The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

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Ep 20: Selling Your Company and Starting anew During a Pandemic feat Al Torres

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Ep 20: Selling Your Company and Starting anew During a Pandemic feat Al Torres

Hi and welcome to the revenue collectivepodcast. I'm Casey let Gordon, your host. Today's episode with Al Torres, the vice president of revenue and partnerships per suayable, is brought to youby Sindoso. Sindoso, the leading sending platform, is the most effective wayfor revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic pointsthroughout the customer journey. By connecting digital and physical strategies, companies can engage, require and retain customers easier than ever before. Thank you, Sendoso,and let's jump in without all right, crew, hello revenue collective. Thisis Casey let Gordon, as Sam has dubbed Me Klg, your new hostfor the revenue collective podcast. I am excited to sit down today with myguest, Al Torres. Al Is the current Vice President of revenue and partnershipsat Suayable, a global research platform for testing consumer impact for creative ads.And while we will talk about swayable and AL's journey to starting a new gigin the midst of a pandemic, we're going to start a little earlier inOl story of when he found it in sold a company during a pandemic.So for any of you living that startup life, that founder life, andadjusting to the world in in remote and pandemic life, I think this willbe an interesting talk. How thank you for joining me today. Okcy,pleasure, pleasure to be here with you today. Really excited to have thisconversation met to me too, and so at you and I met. Youand I met a couple months ago and it's been interesting through my transition ofleaving a full time job and taking some time off and then you taking sometime off going into a full time Gig. So it's been interesting parallel and I'veso enjoyed any of our conversations we've had over the past couple months andgetting to know each other. Yeah, it's been a pleasure, it reallyhas. And this two and twenty has been an interesting year to say theleast. I think a little bit crazy, and I'm predictable across the board.So you know the the craziness kind of stories individually continue, but Ithink mine's probably somewhat unique. And last minute I was the founder of acompany called summit, saying the sales enablement software from marketers. So really whatwe were was the ability to track event Roi from meetings at trade chosen conferences. We had started the business about five plus years ago, a cofounder ofmyself, and we've gone through kind of all the trials and tribulations of astartup. So you know, I would say once a year we thought thatwe wouldn't be able either do a fund raise or we were going to getpaid on time in order to meet pay roll or that, you know,we the systems were to be able to hit a certain deadline for a certainclient. So throughout the is stressful kind of five and a half years,by the end of by mid of last year, we really started hitting ourstride and we had acquired a lot of enterprise business, specifically companies like anAmazon, Docu sign spotify, and we were really kind of hitting our ourheadway there and we decided, you know, where we were in the midst ofdeciding whether we go and raise a series be around the funding we haddone six point six million through a series day at that point, or shouldwe look at a potential acquisition, since we had already kind of gone somesome light interest, and so the mid two thousand and nineteen was kind ofan interesting tipping point for us. Yeah, I I love that. So let'sdig into a little bit of this here. So five years ago youand your business partner start this business and see, you know, see growth. You've gone through series a, you're coming into late two thousand and nineteen, right, you're hitting your stride, winning these big accounts. I thinkany of those names would make any organization, much less a start up, prettyhappy. You know that the Amazon's, the spotify is of the world,but that's pretty incredible. So then,...

