The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

Ep 202: The Move From Sales To Field Marketing w/ Arthur Castillo of Chili Piper

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 202: The Move From Sales To Field Marketing w/ Arthur Castillo of Chili Piper

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the pavilion podcast. This is the show where revenue leaders come to learn the tips, tricks and tactics they need to be successful in their roles. I'm your host, Tom a LEMO. I work over at Gong. Make sure to hit me up on Linkedin. I'm excited to bring a great interview today. I got my man Arthur Castillo. Arthur is the senior manager of Field Marketing and community at Chili Piper and he's also the CO founder of the revenue era. He has a great story and I'm excited to get into one of the few people that I know that went from account executive a e into not only marketing but specifically into field marketing and into community, which is the community aspect is a new part of his role as of this month, as a February two thousand and twenty two. so He's got a great story. It's a very unique path. I love talking with him. I also love just you know, this is not a paid ad here, but I do love the folks over at Chili Piper. I love the product, but I'm a big fan of it, so I'd highly recommend you go check them out. But I think it's great conversation for anyone that's in sales considering marketing, it's in marketing, considering field marketing in particular, and some of the tips and tricks that Arthur's using to make an impact over at Chili Piper. So they you're really going to enjoy this one. Real quick, before we get there, a word from our sponsor. All right, this this episode is brought to you by Sandoso, the leading corporate gifting platform that inspires human connections for revenue driven teams to stand out at strategic points through the customer journey. And check them out at sendosocom. Now back to the show. All right, Arthur Castillo coming in hot from. I don't know where he's called in from, in the covid world and in the remote environment that Chili Piper encourages. The welcome to the show are the where are you coming from? Thank you so much, Tom. I am calling in from Toronto, Canada, so definitely spicy with Chili Piper. Not not too hot right now in Canada. Shout out to Toronto. I feel like I always hear amazing things about Toronto and specifically I'm a basketball fan. I was I listened to some basketball podcast and stuff like. Oh, you know x players, and they always seem to mention Toronto's being like one of the hot cities like that. They would go out and like party in and like it was a lot of fun. Is that I mean? Is that a thing? Is that true? I mean, maybe not now, but it's funny you mentioned that. I've always heard Charles Barkley mentioned like torone's my favorite city in North American. Yeah, I've noticed a lot of NBA players do tend to gravitate towards Toronto, maybe not playing for us. Yeah, yeah, well, that's still I'm in Kawaii. Got It, brought us a championship but left right away. So I don't know if it was the coal or whatnot, but yeah, it's a it's a great city, man. And have you ever been yourself? No, I haven't. I went to Quebec once and like a field trip in middle school. That's the only time I've been to Canada. So it's I got to check it out more. Yeah, man, next time you're next time you're here, you gotta you got a place to say I love it. Well, we got a lot of a lot of good stuff to get into you made such a unique career change. You know why you been at Chili Piper. That I want to get into and you have some some interesting thoughts on why that is. But maybe you could just kind of lay out. You started off in sales as an AE multiple places. So maybe could just walk us through, like you know, the first few kind of like you know why you got into sales, and then you know when it kind of came into your mind that maybe you know being an ae or being in sales wasn't the right fit for you for the rest of your career, you kind of sawn opportunity to head over towards the marketing world. Yeah, let's let's start there. So, coming out of university I actually studied international development of all things, and my parents are freaking me out, being like what the heck are you going to do with that? How are you going to make any money? I was like it's a good point, and at the time my dad had actually just switched over from being an electrical engineer to selling to electrical engineers and he's like...

