The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

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Ep 20: Selling Your Company and Starting anew During a Pandemic feat Al Torres

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Ep 20: Selling Your Company and Starting anew During a Pandemic feat Al Torres

I A'm welcome to the revenue collectivepodcast, I'n Casy Lite, Gordon Your House. Today's episode with Al Torres,the Vice President of revenue and partnerships, fursueable, is brought toyou VI. Sindoso Sinnoso. The leading sending platform is the most effectiveway for revenue, generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage atstrategic points throughout the customer journey. By connecting digitaland physical strategies, companies can engage, require and retain customerseasier than ever before. Thank you, Sindoso and, let's jump in without all right crew, hello, revenue,collective. This is Casey. Let Gordon as SAM has dubved me K. L G, your newhouse for the revenue, collective podcast. I am excited to sit down todaywith my guest Al Torez. Aw is the current vice president of Ritenuw andpartnerships at Seyable, a global research platform for testing consumerimpact for creative ads, and while we will talk about suayable and and a'sjourney, distarting, a new dig in the midst of a Pandemac we're going tostart a little earlier, an Ou story of when he he found it in Sol the companyduring a pandemic. So, for any of you living that sort of life that found herlife and adjusting to the world in and remote and impendimic life, I thinkthiswill be an interesting talk. Ow. Thank you for joining me today. CASpleasure, pleasure t be here with you today really excited to have thisconversation me to me too, and so Ayou and I met you and I met a couple omonths ago, and it's been interesting through my transition of of leaving afull time job and and taking some time off, and then you taking some time offgoing into a fulltime GIG. So it's it's been interesting parallel and I've.I've so enjoyed any of our conversations. We've had over the pastcouple months and and getting to know each other yeah. It's been a pleasure.It really has, and this twenty twenty's been an interesting year, to say theleast. I think a little bit crazy and unpredictable across the board. So youknow the the craziness kind of stories individually continue, but I tinkmine's, probably somewhat unique and last minute I was the founder of acompany called summit. Sink Thay sells enablement software from marketers, soreally what we were was the ability to track event R Y for meetings at traidshows and conferences. We had started the business about five plus years ago.I coed fond her myself and wead gone through kind of all the trials andtribulations of a start up, so you Kno, I would say once a year we thought thatwe wouldn't be able o ethe do a fund raise or we weren't going to get paidon time in order to be payroll or that you know we, the systems were Ointo, beable to hit a certain deadline for a certain client, so throughout thosestressful kind of five and a half years by the end of by mid of last year, wereally started anning orstrod and we had acquired a lot of enterprisebusiness. IVILY companies like an Amazon, docky signs potify, and we werereally kind of hitting our our our headway there and we decided you know w. We were in the midst ofdeciding whether we go and raised a series b round the funding. We had donesix point: Six Million Tho a series day at that Polet, or should we look at apotential acquisition since we had already kind of goten some some lightinterest and so midtw nineteen was gind o an interesting tipping point for USyeah. I I love that, so let's dig and do a little bit o this year. So fiveyears ago you and your business partner start this business and see you know:Sea Growth you've gone through ceries a you're coming into late, twentynineteen right you're hitting your stride. Winning these big accounts. Ithink any of those names would make any organization much less a start uppretty happy. You know that the Amazons, the spot iffies of the world- that'spretty incredible soten. Was it a...

