The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

Ep 122: Growing From A VP to GM Role w/ Paul Sebastien

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 122: Growing From A VP to GM Role w/ Paul Sebastien

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.  

All right, thank God it's monday.Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast where we show you the tips that tricksthe tactics that you need to be successful as a revenue leader andoperator. I'm your host Tom Alamo. I'm an 80 over gone doing some work herefor the Pavilion crew, excited to bring you a great episode this week. Thisweek I'm talking to paul Sebastian paul's got a freaking rap sheet ofaccomplishments. Currently he is the chief marketing officer at OffensiveSecurity. He's a startup mentor and investor at the Alchemist accelerator,Obviously a member at Pavilion, formerly he's done a ton of things,been involved with a lot of acquisitions everywhere from being theGM at Microsoft and Sony to being a VP and GM at Disney mobile CMO at T mobileand being the GM at you. To me that helped to launch their entire B two Bbrand. Amongst many other things, paul has just an amazing set ofaccomplishments and get into a lot of great topics and I think you're gonnalearn a lot from him and pick up on his infectious energy before we get to thatconversations, give a quick shout out to our sponsor. This episode is broughtto you by drift. More than 50,000 businesses use drift to grow revenueand increase customer lifetime value faster drift, helps their customersalign sales and marketing on a single platform to deliver a unified customerexperience where people are free to have a conversation with the businessat any time on their terms, learn more at drift dot com. Without further ado,let's get straight into my conversation with paul Sebastian. Let's go All right,paul, Good afternoon, Welcome to the Pavilion podcast. How are you? I amdoing well, thanks for having me on. Yeah, excited to have you here andbefore we get into uh your accolades, your experience, everything like that.Are you in that looks like you're in the bay Area. Are you in or where I am?Yes, I am here in the Bay Area. Okay, nice. Are you a native? I'm not anative, no, originally Minneapolis actually, but came out here back duringthe dot com one point oh days. So I've been out here a long time, then went upto Seattle at a stint there about seven, let's see about eight years up inSeattle at Microsoft and smaller roles, so and then back down to the Bay Areain 2009. Okay, awesome. Well you have quite a rap sheet as folks just heardon the intro of just amazing accomplishments and companies thatyou've been a part of throughout your career, we definitely won't have timefor all of them, but I did want to kind of harp on a few if that's alright withyou. So one that really stood out to me was GM You to me that you took over in2014 and what I think maybe a lot of people don't recognize or know at thispoint is that back then? I believe it was completely a BDC model. Um, andthey weren't selling anything B two B...

...and it sounds like you kind of tookover with that role and built everything from the B two B side. Youbuilt the brand, you built the go to market strategy. I'd love to hear abouthow that opportunity presented itself to you or how you found it and whatthat was like in building that brand, just seeing how amazingly successfulthey've been since. Yeah, great. I mean that's a great place to start and thatwas a role that I look back on fondly and learned a ton. It was also scary ashell, especially coming on board and, and having a slate like that to try tofigure out. So it was really, really an exciting time. I mean, huge credit tothe then Ceo and board I think who had this thesis around, hey, you know,we've got all this consumers or a transactional revenue. We hope peoplebuy more courses on the consumer side every single month and that they comeback. But is there a B two B, is there a saS subscription thesis here that canwork with a two sided marketplace based business? Because again, you know, you,to me is unique in that unlike other, on my learning vendors at the time,they really, they didn't create their own courses. They were really a twosided market place, much like an Ebay or others, right. And that theyfacilitated the creation of great courses, the set of tools and of coursethe, the marketplace site, but they didn't control the content. So it'slike, how do you go and create a B two B SAS offering sold to companies andorganizations? That's a recurring revenue model. Like how do you do thatwith a marketplace based consumer business? So that was really kind ofthe business and sort of market, you know, coda market challenge to figureit out, that I was lucky to get hired to help figure out and build somethingout of. So, you know, I started really with a team of really, I think it wasone or two people there were really a couple of people there who are kind ofpart time on the project? And then everything else was sort of sharedresources. So, you know, we're very scrappy early on there and had tofigure out first and foremost what is the offering. And so for me, what wasreally exciting and I really enjoyed about that was it was very unclear,especially at the time, how could a company that already has a brand thatis known for, you know, sort of consumer sites selling individualcourses? How could they come up with an offering that was compelling in the Btwo B SAs, you know, subscription context also, how would that even work?Right. So how, how do you like choose what courses? How do you get permissionto use a set of course? Is is it like a netflix kind of model with a setlibrary? Does library change? So all of those things were really part of theslate for me and my team to figure out. And so it's very much kind of a fourpiece exercise and I think the part that I really enjoyed the most of thatand I really love doing in general is figuring out that strategy, thatpositioning. Like how can we own a unique hill in a very crowded marketwhere we have this really weird unique challenge of trying to figure out howto leverages brand and build kind of a new company inside the company reallygonna build a brand inside of a brand.