...make better money that I ever did in engineering. I'm in control my schedule. I think you'd be really good at it. So decided to check out sales, but in a non traditional rule where my first one is actually a financial planner, which was very interesting, and that most of the financial planning playbook was hey, let me manage my uncle's and aunts money and all my family right, and that kind of helps you the beginning. Unfortunately for me, I have no family in Canada. All my family lives in in Cuba, Russia. So I had to go cold. I really had to like prospect outbound and as a twenty two year old kid, asking somebody to manage their finances not not the best pitch. So had to really understand like where I could find my footing there. Eventually went into like group benefits and then, through group benefits, would actually set up like individual financial plans, and that's what kept me a float for a little bit. I happen to be coaching soccer with I believe he was employing number thirteen at vide yard Carl Ortman's, and we're just discussing sales. We're both in sales and at the time I literally thought every sale had to be done like handshake, like that's how you would sign off on sales. facetoface. Yep, this is a deal and he starts telling me about vid yard and a lot of their customers are in California. I'm like all, you must travel along. It's like now not really like just over the phone or through video. It's like that's how you close deals. It literally blew my mind and that was kind of my first introduction into tech. So I think it was like three months after I got my first role as an str quickly climb the ranks and yeah, have really been an a ever since. Have have worked at a couple of these tech companies and that's kind of kind of what grabby into sales. But yeah, really probably like most people, just trying to try to find their footing, not really sure how what they studied in university was going to apply to the real world, and and did have a lot of debt that I wanted to pay off, so figured that was a good place to starting sales. Yeah, definitely is. It definitely is. And you know, oftentimes you see, I think more frequently, Sdrs that get promoted. The obvious path is to go be an AE, but I think more and more you're starting to see them go into marketing, into customer success, into you know, data sides whatever the other, you know, other fields might be, which is great. You have a lot of options. You don't as frequently see AEA's that have been successful for you know, multiple companies over multiple years make the turn over to marketing or specifically field marketing. So I'd love to hear you know what was kind of the impetus to that. Yeah, it is a rare switch and I definitely would be interested to see if anybody else has made it. But for myself it actually started with a coffee chat with our director of the man Jin. So we have this at Chili Piper where I think every week or every two weeks, you just get match up with somebody new. I got matched up with her and I remember at the time thinking like Oh, this is great. I think her linkedin was getting a lot more traction. I wanted to do a little bit more on Linkedin. I was like I'm going to ask her like all these questions, understand her her marketing plan, her playbook, all of this, and we hop on and it's the complete opposite. She wants to understand how I'm doing linkedin because she thinks I'm killing it. So I was like okay, this is this is interesting. So we kind of went back and forth, keeeked out and she realized I had a huge passion for marketing. I was like, Oh yeah, like outside of nine hundred and twenty five, like this is stuff I'd love to study, go on podcasts. Are Listen to podcast on round marketing and things like that, but never really thought that my skill set would be transferable to marketing. And I think after that call she's like, Oh, I'm going to talk to the VP sales. Maybe still ten to twenty percent of your time for some of these these activities that I have in mind of how we can use you. And then over the next I'd say three months, it pretty much just became a full on recruiting effort and there's like other departments in marketing being like Oh, no, no, I think he'd be a better fit in mine, and it got to the point where when I...

