The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 9: Leading leaders feat Heather Foidart


Ep 9: Leading leaders feat Heather Foidart

To ttawhat has goine on everybody.Welcome to the revenue collective podcast. I am your launchhost JustinWelsh member of the Los Angeles chapter, O revenue, collective and inside ofthese episodes, we're going to feature ideas and conversations that areinspired by ongoing discussions within the revenue collective community acrossthe globe, and I think one of the really interesting topics we've beentalking and debating inside of the RC slackroom is how to best lead. Otherleaders managing and leading frontline employees is one thing, but there areextra challenges in different approaches to effectively managingother managers, directors and VPS, and we're going to cover that in a bit moreinside of this episode with our guests, Heather foidark, ut to time vp of salesand customer success leader, most recently at Schmu before we dive inwith Heather a few quick notes, if you're out there listening and you wantto join revenue, collective visit revenue, collective dotcom and Clickpline out. I also want to think our amazing potcast sponsor for Juneoutreach. The number one, a sales engagement platform, outreachrevolutionizes customer engagement by moving away from silent conversationsto a streamline in customer centric journey leveraging the next generationof artificial intelligence. The platform allows sales raps to deliverconsistent, relevant and responsible communication for each prospect. Everytime enabling personalization tat scale that was previously unthinkable. I ampumped to jump in with Heather foidark. So let's get the episode Startin our guest today is heather. FOEDARTheather has five years of the executive leadership experience she's a two time,vp of sales and customer success, and she recently joined replays as asalescoach. Replays is an Ondemand sales coaching service for inside salesteams, inprior to that she was vp of sals and service at an Ed Tech Start Up,sx strategist, at Oracle, in leading the sales and customer successfunctions at shareworks through their acquisition by Morgan Stanley, Heatherwelcomed tot the show we were really happy to have. You often be here thinkso much destin. You are welcome. So I just talked a bit about your recentbackground, but I always like to start out by learning a bit more about howour guests got into the leadership world. Can you give us the HeatherCareer Story Yeah? I I'd love to and I'm originally from western Canada, andI was like to you don get that out of the way at the beginning. In case youcan hear a slight bit of an accent in my voice, and so you after I graduatedhigh school. Like most people, you know I needed a job, and so I was a surferfor all of eight weeks. Maybe the shortest creer stant that I had when Ihad a customer come in and she asked me if I'd consider you know joining herfirm, potentially as an office administrator. U She had an immediateneed asked me to come by at the end of my shift, and that was that you know nointerview. I went over there. She gave me a tour of the office and we sart ofhit it off right away. shes somebody I really repected, and so the businesswas acqired about a year in after I started by a company called CanadianWestern Bank, and I eventually ended up staying on with the Bank for eightyears. Really I leaned into you know every growth opportunity ran towardssolving any problem. I could I went to college at night. You know eating bagsof chips for dinner. It was definitely not a glammor ach time, but Ieventually worked my way from you know: Operations to account management, Bot,my way into leadership, really loved that and then eventually just found mycalling from a sales point of view I loved working with our customers. Iloved felving problems, and that was where I had my first int as a directorof fails. That is a really really interesting path, and you know youdon't often hear that type of story right where someone starts as an officeadministrator and works their way up to director of sales and then becomes VPof sales. You mentioned leaning in and I think, being a problem. solver isreally important, but what other than...