And so I love that work and trying tofigure out and test and explore a number of different vectors for how todo that. And long story short, you know, we were able to come up with a go tomarket and uh, positioning and a core value prop that I felt wasdifferentiated that we could build a unique hill that we could own and wereally have to be very narrowing sharp about that. And I think that was themost important part of that early stage was just figuring out what do we wantto do, how is it different as opposed to just sort of wrote execution whereyou're just kind of blindly saying, okay, We're going to create a B2B thingis subscription offering. Let's focus all sort of on the product or on justbuilding out an offering that just leverages the existing brand that Idon't think that that would have worked. So it took a very sharp, very pointed,very unique value prop to get some early logos and get some early kind ofpilot customers on board and then we use those logos to go in and get largercompanies, larger enterprises. And so it ended up being this kind of barbellsstrategy early on there where you know, we have to figure out where we could,where our value prop and our unique positioning with this early productcould actually work and fit, get those logos build on the customer evidence,their leverage, things like events and a number of other things that we haveto do to try to scrap aly build this thing from 0-1. Yeah, I'm curious like,you know, a lot of folks listening probably have some sort of, you know,either they're at a early stage startup or maybe they have a business that's astart up within a start up or a new product or an acquisition that happenedor something like that. So I am curious like did you ever feel strapped forresources as being kind of like, you know, I hate to use in terms of likethe little brother or like you know, how did you, how did you, you know,kind of work against that or not let that diminish the value you were ableto bring to the business. That's a great question. I mean even you know,internally it was challenging, right? Because this was sort of this little, Iwouldn't say that the red headed step child, but it was sort of it was so newnation and at first of course really had no revenue. Right? And then a smallamount of revenue. Right? I mean we're going from zero literally this thingdid not exist when I joined to getting first revenue right? Those firstcustomers when you're reporting in the sort of team, you know, all handsmeetings, things like that. Hey guys, we scored our first couple yearscomparatively to the revenue being presented by the B the c part of thebusiness. It just looks so small in some kind of pathetic at first. But ofcourse, you know, we're building something from scratch, something fromnothing and we knew, I mean I think we all knew and credit to, you know, again,the then ceo aboard my team that we all had a strong thesis that look if we canfigure out how you can have, can kind of get the value prop right, right? Wecan do something differentiated and unique and add some unique value. Thatleverage is just a few of our very unique strengths that we could bring tothe space if we could execute on that...

...and get companies to see that this wasreally a better way and more frictionless way to deploy a nice broadrange of high quality online learning that was very dynamic and alwayschanging, always improving that. Plus a few other components of the offeringwere really, really, really sharply differentiated and we just have to, youknow, again I keep saying we have to really figure out what are those laserlike pinpoint sharpest parts of the value prop that we could just doubledown, triple down on and solve customer's pain kind of really enablethings that the competitors and this credit market we're just not able toaddress. So that again was key And so we knew that there was a there thereright. If we could just crack that get more and more customers leveragecustomer evidence, testimonials, things like events that we would be able tokind of build a flywheel. Unfortunately that's what's happened. And of course Ifeel huge props to the team and the team after me that continued that race.I mean they've taken many years to build it to where it is. But I meanthey just crossed, you know, they just announced recently they crossed 100millionaire are, it's just a delight to see how they've executed and how thatearly germ of the thesis and you know, the the original work that our team didhas blossomed as something like it has today. I mean it's really very, verysatisfying but again huge props to the execution of that team. Yeah,absolutely. I'm curious when I look at your history currently your CMO, you'vehad a number of CMO rolls a few Gm roles as well. Like I'd love for you totalk a little bit about the difference between those roles and maybe why youyou might prefer one or the other, why one might stand out more than anotherrole just based on your experience. Sure. You know, it's something that'scome up on Pavilion as well. I've had some questions about this because it'sinteresting I'm seeing there's more and more cases where people who are in whatare you know sort of line of business functions, it could be marketing rolesor other are you know, they go through an acquisition or there's some sort ofchange of the company and they have an opportunity to take on a GM role or GMlike role and so you know the differences between line of business oryou know for example CMO role and GM role. Something that I experienced notjust once but twice, sorry, three times in my career actually if you count theceo role as being you know kind of a very much a GM role. So that'ssomething that for me has been a really interesting straddling of world, I meanI've really, I really love it and I think it's because I have a weirdbackground I'm not straight up just coming up through the ranks throughjust marketing functions only I came at it originally from managing and runningprojects and kind of building go to markets kind of all up if you willmeeting owning the PML owning all the different parts of the business. And Ireally enjoyed that. Like I love I love actually owning A P. N. L. And that'swhy I've taken roles like the enemy rule over GM roles because I like thesort of leading the charge all up. And...