...finally made the decision, like yes, this is something I want to interview on and and kind of plead my case as to why how I think I'd make an impact in marketing more than I have in sales. Are CEO. By the time we talked he was like okay, so I don't know if you know this, but literally every marketing position that we have opened, your name has been brought up, like what do you want to do? So it was that's good internal branding right there. Seriously, right? Yeah, it was. It was cool. Other people were or fighting on my behalf and and it was interesting too, because I was still at this stage where I was like wow, why are they so sure I'm going to be a good marketer? Like, I think I've proven myself out in sales. Fun fact that I haven't shared with a lot of people I in my last month transitioning from from sales to marketing, I almost broke the monthly MRR record for close one revenue. So that was that was a pretty cool sign off. That was my last quote a month like that. Yeah, but yeah, it just felt like they they saw something in me and clearly what I was doing on Linkedin and they said, okay, I think we can use your skill set here in marketing. But we didn't really know what department it was going to be in and they knew I was like pretty active on social and in these communities and as luck would have it, the only guy I saw posting about field marketing was Nick Bennett. So I started messaging him and kind of letting him know, hey, by the way, my marketing teams kind of recruiting me. Tell me a little bit more about field marketing, because I think this might be a good fit for for my skill set and where we're at. So he told me a little bit more of like where he saw a field marketing progressing, and it really lined up to it. I think how he phrased it was like almost the quarterback of the sales team and you're really in the trenches with them, you understand the buyer, you're putting together different events or or ways to accelerate that revenue, and I was like perfect, I know sales, I don't know marketing as much, but maybe if we put me in this role like it would be easy to transition to. So that's where we kind of settled. But we always knew it wasn't necessarily traditional field marketing and that I still did have a lot of this community involvement. I've built up a good network. There's almost like an evangelist type of role because even as I was now infield marketing and looking to sponsor events, when we're looking for speaking opportunities, they would typically tell me, hey, we're looking for director level plus and somebody that knows how to sell Chili Piper, and not a lot of people at our company, believe it or not, are like able to do that. So that's where I kind of see this unique mix of skills and that technically what I'm doing is field marketing and doing that. But I think overall it's more of how do we put maybe Arthur in a position where he can describe the value of a Chili Piper and and get people to understand a little bit more of what we do? I kind of looked it out across the universal buyers journey where we start off unaware, then we go to where consideration, evaluation negotiation in sales. Ideally you're working on those last three stages right from consideration all the way through it to negotiation. But I think now the way I'm looking at my role is really almost creating a mini funnel from unaware to where. I think we have this this relevancy problem with Chili Piper, because every time I talked to somebody about chilipipes, I go yeah, we see you everywhere in these communities. You guys are like a scheduling tool or something right and that's where the the relevancy piece drops off, where they're kind of lumping us into this category. So that's kind of what I what I'm focused on here is like really trying to build out this mini funnel of getting people from unaware to where and how Chili Piper becomes a little bit more relevant. So now we went all over the place there, but yeah, that's kind of how the transition happened from a to field marketer. I gotta ask, how is that first month? Or were you on a monthly quote or quarterly quota? I was on a monthly quota. Well, how is that first month once you went into marketing and you didn't have a number hanging over your head for the first time in your career? Probably no good. It's it's that's it's a great question,...

...because I was looking for it. To believe it or not, I was definitely like, and I know below talks about this too, of like even psychologically it's not really lined up to motivate a sales rapp from maybe hitting quote of the the past month and first and month hits Hey, your zero. Now like what it what have you done from you this month? So it was really nice not to have that pressure. But, believe it or not, after that first month I felt lost without it. It was like how am I measuring my impact? And it was so immediate in the close one revenue, so it was like it was a brush breath of fresh air that first month. But after I was like how the heck am I measuring my impact to the the company's bottom line and Revenue? It was so easy to do as a sales rep and I realized like it almost created this urgency from month to month that slowly started shifting away when I when I switched over to marketing, because we didn't have that monthly quote an hour. We're still tied to revenue more on a quarterly basis, but it was definitely, definitely an interesting change because at first I was like this is going to be amazing and then at some point I felt lost without it. Yeah, so how did you, how did you make up for that? Like, I know it sounds like you have a quarterly number that you're trying to you know, revenue you trying to impact, or maybe pipeline, but how did you? How did you get yourself out of that and like maybe find other leading indicators or other like shorter term goals that can help keep you on track. Can there's kind of like that dopamine part two where you're like all right, by number for the quarters, a hundred K, you know, I'm I'm at a K, like I'm eighty percent, okay, like I it's very tangible. It's very like I know what I got to do to get there, whereas it have never been a marketer, but it feels a little less tangible sometimes. Some curious how you have broken that down? Yeah, I think at the beginning really there was no field marketing program so we didn't even have like baseline