...than sort of leaning in and solvingproblems? Do you think it was about you y that allowed you to navigate fromsort of this office administrator path all the way through to the leadershipteam? I think it was really just stepping inI I've, no strow, my curabit of a pattern that there's kind of two typesof people. You know a lot of people want to work on those projects thatmight be you know glamorous. They have a lot of recognition and t en most theother kind who are really just there to do. You know excellent work. They havea growth mind, sent they're there to learn, and I really think that thoseare the skills that I've tapped into you know. I was always willing to goand solve some of those problems at work on those projects that you knowmaybe weren't sexy. Maybe they didn't have a lot of Um. I would sat likerecognition, and I think that's really was- was the key there m. You knowthroughout that kind of eight year cind I was just referencing. I did a littlebit compliance. I reviewed contracts. They did some audit work, nothingterribly exciting, but there were problems that were important to thebusiness and I was always there. You know willing to put my hand up. That'sawesome. I love that. I I think, having that that sort of mindset is so crucial,especially in some of the earlier stage companies that I see, leaders at youknow when we get in even regardless of what your title is. There are so manydifferent opportunities to wear different hats that I love when I seepeople take advantage of that. So I know that when we were chatting in therevenue collective slack channel, there was a lot of conversation aroundtoday's topic, which is really leading leaders and before we dive into thattopic and learn more about it. I'd love to understand why this in particular issomething that you're really passionate about yeah, absolutely o The factofconcept of you know: building a a following or a follower leadership. Ithink some people talk about it as as transformational leadership and it's atopic that I'm really passionate about, because I think th t you know there'sbeen you know thousands of books written on the topic and I mean there'sno secret thougt. Really. I think that there's a lot of actionable things thatanybody can do to build their following, and you know to be perceived by thepeople that they're, leading and managing, as you know, being confidentand someone admirable and somebody worthy of you know encouraging andinpiring others to follow, and so it's a topic. You know I spent a lot of timekind of thinking and you know writing about and talking with other leadersabout you know, I believe it trensend sales as well into you know any form ofof Feirship, but I as loved working with kind of that next generation ofleaders and working through you know some actionable habits that they canmaster. You know, I think anybody cas you know the ability, if they put theeffort into it, you know to build the following as a leader. That's awesome, and I think you knowmost of us who have been VPS or even in the ceaspeet level or we've. Let MeKnow: We've led people on Leadership Rolls What is follower leadership anand you mention actionable habits. So maybe you could tell us a little bit inyour mind what follower leadership is and then it W. I would love tounderstand some of those actionable habits that you can. You know, developto be perceived as competent or admirable, and and really encouragethose others to follow you yeah. Absolutely. For me, I think it's simpleto a follower leader is somebody that others perceive of being competent intheir roles. Som An admirable, so somebody with integrity know therespect and somethong that really encourages others to follow along, andso I think what really sets these leaders apart is that they billd theirfollowership by inspiring others and by really making the people part of it,the heart of their business. I think everybody's eventiually works with aleader or observed the leader where you know they want to be a great leader,but they hate the people, part of it right, like everything about leadership,icton peoples, side Su. I think you know, there's really four things foractionable strategies. I think that any anyone can master to build. You knowthe way that you k ow the people that you're trying to infire relate to you,and so you know, let's have into what those look like with the first one, andso the first one is really building credibility by being rlentlesslyreliable. You know, are you somebody who makes commitments and followsthrough with it or are you somebody that you know nunconsciously makes youknow, offers of you know your time or...

...your resources, but you fail to followthrough with action to an example of that might be. You know, I know, justedloves drinking, you know IPAs. I tells me he's coming over to stopsale whereI'm located, and you know I say: Oh, like there's a Vasporaryin town likeyou, have to make sure you go there and check out like these three IPAs butyeah. I got to go check to menyu and get back to you on that, and so youknow being relentlessly reliable and mebuildincredibility in your eyes wouldbe me remembering to follow up and send you that recommendation to send youthat list of IAPPS and doing so in a timely manner as well is really whatthat signals to people is when you fail to follow through on those really lowsake commitments. It's chipping away your credibility, even though They'eseem inconsequentials the restaurant recommendation. You know that kind ofthing, it's critically important, that they know that they can rely on you inthe moments that matter. Heather D. do you mind if I ask about reliabilityhere because to me that one just stands out right away and one thing one thingI often wonder, and I struggle with it myself as a leader, is how you strike abalance. So when folks, who ar your leading, are coming to you on on ourconsistent basis, nd in your saying I'll, do this or I'll do that? How doyou make sure that you don't bite off more that you can chew so that thereliability doesn't go out the window? I love that you ask that question'cause. I think it's so important. You know it it's being more conscious withthe offers that you're making you know. So if, if you know, if you're offeringto make time it kind of leads into the the second Um Bullet Pointe, I kindowanted to talk about a little bit here. Ryor the team that you're leading it'sreally being fully available and present in the moment that Youescheduled and that's really it sounds easy on the surface, but I think it'sactually really difficult to do and it kind of builds on that concept ofreliability. You know, I think, for a lot of new leader, it', truallyunderstanding. You know what is the difference between being available andbeing accessible? You know, so. Accessibility to me means the Y canbreach me. You know send me attacks. You know shoot me to shoot me a message.You know I can get Ba. You know that this kint approval thene for you, butthat doesn't mean that you have my full time and attention. I'm not committingthat time to you, I'm just saying that I'm asfesfable, if you need me I'll,get it done but being available. It means that you have Nero destractions,that you're going to be fully present in that moment and what becomes reallydifficult about Thadn and kindit to the point of her question is that itrequires you to run through your day with flawless execution, Ein late, also,chips, theway incredibility, and so you know what I'm in a oned one with one ofmy employees, for example, I've got thirty minute scheduled. It means youknow, being aware of the time. You know set an alarm if you have to, but atthat twenty five minute mark it saying. Okay, we only have a couple of minutesbless. Is there anything else that you need for me and if there is, maybe youhave to schedule another time to go into that point because most likely, asall leaders are generally our back to backthroughout your day, so that youknow Fallos, execution and time management is really critical to tothis point of really being able to be fully present in the moment you'decommitted to I I I agree like I'm a guy who's on time, like I'm M, I'm a timeperson. What do you do when you've got that flawless execution mindset? You'vegot that back to back calendar, your leader and someone who you're leadingisn't honoring your time, they're, not honoring, your availability. How do youcorrect that or how do you coach to that? Is it? Is it just stern? Is itjust a dressing it? How do you do that in in your work h? I think it's notunlike M, you know when we're running a sale cycle with you know an importantprospect. You know we get into that meeting. You know we confirm kind ofthe time at the onset at the beginning and we sick to it. I think it cand beas simple as that. Right, like you know, if you agree to you, know an agendosort of at the onset or you know the things that we absolutely need to coverin our time. Together, it's really just being forthcoming about thecommunication around it. So you know we have thirty minutes. Today. We have toget through these two things you know,...

