The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

Ep 33: Stop Apology Calling feat Mike Basso

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Stop Apology Calling feat Mike Basso

...hi and welcome to the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey, like Gordon, and I'm your host today. Isit down with Mike Vaso. Mike is going to chat with me about why we all needto stop apology calling. The minute Mike sent me this concept, I knew Iwanted to do an episode on it because for any of us that have been in thesales profession, when you pick up that phone, sometimes you are alreadydefeated before you start the call. And so we're going to dig into a phrasethat he coined and also how he helps his team overcome that and actuallyeven celebrate the getting hung up on. So with that, let's jump in before I do.This episode is brought to you by Quota Path Commission tracking software builtby sales people for sales people. If you wake up in a cold sweat, dreadingthe commission's process quota path is for you. Quote. A path providescommission transparency for everyone involved while motivating reps to sellmore. Plus, it's so easy to on board it'll be running before your nextcommission cycle. Ditch spreadsheets and formulas simplify commissiontracking at quote a path dot com. Hello and welcome to the revenue Collectivepodcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host Today. I have theopportunity to sit down with Mike Basso, the VP of global inside sales at CoreWireless. For those of you who might not be familiar, Core is a privateequity owned global leader in I o T SAS platforms and manage connectivitysolutions. I am so excited today to sit down with Mike because we are going totalk about how you all out there need to stop apology dialing. Mike, Welcometo the show. Thanks, Casey. My pleasure to be here. I also have to share with our audiencethat the shit show that was getting our technology toe work over the past 28minutes our normal platform didn't work. We had video issues, sound issues. Weexperienced all the fatal flaws of 2020 conference rooms. In one experience, wedid. But like all good sales reps, we persevered. We did, we did. We made ithappen. You sent me a couple of topics about what we might want to talk abouttoday. And you sent me. This one was a recent post. You did so for any of youlistening. Go out and look up, Mike. On LinkedIn, you could see the post there,but to stop apology dialing. And I did two things. I laughed first of allbecause I knew exactly what you meant. I said, I guarantee there's sorry orthe word just in there and I scrolled down and there waas Yeah, And then Ifelt a little bit of red nous on my face a little. A little shame, becauseI'm like, I'm apology dialed. I've done that. So tell me where this conceptcame for you. Yeah, absolutely. And and...

...we've all done it and we all still doit. I still, you know, I tried to eliminate some of these words we'regoing to talk about and it zits difficulty. It's right. It's alwaysbeen part of our language, but it can kill you over the phone and email andother forms, but especially over the phone. So the way the concept cameabout is you know, I do an on boarding training still with our str teams, andpart of that is really helping them overcome Call reluctance. Call.Reluctance is probably in my experience, the number one reason. But STRS fail,right? They start out probably the first month. They're new, they're doinggreat. This is anybody trying to do outbound prospecting, not just STRS,and then they start running into the tougher prospects. It's a very nice wayof saying it. But yes, I hear you for prospects and they eventually developed callreluctance. And what happens is they startapologies dialing because they expect to get that tough prospect every timethey pick up the phone. You know, it's probably only about 20%of time. Most people are somewhat accommodating right at various degrees,but some are not. And I think is people we often remember or or are mostimpacted by the last negative experience we had. Exactly. It sits inour mind. It's much bigger. We don't think about the success we had then thegood, good calls we've had, we kind of focus on those and then they startadding up. There's a couple of things that I really try to hit on first, Iwant to help them identify what apology dialing is and why they apology, dialand again, the reason they apology dial is they've permanently adjusted theiropening or their approach to suit the minority. Give me a couple apologyDial's entry. So hello and then what happens? Hi, Casey. I'm just calling. Iwas hoping maybe did I catch you at a good time? I'm just wondering, maybehoping, hawk, and it's just it's a lot of just and hoping and essentiallyapologizing for the call. And I don't know about you, but I can recognizewhen I get that. And I think you're about to ask me something I don't want.So get. I want to get off the phone, even if it may be a really goodsolution. Exactly. You make a very good point. By doing that, you actually dothe opposite of what you're trying to do, right? Your apology, John. You'retryingto lesson the impact of your call your essentially by using Hi, I'm justcalling Just is a very weak word, and it's watering down the impact ofcalling whether you're doing that consciously or subconsciously, bysaying just calling. You're you're apologizing for the call, right? Andyou're doing You're doing that in hopes...