numbers to measure off. Anything I was doing was already adding towards like yes, we need somebody to do this. So I think that was maybe not as much as like the numbers, but I knew that there was a lot of building that needed to happen. So I wasn't necessarily going to time myself to like hey, how quickly am I going to see revenue impact in this new role? The other interesting piece that my manager actually called me out on was he he said I was really looking at this role through a sales mentality, and what he meant by that was that Dope Meine that. You just describe that glory feeling of closing a sale. I wanted to show ways in which I was impacting the funnel in this this role. So I would try and to like take credit for like hey, yeah, that was my ideal, like I source that, this and that, and he's like that's good that you're doing it. But you have to start thinking about your role a little differently. Your role is really to find out what works and test a bunch of these different things and once you find that, you pass it off to the right team for them to really go on and you're on to that next project. So it's not about hey, look at the impact Arthur's making, it's hey, he found something. How do I quickly scale this to the next team, whether it's strs or product feedback or whatever that is. So it's been an interesting change, man. I feel like really now, I think it's month seven or eight, I'm slowly starting to come into my role. I guess there is a ramping period. I was curious about that too, because I knew what sales a ramp look like, but I'm like, how do I know when I've officially ramped in marketing? And I don't know what it is, but at some point I just started feeling a little bit more confident in it may be, calling myself a marketer and making these decisions, whereas before I was like, I've no idea what I'm doing. So answer question, I think it was like more of an internal feeling over time, once we built out that playbook, I knew really what my money making activities were and really where I should where I could make the biggest difference and impact on that top of funnel, bottom of funnel pipeline for Chili...

Piper, and that's what I'm starting to like measure again. So it's more of these bigger bets that were placing in person dinners, creating this funnel between unaware to where and driving people to that. That, I guess, her more or less my north stars now and field marketing. Yeah, I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more for people that are either in this role or considering this role. Yeah, at first of all I feel like I'm pretty oblivious, but it feels like, you know, companies that I used to sell to. I used to sell to marketers that were in like the hardware or like more legacy like security type of companies, like they always had field marketing and it doesn't feel like a lot of SASS companies do, or maybe stass startups do, and so maybe someone's here in this insane oh shoot, like we could do this. And if that's the case, like I'm curious if you could share any any any of like the the past plays that you've ran or some of the first things that you tried, whether they worked or didn't, that helped to drive pipeline, like some of those Ab test that you've done. Yeah, I think at the beginning we kind of made the bet that we didn't have a big enough audience to really host a lot of our own events or webinars and things like that. So a lot of what I did, and this is now I'm starting to realize this is probably what they had planned the whole time, was using my community relationships and activating those communities or using my sales skills to actually establish co marketing initiatives with other companies that we thought had a similar ICP and we could go to market with. So a lot of the seven eight months that I've been been working here so far has been almost, in a sense, networking, because what I realized is, like I don't want to put myself up on stage every single time. That's going to be boring. I also don't want to create events in that we're just talking about how Great Chili Piper is and check out this feature here and there. I wanted to really address a problem and say this is what we're seeing in industry, this is the status quote, this is how people are handling it today and this is a potentially better way of how we could do that. And ideally, rather than us say it and say hey, we're Chili Piper employees, have our customers say that and and talk about the problems they were they were having before Chili Piper and maybe what that looks like now and what they're able to do. So a lot of it was simply like building relationships, which helped a lot with that sale skill set right of like I'm not afraid to reach out to someone and say, Hey, by the way, I'm seeing alignment here. Like would love to discuss come marketing initiatives, and that's something I've noticed here in marketing is like marketers love that, like they are so down to hop on a call and be like yeah, it's brainstorm like, think of this idea. That's funny. You like reached out to me. I was thinking about Chili Piper in this way. I want to share with you something. So they're very collaborative, but I think it's maybe taken that first step and saying hey, by the way, I love what you're doing, I would like love to do something here with you, and maybe that's the the prospecting skills right from sales. That to me it's it's like second nature. But I know and speaking with other marketers, are like how do you just approach people like that, like what do I have to offer? and to me it's like asking you shall receive. The worst they can say is a note. Right, are like, ignore your cool. I'm on to the next partner that I think could be a good fit. So that's more philosophically of like what we're doing. I think in terms of like Ab test, what we try to understand, as we've done a lot of community work, a lot of sponsored events, could we identify out of all of these communities, where we believe Chili Pipers icep fits and how much kind of revenue are we extracting from that community? So it's almost like let's try a bunch of these things up until now to really hone in on okay, it seems are our target buyer really sits in these three communities. How do we do more with those three communities compared to maybe some of the other initiatives we've we've invested them so in. It...