...it just happens though that marketingends up being such a an important part of these go to markets where you'retrying to drive rapid growth. So that's where the CMO roles have made a lot ofsense. And I think in my D. N. A kind of a marketing guy, a marketingstrategy guy I think at my core. I mean I like obsess over positioning andstrategy and differentiation and kind of how can we distill the essence ofwhat this offering in the market is compared to sort of competition and allthis sort of sort of four piece stuff just live even breathe that andmessaging and how you articulate that to customers. So I think that's wherethe marketing roles have made a lot of sense. And frankly you know the CMOrole as we know in recent years has been shifting more and more becomecloser to a C. R. O. Role and you know, P. And L. If not ownership butaccountability has become the norm and so it is long since the days of the CMOwho sort of levitates on a magic carpet, espousing the virtues of brandpositioning right? And lives in this sort of what was known as a formallysort of marketing already kind of almost an agency world path. And so youknow, I think being able to connect the dots to own A. P. And L. Or at leasthave accountability to be able to look at marketing as a set of tools in thequiver of tools that you have to work with to achieve a set of business goals,right? It's all about goal is all about outcomes and business goals. And so mybrain has always worked like that. I'm passionate about just finding a way toget from point A to point C. And marketing is just one of the sort ofyou know, tools in the quiver that one can use to achieve that, but it's notthe only one. And so I think that kind of lateral thinking is something Iwould encourage people who are either straddling those two worlds orinterested in moving from a GM role to marketing or marketing to to a GM likerole is that, you know, the GM role really is really a ceo role, You areall of your accountable for the health of the business, right? And that'sproduct that's marketing, that sales, it's all of it and that's the bigdistinction. You know marketing roles despite the increased accountabilityfor P. N. L. And revenue, you're still within the bounds of marketing to adegree and it's sort of your focus, your team, your resourcing GM role,totally different GM roles. Now it's more it's more like a project managerwith authority in many, many ways is one analogy. And so it's a differentway of thinking about the business and it forces you to think about businessoutcomes, business goals and using every part of your orig is tools in thequiver, not just marketing. Right? And that's a big shift and if people don'thave experience in those other areas it can be difficult to do that but youdon't need to be an expert in every single function. What you do know, doyou have to do is understand how the part to work together and how you canmuch like a conductor orchestrate the different parts of your functions towork together towards that business...