...matter of of just your own? You knowbuilding companies exhausting, certainly five years in a company. Wasit your own journey? That said, let's start looking at what the next optionis of whether it's selling or acquiring or were there other factors that playand- and I think you know, we can certainly dig into to what those looklike. In a start up world yeah for sure it was a little bit of combination ofeverything right so throughout. I think when you start the business there's,maybe the t, the massively optimistic internal viewpoint that you know oneday this is going to grow into a billion dollar business and maybe gopublic if you, if you're going to have that general thought of being youshooting for the stars, but you know when you're really starting, you starttaking evests of money. You realize theyre, there kind of really aren toobtos an potentially going to public one day if you grow to that level, butmore likely in today's world of a technology start f. At leastacquisition is probably the more you know realistic option. Arguably youknow just running a small business that has a normal drojectory of growth. Itis a possibility, but if you take money typically, that investment comes withyouknow speeding, agility to get a higher return of that money. So if youtake investment likely an acquisition is, is probably one of your main kindof targets at some point down the Road Su. We knew that we knew that toconversation wit mentors with our investors, we pied and taking money,and so we knew that at some point down the road. That was something that wewould likely couldn't kind of consider, and the question is always: When you doyou have enough pribve market FID. Do you have enough revenue to to showinterest? Do you have enough strategic value? Have you built the right teakind of all the different reasons why someone, a larger business will buy asmaller business? You know revenue is one of the key ones and probably one ofyour main metrics. But it's it's toally, not the only one right. It's a reselevel of innovation. The technology is, you know, acquisition for talent, theway of thinking about something where your product, that arguadly could be inferior to a larger product, but it'sstill taking marketshare because of it's approach or the way that it'sbuilt or or some other reason. So we always had that in the backround mind,that acquisition was a likely option for us. What twenty nineteem brought was iinmore of the kind of the the story. You know blogsor podcast that you hear about how alinment with investors started to cuta diverge and when we were looking to understand whether we wanted tocontinue fund raising or look at an acquisition dealing with some of our investors thathad some discrepancies of the way that we looked at the world. The way that wewanted to kind of fund raise going forward for the success of the businessstart to miss a line, and luckily my parte and I had enough ownership on thebusiness where we were still kind of able to steer it in the direction thatwe wanted for the most part. And so we started to say: Hey L T, let's look atwhat an acquisition really looked like, so we went out to the market. I wn. I want to ask the question realquick before we we get into thes story of what was next. I want to understandand as you're able to share right, I recognize that they're Synsia always,but can you share anything about that misalliment and what that journey waslike when you started to realize it? How you and your partner had thoseconversations I mean this is right. This is like your blood sweating tearsinto building your company and I'm sure it was emotional. It was personal asmuch as it was business and so curious of what that felt like on the otherside yeah it was. It was all those things you know when you, when you talk aboutMisallinment, I think there is some peoplell say that you know all money'sgreen and if it's on your terms, that might be the case, but if it's onanyone else's terms which usually for a start up, that's taking ovessantdollars, it's typically not who you go into business with matters.You know a lot, and so...

...you know where I think we we did not.We had heard for some of them. We had a lot of investors, we afrom angels tofamily offices, Di Professional Dces, who all have different incentives.Right of what they're, trying to acheate they'll have their business andtheir goals, and I think where you know early on when you're like hey, I needmoney to pay for the payrold to continue moving because e say clen hastha sixty or ninety day. You know payment terms or something like that.So Castle is always an issue to start up. You kind of look and say: listen, tthe the money well matter, the terms matter, less f. If I don't exist, I solet me just take the money. We can figure that out later. Well, I thinksome of that is understanding kind of who your partners are bringing on theright investors, because they will be with you through the rest of it for themost part right and whether that's five seven ten years and so againunderstanding doing your due diligence. You know we had done some. We hadprobably heard some stories that probably should ave kinsuate us awayfrom taking some of the money from some investors, but at the time it justseemed like the easier row. argubly seem like better terms, and I thinkThi's also kind of shows why you need good lawyers and you know, and goodmentors and advisors on. So you know we didn't go into any of it blindly, butwe probably were a little