The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 19: Do You Have a Book Brewing Inside of You? Matt Bray Tells All

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Ep 19: Do You Have a Book Brewing Inside of You? Matt Bray Tells All

Hi and welcome to the revenue collectivepodcast. My Name Is Casey let Gordon and I'm your host. Today I'msitting down with Matt Bray. Matt is the author of the book the PartnershipPrinciple. He'll be telling us a behind the scenes look at what it waslike to write a book, and for those of you listening that may havea book brewing inside you, this is the place to go. They alsowant to give a shout out to today's sponsors. This month's sponsor is Sindoso. Sindoso, the leading sending platform, is the most effective way for revenuegenerating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic points throughout thecustomer journey. By connecting digital and physical strategies, companies can engage, acquireand retain customers easier than ever before. Thank you to Sindoso and let's digin with Matt. Hello Everyone, this is Casey let Gordon, your revenuecollective podcast host, and I am sitting down with Matt Bray, the authorof the new book the Partnership Principal. Matt, thank you for being here. Thank you all right. So, when I got the email from Samthat you and I were going to talk. I was so excited because this isa side of our revenue collective community I don't think we've explored yet.And when you and I were talking, you said this topic is around.If you have a book brewing inside you, I'm going to tell all. I'mgoing to tell about my experience of writing it, the goods, theBads, what it was like to take time off, how I took myknowledge and experiences and put it down to paper. And even with that,will see the last ten percent of giving it over the finish line and andwhat that looks like. So I'm I'm excited to sit down today and appreciateyou, you know, talking about your journey. Yeah, thank you.What a journey it's been. I think when people constemplate or have this ideaof writing a book and actually think, right, what am I going towrite it about? Who's going to be my target audience? Were going tobe my goals, and all that kind of fundamental that process and thought patternthat you've got to sort of stop putting down and create some logic in directionout of it. There's a stat that says only one percent of people whoactually think about doing it actually do it, it's actually walk out the other endsand say that I've done it and being, for me, a phenomenalachievement to say the least. But I did do it in in six months, which a bit mind blowing. A lot of people take a fair numberof years to do it. But it did the help of obviously taking thetime off through the period of Covid and filling and obviously being part of revenuecollected, gave me kind of inspiration stop sitting down and writing and actually dealingwith some of the challenges that a lot of members of the revenue collective havewithin the arena of partnerships, which is still, to some degree, anunknown dark car when it comes to generating indirect revenue. So really I wasgive it a purpose, I guess, through the revenue collected, to sitdown and really start writing at it really took on shape from its Im fromthere. And why? And if you went out to do to create whateffective was a guy book in bottleships, tricks and tips and all that,full of stuff that you could use to generate revenue turned into two hundred fortynine pages of for nine thousand words in book form. This probably some Amazon. So yeah, it's it really took shake, took forward the go mind. It was that journey to say. But but it's a really good journey. So, yeah, happy to share that with you on this book up. That is amazing. I think you by far one. You're in theone percent of people that published a book actually followed through. But to you'reprobably the most productive person I've experienced during quarantine. Right, like you,you took this limit and turn it into lemonade here, and I think that'samazing. You've been starty kind. I think my job is the podcast house, right, I got to blurtter you up so I get all the real, real dirt. Yeah, remember, remember, I'm British. Say So, I don't do the Woohoo thing, but but I but I'll try anddo my quicket clap. And we're getting a lesson here people in American andBritish dynamics. Right, it's great. We're hitting hitting all the topics.Okay, so quickly, just so I can situate our members in in yourexperiences, you were coming off of working at sales trip and now you areworking at signatio. Tell me a little bit about both companies and and whatyour role has been around partnerships. To your point that the dark art.Yeah, okay, so two kind of questions in one. They're so.So what's my history and partnerships and that sales trips and Signavia journey. Okay, so I took a little about the signal vio. The sel trips isnot be a journey. First. So...

