The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Ep 77: Getting Commitment Upfront w/ Justin Welsh

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 77: Getting Commitment Upfront w/ Justin Welsh

Part of the "Is This a Good Time?" Series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone and welcome back to therevenue collected podcast. I am your host, Brandon martin, you're listeningto Is this a good time? The show where I asked revenue Collective members somereally basic questions and they have great answers in a short 15 minuteconversation every Tuesday and thursday shows her out. So please hit subscribe.So you don't miss any today. Our guest is Justin well, she is the founder ofJustin Well, Strategic Advisory and we discussed the importance of gettingcommitment up front from a potential buyer. This episode was brought to youby quota path. The commission tracking software built for sales operations,finance and accounting teams. Running commissions and payroll. Has yourunning for the hills quota path is for you quarterback helps organizationstrack and manage commissions and pay their teams accurately and on timeevery time, keep your team motivated and on target. Simplify yourcommissions. That quota path dot com slash revenue dash collective. Giveyour reps the gift of transparency. All right, let's do this Episode 28. Isthis a good time? Alright, super excited to have today's guest Gestion.Well, she is a advisor to many B two B SAs startups. I believe That's that'sthat's what it would be. All I'll be to be SaAS startups for the most part.Yeah, that's right. Mostly early stage. So anywhere between three and 10million is sort of my sweet spot and you are most famous because you werethe revenue collected podcast host. The original revenue collected podcast host.And I know that that was the thing that made you become incredibly linked infamous, right? Not quite uh it was probably 22 years previous, but no, Ithink it's just writing every morning. That's uh that's got me I guess quasipopular, but I'll take it. I'm sure it helped. Okay, good. I mean, I'm only doing thisfor the fame. So anyway, here we are. All meat. No filler. Jump right in withthe questions. Tell us about your career and how you got to where you are.Yeah. I graduated school in 03, went to...

...the Ohio State University and You knowfor the first six years of my career I actually was not very good at what Idid. I got fired from a bunch of companies. I was a sales guy and I gotfired my first three companies. So 2003-2009, pretty much the definitionof what you would call a failure. And in late 2000 and nine I got connectedwith a guy named Cyrus Masumi who was hiring the second sales guy in the 10themployee at a very small start up in new york called Zodiac. And um I gotthat job and I don't know, it was like this, I I kind of describe it as thisintersection, like my own maturity, the energy of the city, the incrediblysmart people there, the product that was representing, they kind of allcrossed and I made a sale my first day and having come from failure, like Igot really hooked next five years, I had a bunch of leadership roles at docdoc. I turned that into my first executive role at 33 a company calledpatient pop six person start up and grew that from its very first dollar inrevenue to about a little over 50 million and recurring in about 4.5years, wow, jeez that's incredible. Zach doc's office was in soho, right,like right in uh one of those big buildings that had a bunch of, Iremember that, I think Foursquare was in that building too, weren't they?That's right. Foursquare was in the building And I think thrillist was inthe building. It was 568 Broadway corner of Prince and Broadway. Yeah,this was the this was definitely the, when Silicon Alley was coined right?Like yes between there and Union Square, you know from Union Square to MadisonSquare Park, right? Like that that whole thing. Very I'm so how did you,how did you come across this job? Like maybe this is part of your your luckstory. I don't want to I don't want to take from from later on in the pot here.No I wouldn't call it luck, I would call it maybe deception. Like I I umyou know I had I had had a terrible career and I did what anyone with aterrible career generally does with...

...their resume. It's it's on steroids toresume on steroids right? It's and I put it on, I put it on Monster and Ithink the recruiter who reached out to me, Karen Hayes very first employee atzodiac and she said we love your resume and I was like great. So um I rememberthat I wanted that job and so I like prepped so hard for that interview.Like I don't recommend people go make up their resumes but I think it doesanyways good Good Good Asteras don't do that but fine. Right. I've also neverinterviewed a bottom performers. So my my assumption is that 50 of people aremaking up their resume to begin with. But I ended up being a good higherthere and I got it through monster through sheer I guess Luckman Good. Ilike now you're talking now it's like because obviously I I definitelybelieve that success comes from a mixture of luck and hard work. Maybe.You know, you obviously just told us a little bit about the luck side. Jumpinto something on the hard work side. I mean going from first dollar in thedoor to 50 million and they are in four years is incredibly hard. Talk aboutthat journey at patient pop because I I've been able to follow that companyfrom afar, you know, being another new york startup, you know that I was in atthe time. But tell us about that journey. Yeah, I think um it wasanother I guess combination of luck good choice, which was like when I wentto get my first executive role, I made it in the space of vertical that I knewvery well health care at an average contract value and velocity that I wasextremely comfortable in. So I like I chose something that I knew how to door had been doing for a team of 20 to 25 at stock doc and I was just gonna bethe VP of sales, doing something the same at patient pop. It's only twopeople in the company when I joined to sales guys and I think on the hard workside where I was really lazy from 23 to 28 29. Zach Duke had this culture andif you've ever read about their culture, you talk to some folks who came fromthat there's so many executives and C suite and and founders that come fromthat company today the culture there...

