The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

Ep 203: Tying Marketing to Real Metrics w/ Patrick Ward

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 203: Tying Marketing to Real Metrics w/ Patrick Ward

Part of the "Is This A Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the pavilion podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Martin, and you are listening to is this a good time? The sure where I put avilion members on the Hanti for fifteen minutes. We hear their incredible stories. Shows are out every Thursday, so hit subscribe and he will not miss hearing from our experts. Today our expert is Patrick Ward. He's a vpm marketing at root strap. When we talk about tying marketing to real metrics, things like pipeline and sales, this oneth sponsor is Sen Noso, the leading corporate gifting platform that inspires human connections for revenue driven teams to stand out at strategic points through the customer journey. All right, let's do this episode ninety nine. Is this a good time? All right, everybody is so excited to have Patrick Ward with us today. He is the VP of marketing at Root Strap, based out of Los Angeles, originally from Australia. Patrick, thank you for coming on the program thanks for having me, Brandon. Yeah, excellent man. Well, look, I'll meet no filler. We want to jump right in. Tell us, tell us about root drap I mean I wanted to go back, though, you know as well, and tell us a little bit how you how you came to the states and started working here. Love, love the experience that you have and and and then, of course, what we're doing at root trap today. Yes, so I started in the advertising agency. Well, back in Sydney, Australia, where I was born and rice. Spent all my schooling there, went to college there, came over to the United States a few separate times, one for a George Washington University exchange and then the other time I was working at m ANDC Sarchi really loved the culture, really loved the vibe of the United States, really fit with my ambition right. And so at started two thousand and sixteen, I moved here permanently. And then, when I moved, started in a few different industries, a bit of finance again, a bit of advertising, but finally found my way to technology and specifically roots trap. Root straps are custom software development agency, but, as everyone says,...

...there are a thousand software development agencies. What makes yours any different? So the thing I tell everyone is we are the tech team behind masterclass. So if you decided that you were going to learn a recipe from Gordon Ramsey during the pandemic. That's using our technology well and what a what a time to be there. When did you start? A root shrap. I started end of two thousand and nineteen. I was the first marketer that was brought on board and since then I've grown the team. It was ten as of this morning, but as of a couple of hours ago it is now eleven. I've just brought on a new director of paid search. Wow, very cool. That's a two members of the whole team, or or your teamers. That's just my team. The whole team is two hundred and sixty spread across multiple continents. We've got a large base of developers in Argentina, Columbia Uruguay, but I've got team members ranging from India all the way through to Portugal. That's great, man. And what was the job that brought you? Like, did you just show up and it's they to say I get a job it? was there something that brought you this direction in the first place? Well, so this is one of those very lucky scenarios. So at the time in two thousand and fifteen, I step on the luck question. Maybe maybe we jumped. I will look with it. We could, we could blend them in here, but if a band, I'm going to brand, because it is a matter of luck. I had finished my degree at the end of two thousand and fifteen and I was sort of looking, you know, could I come back to the states? And you know American immigration, as any country immigration, is difficult, it's challenging, so I didn't really have many options. I was thinking, okay, what am I going to do here? Do I just try and get a job with my former agency and hope they'll sponsor me? But I really did want to come back to America anyway. A friend just told me about a little thing called the diversity vsa lottery, otherwise known as the Green Card Lottery. Put my hat in the ring. was told it's a anywhere from a one to a five percent chance of winning. You I'd have to apply multiple years. The...

...earliest I'd heard was someone winning after four years, and it just so happened the first year that I entered, I one. So, needless to say, got the Green Card and that was what was going to move me over here. So my friends and family told me I was crazy. I was leaving behind not only all of them, but even an existing job for basically unemployment. Yeah, I trust with my skills and sure enough landed, you know, that first job that gave me some American work experience in a financial firm and then, through no bitter networking bit of good skills and development, wound my way into leading an entire marketing team. So it it certainly has its elements of luck, but it certainly made the most of that opportunity. And where? And did YOU WORK FOR SACHI AND IN LA? Yeah, it was their La Branch. So it was started by two members of the original London team, husband and wife, and they were tasked by the corporation to open the La Office. Yeah, because I was. I'm curious that, you know, I find that a I find it interesting to talk about when people moved to the seats, what city they choose, a landed. What I mean what what drew you, Tela? I think you know as much as I was. You know, Star in my eyes. They're looking forward to the hope and optimism of America. I still have a pragmatic side to me and I figured that because I had worked at him and see Sachi. In fact, it was a referral from one of my former colleagues there that it wound me up into the financial firm that I ended up working for a couple of years based in downtown La. So I was knowing that, hey, if I'm going to take this risk, if I'm going to take this gamble, at least let me stack the deck in my favor. Let's make sure that I have enough, you know, corporate and workforce connections that can help me land a job when I arrive here and then from there, you know, just loved it ever since. Awesome and and and look, you have a ton of obviously ton of marketing experience. Had Been in a...

