The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 2 months ago

Ep 263: You Must Manage Up w/ Mark Ebert

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You Must Manage Up w/ Mark Ebert

Part of the "Is This A Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Pavilion Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Barton. You're listening to Is this a good time to show? Where I put Pavilion members on the hot teat for fifteen minutes we hear their incredible stories. Shows around on Monday, so hit subscribe you're not miss hearing from our experts. Happy Thanksgiving week to everybody excited to have a few days off with family and good food. Our guest today is Mark Ebert. He is the VP of or SVP excuse me of sales at six Cents, and we talk about why you should always manage up how to actually do that as well. This episode was brought to you by Gong, the reality platform. Gong uses customer interactions what people say right chat read at the heart of the AI platform. It gives you autonomous insights about deals and suggest the next steps that are based on what's really being communicated between customers and reps. No more decision making based on anyone's opinion. For full visibility into your performance and market data, visit Gong. That's g O n G. I. Oh, all right, let's do this episode one. Is this a good time? All right? Everyone's so excited to have with me. Mark Ebert. He is the s VP of sales at six Cents. Mark, so great to have you on the pod. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to all meet No fillow. We jump right into questions, Um, why don't you Uh, I think a lot of people know what six senses probably hearing me read the ads. Go ahead and tell people what six censes, give them the spiel. And then let's talk a little bit about kind of your past and and you've been a bunch of different places, really interesting to go through, kind of where you came from. Absolutely, well, Um, if you're not familiar with six cents, we are. We have we offer what's called a revenue AI platform, and really we're helping marketers and sales leaders build and create convert pipeline to revenue. So we offer a platform that's often used in the account based marketing space and then also offer a suite of solutions that helps sellers better navigate their accounts in their contacts, ultimately helping build more predictable pipeline.

And uh and and you know, give us a circumstances for you to join, um six cents Sure, so I joined about five and a half years ago. UM, and I had come from a prior company called Responses and UH. At Responses, I was actually working underneath Jason Zintach, who at the time was global head of sales. We were acquired into the Oracle Marketing Cloud and I spent a few years there learning we're we're like experiencing all things digital for B two C and then we saw what was happening kind of on the similar trajectory on the B two B front and UH it was at that point decided to make a jump over with Jason and some of the other folks to go join a little company called six Cents. And so that's how we ended up here. I love it, man, love it and um and so previous to that or along the way, give us a cent, like how did you get involved in the industry? Had to get involved in selling? I mean, where's your where's your background? I started right out of college as a b dr. It was really the only job that I could make a decent salary as I'm not a doctor or you know, a lawyer, and UH loved it right out of the gates. UM. So I that's kind of how I got started at a at a small company here in Boston, was there for about six years, had quickly kind of moved into a selling role UM, so sold for a number of years there and then and then transitioned over from there to to response this actually and then it was a combined five or six years before I made my way over here. So the whole the whole time, I've been in the marketing technology or sales tech kind of ecosystem, and it's been fun to see it evolve over the years. And what would you say to somebody who's listening, who's you know, maybe we have some folks listening who are in college or something like that, would you say that it's still a good path to start as an SDR, B d R. I mean, is like so many people, by...

...the way who I've interviewed have started as such. So it just want to lead the witness here. But I mean emphatically yes, And maybe I'll share a little bit of why, because I am passionate about that answer. I mean, first of all, I love the sales profession as as a as a career. UM it's been the most rewarding and challenging but fun job path and there's really no better way to get started than to see if you kind of enjoy that really competitive nature when you get started as a as a BDR or an SCR, you don't have to have really any prior experience, so which you just got to bring to the table as a willingness to work hard and learn. So the I mean, we've hired people. I know, you're in the restaurant industry. Some of our best BDRs we're chefs prior to joining right, And so that's why I love it. It's really a career path that's open to anyone. But the second thing is in sales as a career, like you know, you you can and many in so many ways control your destiny. You work for yourself really and if you bet on yourself and you you know you bet on that, you can figure it out. You can work hard, you can make things happen, you can really control your earnings and all sorts of fun things. So it's a it's a lifestyle that for many super rewarding and you meet some great people along the way. Yeah, I mean I would say, um, no better place to to to learn how to deal with adversity than being a b d R SCR. I mean the batting average there, right, is is what it is. Even if you're great, you're gonna hear no more than yes and uh and it kind of helps you to u to get beat up a little bit early in the in the career. You definitely developed thick skin. There's no question about it. I love that. Well. Look, I mean we're talking obviously about some of the hard work you've been through. Give me a sense of, you know, where was their luck or even privilege that's been added into your career that just helped, you know, helped get you from uh,...