...was it a matter of just yourown you know, building a companies exhausting, certainly, five years ina company. Was it your own journey? That said, let's start looking atwhat the next option is, of whether it's selling or acquiring or where. There are other factors at play and I think, you know, wecan certainly dig into to what those look like in a startup world. Yeah, for sure, it was a little bit of combination of everything right.So throughout, I think when you start the business there's maybe the the massivelyoptimistic internal viewpoint that you know one day this is going to grow into abillion dollar business and maybe go public. If you if you kind of havethat general thought of being shooting for the stars. But you know, whenyou're really starting, you start taking invest in money, you realize they're kindof really are two options that potentially going in public one day if you growto that level, but more likely in today's world of a technology start upat least, acquisition is probably the more, you know, realistic option. Arguably, you know, just running a small business that has a normal trajectoryof growth is a possibility. But if you take money, typically that investmentcomes with, you know, speed and agility to get a higher return thatmoney. So if you take investment, likely to acquisition is probably one ofyour main kind of targets at some point down the road. So we knewthat. We knew that the conversations I mentors with our investors, but priorto taking money, and so we knew that at some point down the roadthat was something that we would likely can kind of consider. And the questionis always when. Do you have enough product market fit? Do you haveenough revenue to show interest? Do you have enough strategic value? Have youbuilt the right team? kind of all the different reasons why someone a largerbusiness will buy a smaller business. You know revenue is one of the keyones and probably one of your main metrics, but it's typically not the only one. Right, it's to be some level of innovation, the technology Git is, you know, acquisition for talent, the way of thinking aboutsomething where your product that arguably could be inferior to a larger product but isstill taking market share because of its approach or the way that it's built orsome other reason. Right. So we always had that in the back ofour mind that acquisition was a likely option for us. What twenty nine teambrought was, I think, more of the kind of the the story,you know blogs or podcasts that you hear about how alignment with investors started tokind of diverge and when we were looking to understand whether we want to continuefundraising or look at an acquisition, dealing with some of our investors that hadsome discrepancies of the way that we looked at the world, the way thatwe wanted to kind of fundraise going forward for the success of the business,started to missalign and luckily my partner I had enough ownership of the business wherewe were still kind of able to steer it in the direction that we wantedfor the most part, and so we started to say, Hey, let'slook at what an acquisition really look like. So we went out to the market. I want I want to ask the question real quick before we getinto the story of what was next. I want to understood and as you'reable to share right, I recognized that their sensitively always, but can youshare anything about that misalignment and what that journey was like when you started torealize it, how you and your partner had those conversations? I mean,this is great, this is like your blood, sweat and tears into buildingyour company, and I'm sure it was emotional. It was personal as muchas it was business, and so curious of what that felt like on theother side. Yeah, it was. It was all those things you knowwhen you when you talk about Miss Alignement, I think there is. Some peoplesay that you know all money screen and if it's on your terms,that might be the case, but if it's on anyone else's terms, whichusually for a startup that's taking investment dollars, it's typically not who you go intobusiness with matters, you know a lot and so you know where Ithink we we did not. We had...

...heard for some of them. Wehad a lot of investors, from angels to family offices to professional DC's,who all have different incentives right of what they're trying to achieve. They allhave their business in their goals, and I think we're you know, earlyon when you're like hey, I need money to pay for the payroll tocontinue moving, because we'll say client has a sixty or ninety day you know, payment terms or something like that. So cash flow is always an issueto start up. You kind of look and say, listen to the moneywill matter. The terms matter less about it if I don't exist, right, so let me just take the money. We could figure that out later.Well, I think some of that is understanding kind of who your partnersare, bringing on the right investors, because they will be with you throughthe rest of it for the most part, right, and whether that's five,seven, ten years, and so again, understanding, doing your duediligence. You know, we had done some we had probably heard some storiesthat probably should have kind of swayed us away from taking some of the moneyfrom some investors, but at the time it just seemed like the easier route. Arguably seemed like better terms, and I think this also kind of showswhy you need good lawyers and you know, and good mentors and advisors on.So you know, we didn't go into any of it blindly, butwe probably were a little naive of assuming that, you know, those storieswere one awesome wouldn't happen to us all. Right, lesson learn there is.If there's the the stories, the feelings, the inklings, pay attentionto them. That's that's one. That is some of it. I mean, don't you think some of it's probably just experience? Like, I don'tknow what maybe you would do things differently today. But to your point,cash flow, team's opportunity growth, all of those things, they they arethings that you had to respond to and and you know, have as acatalyst. And so I hindsights always two thousand and twenty, but but sometimesI think it's part of your experience. So the next venture you you do, if you choose to be a founder again, I know that sometimes ittakes some years of re recovery to want to get that kids. But youknow, that's that's the benefit of having a serial found it right is that'swhat investors begin to love because you you've been there and done that. Soyour own sophistication and I don't know if this was your first you know,for in entrepreneurship or being a founder, by some of it it's kind ofthe bumps and bruises, like at the battle scars along the way. Yeah, one hundred percent it is. The experience is unparalleled. I mean Iwouldn't change those five years. I learned more in those five years that Iprobably would have taken me forty and still not have learned it as an outsider. And Yeah, there's something to be said about going through it right ityou understand, you know, the nuances of building a business, of creatinga culture of understanding and to build technology. So it was definitely my first forayinto a technology start up and go to market strategy right, how theproduct fits into, you know, an enterprise versus a mid market, versus'sand be the nuances of the way technology is consumed today are even five yearsago versus what it was ten fifteen years ago, understanding procedures within enterprise,percurement and so you know, we all touched on those, but if youworked for large organizations, those were kind of things you arguably didn't either.You didn't deal with day today or was kind of like a second thought asa start up. Those are all things that must come into your strategy becausethey will affect the timing of everything, the execution and so going through itfrom the beginning it. It's an experience that just can't can't be replicated thatyou can read all the books and they can give you good inside as thethings that you you know, know that you don't know, like the knownunknowns. Yeah, but but it is also why people, you know,bring on advisors and bring on mentors, and I would say that was oneof the things that we were very lucky to have, is that, forthe most part, although we were, you know, some things we thoughtwe knew and we were wrong. Other things we were aware of and consciouslydecide to do something different and sometimes at...