...also helps that you are in sales and you you know the ICP, you know who you're selling to, you know who the users are and you know you know. If you're an AE, you might go like a lot of a's, go to the same communities. Right. They go to the same you know, they're in the same slack groups. They are go to the same, you know, Thursday night sales or whatever. They listen to the same podcasts for the most part, and they know who, like, the major thought leaders are. Like everyone, you know everyone. Every salesperson follows, you know, Morgan Ingram and John Barrows and Sass like that's just a yeah, no one doesn't. So being an AE probably gave you a little bit of a head start and saying hey, that's who chili pipers users are. You know the you know the the buyers. Probably the VP of sales or whoever it might be, and you know who that is and you know where they live and that probably gives you a bit of a head start to get in there. You mentioned earlier that you know there's kind of like, I forget the terms use, but there's like the unaware to aware or whatever exactly that funnel, and that when people here Chili Piper, because you are everywhere, like I see you similarly to like what people say about you know, Gong is like yeah, I just see you guys freaking everywhere, and I feel like that is the same with you whenever I go on Linkedin for people that maybe have seen you and don't maybe know a Chili Piper. Does you want to just maybe give us a quick like rundown of what exactly the problems that you solve are? Yeah, yeah, and I actually want to circle back to what you said, like the ideal byers vp of sales, and this is what we went to market with, thinking sales was our buyer, and over time we realized they weren't maybe as open to the idea. So what we noticed when we were approaching sales leaders is they would look at their outbound and inbound pipelines, but relative to each other. So on outbound maybe they were converting one, two, three percent. Inbound they're converting at forty percent and they were saying, yeah, compared to outbound, this is way better. But this is really the biggest issue that I think Chili Piper solves in that. Okay, that's only forty percent of the people that have literally raised their hands and said yes, I want to demo or I want to speak to sales. You're missing out on fifty two, sixty percent of people that raise their hand. They never get to that first meeting. So we thought sales wanted to solve this problem, but again I think that relative how they looked at the inbound and what they were converting at compared to outbound, they were happy with it. So what happened was it was actually the marketer that became the champion for Chili Piper. I'm sure you've reread all these speed to lead. Hey, the Qicker you respond, the better experience we've also have seen like fifty percent of the time the vendor that responds first is who wins the deal. So simply by being first to that you can actually influence how that prospect maybe is going to look at this problem. On average, they do submit three demo requests every time they kind of go in bound to to check out a product. So you're going to have natural competition there just in terms of who they're scoping out. But I think one of the biggest competitions, I guess, that that marketing had was sales was kind of slow to the punch in terms of this is a hot lead. They've raised their hands. Maybe you didn't get routed in time. Maybe maybe a in BTB. I think now it's like forty two hours to average first contact to an inbound lead, which is just insane. It's like going to Ma all being like hey, I want to buy a pair of jeans and then somebody stands in front of being like that's great, come back two days from now. You have budget, like yeah, I do. Like what's going on in are like I just want to buy these pair of genes. So that's really the buying state of be to be today, where forty percent of only forty percent of inbound demo request get converted to first meeting. Meeting that you have a pretty big leaky funnel on. These are ideally people that have self qualified, self identified I know Gardner and forest are now saying like, by the time they requested a demo, they're more educated they than they ever have been. Right. They've maybe a scoped out the problem they have that buying...