...you know, up one step on the ladder luck. Lots of things I can think of specific big game changing deals I closed as a wrap where lucky you got to have on your side on timing. But probably the biggest, the biggest one for me was when I left. When I left my first job, I had been there six years out of college and I that's all I knew, right, But I thought I knew it all at the time, um, and so little did I know, like what types of companies were out there and what types of people there were at so many really exciting places. And I really fell into the hands at responses by pure luck. UM. And when I got there, I realized how amazing of a place it was, how smart the people were. And it was really my time there that got me to meet so many amazing people that has you know, truly then kind of changed the course of my career togetory. But that the lucky part is falling into a company with so many really smart people that has you know, remained a big part of my life ever since. And was that just the cold applying on the on the website or you know, they were they were a semi competitor to the bigger company. I was working under that experience at the time, right, So, but it was it was literally a recruiter phone call at a time when I was ready to do something new. I I didn't do a whole lot of homework. And that's that's where I said I would never choose a job that easily next time. But I I got lucky when I chose, uh that one, for sure. I love it, love it all right, man, you've been in sales for it seems like twenty thirty years. I know it's less than that. UM, give us your best sales or marketing tactic, get you know, give us something great here. I mean, and it can't just be used the sixth sense playbook or uh no forms, no spam, no, no cold call or whatever. You know, give us something that that you've found over the years that get people to take that next up, take that...

...next meeting. I guess I'll have to. The first one is, you know, just as it relates to get getting meetings, truly understand what's going to get someone to say yes, um by you know, putting putting yourself in their shoes and proactively get ahead of what you know are coming as the objections. And so when we talk about preparing for like a phone call, like sometimes I'll prepare for thirty minutes for a really important call, I'm trying to go land, not thirty seconds, right, um, And what I'm thinking about is like everything that could possibly be said as an objection, and then how do I deliver you know, quickly get to the point, but pro you know, kind of get ahead of those objections, be ready for them and preparation. And then just in a sales career, you know, I spend a lot of time with our team talking about like a healthy a E two manager or BDR to man manager relationship and something everybody can do is learn how to manage up really well, because I think you know so many times you hear of like conflicting very strenuous relationships between a salesperson and their manager. But like you know, nirvana as a seller and as a manager is that you're truly got a relationship on trust. But it can only happen when you know the rep in this example is doing the hard work of thinking critically so that the manager doesn't beat you to it. Yeah, go deep on this, pull on this for a little bit. Like what is managing up to you? Good question? I would say it's get it. Managing up allows you two instead of being on opposite sides of a desk or virtual desk, allows you and your manager to then turn to be on the same side and on the same team and tactically, Like what that can look like is don't let your manager be the one who's critical to the work you're doing.

Be your own best critic as opposed to telling your manager what they want to hear. And there's nothing better from a manager to hear your rep being critical and bringing the problems to the table to work through with with your manager. Because all we want to do is win like we want to win with the rep. We are on the same team, but so quickly when the when the rep is telling the manager or something that they think they want to hear, they don't understand the manager actually doesn't want to hear that. I don't want to hear all the reasons why this is great. I want to hear all the reasons we're stuck, and let's put our heads together and solve it together and go win together. And when you kind of cross that chasm of thinking beating your manager to the punch of being the most critical thinker in the room, then all of a sudden you become a two man sales team or two women sales team, and you can move past all of that like uncomfortable stuff that goes down in those relationships. And I think as a sales industry as a whole, if that relationship between the manager and the rep improves, like everyone will do a hell of a lot better and enjoy their jobs a lot more. Yeah, it's it reminds me of of something I learned very early on, which was it's not about whether your forecast is going to make the quarter, make the month. It's actually about how accurate. Your forecast is right, Like, it matters so much more than to be jamming things in fictitiously or pulling things in from next quarter. It matters so much more your accuracy. And it reminds me of that relationship because that's like a that's a moment of let's say, I don't trust that even though I'm telling my boss I'm not gonna hit the quarter that they're gonna help me. I just I'm gonna pretend like I'm going to come up short. And then you know, well, and being accurate allows you to quickly move past it. I mean, it's a factual thing. It an accurate forecast is based on data alone, right, So it allows you to then say, okay, well, based on that, do we like it or do we not like?...