...couple of really interesting roles. You know Whoa what led you know what were some of the early skills that you learned that led to you getting head of marketing direct your marketing level positions, you know, pretty quickly, right like it seems like you made the jump into marketing in the kind of leveled up real quick and I think people listening to is probably want to do go on that same journey. Maybe advice to them or like, what are certain things? If you said, hey, that was a really pivotal thing that I went and did or learn, I think the critical thing for most marketers is to not get too tied to their function. You still need to learn a function. You know, I myself started with Seo copyriding of all things, and you know, I mastered that function. I started to get a lot of, you know, good clients, good experience and good results. But unless you're tying your activities to how it's shaping a customer, how it's driving revenue, how it's really contributing to growth, not just as a nice to have but a necessity, that's when you really up your game as a marketer, and I think that was something that always gravitated me towards the world of be to be, specifically be to be technology, because I think while be Toc you can run a lot of the quintessential fund campaigns at if we'll call them that. They tend to be more around brand building, they tend to be more around awareness and they're not as too monstrably tied to revenue. When you tie yourself to revenue, suddenly you start having business conversations, and this is something that most marketers, I find. You know, it's the one function that everyone has an opinion on. US Right. People don't have an opinion on finance. People don't have a opinion on engineering because it seems complicated, but for whatever reason, marketing is one of those functions that everyone has an opinion on. So if you can really grasp the reins and show, Hey, what I'm doing is not only, you know, Nice. We're not just party people, we're not just people who make things look Nice,...

...we're actually an essential function, especially when it's even harder to reach prospects and even harder to get new clients these days, then that's where you really start having different conversations with your c sweet. When you have those types of conversations, you really quickly become indispensable to them, and that's really the the secret of my success in that as long as you understand who are the right people in your organization, how you can influence them and how you can speak their language, you'll be rewarded with rapidly moving up the corporate ladder very quickly. Yeah, interesting, interesting. I like that and like what is an example of today, how you tie your marketing activities to sales, right to numbers, I mean agency models a little. It's a little bit different. Right. There's probably a lot of brand building that you do to catch bigger fish, but I'd be interested to know from you how you tie that back today. Yeah, so I think the thing here is just a fairly simple change in measurement structure. Right. So, obviously we've heard ad nauseum. There are certain people like Chris Walker who talk a lot about this at why the MQL is dead, and that is very true. So when you measure your marketing pipeline in terms of sales qualified pipeline, you are inevitably aligning your marketing team to what sales wants. And the way that I like to conceptualize it is a very simple philosophy. My job as head of marketing is to create a function that takes a prospect from being unaware of root strap to being aware of root strap, and sales job is take them from awareness to close. That is the delineation of responsibilities. But by doing that we're measuring ourselves by the same metric. So we're constantly looking at not only the different channels that we're providing to our sales team but, more importantly, which of those channels gets, you know, quicker time to close. You know where's the sales...

...velocity in certain different channels and by not focusing on who source the deal, or did marketing source it or sales source to you're just focusing on where can we get the quickest uplift in revenue. You know, there's a there's an old adage that, you know, more sales solves all problems, and this is very much true to our philosophy right is that I don't particularly care if a number of our business came through refer rules or it came and that our sales team is spending more time on those deals versus ones that we acquired for them via paid search, organic social. You know I'm still going to do those activities, but in the end of the day it still is about how can we get the quickest ramp up to growth so that we can get that money to reinvest in more of our marketing efforts. You still want to have a diversified enough pipeline. You don't want to be too concentrated by just one source of acquiring customers, but at the same time you don't want to have these little fights between the departments of like who got the deal who didn't, and this is it flows all the way through to compensation like dslte. Way that we compensate everyone on our sales and marketing team is purely on a binary metric. Did we attain the revenue goal or not? As many companies I've worked in who have tried to create all sorts of complicated compensation structures, I can genuinely say that this way of formulating compensation creates the most seamless team dynamic because it's easy to measure, it's easy to get everyone working in the right direction and doing the right things. Love that, man, love that. Well, look good. Segue into into a little bit of the tactical side of things. I love how you're making sure to align the team the right way. What are some of the tactics that you feel like you're using that that are successful today, that people should kind of try, try or put it to their own playbill. So I think one of the biggest tactics that...