naive of assuming that you know those storieswere one of us and wouldn't happen to us. Orono lesson learn there is if, if there's the stories, thefeelings, the inklings pay attention to them, that that's one who o some of it-I mean. Don't you think some of it's probably just experience like I don'tknow, maybe you would do things differently today, but to your point.Cash flow teams opportunity growth all of those things they they are things that you had torespond to and and you know have as a catalyst, and so I the hindsight's,always twenty twenty, but but sometimes I think it's part of your experience.So the next venture you you do if, if you choose to be a founder again, I Iknow that sometimes it takes some years of recovery T to want to get Bak inswith that. But you know that's. That's the benefitof having a cerial sound or ride is that's what investors begin to lovebecause you you've been there and done that so your own sophistication- and Idon't know if this was your first- you know Foranda, entre, Brenership or orbeing a founder, but some of it t' it's kind of the bumps and bruises like thebattle scars along the way yeah one hundred percent, it is Um. The experience is unparalleled. I meanI, I wouldn't change those five years Um. I learned more in those five yearsthat I probably would have taken me forty and still not have learned it asan outsider and yeah there there's something to be said about goingthrough it right. You understand, you know the nuances, ability ofbusiness, Cratya, culture, H, understanding and adult technology, soI was definitely my first fora into a technology start up and go to market strategy right how theproduct fits into. You know an enterprise versus the bid market, VersuANDB, the nuances, the way technologyis consumed today or even five years ago,versus what it was ten fifteen years ago, understanding procedures withinenterprise procurement, and so you know we all touch on those. But if youworked for large organizations, those were kind of things you arguably didn'teither you didn't deal with day today, Wer, it was kind of like a secondthought. Has E start up. Those are all things that must come into yourstrategy because they will affect the timing of everything, the execution andso going through from the beginning and UH. It's an experience. I just can'tcarefully repricated hat you can read all the books and Hiy can give you goodinsight as the things that you you know know that you don't know like the knownunknown yea, but it is also why people you knowbring on advisors and bring on mentors, and I would say that was one of thethings that we were very lucky to have. Is that for the most part, although we were you know some things, we thought weknew and we were wrong. Other things we were aware of and consciously decide to osomething different and sometimes I...

...work. Sometimes it didn't, but we veryseldom Wenin completely blind with no information, and that was because wehad a good. You know a good mentor advisor team along with us who had donethis in several instances and it talked about hey. You know. If you take oncertain terns now, th y those things could bite you three years o now and wehad probably said at the time of three years, O know who who knows where theworld is it's fine, otre years three years later, we're like shit. Weshouldn't have udntrn that tew years ago, so you know you do you live? You learnyou kind of, I would say, you're Kindo, like the teenager, ouow, your parents,tell you like be careful. This could happen and you're like. Oh, it's notgoing to happen to me and then I have to see her like crap parents are right,that's kind of what the startup is with the advisors t. They give you someadvice because they've seen it happen, you know more often than not, and everyou know. Sometimes you get lucky and it's not the case, but but more oftenthan not theyre they're, probably on the right side of the of the result. ND.So that's how I would kind o talk about starin start to like teenagers, andhopefully you 're able to kind of grow out of that that phase and todal adultshood with good parents. I I love that analogy, I'm I'M! You know cracking upat that thinking about just all these rebellious teenagers and then theadviser parents tetting there shaking their head and back in my day, that's exactly exactly Al Right. So tell me, so I I'mfascinated anytime. Anybody goes through an experience like this to yourpoint. You can read all the books, but I mean that's one of the reasons I lovethis potcast is you're. Hearing such human stories tell me, you know if youcan senthesize it down into one, maybe two points: what's the the best thingyou learn during that experience, then then Wi'll get into you know withacquisition, and all that looks like. But what's the best thing you learnedand then maybe the most painful thing you learned could still be a good thing,Bu, but painful to learn it yeah. So t the best t n we learned about theSARP was that in my mind, culture of the team is thenumber ane factor of success and that the culture likely will have to changeovertime. Obviously, Yo know when you're two three person company to atwenty twenty five percent company, which is where we ware towards the end,is, is very different and so the the culture that you define the vision thatyou have as as the founders and leaders. That is one of the biggest reasons.People join a start up and so being very clear, concise consistent amongstthat vision to create that certain type of culture