...committee. They've looked out for budget, only for them to then request a demo and that first call is what and asked. You are being like hey, by the way, are you the Authority on this? Do you have budget? What's your timeline? It's like, come on, I'm so further down funnel that this can't be my first experience. We've noticed is there's so much resistance at that top of funnel for people that want to check out your product or maybe even buy from you. But we're putting so many gates in front, maybe the over segmentation of sales that were really making it hard for them to buy. And as much as they like your product, as much as they've read Gong's data, they're not going to jump through hoops just to buy it. So I think that's the the biggest problem we solve here at Chili Piper. And we went to market. Think it was a sales is going to love this, but it was actually the marketer being like I think our conversion rates are tanking because we're not getting to that buyer quick enough. I love it. I'm a proud user. Think I said before we started, know a lot of folks over a Chili Pepper and have a lot of respect and love the product. So this is not a pitch, it's not a Paidad, it's just under given some love where it's do our th. I'd love to switch gears for a little bit and have you I saw some some linkedin posts and whatnot about a new project you're working on called revenue era. Think it's you and Nick Bennett and maybe there's others involved. I'd say I know probably like one sentence worth of what it is, but I'd love for you to to kind of break down what it is that you guys are working on. Yeah, absolutely, I think maybe it maybe to stick with the story, I can give a little context and to how how it came about. So part of the reason why I wanted to well, obviously my company self identified my skill set a marketing, but I think I did always have aspirations to switch over and have been religiously listening to guys like Chris Walker and how they see the state of be to be and I think with the rise of communities, like revenue era, like pavilion, and even the way people are using linkedin today, I'd say like six, seven years ago, is pretty much a digital resume and I would only sign on if I want it to if I was looking for a job. Now it's actually a community of peers. I can message people, I can say, Tom I saw you had a hundred, forty percent quotea last year, like what the heck was your playbook? And we can actually have an exchange of valuable exchange. Maybe even in that exchange you tell me, hey, these three tools help me so much at achieving that, and I didn't even know about that. A lot of the buyer journey is actually starting in these communities, in peers. That's the first step. We're going to look before we would even search google. So I think like the evolution of how people are buying is really starting to change, especially with the rise of communities and having access to your peers. I'm trusting you more and saying hey, I'm coming across this challenge, how have you done it? From there, I'm getting my short list moving into it. So I noticed this and I thought, okay, in five years time as a sales rep. if these conversations are going to be going on in communities, amongst peers, how do I somehow bring value to that rather than being like, Oh, we solve that problem at Chili Piper? How do I say hey, that's really interesting, I know somebody else that came across that and I'm just becoming a valued member and I realize if that's how people are now starting to look at solving problems, I can't helpbound isn't going to be as effective. We've seen the declining rates of outbound as well and I think eventually we're going to get to point where, like, I don't want to say it's never going to work, but a sales team is pretty expensive to manage right and we really do have to look at like, okay, if we're investing more in that, what's the what's the outcome? So I think what I what I saw, and I think guys like Chris Walker would say as well, as marketing now is going to have more of an impact in terms of getting people into that buying stage and getting them from unaware to aware and thinking about the status call and saying maybe there is a better way to do this and as I as I mentioned to you earlier,...

