The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 month ago

Ep 245: Emotional Impact in Sales w/ John Grispon

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Ep 245: Emotional Impact in Sales w/ John Grispon

Part of the "Is This A Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the pavilion podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Martin. You're listening to is this a good time? The show where I put pavilion members on the hot seat for fifteen minutes. We hear their incredible stories. Shows are out on Thursday and if you hit subscribe, you will not miss hearing from our experts, and today we have an expert for sure. His name is John Grispin. He's a revenue architect at winning by design and we talked about a lot of different things, but specifically I was really interested in his comments on finding the emotional impact in discovery of what your sale could do for that brand. This episode was brought to you by Clarie. Drip, drip, drip. That is the sound of revenue leaking from Your Business and it's your CEO's worst nightmare. Why? In tough economic times, every drip of revenue counts. Revenue leak represents money that you've earned that is somehow slipping through the cracks. Luckily, our friends and Clarie have a purpose built revenue platform designed to help you stop revenue leak and drive revenue precision through the framework of Revenue Collaboration and governance. To learn more, visit CLARY DOT com. Slash thrive. All right, let's do this episode one nineteen. Is this a good time? All right, well, I'm super excited to have John Grispin with us. John is the one of the revenue are architects at winning by design, based out of St Louis. John, so great to have you with us. Thanks, Brandon. Thank you so much for having me. I'm always jealous of people have a better set up, you know, uh, podcast set up than I do, and you certainly have one anyway. All, all, meet, no Filler, we're gonna jump right in. Um, why don't we start off with your your career? Tell us a little bit about where you are, what is winning by design do, and then, you know, bring us back to to all the positions you've had, the VP of sales positions, I mean C R oh would be interested in kind of hearing about your revolution. Sure. So. I am currently a revenue architect at winning by design. As you mentioned, winning by design is a recurring revenue consulting agency with clients around the world, Um, over six hundred clients now, and I help organizations diagnose and...

...design and at times re engineer they're recurring revenue engine Um, primarily for growth stage startups, but we were early stage two million revenue, but also working organizations up to two billion plus some revenue. So in my background, Um, I've been an operator for over twenty years. Mostly, you know, early in my career it was software. Later in the career it was SAS, mostly sales and sales leadership and business development leadership roles. Um. For the first half my career, Um, I was at Microsoft, mostly with enterprise accounts like wells, Fargo, Boeing, a t and t. Last post at Microsoft was worldwide banking industry director and that was about a D fifty million dollar book of businessman. After that time, which was wonderful experience and global experience, Um, I got the startup bug and I got bit by one of those uh fintech companies. Um I went to become the Leed sales leader and Biz DEV leader there. We went through an I P o. So that was super interesting. Time was right around the DOT com bubble Um and UH stuck around with with the same CEO and uh we we co founded a digital health company, Um that we operated for about five years and so it's fast forward quite a bit Um and were acquired by an industry giant called Zimmer bioment. So, Um, after that I did a couple of years of advising and consulting and growth stage startups and working with accelerators, Um, and in one I merged my practice, my consulting practice, with winning by design. So that brings us, brings me the current. That's great. So you so you were consulting. I mean, you know, by getting the startup bug. I have spoken to people who then go into consulting and then go back right. Do you ever feel like you want to get back into operations? Is there a missing piece for you to just give the advice but maybe not be a part of that, like execution? Uh, you...

...know. So. So I kind of did. It's a really good question. I did that early on, as I as I left the Um, the company that acquired us. Um, I did um fractional roles or I did part time roles. All right, let's do to a try for a couple of months or six months. And while those are great, Um, you know, I somewhere along the line I stumbled onto winning by designs content and the more I read it, the more I looked at I was like this stuff just makes sense, and I found I started doing consulting using the techniques and the skills that I had learned in in some of the courses, in the books that I write. I like and had given the opportunity, I jumped at bringing my skills together with the work that they do. That's awesome and and Um, I mean, I know there's not one playbook, but what? Why don't you? Why don't you give us something that you know? I'll give it to us now. I'm not even saving it. You can do something different in tactic, but give it. What is what is the thing that people are are missing of it? Let's say in that early seed or maybe early series, a stage Um, that you you the problem that you come across most often. You know, it's Um. It's funny that you bring that up, Um, and this is something very tactical, right. So, so, whether you're selling to you know, SMB mid market enterprise, that early stage really no matter, no matter what the size, um sellers are overlooking this. And I hear investors all the time, um and her sales leaders also say I want people that are great closers, and I just think that is Bologny you don't want great closers, you want great openers. Huh, people that are great at discovery. That's where you win the sale. Um, and that's personal opinion and that's sort of what we talked about a winning by design. Most take it lightly, they don't go deep enough, and we teach at winning design. We teach a...