...outcome. And that's where again, Ithink that sort of sort of project management and sort of team managementexperience is just invaluable there. But you know, it comes withresponsibility and accountability because you are the buck stops heremuch like a ceo. Yeah and you've also had a great track record of joininginto companies and helping them drive through some sort of an event, you know,through several acquisitions that I see here as well. So I'm curious like, youknow, part of that, I'm sure let's give you plenty of credit and like you'vehelped to do that, but it seems like maybe you've also been really good atchoosing the right opportunity for you, where you can probably where you canprobably add the most value, right? And maybe it's someone that needs your typeof skill set to take them from that point A to point B. And I'm sure youget tons of opportunities that come your way and you obviously can't takeall of them, right? You can only take on one at a time. So I'm curious likehow do you go through the decision making process to see, okay at thisstage in your career, you've already done so much? Like how do you, how doyou determine what is a good opportunity for you where you can addthe most value? And but there's also, you know, most likely to be a strongoutcome for the business. It's a great question. And I appreciate it. And letme firstly just say how incredibly impossibly lucky I have been and, andfeel around the opportunities that I've had and the outcomes that have happened.I do not want to take, you know, credit or responsibility for uh those greatoutcomes. I mean this is, I'm part of teams and I've been very lucky toproduce some great people and great teams. I just, I cannot stress thatenough. I mean, you know, it's while I wouldn't say we just sort of like rightseat right time because I did pick some very specific opportunities and it wasa lot of blood sweat and tears to get those outcomes. Um and I really, reallyenjoyed that, but you know, I think luck and timing and um working withgreat people and then figuring out how to work with with people is key. I'vealso had some misses, so just be very clear like this has not all been roses.I I definitely had some misses and you know, some painful ones, you know, tobe honest with you, it's not all roses and I think, you know, I've tried tolearn from those misses and where those roles, you know, turned out to be verydifferent than I had hoped and expected and you know, I thought something wouldwould be one way and it didn't work out that way and the that happens, but youlive and learn. So I suppose if anything, yeah, I do have thosehighlights, but I've also got some battle scars to show for it as far aspicking opportunities. You know, I've been lucky, especially, you know, in inrecent years here to be able to pick some interesting and kind of off thebeaten path roles as well in that, you know, I've gone to different disparatespaces most recently in the cybersecurity realm where I've been forthe last few years and I get excited about. Look, I mean people are justreally disruptive market opportunities where, you know, I see either customersunderserved in some way or there's some...

...aspiration or delight that is justwaiting to be had that just that hasn't been done yet or there is a kind of adiamond in the rough opportunity where other people aren't seeing it. Butmaybe I see something that I think I, I could bring my skill set to and I thinkthose are the things I've tried to choose and that's where I think I'vebeen through some of these sort of early stage companies that have gone onto be acquired by larger companies. It's really come from that, it's kindof looking for those diamonds in the rough in some cases as opposed tothrough the obvious place. And so that's something I've tried to beconscious of. I also, again, it really comes down to saying, okay, how can Iadd some differential value? Right. How can my background, my skills addsomething that they're missing or be so complimentary or impactful in some waythat it's going to make a big difference that I think we can allachieve something great together. So that's something that just takesexploring and kind of pressure testing a bit and finding and again, it doesn'talways work out right. I definitely have had a couple of mrs there, it'salso very you know, going through acquisitions, it sounds great and rosieit's also very though disruptive to your personal life, especially when forexample when it doesn't make sense for you to sort of stay on at the acquiringcompany either because of location, like I would have had to move back toSeattle or something or. Right, so that's a factor too. And that's whereit's like, you know sometimes when acquisitions happen fairly quicklyafter a year or two it can be disruptive, right? Because then you'relike, okay, well it doesn't make sense for me to kind of continue with thisthing, I need to go find something else. And so I think that's part of theexperience as well and things are just accelerating so fast now as well. Thatthat's just I mean I have so many friends now including CMO friends whoyou know, it's like the average tenure of a CMO now is like 11 months which isjust crazy. Both, both due to, you know, I think accountability and the pressureis higher than ever. And of course everyone wants to blame marketing,right? So things are great or or you think we'll just change our marketingperson, right? So that's that's pretty funny, you know, it's like so so it'smuch like sales and that, you know, the marketing roles have become very veryshort by comparison but you know acquisitions, you know, again it can beextremely disruptive and they can kind of force a change in your career and Iguess for me, I've been lucky in the sense that when that's happened, I'vebeen able to go and find another diamond in the rough for a company thatI've been excited about and keep doing what I'm passionate about. I love it.I'd love to uh pick your brain for a minute about the Alchemist accelerator.I know you've been involved with them for for a good 67 years now and it's atopic that comes up, not, not necessarily this accelerator, but thetopic of taking your skills and experiences too, either be a mentor andadvisor or angel investor. That topic comes up a lot when talking with otherPavilion executives is something they're interested in and it seems likethere's more access to that now than ever. So I'd love to hear you talkabout, you know, your experience and, and you know what you've gained fromworking with some of those start ups...

