The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

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Ep 14: A Jungle Gym Not a Ladder feat Daniella Bellaire

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A Jungle Gym Not a Ladder feat Daniella Bellaire

Toee Toeete Tetote, hello, everyone and welcome to therevenue collective podcast. I am your launch host Justin Welsh member of theLos Angeles Chapter of revenue, collective and inside of these episodeswere going to feature ideas and conversations that are inspired byongoing discussions within the revenue collective community across the globein inside of revenue collective. There has been a lot of chatter around careernavigation, especially around positioning yourself, to get aheadinside of your organization or the next company that you joined we're going tocover that a little bit more inside of this episode with our guest head ofsails for point of sal at Shopafi, Dinyella Blare, before we dive in withDan Yellow a few quick notes, if you're out there listening and you want tojoin revenue, collective visit revenue, collective dotcom and click apply. Now.I also cannot forget our amazing podcast sponsor outreach. The numberone sales engagement platform outreach revolutionizes customer engagement bymoving away from silend conversations to a streamlined in customer centricjourney leveraging the next generation of artificial intelligence. Theplatform allows sales raps to deliver consistent, relevant and responsiblecommunication for each prospect. Every time enabling personalization and scalethat was previously unthinkable. Okay, let's get the show started with Dinyellowblare. Our guests today is Dan. Yellow Blair.Danella is a two time ahead of sales, with four years of executive leadershipexperience. She is currently the head of sails for point of sal at ChopifiChopafi, I'm sure you're. All familiar is a one point: Five Billion DollarRevenue Company in arguably the best multichannel commerce company providingtools like ECOMMERCE, pos, banking, fulfilment and capital to helpbusinesses of all size, grow, Din, yellow welcome to the show thanks somuch really pumpd to chat with you to Dagustin. I am also pumpd to chat withyou and and before we do that K. I'd love to learn a little bit more aboutyour journey to becoming the head of sales for pos over a Chopifi yeah forsure so currently had a sales for shopby retail, which you know really ismulti channel platform centered around poinicill for retail businesses, tonsof fun and building and scaling in the last little while, especially throughcoved. You know, if we take it all the way back. You know. I grew up in anNtepenoyal family, single mom, and you know what happens when you have asingle mom. You end up taking your kid to work, so that's really where my mysales career started and I liked to say at the age of twelve growing up in in abusiness where I was working at my mom's fog and I remember toting arounda little cart and selling fresh cut soaps to her customers and that, likeas etched in my mind as my first true, like hustle so now, moving along therethrough high school, worked for my mom and then really got my first taste tosails. After that you know realized I wanted to go to business school aftergraduation, like so many graduates. I was unsure. What do I do? What's mynext step and at the time- and this was spihlike over ten years ago, it waslike women can do recruitment, an hr and that's like a really safe thing todo, and so I thought, okay, you know ill I'll, try, R and see how that goesand fast forward. It was a total. It was a total bore. It wasn't for me, Ireally liked in the recuitment piece the aspect of sales, but I couldn'tcontrol my commodity. You can't predict people showing up to interviews Etceraet CEERA, so I realized I. I wanted something more stumbled and fumbled mywayas most twenty something year olds due ended up in banking banking sales,which was also you know for those of bbengi, sells, I polgers, but a littlebit of a total bore as well, and so for...

...me it just wasn't the culture that I Ithink I was hungry and looking for at the time and then Lo and behold, one ofmy friends as it somehow happens. One of my friends was like yeah. You knowthis company they're hiring like text sales is really popular. Now you canget on commission, you can make so much money like you'd, be grated it you've,St Yu, not going personally, and I thought to myself like. Oh you know,that's really interesting, commission they're going to train me, so I endedup at a company called soft choice, and that was you know me. Finding my tribequickly became top performer, then mentor. You know building and scalingenablement from. There then became a manager. I liked to call this the sortof jungle gym approach and then building and scaling teams, and afterfour years I was leading mid market for Canada, and then I got another sort offriend over wine as it happens and you're chatting, and this friend saidyou know, Ho'd be really great in the start up world and I was like Oh startup yeahe that that sounds really interesting and it's like Y W, hey thiscompany just got seed funding, they'R, Canadian. You know the next toby Lutkifrom Shapafi. That was literally what howt was pitched to me and you canreally grow your creer and at that point I was hungry for learning hungryfor knowledge, and I really wanted to stretch myself and it was super scary,but I took the leap so ended up J joining a company. That's really how Igot into exact leadership, and I sort of just fell into it and learned a lotalong the way I did two years at a company called Sevenchef, so scaledfrom employed twenty to employ o hundred and fifty went up to y. u nowzr to eight million an Arr and then at that point. Similarly, you hear fromYour Pur Group, Oh shopafies, doing this really cool thing with ponicilretail two years had passed and I thought well. I really need to investmorn myself and aline myself to others. You know they're smart in building andin the startup community. It's really the network that you have and not moreso the people that are in the start up that you learn from all the time andthe rest is history here. I am I'm almost a year in the role and it's beena wild wild ride, building and scaling this team. So we were about threepeople when I started and were almost at fifty is in pork. Congratulations, Iyou know. Shoppafis is such an awesome, an awesome brand I mean wh, I think oflike really keybrands there're, just one that stands out, especially throughthe coved crisis. So you know. One thing I hear is I heard words like youknow fell in, or you know, took this sort of jungle gym approach, and youreally had this sort of non linear path to leading sales, and you know when Italk to sales leaders. Sometimes they have a very straight line: CareerGrowth, AE manager, director, VP, now you've been in R, recruiting financeenablemen sales. Can you talk about the benefits of that particular type ofjourney as you've made your way? Indue, intochopify, yeah, of course, and Ithink it's so valuable because for so many different reasons Y, you pick upthings along each opportunity in recruitment. I realized I wanted to dosales, and that was the light bulb that went off and and banking. I realized, Ireally loved sales, but I didn't love the product and I wasn't passionateabout what I was selling and so now I knew I needed to do sales I needed tofind a product. I was passionate about I needed to work for a company that Ibelieved in their culture and their vision, and so that led me to tectsalesand I was like wow, you know I love technology, it's you know the way,we're doing things in the future and I can really get behind is, and thecompany invested. You know one of the big draws was they invest in th irtheir new talent. They had a a twelve week, training program when you joinedthose were things that were unheard of to me at the time, and I was like wow.I can really benefit from this, and so those are the things that sort of allthose little nuggets led me to to where I needed to go, and then you know withwith my role being in sales, a soft choice. It was this interesting pathwhere I was in sales and in order to get into sale's leadership, which wasinteresting. I had to step outside of the sales or to get a bigger, broaderlens that was sort of how it was...