...methodology called spiced, spiced as an acronym for situation, pain, impact, critical event, and the D stands for decision process and decision criteria. And usually everybody is pretty good at situation and pain questions. And I the impact is is where it gets a little tricky. Um, one. You don't see people going this deep because there, I think, the concern is they don't want it to be a become a sort of a judicial inquiry. And if you set expectations up front, Um, they will appreciate the fact that you're asking questions and trying to understand, especially if you're trying to understand understand how they need to be impacted. Right. Most are decent and other uncovering rational impact. Um, this is you know what I mean by rational impact? This is costing US ten million dollars. Or we want to change our metric to improve from ten to how it impacts the business. But but many you need to layer on questions. Um, that uncovered the emotional impact abound that person. Right. Does that mean? If I solve your problem, you're gonna be able to sleep at night, you'll worry less, you'll get a promotion, you'll have happier employees. Those emotional impacts are just as important, if not more important. We make decisions based on emotions and then justify with the rational. So that's what I see early on that people are missing a lot. And ironically, big organizations, the biggest in in the recurring revenue in the SAS space, often have the same problems. So they're just in a different scale. I love that. Well, look, you know well, I love that we're getting into tactics up because I feel like you're the type of person I could sit here in pepper tactical questions that you see a lot of this stuff, but I do. I'll do you the service of of going through some of the things that we always talk about. Um, please tell us, like what what you know through your career? You obviously had exits, you had you sold your own company, you've been an...

...entrepreneur, um, but to hear any kind of strokes of luck that have kind of helped you to to get to where you are. So there's I have a have a little story that's a combination of Um, luck and hard work, right, because I think it's a combination of both. I think you brought that up early in our first conversation. I was an athlete growing up and, Um so I understood what heart work was and understood what effort was. Um, you get to a certain level, though, a Parton me you play. I played football, uh, throughout high school and college and so, uh, you know, when you get to a certain level, everyone's good, right. Um So I was not the prototyfical NFL player. Um, I, you know, was an all conference player in college, but and I wanted to try and make it to the NFL up. So while it was all conference, you know, no one was looking at me. So I wrote letters, I sent film, I made phone calls and, you know, I learned early on that it's not what you know, it's it's who you know as much as it is what you know. You gotta you gotta be competent, but you also, you know, that was sort of my stroke of luck. Um, there was an attorney friend of mine that was a former coach in my formative years and he was able to get me a tryout. Um, and I went into the preseason, went into preseason camp unsigned. So, while I got lucky with the door opening, I had to prove myself once I got in there. So and I felt like all I needed was a chance. And and I worked out with the team for a week not knowing whether they were going to sign me. At the end of that week and they signed me, and so I got a chance to suit up. I didn't make the team. I was cut. There's a whole other story. Um, but I learned an important lesson about effort, about preparation, about differentiation, and I've applied those two everything I've done ever since then. So that's my little story. That is what team? Can you say? Arizona? Okay, wow, that's incredible.

I did not know that. And Uh, I have a big proponent. You know. You said trying to find people that are openers. Um, I would also add openers who played sports. Um, I think people who have played sports, at least at the high school level. Uh, there's just a different level of of go and motivation and competition that they have. There's so that's always something I look for. But I also look for if you're anything where there's where's performance required, right, whether you were playing an instrument or whether you have a military background, right, or maybe even if you're a physician or a teacher, there's preparation involved. All those things I think make for Um, someone that might be, you know, Um. It provides early characteristics that you might be a good candidate for a sales position. Love that. Love that. Alright, we we, we pressed you a little bit on some of the things that you see. But but is there a specific sales or marketing tactic besides the emotion, you know, finding the emotional impact that you you think people can can easily put into their playbook today. So everybody has shifted to remote sales right during the pandemic. Um, but not everybody's good remote selling. Some people like the idea of face to face and for a while here it's available to us, but it might go away again, right, you have to I think one of the skills you have to develop is to be good at remote selling and there's some base skills there that you know, when it comes to being on camera, one. You gotta be able to see your face, you gotta have lighting that's decent, you've got to be heard. You've got to make sure that when you're having a conversation or doing a presentation to others, that their cameras are on and that you take advantage of the techniques that something like zoom afford you, whether it's the ability to have multiple chats on the side, maybe you have a teammate that joins you, or you record that and then create...