...that the prospect that's receiving thecall will be less likely to brush you off or or be being to you. But whathappens in reality? By being weak, you are actually increasing the prospectsdefenses. You're raising their defenses instead of lowering their defenses. Andyou get what you get, you apology, you dial. And it's just a vicious cycle, bythe way. Oh, I love that you get what you give, so you deliver a lack ofconfidence. You deliver an apology, you deliver that this message I'm about totell you isn't really worth your time. The prospect immediately says It's not.I'm gonna get off the phone. Yeah, 100%. And I referenced in another earlierarticle, quote by Simon Black. And and he basically says, people believe inthose who believe in themselves, right? And that's what it's all about. If youapology dial, you are automatically telling the prospect that you are notworthy of their time. So I'm curious when you're doing thesetrainings. I think it's human nature. Like you said, you know, you're aseasoned professional. I've been in this space for a while and we stillfall victim to it. So and we have the successes or maybe the war stories orbattle scars toe to make us a little bit more resilient to that. How do youbegin Thio, coach your your SDRs and how do you What are some of those moreaffirmative ways of overcoming call reluctance? Yeah, that's a very goodquestion. As a matter of fact, it started with me overcoming callreluctance. Most good teachers have experienced the hell that they teachexactly. I started in outside sales in in the early nineties, corporateoutside sales in 92 I was in until 96 and I was a pretty seasoned outsidesales professionals. A matter of fact, eventually was managing people in mucholder than me. So I had no problem making cold calls and doingpresentations in person. But when I went into inside sales and I went to work for a company thatmoved over here from the UK, and I had two very good mentors that that we'rejust really great and overcoming call reluctance started with my boss tellingme nobody can shoot you over the phone, and that's the worst thing that canhappen right at the end of day. Nobody's shooting at you. You cannotdie from cold calling, right? So it's kind of putting. He helped me put it inperspective. What's the worst thing you can happen?My ego gets bruised. Maybe not the worst thing out in theworld. Thio have that happened? Especially as you're building thatmuscle in that capability? Exactly. But the first to further your question theway I kind of help are are STRS and our str managers because they coach to thisright when they're listening to calls.

I kind of helped him visualize and Iwas doing this for a long time and I kind of allude how this kind of went tothat first swing state. And I always said, Think about 10 people that youcall two are going to be very tough. They'regonna be jerks, right? They're assholes. Essentially. Yeah, call it like it is.We all experienced it exactly right. And by the way, they probably lefttheir house, kick their dogs, slammed the door back to work and yelled atevery rep that called them before you There, asshole. Nous is not about you.It's about things that are far beyond that Five second call. Exactly. So forthem to understand them. It xyz them, not the SDR, right? Its's you. It's notme. It goes a long way. But I said on the other end of that spectrum, ofthose 10, there's 20% that will talk to anybody. Know regardless how bad thatyou are. And especially in the beginning, those the ones you got rightas the new str you're gonna get those easy 20%. Your job is an str is to getbetter with each tile and move those six in the middle. Those six in themiddle in the beginning are gonna swing negative because you knew. Buteventually, if you can overcome your fear and not developed call reluctanceand understand what ISS right, you get those six to swing the other way basedon how confident you are, how well you present, How will you ask questions andhow well you lower the prospects defenses instead of raising them? Ireally love the fact that you you identified the outliers for those thatyour training because what I find a sales professionals, marketingprofessionals, anybody that's in this world tracking performance optimizationnumbers are such a driving factor for how we like to operate, and when youlook at, you know, just to use those round numbers. If you look at 10 calls,it's very easy for any of us to say I need to be perfect at the 10 and foryou to say Hey, four of them, they're gonna be way too nice and not yourcustomer and way too mean and not your customer. Just take those off. Your jobas a professional is those six, and that becomes much more attainable inany world that we're in. And I love what you said is at the beginning. Theywill swing negative, and over time your goal is to move them into neutral andthen positive. It's this mindset of just a little bit better. It doesn'thave to be perfect. You don't need to have all six. But if you could turn oneof those six positive two of those six positive and I'm curious, how do youcreate an environment of accepting that the beginning part? Those six. They'regonna be not positive. How do you create that? That tolerance and andspace to grow? That's a very good question, and it really starts withbeing okay to fail, right? I've done different things anddifferent things over the years. Like I did a dare to fail contests. Weactually believe it or not. Prior to...

