the first question you asked me about me getting into sales, I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, sure. I made my grid. I followed my plan but I used linked in like I would socially stock my prospects and I'd figure out what they were into. Oh, this guy plays golf, He went to you and our, he went to Harvard. Great. So I figured out one line emails that worked and got people's attention and I networked with their friends before I reach out to them. So they felt like I was in their inner circle, even though they didn't know me, they let me in, right? And it's no different as you get older in your career and get wiser is you still don't know everything. And if I can reach out and this is the reason I use Pavilion is if I can reach out to other cros and say, hey, what are you experiencing right now? I'm running into this situation. Could I have a phone conversation with you? I've had more one on one, just 30 minute phone call since I joined pavilion that I've had in my previous 10 years. The information I learned and the information I'm able to share with others who are going through the same thing and letting them know like, oh, it's normal. Here's what I do. And uh, a different point of view is always good. And if you think your point of view is the only one that matters, I'm sorry you're gonna be sitting by yourself in office one day wondering what happened, right? I love the making friends aspect of it. I love using it to network people always think like, hey, well can I reach out to that contact? I just had a meeting with him yesterday. Can I reach out to Brandon today and ask him for a favor And the answer is Yes. nine out of 10 times...

...people want to be helpful. They want to help people. They got something from. They want to feel like they're contributing back to a group which is Pavilion. Right? So, and that if you, if you use that and take it into mind, like don't be shy, reach out. Don't be rude about it. Like if you've got no purpose, you've never met that person that is on a social network like Pavilion. Hey, so I need to know how close is to you. Okay. I see your friends with. So, and so like wait a second. You didn't do your homework. You don't know where they know them from. You didn't have a, hey, my name is Shane. I'm doing this conversation first. Yeah, I'd say it to my sales team all the time. Have you earned the right to ask for their help? Have you earned the right to say could you sign this contract? The answer is no. So the thing that got me most about Pavilion was it's a contribution society. The more you contribute, the more you get and it truly is a statement that people need to hear contribute. Be part of the conversations. Be part of the slack channels that are going on, ask questions, answer questions, Then start to get to know people and ask for those 30 minute sessions or 10 minute sessions. So back to your original question networking is important. And if you want to know how important, start trying it and see what you get. If you really want to know how well your network, look at your social selling index. People don't know what it is, but it rates your social selling ability. How often do you comment? Like post tweet? How often are you social or are you really just somebody sit on the outside taking and never contributing back. And I think that's an important lesson for everyone. Is give back, contribute to the organizations were part of like Pavilion and you'll get a lot more out of it. I love it. I love it. Chain. Uh, we'll let you go. I appreciate your time And uh, all the advice here got some end of month deals to close if people want to learn more about you and connect with you or if they want to learn more about rick early. Where's the best place linkedin linkedin is great. If you're a Pavilion person then please correct me on pavilion, you can slack me. I'm happy to do phone calls with you guys happen to chat about it. If you want to talk with your team more about social selling and what that means and how it can use the tools we have today, definitely. I'm happy to do that as well. Like the more we can share education, the better off we'll all be awesome, appreciate your time chain. Great. Thanks Brandon. All right, Thanks for listening to that episode. This was brought to you by Inside squared. Say goodbye to spreadsheet forecasting and hello to Crm data. You can trust Inside Square delivers predictive deal scoring, unmatched visibility and inspection. An advanced goal management for your entire team. Everything you need to take back control of the revenue process. That's it for me. You can make sure to add me on linkedin. My name is Tom Alamo. I work over at going way back next week with another episode till then. Get after it peace. Say something. Mhm.

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