...the past few years. Yeah, that's great.I mean, I really, number one, just in general, I really have found that Ilove helping early stage companies helping other founders, helping peoplein marketing roles and sharing, you know, any experiences insights good andbad that I've had and being helpful, they're passionate about these topicsand so it's just a lot of fun for me and I get just a lot of franklyenjoyment and satisfaction out of helping people and so it's somethingI've done for a long time and I've been involved with Alchemist now for severalyears. Alchemist is just in my opinion, very unique accelerator here in thevalley. They are just, I think that they just have incubated so many greatcompanies and I love the approach, I love how they work with their companiesto each class and how they train them and all the sharing of knowledge, allthis sort of luminaries that they have come in and help mentor. I'm justhumbled by being part of it and I really enjoy it. So I, you know, I givea couple marketing talks a year to their classes which I really enjoy andends up being both kind of a presentation about how to think alittle differently about marketing and then also it's it's just a lot of veryhands on kind of help, so it's Q. And A. It's helping and then it usually leadsto me doing some kind of ongoing helping even non advisory style, justjust you know, being sort of a fresh pair of eyes and ears to help thesefounders. So something I really, really love doing, I continue doing it andit's funny how the dots connect doing that has, has actually really uh I'vedeveloped some great friendships over the years and and I feel like I justget a lot out of it, so it's one of those things where it's like you give,you give you give, but like the karma and satisfaction ends up giving back,right? There are more opportunities for people than ever to be able to sharetheir knowledge and skills with others full stop. Right? So whether it'shelping advise accelerators or getting involved with Pavilion, I mean,Pavilion is just such a wonderful environment where people are sharingtips ideas. I have been remiss to in not doing it enough. I mean, it's beena time thing. I'm trying, trying to be more active on it. It's just beenamazing to see that forms like Quilliam have just been, you know, it's just ahuge new, I think, opportunity to share ideas and expertise and in verytactical ways to write, you know, sharing or charges saying, hey guys,I'm stuck on this. You know, working with fellow cmos that's usually helpfuland then, you know, investing, right? So, you know, there's of course moreopportunities for investing than ever. It has been truly, really democratized.Right? And so with the exception of getting access to really Premier dealflow, it's fairly easy now to get in on the opportunity to have some part in anumber of early stage companies through many of the existing forms, exchangesout there and then frankly just by...

...adding value, by offering yourexpertise and your help. It's incredible how people will come to you,right? And they'll come to you, not fundraising, but you know, you'rehelping, you're advising someone. Someone here is that you've given theadvice and suddenly you're talking with them and there is an opportunity toinvest. And so I just think it's a, it's a great exciting time. I thinkit'll get even more exciting. It's quite frankly, as we kind of take thisnext hump on the Blockchain side of things and we get past the ability tofinally tokenize. Right? So obviously there's a lot of restrictions here inthe US right now on that, but it's happening globally. You can't put itback in the box. And I think that's going to fundamentally change the way athat venture capital works or just the idea of capitalizing business entities,It will change the way that these entities are structured completely.You'll see a lot more decentralized, truly virtual companies or entitiesthat one can invest in through token purchases. So I think that's the newfrontier. And I would say that if I were someone who wanted to start to getinto this area now, I would personally spend my time on learning all aboutBlockchain right. And tokenization and defy because I think that's where andhow all this is going to be, john in the very, very near future. It will bemuch less around about the classic stages of, you know, precedes seed A B,etcetera, etcetera. You'll still of course have that, that will not go awayovernight. But I think you'll have a lot more just really truly disruptiveopportunities around Blockchain based in tokenized capitalization. And so Ithink that's a great place to get involved. You also can better quantifyin many cases your involvement as an advisor or as someone who's helpingcompanies, right? So the tokenization and having a stake in something, theseare truly, I think different and frankly better mechanisms than theexisting options based venture world has afforded, particularly in the senseof enabling almost anybody to be able to participate and then get somequantification of reward or incentive. So I mean I could talk all day aboutBlockchain but personally that's what I'm super passionate about. So what aresome of the best resources that you have for learning about? D5 Blockchainand where this is heading from? I guess it could be from any perspective, butwe're talking about from like a an investment venture capitalistperspective. God, it's a it's a great question, it's still such a Wild Westright now that there isn't really one sort of authoritative resource, there'sa number of different ways that of course one can just learn Blockchainand and defy and really understand the principles, I would start with theprinciples first actually I wouldn't just go right into the deep end andstart to get into, you know to sort of defy specifics, I would understandBlockchain from the ground up in in the...