...covert, we had a couple of contestswhere they could win. My scratch made brownies. I do scratch, made bakingright. They could win those and it would be a month long contest and it'swho got hung up on the most. That's how you want the context. And it was always We ran this two orthree times, and the person that got hung up on the most was actually themost successful is well, as far as leads, they generated it. We took thisstigma out of getting hung up, and the other thing I do is when we're in theoffice prick over, we would go into the boardroom and do group calling, right?And I would go first a SVP. I would still go first and then the managerswould go next and I would get hung up on when I got a tough 20%. So I showedit was okay. You get hung up on right, you get rejected because I've beenselling over the phone for a long time, but those 20% are still. They stillhung up on me or they still beat me right again because it's not about you.It's not about your skill or capability. It's about their own things. They'recoming into that engagement with exactly being hung up on or gettingrejected, and it should not be a stigma. It is. It is. It's an opportunity togrow. And I can't remember who I quoted recently on the stop apology, darling,So they'll have to look it up to see who that person is. But it was a quotethat really summed all this up. It was the purpose of life is to be defeatedby greater and greater things. Oh, yes, and I can't remember. I apologize. Ican't remember who, exactly the quote waas, but it's something I preach. Theway you get better. All right is you get you get better with each style bygoing beyond your current capabilities just a little bit every day and beingwilling to fail. I think that that Zatz really, really powerful, especially youcreating an environment where VP goes first and look it still can be reallychallenging. Ah, couple of things I'm curious about and this just comes tomind. Do you notice a generational difference in younger talent with callreluctance, or do you see it consistently across the boardconsistently? E. Believe it or not, it's consistent across the board. Thatis interesting to me, because I know that you know, I'm just thinkinggenerationally, especially some of those you know, more entry level intothe business world that maybe didn't grow up answering phones or doing thatkind of dialing. And so I think it's very interesting that it's not aboutthe past experiences, but rather it is about that emotional triggered responseof the negative prospect that drives that behavior. It's not necessarilyskill or where they're coming from. Absolutely as a matter of fact, whenwhen you put it, when you put somebody new on the phone to make cold callsright, you put them through some initial training. They don't start out.Apology dialing MM developed over time. Some develop a quickerdepending on a lot of factors, right,...

...but it it zits because they run intothose tough 20% prospects, and then they just get. They get worse with eachstyle and they develop it. But there's ways we can help get themout of that. Yeah, I want to talk about that.Because so as a manager, you have your your SDRs come in or as a team lead,they're they're doing good. And then is it that you start noticing? What aresome of the indicators that this is happening in your team? Because you'renot on every call, right? You're not in every meeting, but is it through checkins that they start thio surface this to you? Is it through performance whenyou say, Hey, we're not hitting our number of our activity metrics. We'renot seeing results come in the back end. Where do you start seeing those earlyindicators that I got to get ahead of this? Actually, we expect it wayExpected A process? Yeah, We expected about 30 days in some. Hit it sooner.Some hit it later. Very few don't hit it. We call it a dip. Okay. Death.Gordon's book. The depth, I think, is very fitting here. Yeah, for that. Andthe dip basically says when they're new, they're excited. But once reality setsin, they get into dip. Some don't come out right. Even as good as we train.Not everybody comes out of the depth, but eventually everybody does soexpected. And obviously I don't listen to as many calls as I did in the past,right? I don't manage the STS direct anymore. When I first came to court, Ibuilt the team and did manage it for a while because I wanted to build it. Butnow I've got four SCR managers and they listen to calls all day long, right? They spend a lotof really engaged in Yeah, and we use. We use outreach and, you know, theytagged the calls, is not interested, right? Or they tag it in a certain wayand they could go and specifically listen to those. But there's a lot oftelling signs, but we're on the look for it because we know what's gonnahappen. And then our job is to get them out of that depth and away from callreluctance. Because if you don't identify call reluctance early, itbecomes where it can't be repaired, right? I would imagine that callreluctance can very quickly that dip can become a plummet into poorperformance. And then it may be that that's not something that we can coachout of or it's not something that we can sustain on the team. And so arethere any of those I don't want to say Watch out. But any of those things forpeople listening that either maybe you know, a rep doing that Diallo's well orteam leads that that they could be proactive around. Well, it's just it's seeing that dip inthe leads they're generating, right? Those when we see that we know mostlikely based on our experience, that there's a good chance that that'shappening and then it's it's listening. It's really just listening to the calls,whether you know, through through outreach or whether they're in theoffice back in the day, right? It...