I spent to Korea working in twokind of ecosystems. I guess these easy swear said it. One ecosystem I'vespent good for fifteen, twenty years working which is in business travel. SoI done everything from set up three service companies or travel agency. They processtransactions but they do the consulting, implementation and manage services kind of off theback of it. And then part of that it's employee why they're in businesstravel has employe their management. So I've spent about four or five years workingfor a company called air class that sold payment products. was owned by LUFTUNSER and I ran enterprise sales cross Europe for them. And then there wasa very cool little company that was growing in Europe called conquer who was juststarting out, and I got asked to go work in their partnerships division asemployee what thirty, I think it was them, and then took that allthe way through to for the acquisition by FAP for eight point three billion intwo thousand and fifteen. So you had a phenomenal journey there and there's alead. This is the kind of a leading into. So I had acareer Bris jove and I also had a moved after the ex position into thesales force ecosystem and I worked for a mature ipe called exactly, and thenthat led me to meet and start up bounders that sold their invoicing solutions,sell sporce and had a bit of money and want to do something different.So I got together to them put a large amount of investment into a newcompany called cells trip and we built it literally from idea to winning the innovationward at dreamforce for our product on salesporce back in two thousand and the routine, I think it was. So I had a phenomenal right there and thenobviously covid hit pretty bad and pretty much for the Stop to business travel inits entirety. Everyone's working around now, you know. So so forever westart up to you're looking to re pivot redesign. We think you know whatthe formula is where you got to take your what Your Business and we itwas obviously we need to absolutely scale down and I put my hand up asa well, look, my wife wants to go back to nursing, homeschoolingwith a kid. I'd love to bit of spend some of the family.Ever, spent two and a fight years building the start up and it's valueda hundred million. That at that point and I think we'll look. I'mgoing to take a take a step back and take time out and actually I'mthe sort of character that I've got to do something. I want to getback. So a week into go voluntary furrow I got absolutely bored and Iwas spending a long the time with Sam Jacob and the team and a telepontthe community and I had this idea of a book and spent the next sixmonths doing that through writing that they were. There was obvious that we needed tomake some massive cutbacks within the business. So I took a out. Keptsort of my footing through a kind of board, kind of levels,but wanted to get my hands dirty again in partnerships and I got asked bya very good friend of mine, the used to run allantic to conker comeand join him a Signavigo to go build out the mere channel operation. So, Ye, know me, I like doing Ethel Self, building partnership programsand scratch. It needed some infrastructure around. It needs some maturity. I sortof the challenge and and took it. So I'm sort of three weeks,four weeks into that role now. So yeah, really phase two inkind of taking they recently had two d a million and investments for makebacks partnersso they've got some money to spend and and they can invest it in gettingsome more employees into into partnerships, building out the PRM solutions, getting reallyjust getting your Self Enterprise Ready to partnership program is what I wanted to do. COULD BE A book number two? It can, absolutely so. Yourexperience is really you know, you've certain you've been in the startup space andit sounds like you are in correct me if I'm wrong here, but youare excellent at coming in when we have the foundation of something and we're readyto grow up, we're ready to get to your point, enterprise ready,and the ability to do that. You know, partnerships. They're a longterm play and they're usually have to have a lined incentives and I'm sure that'swhat we'll get into around the art of the partnership principle. Is that thearea that you you've just developed your sweet spot in. So that goes backfor the twenty years. You know. I mean the business. Our leagsystem is really interesting because it is so symbiotic and work together. It reallyis the true essence of how partnerships work and it's really interesting taking the learningfrom that industry and then applying it into...

...cells force industry and at that andreally into the substake and everything. We grew out conquer. When conquer waswe had to do this some scratch. No building out, you know,a ferral program, resetup program, building out the platform, so other technologyyou provided to go build that solutions onto our architecture that we can go.You know, some of they could re self through our sales channel and theirproducts and solutions making us, making their for auct global stickier and a largerthe other nights of the stuff. But you know, it was always fromscratch. You know, and I've always I always think you, if you, if you understand the basic principles of what you need to do to gobuild out a partner program even on a limited budget. You know you canmake a subcess of it, you can generate in direct revenue, but youjust got to know. You just got to know the process and an applythe right methodology, and I think that's that's where I find the most amountof fun. I find I find in the kind of where your where yourface is. I start the book with a quote from Theodore Roosevelt and citizensand republic speach, and it's like, if he fails, at least hefells way while so daring greatly so that the base or she'll never be withthose calls and timid souls. You know, then you need to know victory ordefeat. I think that's it. You've got to just try an Arrowand you've just got to run in it. You got to run a limited budgetand you got to just see what works and if you apply the theprinciples a partnerships and you get those pieces right, you can grow and youcan grow this in direct space that I think is relatively untouched in a lotof businesses because business is really focus on that direct route to market. Alwaysdirect route to market. But in fact we're now living in an age wherewe are connected. We are living in an environment where we're adding customer valueby bringing the solutions together to provide greater value in the wind, win,win for all parties who are part of this joint value propositions by which bringsrevenue and just knowing how to do it. So so the book really kind oflooks at that. I spend twenty years doing that and it was mypiece at tried to write this down and give those members the revenue collected andthose of Rovue revenue leaders looking to figuring this time to go drive revenue anoption to say, well, there is something else out there. You don'thave to look at how to go directly to the market with its marketing,to SDR the SALESHELLE, wherever it there is an ecosystem that you can takeadvantage of that can accelerate your revenue and really and strengthen your position in yourcompany and strengthen your company's position in the market. That they so just bydoing it right. So write down the ingredients and Alex helps and see Rasmake that happens. I love it. So okay, thank you for forwalking us through that in. So, twenty years in, you take thevoluntary furlough, a weekend, you know, your time off with family, yousay I gotta get to writing. So had was the book concept somethingthat you had thought about for a while, or was it truly born during this, you know, this quarantine or or time off period? Great Question. Yeah, so I think everyone's got a book in the right and thenbark. I don't think I really knew what I was taking on when Isaid I when I had this crazy idea and light bulb moment of doing itto keep myself busy. However, you know, it's a tick box andit's something I think it's is that everybody say. The kind of the topicreally came to me while I was on the channel, partner flag channel ofthe revenue collective. So I've been a member for about a year and ahalf and what I found myself doing a lot of times of a bit ofdown fign from from work, was was going on to the flat channel and, you know, responding to a lot of the challenges that the revenue leadershad in this area of partnerships. You know, and I had this problemaround conflict in my reseller channel. I have this problem around setting up thesetting up agree. That's what Greema should it like? What does a businessplan look like? I'm thinking of opening up a new market. Do Itake exclusivity? That all these types of challenges and questions that were absolutely certainedby those redue leaders that had taken the plunge into doing partnerships of their businessand for me, congratulations for embarking on that journey. So I found myselfon the spectrum game where, well, in this scenario, typically this happensand if you apply this methodology, this is probably be the outcome, becauseI've seen it here where I've worked as...