...and if we have any time left you knowwe can add anything else. So it's really just managing expectations atthe on that got it so building credibility by being relentlesslyreliable, being fully available and present in the moments Hou WWescheduled. I I think you mentioned there were four things: wh t what arenumber threes number three and four for you Y. Ah, I think number three for meis not being above anything you ask others to do, and you know what I meanabout that: it's not really about doing their job for them. It's about neverreally asking something of someone. If you wouldn't, do it yourself, a goodexample of that is you know you give one of your employees an poaching, andyou say you know you Gott to make sure that you're paying attention to thedetails, but then you miss to detail yourself. I it's really just having aheightened awareness of that. You know. Another example of of you know how thisTis might look at a sales organization M. I know for US Pash flow with tight.You know we had to freeze a lot of our our budgets. Just you know as rel tothe the recent crisis, and so we didn't have any cash to be running any sfifthor competition. So one of the things that we did is we did a call lit, andthe IFF for the winner was that the person who booked the most number ofqualified meetings would get their leaders. Time O make some calls onthere behalf to their book of business, and it was just kind of fun, but itreally was kind of living thrug to this value yeah, you know not being aboveanything, elsk other to do you now. I think that's that's just a simpleexample of that N th 's. That's I I gotta ask because Thi's just really itreally peeked my interest, because I don't know H, have you caught the thisseries that everyone's watching called the last the last dance on e SPN withMichael Jordan? No, I haven't, but I've heard a ton about it. Well, he he sayssomething during the documentary where he says you know I never ask myteammates to do something that they know that I wouldn't do and so thatthat stood out as as a really a really critical piece of leadership, but, onthe other hand, he's an asshole he's a complete tire he's a complete tyrant,and I think what we're seeing is a lot of leaders. Look at this and watch this.I'm seeing it on twitter talk about how great this leadership style is. How doyou think of tyrants? How do you think of the folks that run their teamsbecause they do it fear based? Is that something that you think can hold up inthe business world? The way it does? You know in this special on thebasketball court or is that is that the complete opposite of what you thinkfollower leadership is for me. That's the complete oen.Personally I know certainly I have experienced, unfortunately, my fairshare of pyrentlyeand thing. I definitely Tri to evaluate whetever,I'm looking at you know, enobe that I'm goingto you know participate on. Butfor me it's sort of opposite of you know my personal leadership Eso. If youwill yeah that pure based culture, I think the problem with having a Fewrbace culture to me personally, is it discourages people to take any brisksor to make fold decisions and, if you're not willing to make any risk, II can't see how you can have innovation, and so I think, that's kind offundamentally t the challenge with any type of of fear based culture. I'm anagreement with you, I'm watching this special and I'm I'm really enjoying itand it's it's really fun and it's great to see a great player. But you knowwatching people talk about it online about how that's how you have to thinkand how that's the minds that you have to have, and Oh that's how I I managepeople to me is the opposite of leadership. So it's it's interesting tosee how different folks in the technology ore, the startup worwillperceive leadership in different ways. I love the follower leadershipmentality that you're talking about. That's how I think about leading myteams. So you know credibility by being relentless, real, reliable beingavailable and present. You know doing things. You know not asking anyone todo something that you wouldn't do, and you mentioned there was a a for thing:What what dis that last piece of follower? Leadership Yeah! So for me Ithink it's about holding others accountable privately, but reallycelebrating successes publicly, and so you know it's the cartner rule never toPicke credit, for you know other people's ideas, but it is usuallyimportant that you, you know, share and celebrate successes and learn and growfrom failures and that's kind of what...