...almost seems back in the day, back inthe day, totally back in the day. But, you know, I can hear it while I'mwalking through. Back in the day when we were in the office, I could hear itwalking through the department right and knew where it was going. But, yeah,how do you create a culture where I almost. I'm imagining a world in whichyour fellow reps start to coach each other. Hey, I heard you apology dialingand almost that you create. You name it so that it It is something that is notyour doing something bad. But it's almost this peer level coaching. I'mcurious. Have you? Have you been able to see any of that? I have. And unfortunately, I justreally coined the term apology that I recognized that I'm sure that you'vehad other other terms or other you know, accuse of this. Yeah, just and hopingthey'll say, You know that. As a matter of fact, I think at one point they hadthey had a jar you throw a quarter in and then they brought. Somebody buyslunch, right order. Every time you throw, you say just. But I'll say it'smore than just just a za faras. That's it's the whole persona, and it's not,by the way, it's more than words can say. It's more than just the words.It's the tone ality Aziz well, its's. They're exuding the lack of selfconfidence in the call, and that has more impact in some cases than thewords I'm gonna put you on the spot, because why not this podcast? I'm ahost, and I get to do fun things. Can you give me an example of a reallysolid cold call? Like, can you give me, like, an intro tee up? Because I It hasbeen so long since I've done true cold calling. And I'm, like, dying to hearwhat the How do I avoid just questioning and hoping and apologizing?Yes, you can. Actually, you can absolutely put me on the spot. I am alittle rescue because we're not in the office, so I haven't done the groupcalling in a while. But we do have a short 20. I'm very I am very much aproponent of structured openings. Quick, 22nd openings. Otherwise, your reps,they're gonna wing it and they're gonna be 30 seconds long, full of apologiesand full of everything else. Right? So it's really it's our openings airliterally 20 seconds long, and they have six key elements in them. We don'thave time to go through all of them, but let me see if I can, actually,because three other thing is we want our reps toe haven't internalized andwe want them to have it come out naturally, right? It has to feelauthentic Thio whoever it iss exactly. So yeah. All right. Good morning, Casey,this is Mike with Cora Wireless. I was calling to learn about your connected io t solutions to see if core would be a good fit or not. Are you the rightperson to speak with? So you get right to it. One 100% andthey go, Yeah, I'm the right person. Speak. Go. Perfect. We do a shortcredibility statement. Hi, I'm Mike. With core wireless, we met. We helpsimplify the complexities I ot by enabling management of multiplecarriers through one platform. Casey is...

...your GPS device. Does it use currentlyuse cellular connectivity? Sure. Yes. And then we're onto ourfirst. Because by the way, if that's a yes, great, we could move forward. Ifit's a no, they don't have a new need for our service. Right. Oh, I love this.Okay, So you're saying keep it short and sweet. 20 seconds. You're starting?Not Yes. You introduce yourself because it's weird if you don't, But you veryquickly get to say are you the right person. So at each step, you're savingyour reps. Hopefully time. Yes or no, I'm not. Yes, Let's talk. No. Can youdirect me? And then the second piece of it is Do you have this need? Yes, I'vealready gotten a positive indicator or no. And I would imagine the difficultquote unquote customers that we talked about before. They're probably going tocut you off much earlier than before. You even get into some of thosequestions they are. And if the call goes correctly, we've done our homework.We're gonna get to Yes is Yes. I'm the right person. And yes, our deviceregarded cellular connectivity. Right? And from there, it's just a syriza offconversation, right? Tell me more about your device, Right? But the way westructure our opens is if you heard I'm calling to learn, right? Not self.Learn calling toe. Learn to see if core would be a good fit or not. And weactually emphasize the or not give them the out. Yeah, yes, but we're notpausing there. Okay? We're really not We're not giving them that. We'reletting letting them know that we care whether or not. There's a fit here, andwe're just not gonna call and start pitching. If there's not, we're notbringing value. If we're not a fit, we're not gonna waste your time Threeminutes in finally asking that question. Yeah, I think that it's interesting ofwhat I'm hearing. I mean the confidence level. It's almost that you want tobring your SDRs to become peers, not selling into. But hey, we have value toand we need to know if you are a fit for us similarly, and I think we allknow this innately, but it is so hard to practice it is, and you hit on it.You know, one of the things that I was preaches prep practice and internalized. You have to know I was a little rusty.But when we're in the office and we're doing the group call is I know thatinside now in our reps today know that inside it out and they don't add words,they don't take away words. It's short, it's crisp, it works, and by the way,they could suggest changes to it after 60 days after they've proven they canuse it. Okay, so that's Hewitt's always something that could be optimized madebetter. But you have to have a baseline in order to start optimizing it.Exactly. And we, by the way, we move forward as a group. So group decides, is that because everyword counts? Yeah, every word, every pause, right? If you put a pause in thewrong place and you're not ready for...