...most simple pure form, It's actuallynot hard to learn. So understanding just the principles behind Blockchainand tokenization are a great place to start honestly, to start googling.There's also much of Youtube stuff out there. I also think that in that verysort of next phase after understanding the basics and recent Horowitz actuallytheir podcast, for example, their blog, there's a lot of great crypto stuffthere because they are of course, as you can tell a very, very passionateabout that, they just put 100 million series B into an ft marketplace open C.They've done a ton of investing their, I think Salon a others. So there's alot of good thinking there, even on the podcast front, there's a ton of podcast,I recommend Kevin Rose has a podcast now devoted to crypto, so a lot of thatsort of, you know, what it calls pseudo mainstream is good at sort ofdistilling and summarizing what sort of happening currently. Once youunderstand the basics and I think from learning from listening, readingetcetera, you'll pretty quickly kind of learn what's going on and understandjust how profound the implications are and what will be very soon possible orI'd say possible now just sort of not evenly distributed yet, as they say,right. So, you know, it's like all of the future is is basically availablenow. It truly has not been distributed yet, especially in the U. S. Which hasbeen of course very anti crypto thus far there's just you know a lot ofhurdles there but but we will get past those right and I think that's going tojust change everything. You can't put it back in a box. So I would start withthe basics, I agree you know some blogs, podcasts et cetera and uh yeah I starttheir awesome so one or two more questions for you here, you mentionedjust from you know Pavilion and also from the accelerator that not only areyou passionate about it but it's kind of this self fulfilling circle thathappens right? You help someone out. Someone else here is that you givegreat advice and then more opportunities than continue to kind ofcome your way and it feels good to help and then obviously it can be helpfulfor you if if you get the right opportunity and can invest or somethinglike that. So I'm just curious, I ask everyone this in the spirit of Pavilionis really being trying to help yourself by helping others. What's your numberone networking tip or I guess you can take that as you will but number onetip for networking in your career. Yeah. You know it's weird. I generallydespise the term networking to me. I think just the core of thatunfortunately has connotations of something of a you know I'm out therenetworking to try to get some kind of personal gain, it's it feelstransactional when it shouldn't be. Now, maybe it's just kind of reading of theword, but I think what people think of the term of networking and I need to domore networking, it ends up feeling a little self serving and I think peoplecan smell that, you know, when you're, when you're networking right? Like alot of the linkedin invites things like...

...that. It just, it ends up being sort ofso transparently transactional and self serving. And so I like to think aboutit differently. And, and perhaps as a result, I actually haven't been good. Ithink historically at the concept of quote unquote networking, probably justbecause I don't like doing it in that way. I'd rather I'd rather just findways to add value and provide something that's helpful to someone in a way thataligns just to an area that I'm passionate about, right? So it's like,it's hard for me to add value to people or things or projects if I don't havethe expertise and that, thus I'm not passionate about it. And so the thingsI tend to do when I'm quote unquote networking, it's really about, hey, I'mreally interested in providing some help or, you know, my opinion or somesuggestions I had to a particular person or company and I will reach outreally on that basis without expecting anything in return and for me, I getthe satisfaction of, it's something I'm interested in. I kind of geek out on it,you know, in some ways and hopefully especially if they find it helpful andthey're like, oh my God, wow, that's game changing for us, or thank you, orwill you just rewrote our positioning statement, like in five minutes kind ofthing, like when that kind of stuff happens, because as a side note, I lovemessaging, positioning, I'm just obsessed with it. I I see taglines andwebsites, I'm like, oh God, you really should rewrite that, you know, I'm sonarrow and deep on that and I just love it so much. So I will offer upsometimes just, hey, I'll rewrite your positioning for you on your site oryour value, proper, your brand idea, whatever. I just love doing that andI'll just do that, you know, for for free someone and if they're just sortof struck by that and I love it a I get a huge dopamine hit of satisfactionfrom doing that, it really is amazing. And then it usually ends up turninginto some kind of relationship are like, wow, we'd love to have you do more,let's talk about that. And obviously as a full time CMO, I mean I don't haveinfinite bandwidth, so I'm not exactly doing it all the time every day, but itis an example, I think of, to me, the best kind of networking is sort of givebefore you get I I know that sounds kind of cheesy and obvious, but Ireally think more than ever for me, I found it to be true, Karma is a realthing. You know, what comes around, goes around and I suppose maybe fromhaving some battle scars in my past where maybe I didn't operate that wayor I to learn that the hard way, Maybe that's why I try to over index on thatapproach these days, right? Where I'm trying to offer some some value andit's usually around something that I'm, I'm genuinely passionate about. So Iwould recommend that. So, as far as tips goes, I would say, when you'rereaching out to someone, whether it's linked in Pavilion, whatever offersomething that's valuable to them, make it about them, not about you. And Ithink this is actually a good adage for sales and marketing. It shocks me thatto this day, so many of the sales, emails, spam emails, market emails thatI get and average that I get in Lincoln is always starts with. I'm this, I'mthat we do this. Our product is this,...