...was like incredibly intense, superintense. Like He came back to the, came back, I was a field sales guy. If hecame back to the office at 5:30 people are like what are you doing here? Likego back out, like go make sales, you know, if you were leaving at like 8 30back then it's not like this today from my understanding, but back then I waslike, oh half day, it's like you kind of got teased and ribbed if you weregoing to leave before nine, like that's just what it was. I'm not saying that'sright by the way, but that's what the culture was and I like that I'm aworkaholic by nature now. I have been since I joined that company and itinstilled in me this like really incredible work ethic where I mean I'llgo 80 to 100 hours a week and this is not trying to be braggadocious orarrogant or anything like that, it's just the way that I'm wired sincejoining that company. And so I actually thank them for giving me like the motorthat I took to patient pop and I brought a lot of that to the business,which made it a great place for top performers and a challenging place forbottom performers, interesting. And what was from your perspective, whatwere some of the negative things in that culture that you are they well, isthere a way to take some of the negative things out of it when keepingthe sense of urgency and the amount of time, commitment and hustle that peoplehad? Yeah, I think, I think a lot of early stage startups use a combinationof workaholism and fear to drive sales, performance and that is not healthy.Right? And and again, I love it. So I'm not speaking poorly of the companybecause I love the culture. I loved it. Like a lot of people got fired. There'sa lot of like worrying, but I don't know, I, I felt like the cream sort ofrose to the top in that organization. I'm sure there's plenty of people whowould disagree with me, but I liked that because the people that were leftwere like top performers and so I've created this incredible network of 3040 C suite executives who exist today that came from that Zach doc mafia. Iguess it was, it was called, you can look at the revenue collective.Everyone on the home page is from Zhong.

And so, um, I liked that. I would haveliked less fear. I didn't bring a fear culture to patient Popeye brought ahard work culture. So I think the more you can pull fear out of that, thebetter off you are. And I, you know, I don't, I don't think that's a goodthing to do today, but it worked for me. Yeah. It certainly does not seem likethe thing that would work with the next gen z Zoomer is whatever you wanna callthem. But I think you're nailing it with, you can create a culture and withpeople with people that want to be high achievers and work their asses off, butperhaps not to their own detriment. Right? That's right. That's right. Thatis a delicate balance because I also come from you and I were talking, we'rethe same age. I do come from a time where my first job out of college werein restaurants and we were working 100 hour weeks and it was work hard, playhard and so much of that is bullshit. But yet work ethic is something thatyou can learn it put in the right environment. Yeah. And like, well wedefinitely were expected to work hard and work long hours, like I don't know,I liked it, like I liked, I kind of live, slept and breathed it. I was innew york, I was 29 at the time, the top sales guys and gals were all real tightknit, real close because we're all working hard. But we also like drankthe kool Aid, right? Because we thought like this is a huge platform, this is agreat marketplace, We are solving a critical problem in the health caresystem. Like we all drank that kool Aid and I'm not ashamed of that, like yes,I look back at that is one of the greatest experiences of my life. I haveno regrets from that experience. Love that, love that. Well you are somebodywho, if you, if you get you know somebody follows you on linkedin or allthis other stuff, they get tons of content. But give us give us somethinggive us a little tactic. Give us a little flavor of something that youwould recommend people do either on the icy level or on the management levelthat they might be able to implement into their deals like tomorrow. Yeah, Imean the one that I like the most is...