...work, sometimes it didn't, butwe very seldom winning completely blind with no information, and that was because wehad a good, you know, a good mentor advisor team along with uswho had done this in several instances and it talked about, hey, youknow, if you take on certain terms now, they those things could biteyou three years from now, and we had probably said at the time athree years and now who knows where the world is. It's fine. Threeyears. Three years later we're like shit, we shouldn't have. Shouldn't that twoyears ago. So you know, you do, you live, youlearn. You kind of I would say you're kind of like the teenagers.Your parents tell you like be careful, this could happen. You're like,oh, that's not going to happen to me, and then it happens here, like crap, parents are right. That's kind of what the startup iswith your advisors. They give you some advice because they've seen it happen.You know, more often than not and every you know, sometimes you getlucky and it's not the case, but but more often than not they're probablyon the right side of the of the result. And so that's how Iwould kind of talk about started start to like teenagers and hopefully you're able tokind of grow out of that that phase and into adult, whole adulthood withgood parents. I love the analogy. I'm, you know, cracking upat that thinking about just all these rebellious teenagers and then the the advisor parents. I think they're shaking their head and back in my day that's exactly it'sexactly totally all right, so tell me. So I I'm fascinated any time anybodygoes through an experience like this. To your point, you can readall the books, but I mean that's one of the reasons I love thispodcast is you're hearing such human stories. Tell me, you know, ifyou can synthesize it down into one, maybe two points, what's the thebest thing you learned during that experience? And then we'll get into you know, what that aquisition all that looked like. But what's the best thing you learned? And then maybe the most painful thing you learned? Could still bea good thing, but painful to learn it. Yeah, so the bestthing we learned about the start up was that, in my mind, cultureof the team is the number one factor of success and that the culture likelywill have to change over time. Obviously, you know, when you're two threeperson company to a two thousand and twenty five Person Company, which iswhere we were towards the end, is very different, and so the theculture that you define, the vision that you have as the founders and leaders, that is one of the biggest reasons people join a startup and so beingvery clear, concise, consistent amongst that vision, to create that so intype of culture that you want to have, I think is one of the mostcritical elements to success and to kind of battle through the inevitable obstacles thatyou will have and when everyone is aligned, you're able to kind of come togetherkind of get through that. I very much look guys like a sportsteam when everyone's kind of on the same mission. Yeah, people figure outtheir roles, they help out where they can. It's truly a team effortand and that type of culture of we're all on the same mission, weall have the same kind of goals, we all have our roles within thatto get to achieve that, it's really the only way to kind of besuccessful. In regards to one of the biggest pain points, I think wasactually give you two and there were probably a lot win too, but theywere different. Two, which was from the investment side, was taking moneyfrom people that you really want to work with and you trust. That wasnumber one and that would be across the board, even if it meant raisingless mind and then I think the other thing was having a little bit ofpatients, especially around the product where you know, we were giving my backgroundis in sales. We were always selling ahead, but understanding, if you'rebuilding the technology, that there is a nuance and procedure and process to doingso, and so not trying to sell too far ahead, because there weretimes where, you know, we overpromised under delivered, and you always wantto do the opposite. And so you know patients. Unfortunately, is alot of Sali seople don't have, and...

