The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

Ep 237: Fake It Till You Make It is Dead w/ Andrew Hahn


Fake It Till You Make It is Dead w/ Andrew Hahn

Part of the "Is This A Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the pavilion podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Barton. You're listening to is this a good time? The show where I put pavilion members on the hot seat for fifteen minutes. We hear they're incredible stories. Shows are out on Thursday, so hit subscribe and you will not miss hearing from our experts. Today our guest is Andrew Han. He's the chief sales officer and Nin Geo. We talk about how fake it till you make it is dead, and I loved. I love that part of the conversation. This episode was brought to you by contract book. Raise your hand if you love managing contracts. We didn't think so. Contract book created an all in one contract automation platform with data at the heart of everything, to help organizations automated dame tasks that waste your valuable time, energy and resources. VISIT CONTRACT BOOK DOT COM to access contract books complete set of automation tools for free. All right, let's do this episode one fifteen. Is this a good time? All right, everyone, I'm here with Andrew Han. He is the chief sales officer at Ninjio. Uh, Andrew, so great to have you on. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to evangelize awesome man. While I'll meet and no filler here on the pod, wanna jump right into the questions. Tell us a little bit about the current role you're in and then, you know, bring us back in the resume. How you got here. Me and you is something really cool. So I've spent twenty years in tech, uh, fifteen of it, and e learning. We all know what e learning is. It's that boring stuff you're told that you have to take, that you minimize and you merely check a box. Man, I had some real guilt about selling crap. And Ninjio was amazing because they focus on micro learning for cybersecurity treating. So three or four minutes think about Tiktok, instagram, Youtube. This is how we digest content. We get in, we get out. It's animated. It's fun. I was brought in. It was pretty interesting. Um, people asked like how I got here. I was fired. I was fired for... last role. Best month over month, every rep every person hit numbers and I was let go for revenue reasons. I bring that up because it's tough to be a C ro or a CSO in today's environment. Um and I learned a lot from it and I couldn't have been luckier to land in a place with an amazing CEO, great culture, great investors in just a huge outside and honestly, the passion and purposes there and exciting. I love that. I mean this is Um. You know, if you if you've heard Sam Jacob speak, one of the reasons that he began then the revenue collective, now pavilion, is because Cros and CSOS have the shortest lifespan in a company and it is, you know, usually the big salary that gets cut and and so Um. It's not coincidental that we have tons of people in the pavilion and who lose their jobs and then landing somewhere amazing in thereafter you nailed a man. The average tenure from Pavilion for C R O or CSO is about eight and a half months. And when you look at an average sales cycle enterprise deal being for six or eight months, like there needs to be some real change management. Not that this company wasn't great, but coming into a basketball team of the losing season expecting to make the playoffs with the same players is unrealistic. Yeah, it really isn't. And how how can you assess somebody with less than a year worth of time? I mean it's incredible. I think you can. I think there's actually I think there's qualitative and quantitative. The quantitative is clear. The qualitative is how you show up, how you make the existing team better, the processes that you lend. I think there are definitely indicators and I was searching for a relationship. I was searching for a partnership where I knew that I had the time and I would get those wins along the way. Yeah, and how did you start your sales career, because I think you got into isn't an interesting way.

You weren't always Um, you know, holding a bag and and and doing deals. Yeah, it's a similar story, man. I started selling tennis sues at fourteen, UH, and I learned when someone wants a pair of White Nike High Tops, you asked them, Hey, have you ever tried new balanty or tried Rebok? and You bring them out a couple of options. And while it wasn't formable then, I think it was really important. A majored in film got into the film industry and it was a horrible, horrible experience, which was the greatest thing to ever happen to me because out of that, back in two thousand and yes, I'm dating myself, actually about two thousand two, I built and sold my first Tech Company. Learned an absolute ton and, Um, I don't want to say everything happens for a reason, but sometimes you've got to hit a low point to self motivate and try to do something great. That's that's awesome. What what did you want to be when you grew up? You know, coming out of film, you wanted to be a director. For due sir, a great question. I didn't know. My Dad, who unfortunately passed away many years ago, told me that most people that major and something don't you do it for a profession. So he's like, do something you'll enjoy. So I got into a film program but what I learned was time, budgeting, process, working with different people. I mean these are all skills that are so important. Not that biology or communications aren't important, but I do think it was a foundation for me to understand moving parts, not a sales cycle, but of a cycle in its own. Love that. And you've been a part of a couple of exits in your career, Um and any of them that you want to, you know, kind of go into and talk about, talk about me. Of course, that's what I'm here man Um. Yeah, quarterstone on demand was Los Angeles' largest tech I P O. Wow, I should know this. Roughly two thousand, ten or eleven, an amazing opportunity. Most people don't. Haven't heard of the company. If you...