...part of as I was discussing this this switch was reaching out to Nick Bennett, who I consider the Godfather a field marketing and and just talking through what I'm what I'm seeing. So we started to develop a relationship there and it led to US meeting, I think monthly or something like that, and we would always talk about kind of what we're talking about here, the rise of communities. Nick happened to have a monthly field marketing meet up. That was so useful to me in like those initial months of like what the heck are other field marketers working on? And he happened to mention to me that the person he was working on it with they got a job for like a BC company and they no longer can help out with that. So I'm starting to think, okay, there's there's an opportunity there, and we're just talking about like communities and personal brands and how to monetize that. And we got to point where, like man, we know, there's his field marketing meet up wasn't necessarily there. There's another field marketing slack group that apparently even the founders weren't actively engaged in and we're like maybe there's an opportunity for us to kind of move into the space, maybe not necessarily for field marketers, but this new age of marketers that we know driving leads isn't enough. We really have to start driving revenue and if we're going to work on that sales and marketing alignment, you have to be tied to the same Kepis and we can't just give sales a bunch of BS. So it really started through that conversation and we're saying like, is there a space for for marketers that are tied to revenue? It's actually share amongst each other some of the playbooks they're using, what they're working on, some of the challenges, and really that's kind of how it how it happened. I think I was like, Nick, I love this Lemmia, let me come up with some ideas. I'm going to send it to you over the weekend, and he was like, dude, this is awesome. Let's let's launch a community. And Yeah, we got Joel Premac in there as well and we've only really done a soft launch so far, but it's been amazing to see the need for something like this. I think we had over two hundred and fifty markers apply. We've already posted a hundred job boards of people looking for revenue marketing rules and we haven't really officially opened the slack community yet. So that is that is coming down the line. But that's, I guess, for myself how I saw the future of revenue and maybe marketing having a little bit more influence on that buyers journey. And then happen to come across guys like Nick and Joel that we're on that same wavelength and we said, hey, how do we create a community for other people, knowing that this is going to be the future of marketing and get people away from Mt Wels and leads and actually driving revenue? Yeah, I love it. So there. So it sounds like there's like an application process and then soon to be a slack group. Are you playing do other things, like anything events or any other types of content, or what's kind of the vision for for it all? Yeah, I I love all those things you mentioned. We definitely do want to get down to a point and what's nice is that you can kind of see, especially in this past this past year, switching over to marketing being a part of some of these communities, what you like and what you don't like, and I think just creating spaces for peers to discuss some of the challenge jages they have. We're definitely going to bring back like a monthly meet up where people can show and tell like things are working on or bring up challenges. I know in field marketing specifically, that was a huge shift, because you did mention earlier like traditionally it is very boots on the ground. Now, this past two and two years in a bit, like everything has had transformed to digital. So even giving marketers more AMMO, more ideas of Hay, this transition is happening. How do we get ahead of the curve? So, yeah,...

...monthly meetups. We were bringing in some cool perks for our members to really kind of learn about from the best of the best abm courses, different things like that. So yeah, I think monthly meetups, hopefully once things start getting better in person, and I really do like the one to one. I think what a lot of these communities I'm super grateful for, for communities like Pavilion, is finding a mentor. I think it's like it really is a career hack to find a mentor. So hopefully finding ways in which we can pair members up and have some of the more senior ones kind of bring along the upandcomers and maybe they learn nothing or two along the way. But that's how we're really looking at just creating a space for people and and maybe hosting a little bit more intimate events where we can actually have a good knowledge share amongst members. I love it. I love it, Arthur. I want to get to our last pc or, which is going to be a couple of rapid fire questions. All right, let's do it. Let's do it. All right. So you mentioned earlier you would you would spend a lot of time while you're in sales, you'd spend time outside the nine hundred and twenty five, you know, studying marketing and things like that. We're big learners on the POD here here. is any books that have been game changers for you? They could be business or marketing related, they could be a completely other genre, but anything stand out to you? The one of the most recent ones I read by sang rum over at terminus, the move framework. That was so fascinating to me and I think like that is really a peek into aligning all of the revenue engine, from marketing to sales to CS. He laid out like frameworks and how to go about that. Definitely a must read for, I think anybody in a revenue role love it. He puts out great I mean he's been a thought leader for a long time over there. Yeah, yeah, that's a great one. How about podcasts? Youtube? People you fall on, linkedin newsletters, whatever you like, whatever, I guess, format you like to learn in outside of books. Like any people or things stand out from there? Yeah, I think the guy that I really am making a ton of time to love the insights, try to tend his Tuesday night demand gend live and listen as podcast is Chris Walker. I really do believe he's probably the best in the game right now when it comes to marketing and and getting a lot of these companies to think differently. He was a pretty big inspiration and how I was looking at the sales to to marketing switch and understanding that, Hey, marketing can actually have more of an impact than people realize. So yeah, cannot recommend him enough. Awesome. What's going on in the Arthur casillo headphones on spotify or apple music or ever you listen to tunes what's playing? Dude? I'll tell you what. I was kind of listening to get pumped up for this. I was listening to you and be by flume. I don't know, like I it's an older song, but I was just like, man, really vibe into it. Huge Fan of J Cole. I think anything jake hole touches is just incredible. Yeah, so those are those are the couple things that come to mind. Did you see the mini? Speaking of marketing, did you see the mini like documentary that he put out before his last album? No, dude, are you kidding me? You I've gotta have to go check it out, like right after this. It's like, I don't know, it's Shure. It's like twenty minutes maybe on Youtube, and it's like it shows, you know, the process of him writing the album. You know where he's like kind of he feels like he's in a rud and then he's like, you know, he's down, you know, in the studio at his house and he's shooting hoops because he's a big basketball players. Like got all this stuff. It's great. It like it was kind of like a pump up if you're if you're int any sort of like creative work it was. I really enjoyed it. Oh Man, definitely gonna add a have to watch it today, so thank you for recommending that. You got to check that one out. All right. Cool, so we got those mapped out. What's your number one networking tip? Number one networking tip is asking...