...it's probably one of the key thingsyou need in the startup because things will break. It takes time to buildthings and it cannot, thinks, going to happen so fast. So thoseare probably kind of the the ones that could have generally always stick out.I think there's so much interconnectivity between the best things, who learned and maybethe painful things, because right a team should should bring different things sales.It should be persistent, they should be growth hungry, they should be thinkingahead, but to be able to have, whether it's, you know, anotherfounder on board or team members that can balance that patience that can bethinking about, you know, not just the immediacy of taking dollars but thelong term trust and relationship. And so I'm curious within your founding partnership ormaybe even early stage team, did you find that you personally had to emulatea lot of those those maybe competing values, or were you able to have multiplepeople in your team playing those roles? Yeah, so we realize was thatwe needed to play those roles as founders. You know, it's arequirement that you play them right, because otherwise it can feel, you know, disingenuous, and so you need to kind of portray that and believe thatand live that all the time. And the key was, though, asyou're busy and whether it be fundraising or doing sales calls or traveling, whentravel was you know, I think we did what I've done in a longtime, but when I knew it, I remember you used to do it, and when I you know, when you're kind of gone or out ofthe office or and meetings, you do need to have a team that willemulate that for you right and so hiring the right leadership was a key factor. I would say that was one of the interesting things that we started todo later on where, you know, at the level that we were at, which was, you know, very small team for all tense purposes,was we we looked at people who had worked at startups for as a akey metric, you know, outside of a resume, because you know,we had done the, would say, early mistake of hiring on a onthe resume alone, meaning that they had, you know, great schooling, thathad come from a big name company, they were in the industry. Ifyou looked at the resume, anyone, any outside of would looking said thisis impressive, this person should be successful. There's no doubt. Andit was a complete opposite right because they hadn't been or understood the nuances ofbeing at a start up and what it required. And so we found wasobviously those things are important, but the ability to, you know, workat a startup requires you to get into the weeds, to be self sufficient, to you know, learn things on your own, because you don't havethe resources, you don't have necessarily the the the experts in the room withyou all the time. And you know, that was one of the things thatwe started to look for when we were hiring, and that worked atsuper well for us because obviously we still look for certain skills sets, butskill sets that had worked in a startup or had done it maybe within acertain amount of time, so they knew what they were getting into, becauseI think the expectations that other people have as it starts are all cool andfun and that they're right. You know, they all have great lunches and,you know, snacks and all that kind of stuff, and most setupsare not Google or facebook, and even if you fill them in, Idon't think you can clem into that bucket now, but even at the time. Right. So, so that was one of the key eliments that,from a hiring culture perspective, that we really looked for. That was akey, a key elimn and then the other thing was obviously we really focuson like interns to kind of really evaluate people, and that was actually superhelpful because we did find, though, that a lot of, you know, young people out of college had a big thirst for, you know,doing things on their own, learning on their own. I think this kindof concept of remote work or remote learning, you know, way for startups isa big plus, because people are kind of, you used to selflearning, and so what we did notice...

...was that, you know, thethose kind of coming graduating from colleges had a had a pretty robust thirst forfor startups and a good kind of acclamation to getting into the weeds of everything. So that was kind of an inche thing where we were able to promotea bunch of our kind of young interns who went from intern to coordinator toa manager and kind of growth throughout the business and take on different roles.So that was also kind of a successful model for us. I love that. We could probably have an entire other session around, you know, talentstrategies in a startup and and how you do that, how you build team, how what is culture look like? And I'll hold you to it ona follow up session. Okay, so we're five years in. You andyour partner of take an investment, some investment that you know, sounds likefrom painful lessons learn maybe not not always aligned, or, you know,the the dollars weren't green, to use your words. You're in q twothousand and nineteen. You say, okay, let's look at our different options,right. We maybe go out for a series B, we look atpossible acquirers, we look at just different, different avenues and decide what's best forthe company at this stage. And so take me, take me throughtwo thousand and nineteen. Q Four. Yeah, so it I should probablystarted in q three. Of twenteen where we were kind of contemplating. Wehad gotten approach with some interest, you know, partnerships that I would say, you know, look, that made a lot more sense more as acquisitions. But you know, the the approach was more of that and you know, we were we knew that we had a good runway into the the firsthalf of two thousand and twenty and you know, you obviously want to tryand raise money before you're out of it. So that that takes time and todonally speaking, will take kind of three to six months. So weknew we had to kind of start soon. If that was going to be thecase, then you know, some investor drama and suit and we wesaid, listen, they're the reality is that, you know, in acquisitionis going to be the best method to kind of resolve this versus kind ofbringing more people into the into the bubble. So we said, let's see whatthis looks like and luckily my partner I had enough, enough control ofthe business for the most part to kind of to move the needle there.And, you know, we went out to the market, we put ourselvescapped on said let's see what we can do in a relatively short period oftime because this was right around that mid to end of October and twenty andnineteen had a you know New Year's and Christmas that fell right right in themiddle of the week. So that was two weeks in. December was prettymuch gone. So we had about a six weeek window going into the NewYear that we knew we need to kind of make some things happen, andso we end up having about thirty conversations basically November and early December. Companythat helping sales people that manage to have thirty net new conversations and November andDecember. So kudos there. Thank you. Yeah, I have to say itwas probably one of my most aggressive sales outreaches in quite some time,even with the business. But you know, the death of the business or successof the business, variety on you can kind of force you to figurethings out hotly. But we had those conversations and they were all, youknow, some some very large players, two more kind of medium companies tosome private equity, and we dandled that down to those that were more serious. We had about turn of them dive into the data room towards the endof December into the new year. By mid January we ended up having threeoffers and two of them were heavier announced but but strong offers, and thenone was an all cash deal. Now, you know, interesting when you,I think, you look at things, you would say we're in a greatsubjectory. You know, we've signed some big name clients. We wereprobably in the best position we've ever been hitting. Some of these numbers wereaggressive, as as intended by the choir, but things that we think we canall hit if things stay the way they were. And what was interestingwas that my background is in finance, partor in sales and you know,I just felt like the market hadn't had...