...a summary, a five minute summary of that hour and a half meeting that you sent in the executive that wasn't able to make it. All of those are skills, remote selling skills that you have to become good at. It's sort of par for the course now. It's the antie now in selling is to be really good at remote selling. Yeah, you know, one thing I I did not realize until recently was my battlefield is definitely in person, and part of it. Um, you would never be able to tell this over zoom, but I'm six five and so there's a different presence that I have when I walk into a room than when I'm sitting here in this little box on your screen. That doesn't come across, frankly, and so I would never have put that together. Yeah, you know, I I played, uh, listeners now, but I played basketball all through high school in a little bit of college. So athletes as well, but not at not at your level, I'll tell you that. Um, but there's I bet you that other people have specific advantage. Is that they are that they no longer have the cost of remote selling, that they're not thinking about. Um, I just had never thought about that. Like, you know, maybe there was some meeting that didn't have an impact or whatever. But also gregarious, and I'm like my arms around, I talk like I'm I'm, like, you know, an Italian kid from Brooklyn, and and then all you know. But but these things, you're right, like it's you should realize certain things are missing here make up for them in other ways. But I would also implore people to think about what was your superpower? That's now gone, and how do you get around that? Yeah, that's a really great point, because you don't catch everything, right, you really don't catch everything. When it's like this, you gotta box, you get you get the face. But but really that's it. And so I will I will say that remote selling is important, but it is not a replacement for face to face. Right, use it when you can use it absolutely. Sometimes it's not available to us, right. Yeah, I mean like, well, this will go up in August and you know we're probablyably looking at an October,...

November time framework covid it's gonna Spike again. Maybe there's other stuff, a new variant. That's what happened last year. So get it in right now, get it intember when people out there knock on the door, something exactly, exactly. Any any positions that you're hiring for winning by design, you guys have any open, open roles. So we're always on the look out for revenue architects. Um there wasn't have experience in sales management or sales ops that aren't afraid to delve into crm data. Um Look at and do funnel math using our scientific approach, analyze the revenue organization, make recommendations, help even design and implement those recommendations. That's that. That's the role. Cool. So, like if someone sitting there as a VP of sales and wants to have impact in multiple companies but maybe not go all the way to a startup, that they should call you. Absolutely love that. Definitely reach out. Yeah, I love that. Great. And then Um. You know, you had mentioned winning by design as a company that was influential and you're thinking when you are doing your consulting, who today, besides obviously what you guys do it at your company, but who today do you find puts out great content that you love following and listening to and they're really on the ball? Josh Braun, I would say. Um is a tactical sales concepts he's great at that. Amy Volas, who is Um Startup, Um Enterprise Seller, uh, and helps with finding your team, hiring that vp of sales or that sales leader. Um, Scott Lease, Um, veteran sales leader. That's out there a ton. I'm sure everybody has heard of these names. Um. So I'm maybe mentioning the what people already know about. And then Kevin Dorsey, K D Um, great on people management. He's actually part of winning by design. He's part of the team Pavilion, Um and uh, and he's been great on his own for years. And Yeah, and then for former podcasts as guests as well. So I love Kyd. Great. And then Um, look, I'm a restaurant guy. You...

...don't have to, you know, stick to where you are. You could go anywhere, but maybe St Louis. We were talking earlier about St Louis, is a pretty good restaurant scene. Give a spot we should go check out. That's under the radar. I'll give you two in St Louis. You make it to St Louis, you want to do two things. One, you want to check out you maybe he maybe heard of frozen custard, but there's a place called Ted drew's for frozen custard. It's it's a notch up from ice cream, believe it or not, any time of year. And then Um, pretty good barbecue at a place called pappy's smokehouse downtown St Louis. Love that and pretty darn good. If you don't get there at the right time they sell out and that's it. So get there early. Ted drew's. A fun fact is the concept that Danny Meyer Um was inspired by the Great Shick Shack. I don't know if you know that. Yeah, I did not know that. No, it was not an original St Louis Guy. I'm I'm from back east, but there there's there's a there's a really interesting artifact which is a Napkin that is the result of a conversation between Danny and his colleague Richard Crane. That is like custard's hot dogs and lines all over and whatever, and and and eventually that, you know, didn't initially one summer was called something else and then it became change. Anyway, John, to have you on, man, I feel like we're gonna have you back. I would like we'll do some stuff, maybe in January, where we're gonna go straight to the tactics. I would love to like get you on and just talk more of the tactical stuff, because you've got a wealthes and knowledge. So so appreciative of having you on, man. Love it well, thanks for having me, Brandon. This is fun. All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the show, please rate and review in the apple podcast, spotify APP senator friends, and make sure to smash that subscribe button. This episode was brought to you by Clary, the only enterprise system that's purpose built to run revenue. CLARRY's revenue platform helps identify and stop Revenue League so you can achieve revenue precision predictably and repeatedly. To learn more, visit CLARY C L A R I dot Com. I had so much fun today. I hope you did to now get out of crushing owners stopp.

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