What do we do? What do we do to change it? To do about it? That's right. It allows you to kind of quickly move forward to that, Well, let's go do what we really want to do. But let's not kid ourselves because when we find out that on five days before the quarter ends were in trouble, yeah, I I equated to like like like any sport where imagine you were down three goals, but the scoreboard in your mindset you were up one, you played very differently, Like there's like there's just a very different way you want to play that game. You know, I'm saying soccer or football, but like could be anything. Very cool. I had to chat on what last night actually on that topic with one of our managers, and and and he had asked me, he said, like, I love it. We're having the same exact discussion, like, but how do how do I get that behavior to start happening? I wanted to happen, but it's not happening. I think the best tip for the managers listening is reward that behavior when it happens, Like when they call you and say, hey, I wanted to get ahead of a problem with my pipeline, and I think I've got to the bottom of what's wrong and what I need to do to fix it, but I'm looking to you for help. When that Paul comes in as a manager, say can before I get there, I just say, hell, yeah for making that phone call. That is exactly what I want to hear. Nice job, all right, and just really reinforce that good behavior and and and call it out in front of the team. You don't need to give the person a you know, a gift or a trip or anything. But like I think I think that's um, that's something that's worthy of showing others that when problems are brought you're not just going to get reprimanded about them. It's like you're you know, love it Mark, all right, man, Well, some some quick fire ones here. Any key positions you're hiring for. Yes, Uh so we're growing our business internationally and we've got a great group of people out in London um that are selling into a MIA and Paul, who's leading our team out that way stuff, is hiring an enterprise sales leader on his team. That's...

...probably the most important ones. So for those out in London, the positions that would be based in the London area. But yeah, we're looking for an enterprise leader out there. Love it, man, love it And um who would you want to give some shout outs to, you know, people who you've appreciated over the years, or their content or their message that they give out. Well, first, I'm blown away by what the all the VC community puts out in their blogs. I think it's the most underrated place to learn a lot if you want to get into like sales leadership. There's there's quite a lot of good stuff out there. And inside Ventures who's an early backer at six cents, They've been a phenomenal partner. Their stuff is great. There's a guy named Gary Service who runs their marketing practice who's phenomenal and Matt Hines are also a big influence. He has probably been a guest on your show before. But everything Matt puts out our our customers love. I love and on the marketing side of the community for a guy, a lot of fun too. I love it, man, love it all right. Well, we'll leave you on this very important to me. You can give us a place anywhere you want in the world. Give us a restaurant. We gotta go check out. I mentioned Um, I mentioned London. I'm going out in two weeks. Um. But you've probably been there before, but dessume no. I have it all right. So if you like Indian food, it is the coolest place. And I think there's a few locations out there, but that was probably my favorite. And as I'm planning my trip, I'm like, we have to find time to go eat there again. It was phenomenal. Love it, man, love it. I I do love Indian food as I worked in it in one of the most famous Indian restaurants in New York, but I have not been out there to eat. Mark. Good luck with the international expansion. You've got a wealth of knowledge. I appreciate you sharing it with us and and excited to keep in touch. Man. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good talking to you. All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the show, great review, gift time right, grate...

...and review, send me five stars, send me a message saying hey, this is great. Either way, I'm gonna read it and I'm gonna love it, and you're gonna feel better because everyone feels better when they give instead of receive, so that is my Pleavia. This episode was brought to by Gong the reality platform create an aligned, seamless buying experience for your teams and customers that's based on reality, not opinions. Check it out at gong don g dot Io. Had so much fun today. I hope you did too. Now get out and crush the numbers and eat the turkey.

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