...the prospect to take control, you've doomed yourself, right? So it'sjust not about the words. It's positive, and it's everything. There's two thingsI really like about what we're talking about here. One the group mandateddecision making. I think that creates such, I have found, creates such anaccountability to each other that if I'm gonna be suggesting something, it'snot just to make Casey's life easier. We all have to agree that it's gonnamake things better. And then the second piece of it is there is such a science.I mean, like you said 20 seconds. The pause matters, and I think that I thinkseason sales professionals know that about the science. But I think a lot ofpeople that are coming into it think it's about this, this cachet being thesmooth talker. ITT's some of that. And you don't realize that that air ofconfidence yes, has to come across, but it is so precise. Yeah, by the way, youhit on something I'm gonna be reading on about and I talk about Don't be thecool guy on these calls, right? It's It's I don't even like the word. Hey, Iwant you. You don't know who you're talking to yet, Right? And on our CRScall it very high. Executive level CEO, CFO CTO VP of engineering, right. Youcan't. You can't approach them now. They may eventually be that person. Youmay be a favor and later, but you gotta earn it right. You gotta earn it. Sodon't call them up and say Hey, Hey, bro. Hey, Button, don't be cool guy.Right? Leave Cool guy at home. Yeah, and and maybe cool guy can show uplater in the conversation, but you've got to be You've got a mirror and matchand you don't know what the personality is until they start talking. Yeah, Yeah,I love that. I want to hear What about cold? Calling outside sales and I justreally being that having to do the dialing. What about that? Do you likefor for sales people? Well, the S e r position. I think some people love it.Some people hate it, but it let's those who specializes in it, do it and those who don't not do it right.Your average enterprise rep who hasn't called called in 20 years, shouldn't in a lot of cases, unlessthey've gone through some training, they're not very good at it. Plus,you're paying them to do other things, right? Hey, and not generate leads. Butif you are somebody that is a business fellow manager and you have to do yourown prospecting, you better be good at it, right? I always say half the battleis getting the prospect on the phone and properly engaged and passed thefirst minute or so. That's half the battle. You're halfway home, if notmore. I mean, it is so like that impression and that ability to hookthem. I imagine if you correlated has...

...such a higher propensity Thio to carrythrough versus, you know, having to disconnect in the first minute. Well,it does, and you know, I was that sort of that business development up earlyin my career, I generate my own leads. You know, we didn't have S E. R s and Ilearned how to call at a high executive level Early in my career, I was callingCMOS. They weren't called CMOS back then I'm getting. They were evey pieceof marketing and senior vice president of marketing, and I was calling Fortune500 companies, UPS, FedEx, Rolex, you name it and talking with somebody whoknew 100 times more about marketing than I did. And I had to be on my game, and itworked. No, I started my inside sales career straight commission, tough talk. But I made a lot of money,and I eventually started my own business and was successful by beingable to pick up the phone and and engage anyone, anywhere, anytime whereothers couldn't. I think that's a really interestingpiece of all the roles that you could have across your sales journey. I thinkthe ability Thio really hone that SDR, too, at home that to your point, pickup the phone, engage someone you know, capture their interest may have thegreatest long term r O I or versatile R O I, depending on whatever you want todio 100% is a matter of fact case. You bring up a great point when we hireSTRS, we tell them the greatest thing you're going to get from being comingin str with us is not your paycheck. Yeah, you're going to get thefoundation of sales success and that's the ability to pick up the phone and bethat rare salesperson that people are willing to engage. And when you becomean enterprise rep one day and move throughout your career, you will be oneof those that know how to do it if need be. And a matter of fact, we almostexclusively promote from our str teams are are my other positions and areinside department. We have business development managers and accountdeveloped managers Just like most tech companies, they come from our STRSThey're starting to filter some of those They're now starting to filterour to our outside team and you know, we use RCR team for two purposes,generate leads and provide talent to the rest of civil. I love that early onin my career, the first sales role I had I had a CEO, small firm. Herequired that I made 200 cold calls a day. No, just no God, no. I wouldprobably would have been there for day two. But that was my I think I hadabout a two week period where I had to call I to build out what was anoffering or something. I could dio It was, you know, the comfortable ity ofbeing hung up on the ability that if...