...the upfront contract and I always uselike a come from transactional SAS. So I don't sell enterprise deals, I don'tsell 50 K mid market deals. I'm selling six K eight K, 10-K, 12 K transactionalSAS, that's my whole living. So for me, a lot of what closing comes down to isthe upfront contract and the upfront contract is I use a triple upfrontcontract which is getting commitment in the very beginning of the call. Beforewe even have the demonstration before we even have the call that at the endof this call, I'm going to get one of three things. You're either going totell me no, go pound sand. I'm not interested. And that will cease. Thedeal will cease to exist. It would be great. I get it off my plate. I move tothe next deal. You will tell me, yes, I want to buy this today and I will sellit to you because I'm a salesperson or you tell me I want to buy this. Butthere's somebody else involved in the decision making process. And because ofthat, we're going to schedule a second meeting where that person comes to themeeting and we make a decision. So the closing and transactional SAS neverhappens at the end of the call. It always happens at the beginning of thecall. And if you can get by and where you're like, listen, tell me no, Iwon't bother. You tell me yes, I'll sell it to you or tell me yes. But andwe'll schedule another meeting and you hold them accountable to that at theend of the call, you're going to get more next steps. You're going to getmore yeses and you're going to get more, knows the thing you'll get less of ismaybe I like that. I think I think getting to know is as important as togetting to yes in S and B right. Like exactly. You know those deals canlinger on forever. I felt that at rest for a long time. So hard lesson learnedschool. Any of the companies that are advising for hiring for a key positionthat you want to broadcast out. Yeah. Boy I have a portfolio of eightcompanies. I have N. D. A. S with most of them. So I can't broadcast thepositions. But I am in my my portfolio hiring account executives. So I'mhiring ahead of sales. I'm hiring a head of marketing and I'm hiring a headof revenue operations. So if anyone is interested in those types of roles atgenerally early stage companies usually between three and 10 million andrecurring revenue in the transactional...

...saS space, they can email me at Justinwelch at H E Y dot com. Love it. That's it sounds like there's a bit there. Allright. A few other things who do you look at and love their content whenthey're uh you know when they're spitting on linkedin or podcasts orwhatever. Yeah. I mean there's a whole plethora of people I like on onlinkedin. I love chris walker I think. You know, he's you know, I've gotten toknow each other over the past couple of years, he's a good dude, I'm overrefined labs, I love on twitter, I love Daniel Vassallo, who's kind of like asolo procure a little bit like I am, whose content motivates me, I like JackButcher on twitter, he does a good job, illustrating really complex ideas inreally simple ways. I like josh bronze content on linkedin, I think he's areally good sales tactician. So those are some folks that I follow and thinktheir content adds a lot of value to the ecosystem, but I'm alwaysdiscovering new smaller content creators that I think are reallyinteresting to follow as well. Cool, you, are you a strategery person aswell or no, I don't know what that is, What is that? You gotta, if I thinkwhat you just said about making kind of complex things, visual andunderstanding them. Ben Thompson does this thing, street eatery, uh it's likehigh level strategy and talking about like aggregation theory and all thisother stuff so but anyway I'll pass it to, it's a good one out, I never shotanything out. That's gonna be my shout out, Very cool and any any any kind ofyoung ends up and comers who we should keep an eye out for. Yeah, yeahdefinitely. I think a guy whose content I really like on linkedin is JesseGettler is a former manager of mine at patient pop, I like his content a lot.I think Liz lee who's a sales account executive over at a company calledOptimize Health, I like her content like sarah brazier, she does a good job.And then on twitter there's all kinds of young fellas Alex lull, JenelleLloyd. There's a million people that I follow on twitter as well. So it's funto see what like Younger people who are...

...10 times smarter than I was at that ageare producing. Yeah exactly. It's also scary fine. All right and mostimportantly of all Justin I could care less about everything else we justtalked about. You know that's not true but I am a restaurant fanatic and Ineed to know give me a spot to go eat. It could be where you are in Nashville.It could be in your old house uh You know your your old stomping grounds inL. A. But where uh what's the spot for us to go eat up. Yeah I would say umProbably too. I would say here in Nashville a great place to go is calledMargot. In East Nashville. It's a James beard award winning Chef MargoMcCormick. And I would say that if you're, if you're in L. A. I wouldrecommend um probably Sushi's Oh, which is a little hidden Sushi place in anice strip mall that does like $300. Omakase is once a year, once a yearkind of thing if you're lucky, but took my wife there for a birthday and it wasit was dynamite banging, banging Omakase at sushi. I've been to the onein new york. Not L. A. But for sure, totally, totally agree. Alright, Justinso great to have you on, man. Thank you for passing the torch off to uh to usother podcasters if you will. And excited to just keep keep in touch, man,awesome. I really appreciate you having me on. So, thanks for the time men, Allright, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love theshow, please write a review in the Apple podcasts. Spotify have sent it tosome friends and make sure to smash that subscribe button. Seriously. Weput a lot of effort in. Would love to get the episodes out further than theyare today. Send to a friend reminder. This episode is brought to you byquarter past. Quarter Path is the first radically transparent and to endcompensation solution from sales reps of finance get started for free atquarter past dot com slash revenue dash collective. I had a lot of fun today.Hope you did too. Now, good question numbers. Say something.

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