...the last year, so about ayear and a half I was there's a got to know quite a few peoplewho stand out. Just some of the responses people come back with a thetime again, oh yeah, he knows what you're talking about. He knowswhat you're talking about. So I then started having conversations and build a littlecommunity with likes of Ed Sullivan, it is a great guy quite already inNew York, and various other members, and I just started growing in itself. We all started contributing together to a lot of challenges reny of thes haveand I and I was sitting there each into my furlough crazy, you know, everybody, everybody. It's all these interactions are happening two, one toone, fractionally, and I know there was the talk of this knowledge hugcoming together. The sound was doing that and I thought, well, thatone and I just write this Guy Book and do it in the structure whichis very familiar in the world of alliances and channel, which is discovers theseand you start a building, build your plan, get your culture, workout your kind of go to market around at actually going go and then goto quiet partners based on that clash of the you fut in place and thenbuild the channel out the back of it and then decide whether you want tooutsource or you want to recruit and turning base to what you want to do. But it's there's a kind of structure that you apply. And then Ithought, well, if I take all the difference energies that all the differentpeople have had in the year and a half that I've been of interactions thatI have, and I just Gott to drop them in to the structure andwhich then ended up being a chapter one, chapter two, chapter three each otherand four of the book. Then I can sort of give all theseanswers to and apply these answers to so I started doing that and it's asuning. I hand all these great ideas in these topics. Go why itthis is? This is just beyond your can write so much more about this. And when I was using I was literally had to reach out to itwas okay, some of the members that I say, can I use whatyou've written and drop it into the book, and then you want to talk tome a little bit about the background to this challenge that you had,and then what the outcome that you that you had was what we said todo. Did that work? And a lot of it was like yeah,it's brilliant, really, really helpful, you know, and and it youknow, I've now gone and taken your advice and put it into other areasof my my partchick practice was but it so so we had, like always, I know we had about fifty people who are part of the revenue collectivewho had each one had a different topic and we run an answer and Iwas I just started with that in this in this framework, and then itreally took on a journey. You know, I think, well, actually,you know I I mean I'm quite good at this stuff without, withoutpast. Of you got a Modestiad of thing, but I'm not yet acertain areas worry. I'm not about no needs and EXPA and I live inI live in this world that sits kind of a one side the revenue leader, and I had this old world there and then I have this other worldthat sits in in partnerships and alliance community and there's some amazing people. They'reMike Nevin, who runs a blime's best practice, and he bout Shart,now the grand another. You know, it's a really good big names,very strategic minded thinking people and I said we'll let you know I get atalk to Mike about some of these this get. What are they say aboutthat? So I started open the door and putting all these topics there's theywell, what would you have done in this situation? How do you've donethat? So like this is brilliant. You know, I that most ofthem written a book themselves and they said we'll look. Yeah, why don'tI just kind of collaborate a little bit on you on this? And butmy thoughts in as well as to as to how we can answer some ofthese challenges that these individuals have got. So getting some real academic and somereally good industry expertise on it and people I wouldn't never really thought of connectingon a one to one level historically, and this kind of book has beena motivators do that. And then, through their then started to you startedtalking from real academics, like university academics, and then those who actually run theirown business themselves around behavioral psychology, you know, like the GC index, and they then who runs that and applying some of the methodology around theor the Adal Psychology, around how teens work effectively together, but not justhow teams were expected together within your own organization, but when you start marryingorganizations together and putting people together from different companies and how veil could work togetherand find the balance in the behavioral science around you know, how can theyeffectively make an impact in what they do, like just getting not this thing lunch, but the people as well,...