that you want to have, Ithink, is one of the most critical elements to to success and to kind ofbattle through the inevitable obstacles that you will have and wheneveryone isalined you're able to kind of come together kind of get through that Ivery much look at is like a sports team. When everyone's kind of on the samemission, yeah people figure out their roles, they help out where they canit's truly a team effort and, and that type of culture, of we're all in thesame mission. We all have the same kind of goals. We all have our roles withinnat to get to achieve that. It's really the only way to Kindo be successful inregards to one of the biggest painpoints, I think was well actuallygive you two and there were probably a lot more than two, but there weredefrite two, which was from the investment side, was takingmoney from people that you really want to work with, and you trust that wasnumber one and that would be across the board. Even if a men raising less mine and then I think the other thing was having a little bit of patience,especially around the product where you Kn, we were giving my background is insales yea. We were always selling ahead, but understanding if you're buildingtechnology, that there is a new once and procedure and processed doing so,and so not trying to sell too far ahead, because there were times where you knowwe overpromised under delivered, and you always wantd to do the opposite.And so you know, patience,...

...unfortunately, is is a lot ofsenspeople. Don't have, and it's probably one of the keep things youneed and e start up, because things will break. It takes time to buildthings and you cano thing soonly happen so fast, so those are probably th theones that g generally always stick out. I I think, there's so muchintercanactivity between the best things, who learned and and maybe thepainful things because rid a team should should bring different things,sales. It should be persistent, they should be growth hungry. They should bethinking ahead, but to be able to have whether it's you know another founderon board or team members that can balance that patience. That can bethinking about. You know not just the immediacy of taking dollars by the longterm, trust, N and relationship, and so I'm curious within your foundingpartnership or maybe even early stage team. Did you find that you personallyhad to emulate a lot of those those maybe competing values, or were youable to have multiple people in your team playing those roles? Yeah, so werealized was that we needed to play those roles as founders. You know it' or requirement that you play them 'cause, otherwise it it can feel you know disingenuous, and soyou needd to kind of portray that and believe that and live that all the timeand the key was, though, as you're busy and whether it be fun raising or doingsales calls or traveling. When travel was the o thing, we did. What W I dt I'me done it a long time, but when I knew it, I remember used todo it and when I uh you know when you're kind of gone or out of theoffice or in meetings you do need to have a tean that will emulate that, foryou right and so hiring the right leadership was a key factor. I wouldsay that was one of the interesting things that we started to do later on,where you know at the level that we were at,which was, you know, very small team. For All the purposes was we we lookedthat people who had worked at starts for as a a a kemetric. You know outside of aresume, because you know we had done the I'd say early mistake of hiring ona on a resume alone, meaning that theyhad, you know, had great schooling that come from a big name company. They werein the industry. If you looked at the resume, anyone any outside would lookand say this is impressive. This person should be successful, there's no doubt,and it was the complete opposite right, because they hadn't been or understoodthe nuances of being ale to start up and what it required, and so what wefound was. Obviously those things are important, but the ability to you know work at a start. It requiresyou to get into the weeds to be self sufficient to. You know learn things onyour own, because you don't have the resources, you don't have necessarity bhe experts in the room with you allthe time, and you know that was one of the things that we started to look forwhen we were hiring Um and that that worked out super well for us, becauseobviously we still looke for cetain skill sets but skillsets that hadworked at a start up or had you know done it, maybe within a certain amountof time, so they knew what they were getting into, because I think theexpectations that other people have. I Serbs are all cool and fun and thatthey're, you know they all have great lunches-and you know snacks and all that kind of stuff- and you know most tutups- arenot Google or facebooking. Even if you fel Hem. I don't think H. I that Buckinnow, but even at the time rains row. So that was one of the kyomands that froma Hirin culture perspective that we really looked for. That was a key, aKielman and then the other thing was obviously we really focusd onlikeinterns to kind of really evaluate people, and that was actuallysuperhelpful 'cause. We did find, though, that a lot of you know young people out of college had a bigthirst, for you know doing things on their ownlearning on their own. I think this kind of concept of remote work orremote learning, Ou ow way for startups is, is a big plus because people arekind of you know used to selflearning n...