...is, aside from the usual ones, we still do all the bread and butter. That's paid acquisition through at words, that's having a strong SEO presence and that's also making sure that our ratings on review sites, such as the usual suspects, the Geto's, the cap terrors, the clutch dock cos, is strong those are all table steaks. You can't, you know, run a successful business, particularly in the bet to be space, without them. But one of the most interesting channels that I've discovered in recent years, and it's one that goes against conventional wisdom, and that is the world of side hustles. Now, I know what you're thinking. Most people when they think of a side hustle, they think of an etsy shop, they think of an Amazon drop shipping store. Now I challenge every person actually is sitting on the best possible side hustle that they could ever create, and it's the one based on their own experience and turning that into a side hustle via a very simple website that articulates knowledge that they have acquired over their career that specifically pertains to that knowledge base they have, actually has a very nice intersection with what they already do on their day to day job. So the practical example here is at the start of the pandemic, I created my side hustle of nanoglobals. It was about all the things that roots traps about. It was about outsourcing software development, it was about remote work, it was about the Best Practices for organizing distributed teams and I just put a lot of content out there. Now, two years later, we earn Fiftyzero monthly visitors from that side. Well, and more importantly, I have gained over a million dollars of sales pipeline for roots trap through this venture. And while it seems counterintuitive, people might say, oh well, if you're spending effort on a side hustle,...

...that means you're not spending effort on your day job. Nothing could be further from the truth, because the fact of the matter is, no matter how strong your brand is, when you put out a corporate message, people view it in a certain way, and so if you can find alternative mechanisms, alternative channels that reach out to a person in a different way that might reach a completely different audience, suddenly you're able to gain new prospects that you never could have imagined to receive before. And this is a philosophy I don't just apply for myself, but I've literally encourage all the way through my team and it's driving pretty significant business for us now. Love it, man. That's it's a good a lot of people have come on the part and said, hey, like start a podcast. This like meaning, but meaning kind of under the guise of the company. Right, like your company should have a podcast and make your prospects on it. But I like the little twister of you maybe even encouraging your eat, your individual team members, to have some part of you know, whether it's a youtube channel, Tick Tock Channel, whatever, like a side hustle in that way, where where they're just talking about themselves and obviously business is going to come up because if you have the right people they care about what they do and so forth. I like that. That's a good twist. I will we got we got the speed round the questions here. So look, you know, what's any key positions that you're hiring for? I know you just went from ten to eleven, but anybody else that you need on the team? So at the moment, what? Now that I've hired my director paid search, my next attention is going towards a video producer, because it's one of those areas that, being from Seo and a written background myself, I've never particularly mastered personally, although I do appear on a lot of video. So that's what I'm looking for next. To really up my game, you need a d rocks, as we say in my side of the industry like that. If you even know that is all right. I give some shout outs. Anybody who you like? You mentioned Chris Walker. Love Chris. Of had them on the part.

You know, anybody that you you think is putting some really good content out there that folks should pay attention to? Yeah, I think when you're looking for content, obviously Chris is definitely table stakes when it comes to any form of marketing right because he's really shifting the dynamic. Aside from that, I really liked Dave Gohart, who was at drift but now has pivoted to his own thing. He also just it's creating a really nice space for to be where we're bringing the human back into marketing. I really didn't like where we were going as an industry about five five or so years ago, where it seemed like we were relentlessly going towards measurement at all costs and it created a lot of this fairly stale marketing. So it's nice to see this sort of humanizing aspect that, quite honestly, has always existed in B Toc, but bringing it into the into the business side as well, because at the end of the day, I mean humans still buy from you? It's not. It's not bots yet. The buying from you. Yeah, cool, man, that's great. Well, look, I am a restaurant fanatic, so I always end with the same, same question, which is where we where? You either could be la could be Sydney. Be Interesting if you have some spots in Sydney. But where should we go have a meal? That's a really good question. There's a really Nice Taiwanese place I'm actually in the process and moving that close to where I'm about to move, called little fatty. It's just really solid, authentic cuisine. Think beef noodle soups and that sort of stuff. It's amazing, awesome and well, we'll get there when I get out to La Patrick. So great to have you on, man, you got a wealth of knowledge. I love it and obviously people should be checking out that other channel that you do, the Youtube Channel, but you know, really love hearing your stories and how you got here to the states and how our how you can ask me. Really appreciate it, Brandon. All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the PODCAST, right in review in the apple podcast spot. If I have sent it to friends and make sure to smash that sort of subscribe. But this episode we brought you by Sindows. So they are...

...redefining the way that businesses inspire human connections by offering an intelligent gifting experience with global fulfillment infrastructure, highly curated premium vendors, deep analytics and personalization of S. again, I had so much fun today. I hope you did. Do now get out and cression numbers.

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