The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Ep 150: Outsourcing SDRs w/ Catarina Hoch

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 150: Outsourcing SDRs w/ Catarina Hoch 

Part of the "Is This A Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton.

Hello everyone and welcome back to the pavilion podcast. I'm your host. Brandon martin you're listening to Is this a good time to show where I put Pavilion members on the hot seat talk for 15 minutes. It's really fun, shows her out Tuesdays and thursday. So hit subscribe. Don't miss any of our experts. Today we are talking to Katarina poke. She is the VP of global marketing and operatic outsourced SDR company and we dive into just that should people use Sdo outsourced SDR. When does it work? All that other good stuff. A lot of fun this month sponsor is Sindiso Sindhu. So the leading sending platform is the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic points throughout the customer. Great. Like connecting digital and physical strategies. Companies can engage, acquire and retain customers easier than ever before. All right, let's do this. This is episode 71. Is this a good time? All right, everyone's so excited for our guest today. We have Katarina hope she's a VP of global Mark Marketing and operatic based in London. Really interesting company that does outsourced SDR. So carrying a so great to have you on the program. Thank you for having me excited to be wonderful. Well look, we all meet no filler. We jump right in. So tell us about the role that you're in and what the company does. And then a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today? Sure. So I'm the VP marketing and Operatic since we are a global outsourcers. Tr company, we've got offices in London and in Dallas covering north America and the media And we have to be suspenders generate purple and revenue through our 150 str so we've got quite a big team and I've been in the role for about five years now. I actually joined the company as an str And made my way up to...

...where I am now. So yeah, 19 times. That's incredible. So how long were you in str I did it for six months only and I actually joined in the working within the german market. So as you can hear, I've got a very german accent and I'm half german, so when I, but I joined the project, I was covering the german market and then after six months they opened a role for a global marketing manager, which I applied for because my background has always been in marketing and I got the job and then here I am now, wow. And what were you doing beforehand? Like give us a little bit of your, you know, your path to getting too operatic. Yeah, sure. So I kind of landed in the nasty, I roll a bit by accident because I used to live in brazil before. So I, I was born and raised in brazil some half Brazilian half german and when I moved to the UK I didn't speak english. So I had to look for a job where I could speak german or Portuguese, which were the languages that I was familiar with, um, and that's how I landed operatic season str because my, my background has always been in marketing. So I've got my degree in pr and I've worked 10 years and like agency side, digital agency, advertisement agency, I was running a team within a sorry, fashion magazine in brazil as well. So it was quite different to what I was doing at operatic. So it was quite an interesting way to get into the bit of attack industry for sure. Well, I mean it sounds like you took a step backwards to be an SDR right? Like, I mean that, that, that, you know, somewhat of a larger step back to step forward operatic snow, that you had no interest in getting involved in marketing when you started there. And kind of, they kind of new, hey, we'll start this person at the bottom, but they might be a quick riser. I don't think they, they kind of knew that from the beginning because when I started, I had, you know, they could send my CV that I had a lot of experience and...

...sales and marketing roles. But what really made me get a job was because I was a native german speaker, which was super important for that role And after a while, I think, I guess I was probably over qualified for the role, but because it was a big move from one country to the other, I knew I was, you know, I needed to take a bit of a step back. But when the opportunity came up with the marketing role, I was like, wow that there would be a great opportunity for me to get back into marketing, which is what I really love doing at the time. There still was a bit of a language barrier. So it took me a while to actually improve my english. I'm still trying to improve it by the way, after five years. I but yeah, no, it was, it was quite special because I didn't actually expect it to be so quick for me to be back into a marketing role, which was what I really love doing. And I think it was just me being at the right place at the right time and the company is seeing that I could help them, you know, with, with my whole experience in marketing. So it was like, look, I, I'm going to be the one to say just so you know, you speak three languages. All very, all very different origin languages, right? Like, so, um, that's incredible. And I speak a grand total of one and I'm sure many people listening speak a grand total of one. So I'm always impressed when people learn the language, you know, past their twenties, let's say, right? Like I didn't even have the capacity young when I was younger to really learn what I don't know, maybe one day I'll be doing, go and do it. But hey, super cool. All right, here's the part before we get into more questions. I want you to make the pitch to the audience why using outsourced SDR, like when you should accompany used outsourced SDR, it's for everybody and why is it great? Not necessarily with operatic, but I'm just, I'm sure you take that perspective, but I think it's a controversial subject. Right? So give...