...you do have someone engaged, how canyou provide value quickly? And it was the frequency and repetition of those200 calls that I learned probably mawr during that period of time about somany things. One what I liked and didn't like from a talent, perspectiveor a career path thing. The ability to quickly find what that person caredabout. The ability to reiterate messaging and quickly do those 80 s inyour mind. My tone here it really resonated this person. I had thio likeyou were saying that hey versus high. What are the things that resonated myconfidence, energy, all of those things, and doing it at scale. You begin to seethose patterns and it was It was hell wasn't my favorite thing I've ever done.But I agree with you wholeheartedly that demonstrating to myself and to theemployer that I could do that set me on a path in which there's very few thingsthat truly scare me away. Yeah, absolutely. And another point I thinkyou surface is we hire a lot of people that have marking degrees. I lovemarketing, I've done marketing. And we also say, you know, whether you stay insales or you gonna marketing. Having that background as an SDR can actuallyhelp make you eventually a better marketer completely. It's the closestway in the most visceral customer reaction you're going to get, and youbegin to understand that you hone that. And I think empathy for your salescounterparts in marketing right is a lot of times marketing is come on salesgo sell the thing. But to truly understand the complexity of being onthat front line, some of the I mean it could be super demoralizing. It couldbe super, you know, challenging to maintain that momentum and to recognizethat Ah, great messages so much of what sets that sales person up for success.I think it drives a shared experience. It does. And the other thing I actuallysuggesting we've done this a couple of times. When we do, the group calling isin the office. Bet she invite marketing. Mm. There in the room. Love that. Andthey enjoy it. They get a lot of insight live. Do you ever getresistance from your team on group calling? I'm thinking about myself. Asmall audience could make me really nervous. Far more than thousands ofpeople. No. And again, we haven't done it since Cove. In, of course, alreadydoing it prior that about six or seven years I've been doing it. I did it. Mycurrent position, of course. And I did it that my last position in SIA and not a lot of pushback, because Ithink what helps is I'm willing to go first for the 1st 45 minutes. Yeah,that's power about three hours, and that that helps and it putseverybody it is, and we have a good time. I mean, a lot of times wayactually get in trouble because we're so loud and obnoxious and way have agood time with it. I had a couple of things that I've also taken away fromtoday is allow the process to play out...

...the dip. So you, you know, it's It'snot how do we stop the dip? But it's how do we recognize it helped coachthrough it and quickly get through it. It's not that we get rid of the dipaltogether because you understand that's gonna happen. That's humannature. And the second piece is you talked a lot about one making yourselfa part of the process. Don't sit up it, you know, up top and put you point yourfinger down of the things to dio and bringing a tremendous amount of fun toit that we're in this right. Prospecting and sales in general can bevery challenging, but we each other can create a team of fun that help usovercome those two customers that aren't the easiest to sell to will sayexactly, you know, instead of when an SDR gets off the phone and they've beenhung up on instead of letting it affect them, they have a laugh about it withthe other with the other SDRs right. They've learned that it's because theyknow everybody else is going through it as well. Yeah, it's demystifying it,and it's humanizing it exactly. Mike, I have enjoyed today's conversation. Ifeel like, you know, I get to talk to a lot of people on here, and you gavesuch specific examples and you were willing to be vulnerable. So thank youfor real time pitching me here. I know. I put a lot. Um, yeah, yeah. Thank youso much. This was wonderful. Anything else you wanna leave our audience with?Yeah, Casey, First of all, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on. And,you know, I think just leaving whether you're in str your sales leader, likeyou said, have fun understanding the reasons why behind all of it and justbe willing to fail. And because failure will actually make you better. Yeah,the more failure you have that means that you're closer, Thio. Improvingthose six now are less less queuing. Negative and they're beginning toe Makethat turn into positive. Exactly. Yeah. All right, Mike, this was a blast. Myname is Casey. Like Gordon, I'm your host and this is the revenue collectivepodcast. We'll see you next time. All right. That is a wrap on anotherrevenue collective episode. My name is Casey. Like Gordon and I'm your host.This episode was brought to you by quota path. Quota path is the firstradically transparent and end compensation solution from sales repsto finance. Get started for free at quote a path dot com. And your nextcommission cycle could be totally automated. We'll see you next time.

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