...you shall receive. I don't think people have even understood the power of Linkedin. I've spoken to authors of books I read and I never would have thought I would have like a one one conversation. In fact, I'm now that I'm in marketing, I'm potentially even looking to do business with them. So I think it's always so fascinating to me, an upandcomer in the industry, if you will, of like when I reach out to these people, how available they're making themselves to be and they really do want to help you out. So I think people really put a huge barrier and saying like why would that person ever talk to me or why would they even respond? I'm just getting start on Linkedin. Maybe I have five hundred followers, like I'm a nobody, but I think if you surround yourself with the right people and you make a clear as to why you're reaching out, there's a lot of people out there that that want to help, so ask and you shall receive. Definitely go out and message someone, someone you've been meaning the message, and I think you'll be happy, happily surprised. Shoot or shoot. There you go, as they say. I'm my last question for you, Arthur. Who would you want to see come on the pavilion podcast next? Oh, that's a good one. I don't want to give a big name because I'm sure they've probably already been on the list, so I'll try and think of some other upandcommers. Bryan SCALARA amazing. I don't know if he's been on the podcast. That guy's crazy good. Jacob Grever Wald come to mind. Alex and Moodwar pounter of women in sales, and strategic a at Alice. Those are all people that I learned a ton from in sales and I still continue to learn a ton from in marketing. So I don't know if they've been on the podcast, but I think those of you some awesome guest for you to host. I've had. I've had Ryan and Alexeine actually on my my podcast, millennial SYC. I don't know Jacob. I don't think any of the three have been on this one, though. So those are all all great recommendations. Appreciate it. You know, I had to get you on that referral at the end of the day, of course. Of course. So I Arthur, I appreciate you coming on. Excited to hear about everything that's going on with you, with Jilie Piper, with revenue era. If folks want to learn more about all the different stuff that you've got cooking, what's the best place for them to do that? I think the the best place is where really the the journey started on Linkedin. Pretty active there and as we really start to release and open up our revenue are community, definitely catch me there and for all you revenue marketers listening to it, please apply. I would love to to hear your feedback on that. But linked it is definitely the best bet people take the what is it? Do you have a price? Is there what's the price? Ten ten bucks or something, or twenty bucks or how are you pricing this up for revenue era? Yeah, it's free to join. Invite only, though, so we have free to join people. It's free to join. I should I should have known that going in. That's crazy. I thought you'd be charged something per month. That's that's that no brainer. So everyone definitely go check y Arthur up on Linkedin, apply for the revenue our check it out. Him and Nick Bennett both will be cooking up some great stuff, so I want to give that plug. But Arthur, thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. Thomas, been a pleasure. Man, you're a greater interview thank you all. Thanks for listening. That episode was brought to you by Sindoso. They are redefining the way businesses inspire human connections by offering an intelligent gifting experience with a global fulfillment infrastructure, highly curated premium vendors, deep analytics and personalization at scale. Thanks for listening. Check me out on Linkedin. My name is Tomalemo. Until next week, let's keep getting after it. Thank God it's Monday. Peace.

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