...and they would putting on it.So finally, it was all kind of really taking of for this word ofhis own, and I ended up being as conductor of information and obviously applyingmy some twenty years in in partnerships to try and put some sense around allthis created genius and academic genius that was just coming in. It's my inboxand on the on the Google Docs manuscript that I that I shared. Soit was yet great, you know. So I like that. I likepay full credit of writing every single word that's in the book, but there'sbeen a's been over fifty, two, a hundred collaborators that have been beingputting on it. Well, I think that's such an interesting point because II when you go out, when someone goes out with the the concept ofI'm going to write a book, and no doubt it is a massive feet. Regardless of whether you know you're the sole contributor or there are several contributors, it can fuse that you have to be the one that has all theanswers. And what I love about what you did is you may be thestoryteller, you may be the beacon for help. Is came together, butyou're also saying that you know, if the goal of this book is toshare the how to s, the nitty gritty behind the scenes, then I'mgoing to rely on other people's stories as well, and so I think thatfor anybody that's, you know, exploring with that journey of writing a bookor going down that journey, to know that there are multiple ways to havethis come to life, I think that's pretty powerful and, and let's notminimize your role here, though, of being the one to the mouthpiece,so to speak, to be able to tell those stories. That, tome, you know, it's there's such a care that has to come withthat too, because you are using other people's, you know, experiences andnarratives and being able to make sure those are authentic and true and that you'recarrying that through correctly and you know with integrity. That that also is abig weight, I think you always said, I throughout the whole process, andtrust me, it is in the words of M Ross, who write, who write? WHO's Pietas right? I borrowed as well, but hehe's written a couple of books, and he said, you know, walkingbook is, it's not sprint, it's a it's a marathon and you justgot to keep yourself going. My I had this big, like a kindof two piece of paper on my war had my goals, although why amI going to finish this. Why am I going to complete this? Youknow what's going to get me through it, and it was a lot of itwas to do with the challenge that covid has. It's they are therevenue leaders who have the hardest job. Owning revenue of the organization have tobe the hardest job and making success and long term tenure at that role isis is a rocky roads, you know, and you need as much, Imean it's as possible and those that fail fell couldn't for for full.Pretty hard and your mental health is an issue. So so I did wantto I wanted to raise money from mental health and the charity mind. Soall proceeds the book will go there. But also that kind of sense ofgiving back. I think what's our purpose, you know, in life like we'velearned all this stuff. Give back. I'm kind of IM on the backend of my career now there's a new work force and the new dynamiccoming in, looking for new ways and leadership to do business, and ifpartships can be part of that, then I've done my job. Taken thediscipline of partships, offer scrap peep and made it part of part of theway that businesses work today and Hallelujah. And if I can, I cangive that back to business. I give up that. People Ben then brilliantand then finally, it's just probably my own my own bloody minded. Thisquite odity to say, been but it's a OCD like a start that I'mgoing to down. Well, got to finish Shit, you know. So, yes, I thought it up in the morning till the eleven at nightfor two weeks flat, three weeks flat. Sometimes it's trying to get the writings, the editing done. The other way I would have done it withwith kind of these goals that were hanging off the wall. And you know, we see Sam Jay kids and pump blacks and two people. I've gotto cool out where we're pretty motivating saying, oh yeah, it's pretty to keepgoing, keep going, somebody stakes. I have that kind of sponsors towhat I was doing as well. Yes, I think that you knowwhat you were just saying. They're around the commitment to yourself creating an environmentin which you can be successfully right. You set forth to do the same, but you had the mentors and allies in your corner. You gave yourself, you know, a purpose. There were goals. Did you gravel withany fear? You said that you're you know you you have this commitment tofollow through. You mentioned a little OCD there. I have found, I'lltalk speak to me personally, that the ability to be creative can sometimes bestiffened by the fear of failure. And...

...this is such a creative endeavor intoyour points a marathon. It's, you know, mental strength going through that. And was there any point prayer to starting where where you were paralyzed tostart, or I'm just curious what that was like for you. Pretty Cut. I think everybody stuffed, seems right, and I didn't care at who youI with the boldest person in the world. Everyone of the stuffed demonmean. I now that I've like to think I've a bit of an adventure. Are On sports billy. You know, I played rugby as a sixteen.I play for England. I'm a massive yachts when I've sailed. I'vegot the Pacific in a bod, yachts around Australia and you what have you. I've lived abroad and I've kind of be very gun home you certain degreeand be a little bit rescue. What I taken and done it with confidence. But I have the for short and I have a little chip in myhead that says, you cannot do this. This is this is where your wayover your head here. You're going to be a laughing stuff. Who'sgoing to want to read what you've got to all these sort of all thesedemons that play any head, and I I draw to and and you reallygot to look it up. So there's a there's a guy called Peter Stevenswho does the ten minute stand up on Ted talks, if you've ever everseen that. We wrote a book called Paradox and it's been around a while, but it he trained some of the some of the toughest Olympic athletes andhe was the psycho psychologist to the, I think the England cycling team andthe London Olympics, and his take is well, just imagine you. Youknow you. You're in the finals in the Olympics, you want your bike, you're ready, waiting for the gun to start, and what's going toyour head? It's like, am I good enough for this? Am Iget can I do this? And the only failing is it is you.What's in your head, what you need to the thought process behind that,putting that chimp away and thinking logically about it and say I've done the training, I know what I'm doing. I spent hours on my bike, youknow, perfecting why I am there's no reason why I