...a turn ten years and the firstthings that typically a cut our tiene marketing events and we said, listen,that that environment, which after ten year bull run, is likely to happenat some point soon, and probably more likely in the next two years.You know, this all cash deal still a good deal right. It maybedoesn't look as being on paper over two years, but it's it's a gooddeal. Everyone gets jobs, most of you know the investors are going tobe happy and this is a good win right. It's like hitting a doublein baseball. Versus maybe the home run. YEA, doubles guaranteed. The thehome run is, you know, twenty five percent chance, let's say. And we said, you know what, we've seen too many instance where peopleget too greedy in the long run just doesn't work out. Let's let'sjust take the win and we took that deal. We felt like it wasreally good alignment. It would ended up being with this to equity partners,be a sevent there's the largest event management software in the world. So everyone. They took the entire team. My cofounder and I decided and kind ofearly negotiations that, you know, we didn't necessary feel that we want tokind of go over a full time and they understood that. Have to say, they were super gracious and understanding. They've done like sixty acquisitions in thelast like five years, so they were, I think, pretty adeptive the understandingkind of personalities and founders being in a different kind of mental state.But we we negotiate, obviously a transition period to kind of help them moveeverything over and interesting of the team, and we did that. But theywanted a quick close and we were fine with that and they wanted a threeweek close. It was probably of the five years. Those three weeks wereprobably the most stressful because dealing with lawyers every day, about documents, withthe documents say and don't say. I think every day I thought like wedidn't include some statement like this is going to kill the deal. We're done. But three weeks went by and February twenty we officially closed and I cantell you that both in our minds and probably the general conversation in the officehad zero of zero word covid attached to it at all. And about tendays later that completely changed and we were talking about not community the office fora period of time. And about thirteen days later, like the world,that changed. So you know, you go back and look about running thingsdown to the wire. You know we could not have cut it any closer. So yeah, we're going. That's to be a good win. Yeah, I mean that's insane, like the fat one, the so many piecesabout this one. You Win these deals with companies that any of US listeningwould be, you know, mind blown to do business with. Right thenyou say, okay, it's probably the emotional journey of investor drama, touse your word, aggressive sales kick you guys, you know that speaks toit, to the talent. They're both of the product that you had aswell as your own ability, is to tee up all these meetings, getten opportunities on the table, dwend it down to three, q one,you negotiate this deal, covid happens and you still sell. And, bythe way, this is an event tracking and Roy Platform. Like, howdid you process this, like coming off of this right now? It's upto where almost in October when this airs, it will be October. What isthe six months been post acquisition for you? I mean, I didwhat did you do to really process this? How is the company doing today?And then how how have you reset and kind of reground it after goingthrough what I imagine, to your point, was like, you know, fiveyears over three months, or or whatever it was. Yeah, no, I mean I can say that my partner and I, probably three weeksinto into the sale or the official close, basically said to ourselves that we arethe luckiest people in the world right now. A lottery after that.Yeah, we taught I think I did...