...haven't, I think workday that doesn't advertise, that doesn't advertise as much, or have their their names on golf hats. Full talent management. I was fortunate where I was a team of one. Improved what I was doing and I went from employee one fifty to gosh. Now they've done acquisitions. Are over ten thousand. But I was able to build a team of myself as a first, but then go global. Then do majors, mid market enterprise, strategic. was running marketing. I was writing my own legal agreements like it was amazing to be a step child of an organization with that growth. Now let me say while I was a global vice president, they probably could have gone public without me. But the experience to be the highest profit department at a company that goes public and most notably, I met my wife at cornerstone, the chief product officer. So I left with experience, I left with some great equity and I left with an amazing life. So that that's the trifect it. That's amazing. And and you know, building a team when you I'm sure a lot of people out here listening are thinking, Hey, I'm one or two or I'm the third person on the team. Um, and then to go to you know, managing so many people. It's not often that you keep the same person. What what do you think was key to you know, for you to continue leveling up as the company grew and got bigger? Great Question. What did you do? I tell my team now I've got a range of young professionals and experienced people. Right now we're selling it to SISOS UM. We are never gonna know more about information security than someone who spent twenty years. So I go back to a story when it was uh with EBA. They were my client and every quarter I got a meeting with Meg Whitman and I got face to face. I was terrified, but I quickly realized you have to be the smartest person in the room. You have to be an expert at the problem that you solve and to say that you hung on every ward would be an embellishment. But I...

...was an expert at ethics and appliance Global Learning. So I think that's really the big takeaway. With at cornerstone, I was successful not actually because of my sales process and scalability, it was because I was able to work with over two thousand companies and empower my team to not be the smartest person about that industry, but of the problem that we saw, which is impactful education programs with both quanti quantifiable and qualitative impact. I love that. Well, like we, we always talk about luck and and hard work getting people to where they are. I wonder if there's any stories of kind of strokes, strokes of luck in your career that helped accelerate things? Yeah, I mean hard work is pretty straightforward. Um Failure. I think failure drives a lot of the impetus to hard work. Now I'm coaching again a young team and I'm telling them you should do this, you need to focus on discover you need to do this in the hear me, but I think you need to fail and look at yourself in the mirror, and I told them this all the time. I can give you the tools, I can give you the motivation. You have to listen to your gone calls and say, what can I do better? You have to review your emails and say, you know, I just posted something about emails that are touching base. Touching base emails don't work. You've got to provide value. So look, I joined pavilion revenue collective years ago and I learned. I learned from great people and I had such a high arrogance because of my suggests that I needed to get fired a few times and take ship. I could no longer. You know, they used to say fake it till you make it. It's the opposite in the world now. You need to know your ship and be open to learning and read a book every month. There's so much great knowledge out there, but you have to be thirsty and put in that hard work. Yeah, I actually, funny enough, I joined the CMO and C R Ol School, r o school for the summer because I was like, I'm in this...

...thing and I'm not taking advantage of these free tools around me to get smarter. Meanwhile everyone else is getting smarter and and when was the last time I had structured learning? So I totally hear that. Well, you know, given all the things that you know, you're you're coaching a young team. Share with us one of your sales or marketing tactics that you think is key, Um, you know, for people to get yeah, if anyone takes anything out of this meeting, dramatic pause. Deals are one and lost at discovery, and I always do this equation to dating. I've been married for almost ten years, but think about that first date that you go on to people. You make up your mind, they make up their mind within five minutes. Do we have a future? Is Their potential? So frequently we sell products at people. That is the worst thing to do. What we do do is sell solutions with people, and I say that we're discovery is the heart of how we find out our roadmap to sell. So in Ninja sell cartoons. We're not selling our product. We are selling behavioral impact and Change. So we need to know who you currently with, what do you like, what don't you like? Similar to dating, who did us to date? What are you looking for? Otherwise, we're presenting the same thing through discovery and, more importantly, second level depth and third level is where the real meat and potatoes are. Who are you currently with? We were at this company. Great. What did you like? What didn't you like? Asking about? Hey, a compelling event. You need this in place by the end of July. Why? Because my CEO wants is in place. Wonderful, we can get you up and running in two days. Why is it important to the CEO when you ask second and third level questions? It is the roadmap. If you do nothing right, you have to do discovery. Otherwise you're just hoping that they show up to the next date.

You haven't provide value while you're a trusted advisor, or why you know their specific problems. I love that. That, that's so true, that those second and third questions and where you get to the real meat, because you know, I mean buyers understand that. salespeople are just looking for ends and if you don't ask that second question, they're not volunteering that information and you're showing you care, which is so important. Like if someone says, wow, I need to have something in place by the end of next month or I'll be fired, a rookie will say, okay, cool, and what do you what's your budget like? Show empathy and say you're gonna get fired if you don't have this in place. Yeah, this is a mandate. Great, I want to help you be a hero and give this in place before now. We have a relationship of understanding and trust first. Cool. Yeah, we can get it there by the end of the month. It's such a different pivot. I love that. Love that and give us any positions you're hiring for. I've been really fortunate, even before recent economic hiccups, that I brought in a bunch of highly talented account executives. Now we have an embarrassment of riches where we get over two hundred inbound leads per month. Oh Man, say that again, two hundred inbound. But our real goal and growth is those sorry enterprise deals. So I am bringing in a full str team. So currently hiring for an str manager and then we'll hire four strs. Based on the success which I know we'll have, we'll be able to toggle our marketing spent and our strs to see what yields the highest and I anticipate that team going to twelve and fifteen next year. So, SDR managers and your guy, that sounds like a killer job for any any SDR manager who's looking to uh, get into something that's Um, you know, ground floor, with with the structure around you, to have money and all that other stuff. Ground floor, man, we have clients. In six years we're winning two, point six five deals per day on inbound alone. So the sky really is the limit. Wow and credible. And give...