...us the pitch, give us the real, you know, elevator pitch on why somebody should try it. Yeah, So I guess there is a bit of misconception about In the industry, about using our source agencies and I think there is always companies that will be a good fit for that. And companies that just want, right to be honest, we have about 70% of our customers, they have internal str teams and they use us alongside their internal team. And the reason why they would typically use us one is they may have an incredible team that deals with inbound leads, but they really struggle with outbound. So that's when they would use this for more of an outbound approach. Sometimes they have a very good outbound team and they struggle with inbound, so they get us to, to, to the inbound piece. Sometimes it comes down to language capability. So let's say there is a company that is expanding into the U. S. And they have, you know, great english speakers but I need to get into France Germany italy spain and so on. And then often they don't really need a full time resource on that because they just don't have a big enough demand to cover a region with a full time resource so they can hire half german and half a french, for example with operatic and and have that all managed within the same place. Right. And then sometimes companies will come to us because they just I don't want to have the headache of managing an str team or they just don't have the capacity to do that. So especially start ups when they are getting started and they sometimes don't have an office or don't just don't have the structure to deal with the SDR teams so they will outsource the whole function. And what often happens is they realize actually as the company grows, it makes sense for us to keep it outsource because it's just working. Right? So we've got a company that has been our client for about 6.5 years now and start with the part time resource and we have seven wraps on the...

...campaign now because we were just they were growing and we were growing alongside them, right? And they just never decided to take it in house. So is there caught, I mean, would you argue there's cost efficiency to hire somebody from the outside versus internally, I'm saying almost specifically on a roll to roll basis, I know that there's efficiency because you're managing them and like there's cost to managing and cost of benefits and so forth. But in general, can your company take somebody who's, let's say less trained, less educated perhaps and therefore may be cheaper and turn them into a better SDR than most others can write like or most companies playing themselves. Is that kind of the pitch? Yeah. Well I guess, and we actually did an interesting podcast with Mark Bertuzzi about that from the bridge group and what you're saying is like when you're on str and you're drawn into an environment where you have like pre sales engineers and then the sales people and marketing people and you're like the only SD out there, you don't really have someone to kind of share your struggles with or like, you know, your frustrations and stuff. We have 100 and 50 people working on the same challenges and day in day out going through the same things and you know, there is a lot of synergy that goes on and that's why um it's quite a great environment for the S. T. A. T. And I think it also comes down to what you said about as nurturing talent and making sure that we can give them all the tools and the methodology and the training to make them successful. So we have some cool stories like one of our reps, he's he used to be an opera singer and obviously with Covid, he couldn't carry on in his job and now he's one of our top performing ramps because you know, we managed to hire him, train him, he goes through the operatic academy that we call, which is our training on onboarding structure. Um and he's just doing really, really well, so it's about nurturing retaining talent and kind of finding the people...

...with the right skill sets to make them successful. Love it, love it. Well, look, I'm so interested in this because it's, it's an interesting way to scale. I've spent a lot of my time and seed a like, you know, the early stage companies, so, but look, I want to jump to some other questions here, of course, we always talk about luck is being a component, getting where you are. Do you have any stories to be the luck or like extreme, hard work that have helped propel your career forward? I think my whole career in the U. K was a bit of kind of the mixture of luck and hard work. I don't, I don't think there is such a thing as like, I think, I think luck is a consequence of hard work and if you think about it is a bit of a compound effect, it's like you do a lot of things right in life for you to see the results out of that. So it's not something that you, you just do one thing, right? And then you get the reward for it, you have to do constantly lots of things right to then see the results on it. There is a book called the slide and which kind of talks about that little bit, which is quite interesting. So shouted there for the, for the audience. But yeah, with with my career in the U. K, I think it was, it was a great example of hard work and luck because I started a job that I really didn't really know exactly what it was that I had to do is nice. Yeah, but I had to experience, I had the skills I got through the trading and I smashed it and then I landed into a job which was what I actually really wanted to do, which is marketing and then here I am now, it's like somebody who wouldn't, some people would call that circumstance, you know, there was, there's a dash of luck in there. So look, I I uh I appreciate the whole uh it's a result of hard work, but there are always little moments of serendipity that propel you forward and thank goodness you know, for for you at operatic that the opportunities became available in the marketing department of thing that you love and you know, so good. Well look, being that you are such an expert in, in SDR work and marketing sales tactics. Give us a...