...so, but we did't notice was that youknow the those kind of coming graduating from colleges had a addedPrey: robus thirst for for start up to a good kind of acclamation to to Gettininto the weeds and everything. So you know that was kind of an ithing wherewe were able to promote a bunch of our kind of young interns who went frominturn to cordinator to a manager and Kindo grow throughout the business andtake on different roles, so that was also kind of a successful model for us. I love that we could probably have anentire other session around. You know talent, strategies and a start up andand how you do that High Beld team? How what does culture look like and I'llhold you to it on a follow? Opsession, OK, so we're five years in you and yourpartner have taken investment. Some investment that you know sounds likefrom painful lessons. Learn, maybe not not always a lined, or you know, t ethe dollars, weren't green, to use your words you're in two four twentd andnineteen. You say: Okay, let's look at our different options. Right, we maybego out for a series B. We look at possible acquibers. We look at just different different avenues anddecide what's best for the company at the stage, and so take me. Take methrough O thousand yd nineteen, two four yeah, so it actually pobalystarted in Q, three of twenty nineteen, where we were kind of contemplating. Wehad goten approache with some interest. Oh, you know, partnerships that I wouldsay you know, look that made a lot more sense more as acquisitions, but youknow t the approach was more of that and you know we were. We knew that wehad a good runway into the the first half of twenty twenty and you know youobviously want to try and raise money before you're out of it, so that thattakes time an tgeally speaking we'll take kind of three to six months, so weknew we had to kind of start soon. If that was going to be the case, then youknow some investor drama and sued and we, we said, listen to the reality thatyou kN W an acquisitionis going to be the best method to cause resolve thisversus Kindo Bringg, more people into the into the bubble. So we said, let's seewhat this looks like in luck with my partand, I had enough enough control ofthe business for the most part to kind of to move the needle there, and youknow we went out to the market. We put ourselves caps on and said, let's seewhat we can do in N, relative be Short Dura the time 'cause. This was rightaround tha M end of October and twenty nineteen had a you know new years andChristmas at fell right right in the middle of the week, so that was twoweeks in desemmer. It was pretty much gone, so we had a bou T, I six weekwindow going into the New Year that we knew we needd to to kind make somethings happen, and so we ended up having about thirty conversationsbasically November and early December Antili fails people that manage to havethirty net new conversations in November and December so Kudo's there.Thank you yeah. We I I have to say it was probably one of my most aggressivesells out reaches n quite some time, even with the business, but you knowthe death of the business or success fil, the business variety on you. U Cankind of force you to figure things out, horly Um, but we had thoseconversations and- and they were all you know some some very large playersto to mork medium company to se Priminequity, and we dindle that downto those that were more serious, we had bout turnof them divingto the dataroomtowards the end of December into the new year. By mid January, we ended uphaving three offers and two of them were heavier nounts but but strongoffers, and then one was in Alcastio. Now you know interesting when you, Ithink you look at things you would say, were an a great dejectory. You ow we'vesigned some big name, clients we we're probably in the best position we'veever been. You know hitting some of these numbers were aggressive as asintended by the acquirer, but things that I we think we could all hit ifthey stayed the way they were and what was interesting was that my backgroundisn't finance par in sales, and you...