...some shout outs. Who are some people that that inspire you? And I'm gonna ask you one outside of kind of the sales and marketing, because there's a there's a photo in the in your background, for those that can't see, of Kobe and Lebron. So I know you're a big basketball guy, but start, start with your sales. Sales folks that inspire you and sales folks have inspired me. Um Keenan, I'm sure many of you know. Uh, he wrote a book called gaps selling and I have all my employees read it now. Is it perfect note? Does he have an ego? Of course. Do I have an ego? Absolutely. Why I love this book is unlike medic unlike Sandler, unlike challenger, there aren't rules on this is how you have to do it. Keenan's whole philosophy gap selling is where you are today and what is your future state and how do we close that gap together? So it goes back to discovery and all my team members have said ship. I've been doing this my whole life, but I didn't do this or but I did and do that. His videos on Linkedin are really inspiring. And again, he's a lot but he's an evangelist. I love that. Love that. And then outside of outside of sales, you you know, Um, do you find some inspiration from some of these, uh, these people that you've met throughout your career? You gotta tell that the Kobe story, Kobe story is great. A quick pivot. UH, Little Kobe Tattoo here. I called basketball all the time. You know Michael Jordan, wing Gretz I know Gretzky's hockey. You missed the shots, you don't take. I tell my team separation is in the preparation, which is a steph curry line, where if we understand our client and prospect we have such a better chance of connecting and bonding. But my Kobe story that you and I talked about before, I was fortunate where he used to be a writer for the NBA and I had amazing interviews with Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, brandon, Jennings Um and Kobe, who was larger in life. Like I...

...was terrified to go up to him. Nothing he did, but like there's all stars and then their gods, and I missed a couple opportunities to go up to him. And as a shoe collector, I have a bunch of Kobes and a bunch of Jordan's and I just remember definitively add these black and purple Kobes. For whatever reason. I went back into my house and put on my red, white and blues, which are mainly White, and I went out to lunch with a buddy and I see Kobe on the other side of the restaurant, kind of closed off with security, and I walked towards him and I see his eyes literally do this and he looks up kind of and then he sees my shoes and he just waves me over. He's all hard to get, like no fake Kobe Fan would have these and and I just said Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt her lunch, do you mind if if I can get a signature on my shoes? And he says no, and I'm just terrified he goes. I want you to go and get a real pin. Go get a sharpie and I'll be here. And he sees a trepidy a and he looks, he goes, I will be here, get a Sharpie, most right into a bank, got a sharpie. He signed to Andrew, I don't know, best wishes, Kobe, and he spoke to me for ten, fifteen minutes. Um just an amazing, amazing, love it, man. It just when you know, to meet a legend like that, to be in their presence and then then to have them be that kind and and it just just just incredible. Humanize himself. Absolutely yeah, awesome. Well, look, man, I'll leave you on this. I am a restaurant guy. I love here in restaurant recommendations. You gotta tell me where, where? Where should we go eat? What's a what's a sleeper? People don't know about OK in l a Taco plus is like cheap as hell and it's phenomenal and healthy. But my best meal that I've had recently, uh, was a Sushi and almost an Alakas a place called FUCCI U C H I and Dallas. I was there for a board meeting last week and what made it even better is a board member has his...

...own table. Oh so um, did all the ordering and I think the experience with the food it just made it amazing. And the alcohol didn't hurt either. After a week or prep in a in a needing a reason to exhale, it's a good fit. I'm sure people land you know, don't think landlocked Dallas is the best place for Sushi, but I can confirm I have been to this restaurant. I had some mutual friends that, uh, that work down there and it is. It is an absolute stunner in Dallas. Gotta go check it out. Andrew, dude, so great to have you on. Thank you so much for telling your stories, man, and looking forward to to keep it in touch and seeing how you grow out this enterprise team. Absolutely man, it's been a pleasure on my side. Anyone that needs an str manager, reach out to me, and anyone that's a professional that wants a real relationship, please reach out to me on Linkedin and I can always make time. All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the show, rate and review in the apple podcast for spotify APP, send it to friends and make sure to smash that subscribe button. This episode was brought to you by contract book. Contract Books Digital Contract Management Platform allows scaling businesses to automate and manage the entire contract life cycle in one flow. GET STARTED FOR FREE AT CONTRACT BOOK DOT Com. I'd tell much fun today. I really hope you did too. Now get out and crush your numbers.

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