shouldn't win this.And it's just trying to put those demons away and creating some logic to saynow, actually, I answered at what I do and I think I canmake it from and that's the trajector in it's maintaining that that process of thought. Now, when you do write a book right, you do finish it, you've got to have someone to read it and and it's at it's abad point where you say I really opening up my song here to everything I'vewritten and having somebody look right in and take your good look and going and, you know, casting any judgment that they want based on the words thatI put down. You know, I remember I did. I was onabout my like twelve edit this as the manuscript and I hired the editor calledBud Williams, did the did book for our Ross potics will revenue and Iremember giving him money. So he can't it's gonna be good. I can'tand I'd be. I hadn't really shown it to anyone. I've had somepeople kind of collaborate only and I'll be doing stuff, what have you,but I hadn't really had an expert look at it. And I remember eitherfear I had a giving some he's going to destroy me. He's going todestroy me. You know, when I when I gave it to him,they came back in fair enough. He did know he did. He waspretty brutal with with what he said in response to to how but was constructedwhen I thought it was in a perfect form and I had to pay withGod after week. Come with God. He's absolutely taught me. If puttold me apart and he said no, actually, you know, I'll gothe so so. Actually, it's just the way I that's just the wayI write. I think he's done a really good job. You about ageso there. Actually you've got structure. By talked to loads of creative geniussin what book. They've got no structure what they do and they're all overthe place. But I think you're about age there. You've got a reallygood job. I was like, Oh my God, you know me togo have like a bottle of champagne. To get that from an editor amazing. Yeah, so that was a that was a really good feeling and Iwas like yes, I turn like I thought, yes, I have allthis knowledge of my head. Yes, I can put it down and paper. Does it make any sense to a reader? Make sense to me.But you're thinking about a third party. You think about where this book nowis gone. I mean I'm getting both days of a people who I workwith showing like send to be pictures of...

Ben with the book in like SouthAfrica, sold across France, Germany, Australia. The biggest market so faris the UK. Seconds is us. Where it's going. I think abouta hundred and seventy books now have been sold in the last two and ahalf weeks. To think people will run the world of picking this up andnow reading it and now costing free judgment on it, which is kind ofa little bit it's quite dorm thing. But I've had ten five star reviewson Amazons. They thought which some people who bought the book and I hadn'tprompted them anything. So that that's made me feel very, very good andmaybe giving me a little bit confident, probably about myself. And I havea comments abent those demons. So I want have well, I I thinkyour brave as hell. I think you're daring. Greatly right, you're inthe arena, and I love that quote as well, and so I am. You're an inspiration to me and I think that's so many people, especiallyin this community right you know, as I've started to do this podcast andmeeting a lot of our leaders and members, these people are so driven, they'rethey're curious, they're hungry and not you know, I think the stereotypeas revenue leaders is that you're hungry for money, and when I'm actually findingis that you're tenacious and that it's that tenacity that helps you get the byproductof Avenue. But you're driven by so many more things, and so Ihave a strong feeling that this community is full of people who have book ideas, business ideas, anything that requires you to be incredibly vulnerable, put yourselfout there, risk it failing, and and my hope is that hearing yourstory, especially during a time when a lot of the world might not havetaken something like this right to you know, Covid is represented such a unique momentin time for so many of us, and I think for you to takethat and be bold and do that simultaneously while having a family, whileyour wife went back to school. Those are those are big who read backto nothing. Yeah, you're insipration for me for sure. Well, Iknow how sad that, but I do think it's got to he's got tokeep going forward, keep going forward, you know, and if a bookyou's in you, it is an amazing thing to do. It is alegacy that you'll leave behind, you know. So my you know, and somebodyto me point out the other day that you know that's gonna this bookis that I'm going to sit on the shelf in the British library. Way, you're my years and my kids, my kids get yeah, Lee,grandchildren, great grandchildren, all let the stuff. You know, that wouldbe. Who was this guy, that brain, you know, this thisin between date of and day? Who Died? Dash in between? Whowon't he and and they can get up and now. Well, actually,he needs you kind of do something about polership, which for me is,you know, it's a legacy and if you're going to, whatever your reasonis, the doing it, whether you're tenatius or not, it's probably dowhat kind of character should you be if you're going to if you're going towrite a book? But I think everybody can he's got at the time andthe will power to do it, because there are highs and life and youknow, if one of the traits tenacity, then tactic, I think you know. You ask me today just to write, to write a book,I think he's going to be enthusiastic and have a little bit self that theyyeah, there's there's a great book that I've I've recently started reading. It'scalled the war of art, not the art of war, which is alsopopular, but the war of art, and it's all around exactly what youjust said. It's the ability to get started each day, that it doesn'thave to be perfect and you don't have to complete at all, but theability to just have the discipline to start and follow through, and that sometimesis the biggest challenge when it comes to art and creativity. Matt what's nextfor you and what's next for the partnership principle? Is there? Is therea part too like are we? Are you now a serial author? Whatare we going to see from you, who so not of plans, lotsof plans, I think primarily I've hooked on to this, this idea witha fellow or see member called Sebastian and head and cronus. He's a he'sa bit of my partner in crimes for all of thee ever since my barkedon this journey. The Basti wanted to do a knowledge council for the revenuecollective in the in the realms of partnerships. He had a background of partial nowchief growth officer for to see web index and he he's come on meon this journey as well as some other people from the alliance world and tomacademics as well. This is this is...