...we're just talking about right, nothaving that, like fear based culture, but it's also being somebody as aleader who saved others so never allowing someone to fail publicly likethat is the worst feeling in the world. I had this happened to me one time itwas absolutely frutal. I was a pretty new employee and I was doing a reallybig presentation. It was a really big deal and I had a training coming up. SoI thought. Oh, you know what I'll do a dry run bo. This presentation that Ineed to do in the context of this training, and so I stood up in front ofa group of peers. You know again, I was brand new, but it was really importantto me that you know I did the bold thing and I kind of perfected my mypetch right away and I had people absolutely just kind of rib it apart ina non ind, a productive way and my manager was in the room and I feel likeyou know that was a definitely a chip on his credibility of my eyes. Theyjust kind of allowing me to you know what felt like a public failure really her right. It was something thatthat kindof starved me. You know I knew that he wasn't going to be somebody whowould who whald save me kind of publicly you Kno W. You need to be ableto save your your employees from embarrassment when you see it happening,you n W, and this is the behavior. That's cound- have set the exampleculturally, that it's a saife environment. You know to innovate likewe just talks about, and you know make the cisive action without fear and youknow, take old risks and you know do that dry run, even though you might notbe a hundred percent ready anyway. No, that's that's that's great and youK Ow, you mentione. You mentioned something really interesting. You saidholding people accountable privately now. I I always believe that you, youshould do that as well. One thing that I've struggled with is when I go tohold people accountable privately ninety percent of the time. It goesreally well, ten percent of the time you know, I'm I'm managing or coachingsomeone who doesn't want that tough feedback. Who is you know, insulted byby that tough feedback? Who doesn't take that feedback really? Well? Whatdo you do in a scenario like that? Can people be coached out of that who arelooking to further their leadershipter yeah? I I sure hope so I think you knowfor me. I think one of the most important attributes you know in in anyrole, particularly in a sales or Chel leadership. Wol, you know, is really tohave that growth mindset and to so, I think, as leaders, you know really kindof setting the tone at the top of having a culture. A feeback is iscritically important and I think you know sometimes you might have thoseindividuals on your team who might not exhibit that openness to being M toreceive and hear hard feedback an, and I think that's always going to be achallenge. The strategis that I often use in those situations is reallyfocusing on the bigger picture of you know what it is that we're trying toaccomplish like bringing it back to the goals, and you know how we're going toget there together and having kind of that joint mutual actionable plan. Youknow to to achieve that outcome that we're looking for. I love that. I lovethat allright heather. We are nearing the end of our time together here,which means we will jump into one more segment that we do and it's called ourquick fire. Five, it's pretty simple t, just five questions where we get top ofmind real answers from executive leaders like yourself, you're, RiaeIrock, I Lavett yeah. I thought all right a that awesome do it. So what isa book that has had a major impact on your life? Yeah, I'm an avigrator. I love reading one ofthe books that I love the most is a book called the monk who sold hisFerrari Yousee. You have to pick it. U, I know. Definitely that title standsout and you know surethat. I really love about this book as you can read itseveral times and always take something new away from it. I think I've read itat least a dozen times. You know one of the quotes at I love about it. That'sreally standing out to me right now is he says everything is created twicefirst in the mind and then in reality, and I absuly left that close cool. Haveyou ver read the alchemist. I have. I love the alchemist. I do as well that'sa book that I can read and pick up something Um unique each time that Iread it. So I it's something that I just read again. For the other day thatI absolutely love M, an you have to check out this buck Y E I'll definitelycheck it out the title caught my eyes.