...know I just felt like the market.Hadn't had a turn ten years and the first things that tipially a cut aretny marketing events and we said, listen that that environment, which,after a tenyear bull run, is likely to happen at some point soon and probablymore likely in the next two years. You know this: hawl Cash Teal's still agood deal right. It maybe doesn't look at's Goin Papor over two years, but itit's a good deal. Everyone gets jobs. Most of you know. Investors are goingto be happy and this is a good win right. It's likeany a double in baseball versus, maybe the home run yea w doubls guaranteedthe you know the home run. Is You know twenty five percent chance? Let's say, and we said you know what we've seentoo many instans, where people get too greedy and in the long run it justdoesn't work out. Let's lets ust take the wind, and we took that deal we feltlike et was a really good alignment. They woent enden up being with Bistaaquity partners B, s c vent, whoas, the largest event management software inthe world, so everyone they took the entire team, my cofine Andand, Idecided and kind of early negotiations that you know. We didn't necessarilyfeel that we wanted to got to go over a full time and they they understood thatto say they were Super Gracious and understanding they've done like sixtyacquisitions in the last like five years, so they were viting, prettyadept as the understanding kind of personalities and founders being in adifferent kind of mental state. But we we negotiate up an so a transitionperiod to kindto help them move everything over and to intresting tothe team, and we did that, but they wanted a quick clothes and we were finewith that and they wanted a three week- clothes. Itwas probably of the five years. Those three weeks were probably the moststressful because dealing with lawyers everyday about documents. What thedoctents say ND, don't say. I think. Every day I thought like. Oh, we didn'tinclude some statement like this is going to kill the deal. We're doneabout three weeks went by and February twentieth, we officially closed, and Ican tell you that both in our minds and probably the general conversation inthe office had zero of Zero Word Covet attached to it at all and about tendays later that completely changed, and we were talking about not coming intothe office for a period of time and about thirteen days later, like theworld had changed, and so you know you go back and look aboutrunning things down to the wire you K, ow. We we could not have cut it anycloser, so Um, yeah whic would ot be a good one. Yeahimean that's insane, like the fat wine thereso many pieces about this. When you win these deals with companiesthat any of US listening would be, you know, mind blown to do business withright. Then you say: okay, IT'S IT'S! Probably the emotional journey ofinvestor drama. To use your word aggressive sales. Kick you guys. Youknow that speaks to it to the talent there, both of the product that you hadas well as your own abilities to tee up all these meetings get tenopportunities on the table to Wendle it down to three t one: You negotiate,this del Coveit happens and you still sell and by the way this is an eventtracking, an ry platform like how did you process this like comingoff of this right? Now, it's it's up to we're almost in October, when thisAiris Ol be October. What is the six months ban post acquisition for you? Imean what did you do to to really process this? How is the company doingtoday and then howhow? Have you RESA and and kind ofregrounded after going through? What I imagine to your point was, like youknow, five years over three months or whatever it was yeah. No, I mean I cansay that my Parton, I probably three weeks into into the sale or theofficial clothes, basically said to ourselves that we are the luckiestpeople in the world right now, liand...