...actually, but we definitely taught.I didn't want on that one, but we we definitely realize that. Man, when they say timy is everything. Timy is everything, and so wesaid it. We said we were just very lucky. It's better to belucky and good. You know, it wasn't something that happened overnight. Weput a lot of time and effort to get to where it had to makethat happen and to get into a good place. I mean, you know, I would say there's no doubt that we would either have been out ofbusiness or truly had to fire sale the business, you know, had thingsbeen delayed. You know, a month, so right. A week, yeah, it or week. Yeah, basically week, it would have beenlike wall, let's see what happens with this thing coming from China, andit would have been like yeah, let's not do steal. So yeah,it was one of those we felt very lucky, but it almost in aweird way, I felt like those five years of the hard work and everythingto push it and push ourselves in towards the end of two thousand and nineteento make something happen, to kind of get through the investor drama, toput our team into a good place, into a good home, to kindof get that win, that all the that effort in the the speed andurgency that we did it, you know, ended up paying off in obviously somethingthat we could have never have anticipated or plan for, but I thinkthat's why, you know, you push as hard as you can, asfast as you can, because you just you never know, and that that'sa very good example of it. But since then, you know, tooka little time off, took a few months, a little time, likeI'm doing my sabbatical now. I want you to tell me what's a littletime, but my little time was probably about two months. Two months Ihaven't had a still too but a little over to now had two year old, so it was great to kind of spend some time with him and youknow, we were quarantined anyway, and so you know, it was itwas in a weird way it was a good quarantine for us because it wasjust, you know, family time and then there was no kind of work, or I didn't really have to work from home or that kind of soit was, in odd timing of a nice little break across the board.But after about two months I started getting itching and trying to do stuff andfigure out kind of what was next and figured the dependemic wouldn't make things anyeasier. And you know, and I'm one that always loves to learn andcontinue learning. So, you know, I had done some advisory work inthe past and decided to continue to do that. So I took on aboutfour or five clients, most of them around a series around to funding techcompanies and helping them around there go to mark a strategy, general advisement acrossyou know, investment in structure, and then also we had gone through anaccelerator called entrepreneurs round table accelerator Earra and New York, which is a greatexperience for us, and so I became an entrepreneur residents. They're helping acrosssome of their classes that come through around similar type things. So was doingthat for a number of months and then, across those introductions from investors and otherpeople that I just knew, I ended up getting introduced to the founderof swyable. He's a physicist, former head of global digital product for theNew York Times and cool, casual. Yeah, casually, and you know, he, he. You know, he was an interesting, interesting guy. He's an Australian, which the action always gets you to kind of listeninga little more what they're talking about. And then I was intrigued with whatthey were building. You know, my background is in the marketing media space. Prior to to kind of the startup and most of the the tech starta platforms, there had been in like the media distribution world and that worldhas been kind of hit hard from lower valuations, harder MNA or it justbeen kind of a harder world over the last part five to ten years.To to quote unquote, be successful, I have a successful kind of outcome. But what I found that they were taking out of a very different approachand they were focusing much more on the...