...tactic that's like a really practical thing that somebody can kind of throw into what they do today. I wonder like what's the best practice that you can share? You know, I don't think there is like a silver bullet in marketing because I'm always a big advocate of like playing the long game, right? I mean but I mean you have to think long the long game, but you have to also make an impact in the short short term, right? Because and bring that to my reality when and when I joined the politics marketing team, we weren't actually a team, it was only myself and we didn't have any marketing in place before. So I had to build everything from from the ground and I needed to make sure that in a company that is predominantly sales driven that they could see valiant marketing. So if I just kept kind of working, you know, the long game, I probably wouldn't have my job or wouldn't grow within my career, so it's kind of finding the right balance between doing the long term right and also thinking about how you can prove value on the short term. So just bring it back to my situation at the beginning, we had a really low budget and I just needed to kind of be able to prove prove myself. So typically what I would do as a low budget, small startup kind of thing um email campaigns or get your str team doing a very tailored outreach, you know, So it's kind of thinking about how how do you balance the brand building and the long term strategy with, with how you can impact things on the short term. Yeah, I mean, look, this is this is the delicate balance of marketing is is we need to hit goals today, but you also need to hit your goals for the bigger and much bigger growth goals for next year and everything like that. So I love it. Um well look, what are, do you have any positions you're hiring for? Uh, you know now? Yeah, well, so we are always hiring for SDR obviously being an SDR company, we always need talented SDR so...

...we are hiring for our office in Dallas as well as in London, we are also having opportunities remotely as long as they are based in one of those, that was one of the things that Covid told us. You don't need everybody in the office to to get people working well. But yeah, scr roll, always, always hiring, we are growing like crazy. So we need more christians love it. Love it. And give some shout out to anybody any quick names you want to mention is people you appreciate kind of what content they're putting out or people that you met that have inspired you and so forth. Yeah, I mean there's lots of people I I admire and that inspire me but I would probably mention a few channels that I kind of, that's where I get my inspiration from. So pavilion is one, you know, I love all the, I think it's great for benchmarking and I love the lunch relax and where you just, you know speak to people that you wouldn't probably have come across before for different reasons and like all the slack channels, there is a lot you can learn on there, Lincoln is a great platform as well. You know, if you follow the right people, there is a lot of free content out there and get tips and tactical things that you can learn and there is the, our podcast as well. So we have a podcast called me to be revenue acceleration. It's hosted by our Ceo and we've got some great guests on there. We actually had some Jacobs there. Yeah, it's me on the platform. I like good and last but not least especially given how diverse your background is. I would love to know, give me a great spot to go. It could be in London could be in brazil, give us a restaurant that we can go seek out. Right. I was going to say my favorite place to eat is my mom's house. Like she, she cooks an amazing german food but I don't think that's going to be open for the world. So uh um no, but well there is a place...

I really like in London which is called Aqua Kyoto is a, is an asian restaurant. They've got a, it's like a, a nice rooftop terrace where you can see London and they've got an amazing food. So a Kyoto love it. We'll check it out. I mean, it's so great to have you on uh, you know, loved hearing about kind of this whole outsourced SDR world and I'm looking forward to staying in touch. Cool. Thank you Brandon. It was a pleasure. All right, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the show, please rate and review in apple podcast, Spotify, send it to friends. Make sure to hit the subscribe button. We love that a reminder. This episode was brought to you by Sandoz. So they deliver modern direct mail, personalized gifts and other physical impressions that make your outreach more personal. Cool. I had fun. This is great. Such an interesting conversation. Hope you do too. Now go crush your numbers. Say something. Mhm.

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