...after that AIA yeah, we T- I think Idid actually, but we definitely tiught in went on that one, but we uh. Wedefinitely ye realized that Um man, when they say Timy, is everything.Timing is everything, and so we said it. We said we were just verylucky t it better to be Luckin and good. You know it wasn't something thathappened overnight. We put a lot of time in effort to get where to makethat happen and to get into a good place. I mean you know, I would say:There's no doubt that we would either have been out of business or truly atthe firesale, the business you know had things been delayed, you know a month,so we cran a weekor week, yeah, basically weak. It would have been likewell, let's see what happens with this thing coming from China and itwentmiing at's not to teal so yeah. It was one of those we felt very lucky,but it almost in a weird way. It felt like those five years of the hard workand everything to push it and push ourselves in toward the end of twentnineteen, to make something happen to go to get through the investor drama,to put our team into a good place, andto a good home to kind of get thatwin that all the that effort and the speed and urgency that we did it. Youknow ended up paying off and obviously something that we could e never haveanticipated or planned for. But I think that's why you know you push as hard asyou can as fast as you can 'cause you just you never know an that. That's avery good example of it. But since then you know, I took a little time off,took a few mos a little time. Like I'm doing my sobatical now I want you totell me what's a little time. My little time was probably about two months I couldn't commind. I Haven' I had a DAwel he's still two but he' l over two. Now I had a two year old, so it wasgreat to kind of spend some time with him and Y o. We were quaantined anywayand so wel it was. It was a in a weird way. It was a goodquarantine for US 'cause. It was just you know, family time, and then therewas no kind of work. I didn't really have to work from home or any of thatkind. Oftsoit was in odd timing of a nice little break across the board. Butafter about two months I started getting itching and and trying to dostuff and figure out kind of what was next and and figured that the pendamicwouldn't make things any easier, and you know, and I'm one that always lovesto learn and continue learning. So you know I I hav done some Advisr work inthe past and decided to continue to do that, so it took on about four or fiveclients, most of them around a series. Aroundo funding check companies andhelping them around to go to market strategy General Advisien across m. Youknow investment and structure and then also we had gone through an acceleratorcalled H, entrepreneur's round table accelerator era, N New York, which is agreat experience for us, and so I became Um an acpern residence there,helping across some of their classes that come through around similar type. Things so wasdoing that for a number of months and then cross those introductions frominvestors and other people that I just knew. I endedup getting introduced to the founder of swaable he's a physicist former had aglobal digital product for the New York Times and ll casual yeah, Casaland Deo.He you know he was an interesting, interesting guy he's Australian, whichthe action lways got. She Ou kind of listen in a little more. What they'retalking about and th N. I was intrigued what they were buildingyou now. My background is inthe marketing mediate space prior to cut othe start up and most of the the tech started platforms. There had been in,like the media distribution world, that world's been kindo hit, hard, fror,lower, valuations, harder, emia or it just been kind of a harder world overthe last pwobaby five to ten years to to quote unquote, be successful or havea successful kind of outcome, but what I found that they were taking ot of avery different approach when they were...

...focusing much more on the creative sideof marketing. U Their background is in politics, and advocacy man startedreally as a social impact company out of hy combinator, so they were reallyhard focus on. How do we get the creative, an messaging to R, howcreatave messaging impacts voter in tent and voter impact, and so that'sonly where their roots are was to really kind of help. Those trying tochange the world get their message across in a way that actually resonateswith people, and so they tried to basically bring science into the way that you gain thoseinsights, and so they built that a whole. You know T Y: they spent a lotof money building out a whole day to signs platiforn to be able to kind ofno not just take surveys, but to analyze these surveys and building kindof what's called RCT or randomized controlled trial testing, which is kindof the the goal standard for any type of science, test, Rigt, fory type ofexperiment. It's what the FDA uses for vaccines to prove that theyr theirAfricacy and that they work and that's what they brought now to the creativeworld. And so they started to expand and started getting interest fromgrands and saying you know one. We need to be agile, because brands obviouslyhave taken to approach that corporate culture has a broader impact on societyone and to the way that they message. Hor Consumer is consistently changingright and their consumer. The way that they view creative, the way that theyve messages, whether it because e seasonality, whether it be because ofthe new product lunches, whether it be because of you, know the certainenvironments or things happening in the world today. Frien need to be agile,and so what they Bil was a platform that can get you these incredible. Youknow scientific results within twenty four hours, which typically