...also being coined. The content ofthis has been coined for the curriculum for a masters in business at Warwick Leaguesand Honystool University. So I might be doing a lot of little bit oflecturing there in partnership. So I'm really looking forward to I think you wereElon's got a book in them and everyone's got baby teacher in them as well, I think, any reason, but I think we've all come together andwhat we're looking at is true. How do we treat more of a kindof pact called the knowledge from this. So the partnership principle is really designedfor the revenue leader who wants the scenario plan, budget, slow, PLApuntships with a bit of a budget, so or not with a bit ofbudget, the May be, but using tips and tricks. So I thinkwhat we're going to try and do is do maybe create a website, havea platform where people can in age with, have some educational institutions, do somepodcast at some information about different areas and topics that are that are raisedin the book. have lots of influential collaborators coming on board who actually caninput into this world partnership so that we can create greater awareness of the disciplineof partnerships and really goes go have some expert solve some of the challenges thatthat revenue leaders leaders have and all the typical they have. So this kindof form there everybody can be gage. So really early day starting to talkabout that. Watch this space. Something might some might be coming up that. And you know, I I really hate see on my own work,enemy, I really am, but I do see another book and I'm Ithink it's it must be like when you get a tattoo and you have atattoo and you think looks great, I'll I could do it another tattoo.It might it get I think it. What's your really want? It comesa bit of an addiction. So it does take time, granted, butbut I'm thinking of kind the next level up. They I'm moving. I'vegot my partnership division going. I might have employed a channel managing now fulltime. I've got my kind of ecosystem working at the moment. It's kindof David and glide methodology that I talk about, but and it's running.And now I want to invest any infrastructure and invest in the officer get withthe quite ready and the kind of way. That's what I wanted to do withwith Signalavia. where I move now is to take very much the methodologyand all the kind of imtelligence around the input within the book and apply that. But then now look with with the investment that Signalavia has had, lookat really started to build out a proper enterprise ready partner model which they cantake the market across the globe and they go go, let me just goglobal now. So to that that's the intent and maybe basically success that thatmaybe there's I love it and I think that you know. I just inour brief conversations and some of our precall it sounds like this is the startof your knowledge share. But to your point, there's the building on thatand I am grateful that we have you as a member of the community andI'm grateful that you shared your story today and you, as I said,inspired me to be a little they're a little bit more greatly. So thankyou for that. Good. They do it well that. That's our rapfor today. This has been this has been a great way to spend mymorning with you, I think your afternoon. So thank you for that and we'llsign off and see this community next week. Yeah, awesome. Thankyou, Rene. Collective part of book. The money does go to the MindOrganization for those of challenged with mental healt. So fit support that great, great charity and that you if you do bought it, booth, pleasedo leave a review and, if I will be necessary to people, isn'ton Amazon? Is that the primary way? Just look up your name, MattBray and the partnership principal, and that's where they'll be able to accessthat. Yeah, just order talk in the slush. All the POLISHIP principal. Well, my name and and you'll see it there. It's got theMIC Lans Goo to hand touchain on the front cover. That got a backingof adggitable pubble complish it. So bought a book please, and raise moneyfor a great call. Absolutely, Matt. Thank you and we'll talk to youagain, hopefully as you begin to work on book number two. Yeah, well, all right. Thank you so much. Big Thank you toMatt Bray, the author of the partnership principle, for joining us today.This episode was brought to you by Sindoso. They deliver modern direct mail, personalizedgifts and other physical impressions that make...