So t t that's really cool, so you'regetting amped up for the workday. It's it's. You know Monday morning andyou're you're getting excited for the upcoming work, wee wh t. What are youlistening to to for me? I'm stuck in the nineties, I'm a ninety Girlterinthro and I love ninety's hip hop. I Love Ninety alk music, but if I reallyneed to get you know, amped up, it's generally have hop and it's in myheadphone fo a little guy can't hear it 'cause it's beenevitably full ofcurseword. It's usually something like a trive called quest or dray or Deminem,or no anything that I didn't. After speaking to you fortwenty minutes, I didn't have you pegged as a Nazgirl th T, that's pretty!That's pretty cool, I'M HIPHOP! Guy Myself! I'm a nipsy Hustle Fan thes theEntreo rap, so I I listen. I listen to him. E gets me excited to to go buildbusinesses so awesome. I love to see the hip hop stuff. What what has beenyour? What has been your favorite experience to date so far being amember of the reve nue collective yeah ih've an a member for about a year ornow, and I would have to say it's actually just recently. Within the pastcouple of weeks I was invited to a finalist presentation and I've glite aflack message. Just on h on the vench group asking if you know there was anyvolunteer to sit through a dry run Li me, I'm a big. You know believer andkind of the practice ta perfect, but I would absolutely overwhelmed by justthe responses offering to help me out or those who couldn't help. They sentme a ton of words of encouragement. I got all kinds of resources, Honestlijust truly moved me. I felt so fortunate that I had this kind of tribein my corner. It just made me feel like I could. You know accomplish anythingyou know, with the support of the SGRIP behind me, awesome what something thatHeather foydark has a superpower in, but I have a super power and you knowthis. One is a trucky one to answer. I think Ho. There is a work in progressand still figuring that out. I thinkno one of my superpowers. I would say,probably being a connector, you know I've been told lots of time. You knowit's just somebody to have in a network I'm good at building bridges. I usuallyaf that person who can you know put together. Oh Hey, you're, looking tolearn this. You should read this bok or hey you're, looking to grow in thistalent. You should meet this person generally on somebody who connects kindof ideas together. That's great! I'M A colnector myself! So M. I'm glad tohave you in my network now as welglad that we are connected. Lastly, give theaudience your sort of like life motto or a diding principle that they cantake home with them today and and use, oh goodness, a life motto, I think m.It might be a little bit of what I just said. Actually you know Heather's awork in progress and I'm a big believer in having a growth. Mind that you knowlearning is never done. It's probably the thing that I love the most aboutyou know the sales profession is that you know there's always work to be done,and so I definitely distencourage other to adopt that you know same kind ofmentality of just being a work in progress, and you know absorbing anykind of groterlinning opportunities that present themselves to you. Youheard it from heather being a work in progress is a good thing and I feel thesame way about myself, nd, and so that's that's great. To hear that. UKnow the learning is never done and I think that being a leader in sales, I'mlearning something or some things new every single day, not just about theprofession but about myself as a leader. So I I absolutely love that this hasbeen a ton of fun. Tell everyone how they can get in contact with you, yeahnd. Probably the Best Tay is finding me on Lincoln and so ha er Oidar varyunique. Las Name Fly drt and happy to answer anyquestions or connectithanyone offline cool and your revenue, collective o slack handle am myflackcatle. I think I is actually just my full name: AEODR NR. Is it phx O at the end? It isTAA COL, heather, fodart, phx, well, listen heather! It has been greathaving you on the show. Thank you for talking to us about follower leadership.I have a feeling that the audience is going to really enjoy listening to thefour tips that y you left there. I appreciate taking some time out of yourmorning to spend it with me and have a great great sales week. Thank you somuch desten. What a great conversation...

...with Heather Foidar here are somethings that I took away from our time spent talking around leading leaders.The first is to build credibility by being relentlessly reliable. I lovedhearing that from Heatherfloidart as a guy who is notoriously on time I I canrelate to that. The second is to be fully available and present in moments.Youve scheduled this is something I struggle with, and I see lots of otherleaders struggling with being connected being available being present in thosemoments with your leadership team, not on your phone, not thinking about thenext meeting. The third is to not be above anything that you ask others todo. I think we talked quickly about Michael Jordan during this, I think,there's a great scene in the last ancwer. He says my teammates knew thatI would never ask them to do anything that I wouldn't do so. I loved hearingthat from Heather and the last is to hold others accountable privately andto celebrate their success. Publicly. Four great tips, unleaving leaders fromHeatherfoider, okay, if you're out there listening and you want to applyto revenue collective either to our executive or associate program, simplyhad over t o revenue, collective dotcom and Click, a plinaw that his revenue,collectv com clicking, apply. Now, thanks again to our guest heatherfoidark, she was amazing loved having her on. If you're wondering how toconnect with me, you can find me Youn twitter, at Justin, Sass, that's justin Saas or simply by visiting my website at the official Justin tcom.Let's connect there in talk shop, cheers.

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