are thingsthat were done by large agencies and market research. ANCES that would take.You know several weeks, Tho several months focus groups which you knowright now, if they're being down they're being done, ov, resoome andkind of taking what has been an old school manual process and really turnedit into an actual technology. So within that advising work and talking to them,you know we, they kind of approache me e. If it was something that I would beinterest going to help them build out their Goo to market strategy and bothin partnerships in the revenue and M yeah. I just I tung over the team, alot of people smarter than I I think I think go hapen the mid Stanford N, Basand PhDs, but Um. You know I just thought there was areally big opportunity to you know: have an impact on the way thatmarketers reach their consumers, specially marketers, who want to have abigger impact which I think is kind of a unique take to their to their marketresearch. Totally, I I mean there's so muchtimeliness about what there whats wables bringing to market. I mean,certainly right now: U All! Coming from the the political and advocacy space.Amidst you know, as we we go into November, I'm sure has an entire. Youknow piece of Your Business and then to your point, companies and brands, and Ithink we're seeing this even more on the other side of this Pandamac, youknow what companies stand for, how there they're coming to market is somuch more than the products they're selling or you know traditional meansof marketing. It's it's really. This holelystic view of how consumers areorviewing them and and engaging so I I I'm excited for what you're bringing toto them and what they're bringing to the market. That's that sounds likefune. It is it's been it's been a month. It's been Super Fun, it's superexciting. To See, and again I think it ait was one of the things. A really youknow, KINDOF got drawn into was a culture of of belief right. Theybelieve what they're doing they believe in the product they believe in the data.They believe what the Daythay can help. Companies do and drive their message,both he political fron and on the Brandfront, and so you know when youwork with people that are excited about...

...what they're doing day today. You knowthat that just makes everything so much easier. Yeah me goes back to your pointaround th the culture piece, especially in an early stage. Company and belief,is a really good rallying cry. Othis has been. This has been an honor for meto sit down with you. I mean Ie. I've come to know you, but I got to hearmore of your story and I think you know, as I I think, about the revenue,collective community and WHO's going to find value in this story and and alsoyou know, who should connect with you. I'm thinking those that are founders orwint be interested in being founders. I think about those that are in thoseearly stage, companies that are going through the growing pans, those thatare maybe even in the established companies that that are saying how dowe become a bit more innovative? How do we create a culture that people thatwant to be here re that belief? I can see so much relevance and I would askfor you who do you want to be connecting within the revenue collective community. You know if people are listening tothis, who are those folks that should should get in touch and how should theyget in touch with you, yeah Somanthe revenue, collective group has beenamazing. I've definitely been highly engaged there, whether it be throughslack or any, of the the lunch meetings on a on a weekly basis, the amount oftown sharing that people have done, the you know if you post a question, youget, you know thirty answers. People were just genualely willing to helpeach other outside. I think the the network in the group has been amazingand I'm more than happy t to talk with anyone. If there's anyone that, I thinkyou know that things that I can be helpful in anyway or give them acertain perspective. I'd be happy toat Hav, a conversation they can reach outeither be an email which I believe is successful through Rae, collective orthrough the remedy. Collecte slack. I I definitely check it minimum once a day,although the number of notifications s as increased drastically over te lastlast six months to a year, but I'm pretty uxessul linedon u'accessible,always happy to talk with the team yeah and anybody that you know I'm going tobe looking to grow my team as well. So if thereare people looking for newopportunities, I know there's a big kind of group out there, that is intransition or on the bench likely probably going into next year, we'll beGino reaching out the son to to have some conversations as well. So theepeople are kind of aline with the mission and excited about what we'redoing be happy to ar from TDEN. You know sooner the latter excellent. I thank you so much forjoining us today. This has been a wonderful conversation. I've learned aton and M. I'm I'm excited to hear thet hear the feetback from our got when we,when we share this story W in case Ias Aplsur speaking with Y.You think so much about me on all right. Well, we will see, see you out there inthe community and wewill be publishing this here soon. So I'll, thank you andwith that we are signing O. Thank you, owl. That was a pretty goodinaugural episode for me. I I loved being able to sit down with you hearabout your story, and I appreciate how much autenticity you brought with that.Let's rap with today, this episode was brought to you by Sindoso. They delivermodern, direct male personalize gifts and other physical impressions thatmake your outreach more personal, all right revenue, collective, it's beenfine. This is calg signing out, Take Care.

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