...your outreach more personal. All right, crew, that's it for today. This is Casey let cord in,your host, and thank you for joining the revenue collective podcast. See younext week. All Right, a little bonus addition here for our revenue collectivepodcast community. Matt and I just had some time, or we talked aboutreally the journey of how he got to the book right and what the bookwas about and life experiences, and then he had ever riffing and we're like, you know, it's really frustrating. Not even knowing where to start ifyou want to write a book, and Matt was just sharing with me somesome really tangible pieces around like how does one even sit down and say,okay, I'm going to write this book and I'm going to start today,and so we thought it'd be fun to do a little follow on. Soif you're still listening, then you're getting the bonus episode here. Matt.Let's talk about the writing process one hundred percent, because I think that's oneof the biggest blockers. Do you actually getting get? Where do I stop? How do I get this hold bout, this guy, and you can siton that for deternity and not right a word. And I did alot of research in before I started in how I'm going to do this,and there was a ton of informational line. There was self publishing, consultant forums, all that sort of stuff that give you all these top tips inthe Luwa for you to use their services and pay an astronomical amount of moneyto have a mentor or a guide or something like that that, quite honestly, you don't need it. Save yourself the money by you can do it. So, but it's the starting right. So in itially one of the thingsI read when I was talking to research and borrowing a lot of research, is it was like say some time night and give yourself goals. Lastnumber one. But why are you doing this? If it is money led, you're going to fail. But I say now, do it for money. You have felt in fact, very few authors actually make any money.So I got to sell five hundred and sixty eight books to break even,just to give you a just to give you a much in be it's donewhat you shared. So I'm excited for you that two and a half weeksin we're twenty percent ago. We're very Hallelujah. Right, you've got togo a month ago. So wonderful, right. But if don't do itfor the money, do it for credibility. Do it because you want to furtheryour career, you want to break out, go into consulting, youwant to do it a drive money for a charity or somewhere. But butjust don't do it for money. Right. There's so many other reasons. Sosay they've goals. Also say some time, I must get it doneby them. Now. I had a compelling events which was I agree tostart signavio on the seven September. So I had between what I decided togo the follow and then step away from from sales strips to kind of endof firlow go and covid and lockdown to start a signalvio. I had that. I had that space. So I had to get it done by thenbecause when I started to go it I wanted to give all my attention tothat. So that was my tiny compelling events. With that in mind,I could stop. So it was why I really was going to what wasit going to write about? So I found mind mapping my chapters really important. To have your structure in your head with roughly how you how you wantthe outline of the book to go. So you'd have like your core subjectand then from there you'd had your sub categories and then from there you haveyour spidergrams coming out and and all your thought process. And then is reallyjust prethinking. Just write it down, write it down, work down,just sparring and to understand like as you can give yourself maybe a bust ofthirty minutes or an hour and just do it and take a break. Theycome back and like a little bit later and have another gay. We justdo that until you you've got like a chapters that you're happy with and bigmind maps and just stick them on the wall. Right. There are differentother methods you can apply, but I use that one. I found thatreally, really helpful. And then, now you've got your outline, youwant to hit your core chapters first. You know roughly how you're going toyou're going to do it now. This is the trick. Right, followthis right when you write just right, don't stop writing, just keep writing, writing, writings righting, right thing. If you you made a mistake,doesn't matter. To keep going and just right, right, right,right, right. Whatever comes is your...

...head, based off the past thatyou're following on your mind that. Just keep writing. Do Not Stop andedit as you go along. You'll go back to your edit and you'll loseyour train of thought and will take you forever to get back on your trainof thought and carry on the way you're writing. All right. It's anightmare. So I and I fell into that track when I started doing it, but I took to write the core chapters, the preface and acknowledgements andall those pieces to be the best part of the months of just writing.That's your first kind of hurdle, but get it done there. Then you'reonto kind of face too, and that's editing, all right. You gotto edit, edit, edit, edit, edit at it and just carry onediting. And then you're going to find pieces that should slot and chatpiece of chapter one should have been in chapter four and chapter three should havebeen to check the one. You're shifting around and you're changing the grammar andyour dusting your eyes and crossing your teeth and getting really into the weeds andfurther into the weeds and furthers the weeds and try to make logical kind ofcent of it all and what you've doing, and only when you're in a positionwhere you're really, really happy. I was on my twelve edit andanother thing that I did as well was I starts who I've bought it acartoonist, because obviously business Bush a bit dull. So I wanted I hada cartoonist from a both famous magazine, is a friend of a friend whodoes cut into the private eye, the spectator, and he did I wantto line up for was finding things and putting in cartoons of beings, justa bit of humor, and I employed an external creative artist separate to dothe cover, the spine and the and the back cover. That's quite ascience of the last actually. So I recommend doing that. But once you'vegot got all the kind of manuscript together in the Douney of ten or eleventhedit I was, then use a professional editor. You can go on toupwork. You can get those recommended to you. I said, I gotrecommended that Doug Williams by our Ross. However, you can go to upworkand there's loads of freelancers offering the trade on there and they will and theywill help you at a reduced price. You know, you can get agood editor for about seven hundred two thousand dollars and then they'll do the copywriting, the proofreading, the editing, everything that you need to do. There'sa fair I gave it to the editor and they came back and I meanit was brutal. WHO's brutal for a reason? You know he is.He's respond as were. Well, you've gone straight into a subject here withoutwarming up the reader anywhere in previous chapters. The way you write is quite fractional, like it's like you're like you're not writing telling some of the storyyou're you're, you're presenting this, you have to change your sentence architecture.My referencing was diabolical. So there is a there are specific formats of referencingthat you must apply for a bibliography, referencing the website, journals, articles, this sort of stuff that you have to apply in footnotes and end notes, and I got to I got a real brus like the backside on thatone. But I yeah, that has been a time because the readers gotto know where you've got that information from if they wanted to sue it further. So so there's always pieces and then there's a three or four runs withthe editor on that really cleaned it up, and then he would then format itin specific formats, that kindle and paper back through Amazon. We useboth Amazon self publishing, so that print on demand and kindle. They willtake the royalties and else's that the printing class. But there you walk awayfrom about thirty percent of the gross of just to give your hands up.And then there's another site called draft to digital that do every other digital booksellerin the in the world. That's kind of Apple Bookstore and lots of others. So it's in so now you have to reach a wide audience. Soit's in every every Amazon domaincoms that UK got an Owl, but CEA everywhereother world, and then it's in every digital book set up around the worldas well as there. And once that is done, that is your book. But you are out there and you are in the public domain and itdoesn't stop there to suddenly there are people that come out the would work fromall over the world who just want to chat and want to say hi andI've picked up your book and I started reading it really interesting. Any tellme here. So you find I did a bit of publicity on Linkedin andI probably should do a lot more of...