...creative side of marketing. They're ourbackground is in politics and advocacy and started really as a social impact company outof Y combinator. So they were really hard focus on how do we getthe creative and messaging to or how creative a messaging impacts voter and ten andvoter impact, and so that's really where their roots are. was to reallykind of help those trying to change the world get their message across in away that actually resonates with people, and so they tried to basically bring scienceinto the way that you gain those insights and so they built that a wholeyou know, they've spent a lot of money building out a whole data scienceplatform to be able to kind of not not just take surveys, but toanalyze these surveys and build in kind of what's called Ourct, or randomized controltrial testing, which is kind of the the goal standard for any type ofscience test, right, for any time experiment. It's what the FDI usesfor vaccines to prove that their their efficacy and that they work. And that'swhat they brought now to the creative world, and so they started to expand,started getting interest from brands of saying, you know, one, we needto be agile, because brands obviously have taken approach that corporate culture hasa broader impact on society. One early and to the way that they message. Our consumer is consistently changing, right, and their consumer, the way thatthey view created, the way that they view messages, whether it becausethe seasonality, whether it be because of new product launches, whether it bebecause of the certain environments or things happening in the world today. Brands needto be agile, and so what they built was a platform that can getyou these incredible, you know, scientific results within twenty four hours, whichtypically are things that were done by large agencies, market research agencies, thatwould take, you know, several weeks of several months. Focus groups,which you know right now, if they're being done, they're being done overZum, and kind of taking what has been an old school manual process andreally turned into an actual technology. So within that advising work and talking tothem, you know, we they kind of approached me of if it wassomething that I would be interesting going to help them build out their go tomarket strategy and both from partnerships and their revenue. And Yeah, I justfell in love with the team. A lot of people smarter than I think. I think God happened another your Stanford, NBA's and PhDs, but you know, I just thought there was a really big opportunity to, you know, have an impact on the way that marketers reach their consumers, specifically marketerswho want to have a bigger impact, which I think is kind of aunique take to their to their market research. Totally. I mean there's so muchtimeliness about what their what's labels bringing to market? I mean certainly rightnow, and it's that you all coming from the political and Advocacy Space Amidstt. You know, as we go in to November, I'm sure has anentire, you know, piece of Your Business. And then, to yourpoint, company is in brands and I think we're seeing this even more onthe other side of this pandemic. You know what company stand for, howthey're they're coming to market is so much more than the products they're selling or, you know, traditional means of marketing. It's really this holistic view of howconsumers are viewing them and and engaging. So I am excited for what you'rebringing to them and what they're bringing to the market. That's that soundslike fun. It is. It's been a it's been a month. It'sbeen Super Fun. It's super exciting to see it again. I think itall, what was one of the things I really kind of got drawn intowas a culture of belief. Right. They believe what they're doing, theybelieve in the product, they believe in the data. They believe and whatthe data can help companies do and drive their message, both of the politicalfront and on the brand front. And so you know, when you workwith people that are excited about what they're doing daytoday, you know that thatjust makes everything so much easier. Yeah,...

...me, it goes back to yourpoint around the the culture piece, especially in an early stage company,and belief is a really good rallying cry. How this has been this has beenan honor for me to sit down with you. I mean, I'vecome to know you, but I got to hear more of your story andI think you know, as I think about the revenue collective community and WHO'sgoing to find value in this story and also, you know, who shouldconnect with you, I'm thinking those that are founders, are may be interestedin being founders. I think about those that are in those early stage companiesthat are going through the growing pains, those that are maybe even in theestablished companies that are saying, how do we become a bit more innovative,how do we create a culture that people that want to be here, thatbelief? I can see so much relevance and I would ask for you,who do you want to be connecting within the revenue collective community? You know, if people are listening to this, who are those folks that should shouldget in touch and how should they get in touch with you? Yeah,absolutely. Mean the revenue collective group has been amazing. I've definitely been highlyengaged there, whether it be through slack or any of the lunch meetings ona weekly basis. The amount of town sharing the people have done, theyou know, you post a question, you get thirty answers. People wouldjust genuinely willing to help each other out. So I think the network in thegroup has been amazing and I'm more than happy to talk with anyone.If there's anyone that I think you know that thinks that I can be helpfulin any way or give them a certain perspective, I'd be happy to havea conversation. They can reach out either via email, which I believe issuccessful, through revenue collective, or through the revenue collective slack. I definitelycheck in a minimum months a day, although the number of notifications as increaseddrastically over the last last six months to a year. But I'm pretty excessifulLinkedin, I'm accessible. Always happen to talk with a team. Yeah,and anybody that you know. I'm going to be looking to grow my teamas well. So if they're people looking for new opportunities, I know there'sa big kind of group out there that is in transition or on the benchlikely, probably going into next year, will be kind of reaching out thesun to have some conversations as well. So they're people are kind of alignedwith the mission and excited about what we're doing. Be Happy to hear fromthem, you know, sooner than later. Excellent. I'll thank you so muchfor joining us today. This has been a wonderful conversation. I've learneda ton and I'm excited to hear the here, the feedback from our groupwhen we when we share this story. Awesome case. It was a pleasurespeaking with you. Thanks so much abouting me on. All right. Well, we will see see you out there in the community and we will bepublishing this here soon. So I'll thank you and with that we are signingoff. Thank you, Al that was a pretty good inaugural episode for me. I loved being able to sit down with you here about your story andI appreciate how much authenticity you brought with that. Let's wrap with today.This episode was brought to you by Sindoso. They deliver modern direct mail, personalizedgifts and other physical impressions that make your outreach more personal. All right, revenue collective. It's been fun. This is chaog signing out, takecare of.

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