...it's baffling to me that people havenot learned yet that you know what it's not about you, it's not about yourproduct, nobody cares about, you know, it sounds harsh, but it's like, youknow what you need to do to get customers and to drive rapid growth isyou need to talk about them, you've got to talk about, not just them and theirpains or aspirations but in a way that resonates with them in a way that theytalk about or think about their pains. So one of the things in my talks withAlchemists that I do is I talk about you know speaking your customerslanguage right, make it all about them and their pains and specifically evenuse the words that they use perhaps internally to describe how they'rethinking about their pain or their needs right? If you can really kind ofright size to your sort of I. C. P. To your your customers, you know, uniqueneeds in a way that they think about it and make it all about that that is howyou're going to get customer adoption and you're gonna get responses andyou're going to trigger that delight that says whoa okay wow these guysreally really really get it and so it just it blows my mind that every daydon't we all get these emails in our inbox every single day I would reachall the time. That's all about I am this, I am that our product does thisso and so solutions has this technology, you know what I don't care about yourtechnology or you or or whatever okay and now I'm being mean here but for allof this so it's like I know that sounds like such a simple sort of a pivot butit's fundamental and I tell you the companies that start with value andfocus on your delight and the things that trigger that dopamine hit in yourbrain. Those are the ones that are that become the top brands in the world. Youknow Apple is a great example of this. I mean read some of their marketingmessaging, they make it usually all about you like what this can do for youand your aspirations, what this new thing, gadget software, whatever it isenables for you. So it hits you in a visceral way and then they augment thatbrilliantly with the kinds of of lika, bubble imagery and you know, graphicsthat go right to your lizard brain to your subconscious, It bypasses yourrational, preventing cortex centers of your brain and goes right to your toyour limbic system and it is much like smell the same thing, it triggers yourlizard brain sort of animal level want and desire. And again I think you knowunderstanding psychology and even psychiatry, even having a basicunderstanding of those things hugely valuable for marketing and sales.People don't leverage that stuff enough. The combination of talking about thecustomer specific pain aspiration leveraging, imagery specific words interms that trigger the sort of delight or pain solving thing in their brain.That's what makes successful marketing...

...and sales and so I'm totally on atangent here but that's just an example of something that I think is soimportant when you're networking is how can you leverage that thinking and makeit all about delighting or solving that person's problem that you're reachingout to not make it about you. Right, So that's, that's the biggest tip I would,I would give on networking and it definitely is not about the medium. Solinkedin versus slack Pavilion versus right. I mean, it could be any medium,ideally. It's reaching them with a message that's going to resonate. Yeah,absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more and I appreciate you for beinggenerous with your time and your wisdom and sharing that with everyone. Ifanyone that's listening wants to connect with you and add value to youhopefully, especially in the first in the first sentence, not use the word Ium and make it about you. What would be the best place for them to try toconnect with you probably, you know, linkedin is fine. I'm a linkedin, Youcan find me just make sure my last name is Sebastian with T I E N, not A M.That's a common thing. But yeah, you message me on linkedin. I'm also ontwitter at paul. Sebastian, awesome. Thanks paul, appreciate you coming on.And again, everyone definitely make sure to check out. Check paul out on,on linkedin and twitter. Great, thanks so much for having me on, appreciate it.Thanks paul. Thanks for checking out that episode of the Pavilion podcast.You can hit me up on linkedin. My name is Tom Alamo and I am and a over atDong. Let's give a quick shout out one more time to. Our sponsor of thisepisode was brought to you by drift. The new way businesses, by frombusinesses. You can learn more and get the conversation started at drift dotcom. That's it. I'll be back next monday until next week. Get after it, say something.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (174)