...it to be on it. Butit does take a natural course of its own. But it depends how hardyou want to go at the publishing piece, because I think the publishing and raisingawareness your book, the marketing of theselves of it, is as bigas the writing of it itselfs. So it doesn't stop when you finished writingit. It's what you do next and that's the journey that you're going totake if you write a book, and the kind of processes you you whatI used, but I would thoroughly recommend you use and if I'm all that, you're to reach out to your linkedin and you got any question on thatand more than happy to help you, because I'm all for people sharing theirknowledge and giving back in our community of the art seat. I love thatwe went one step deeper, because that's the I think it's so many people, whether any creative medium, writing a book or even a podcast, itcan feel overwhelming if you are not technical in that space, to be ableto get started. So what I heard from you, if I had todo the Tldr, is that it is one doing some mind mapping and generalresearch on how you might be in to structure a book. That was veryhelpful to you. You mentioned a lot about freewriting. Don't don't edit yourselfas you go, but get the ideas out of your head into paper.You can always go back and then you know sort where concepts go. Youmentioned twelve rounds of editing. was that that was you, and maybe immediatepeer group. Is that what that looked like? That is me. Thatwas then you went and got an editor and you were fortunate you had apersonal contact that that had inroads into that space. But you've referenced you know, UPWORK or others websites in which somebody might be able to go find athird party to help with that process. Yeah, you will say that kindof TAT. You will take a lot of money, the kid a lotof people. I think. This is where these sort of experts or mentalsin publishing or helping you write a book are out there, and these kindof self published with us, you know, and they'll charge you for to fivethousand dollars for a series of one to ones. That would given periodof time to help you through the kind of emotional roado coaster that you're goingto have a run the book and now playing that. Yes, we havechannels that you can sell your book through with other but you have to payextra for that. They'll have an editor for you can that they would recommend, but you have to pay extra for that, you know, but theyyour guys and you can spend easily four plus grand you on one of these, these kind of mentals, which I think it's a complete waste of money. But for me anyway, you know, and I did it without one,I did a lot of research. So you thought, you know what, I can probably do this with self. I follow follow the process, gotmy goals, got my Mostivation, I got my mon Joe's just kindof just keep going, you know, I could probably do this and andI went for it. When I started started writing, it was just Ithink. So, I like right, right, right, right, right. She keep going to keep going, keep going, you know, andthat's that. That was the odd I just do that. Keep doing that. I can get through it, and then I'll do my editing. Ican keep doing the editing. You keep doing the of you keep going atit. I can do it, you know, and then use her herand the money. I say from going through one of these mentals, sayfive grand to I probably paid about a grand eight hundred. The cartoonist isprobably the most expensive. He was about a thousand dollars for thirteen cartoons.So us for a friend the way you've got, you've got there with me. Say Yeah, and then be the desire. Only that creative office wasabout three hundred dollars and then the editor of the said was about it's not. I'm just to court back to one. That was probably yeah type of price, and I say three grand in the press more. Yeah, Ithink that that you know what I'm hearing here, is it? There areresources available finding a mentor for sure, or at least you know support systemsthat have been through this. I know you had that. This revenue collectivecommunity is a great one. You know, people reaching out to you if theywant to get in touch. You mentioned linkedin email. What is YourWhat Is Your Slack Candle? My flat has. Oh, it's just aboutbright, I think. Yeah, just let me off on the other thiecme on the on the Roden Class Bat. Weicht say hon you know, excellent. Well, I, Matt, thank you for thanks for getting downeto the nitty gritty of what it's like to actually do the book, andI I'm excited to see what comes next and I'm hopefully excited to see howmany other members begin to go on this...

...creative journey themselves. That's that's whatmy my selfish goal is, is to see a bunch of more people outthere telling their stories. Yead it, give back, give me another spack. So it's all about exactly exactly. All right, crew, will thingsfor tuning in for our our follow on. Matt Bray, the partnership principal.Go buy it on Amazon today. All right, thank you, thankyou,.

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