...positioned to me, and I thought a thetime. Well, that's really crappy! I just want to be sales later. You knowyou're twenty something you're supernaive and now in hindsight I lookback and I think wow. You know that Opportunity reporting into hr for thetime being. That's where nablemant lived, I built out you know anditerated on this twelve twelve to sixteen week training program. It wasone of the biggest hamoments of my career. Where now I can you know I canbuild out training content I can facilitate. I can coach my managersbetter. I can coach my reps better and I learn so much in that time and itonly led me to be a better sales manager and ultimately, a betterexactlater and a better people leader, so really crazy how those littlenuggets along the way lead you to to where you are and- and it really isbuilt up what I'm able to do now and scaling Shocpfi. I love that Yo know II heard you say I had to step outside of sales or I had to get a differentperspective and I think when we think about traditional career, pathing orgrowing your career, you know there are some really obvious things that you cando to push your career forward in. One of those is just perform. Well righthit your performance bench marks, especially in sales, but I think whenyou have this sort of different or nontraditional career path, there arethings that you have to do outside of that, as you mentioned. So what aresome other key areas that you know you focused on maybe outside of even salesor stepping outside of sales and into a different department? What did you dooutside of work to position yourself to continue growing your career into theexecutive leadership role where you're at now yeah? So you know I thinkearlier on in my career I very much relied on what was being given to mewithin within my company to be successful, and I I then saw peersaround me really upskaling quite quickly as it related to likeleadership and execlatorship, and I thought to myself. Okay, I'm missingsomething here, like you know, there's only so many things I'm going to learnof what's sort of being fed to me and I think people who are in biggercompanies at times you know I've interviewed Managers Wor, like I've,been at this x company, this telecom company or whatever it is for elevenyears, and that's all I know- and that scared me, and so I quickly realized Ineeded to go out and I needed to learn from people. Who'd done it before, andyou know we talk about this a lot as salesleaders, but it's such a simplebut true thing, so reading became a big passion of mine and I'll be honest Y. Ididn't love school. I didn't love the formal education system so to me to goout and buy a bunch of books and make time to read. It was like a but Iquickly realized if I love the content and I love thetopic and I'm passionate about it, I'm going to get into it, and so I juststarted crushing books. So that was the big thing. I also made a decision totake. You know additional courses, so I took different types of coachingcourses. I took different types of leadership courses. I ended up later inmy career, most recently doing a Warton program for exectlutorship on dataanalytics, and so I'm still learning to this day and then outside of just goingout and seeking knowledge. It's the Peer Group right. It's finding people,who've done it. I started combing, my Linton, I started asking people forintroductions and that really lit me up and little fire and the more ABrelationships and the more I talk to people, the more I learned and the moreopportunities that came to me so youre you're, consuming information in theform of books, you're taking courses. You know you're going and you're you'redoing some classes at Wharton you're establishing your network outside ofwork. All those things are are things I love seeing like an when I see someonedoing those things I I know they're ready to start to step up and do aleadership roll, but you know often times other folks hat your organizationmay not see you doing those things. How do you raise your hand like? How do yougo into your organization and say I'm consuming this? I'm doing this, I'mexpanding my network. How do you stand out in an organization and use thethings that you're doing to continue to grow, that at career trojectory forward,yeah for sure you know, and as a woman...

...in sales you W and hate to throw thewomen card? But it's just so true. It's as a woman Insalsyour, an Alspek formyself, as opposed to all women, but you're more inclined to be more humble,your less inclined to Brag you're, less inclined to be boastful, and I feltlike that for a very long time, and so it really took something inside o me tosay. Okay, you know I I've been selling, since I was twelve years old ton yellowyou know, pull it together and you know share the knowledge that you'relearning and consuming with others and reference that knowledge, and so that'swhat I started to do. I started to talk about the courses I was and not justshowing up to meeting saying I guess guess what courses I'm taking, but youknow when it was socially appropriate, saying yeah. Actually, I'm enrolling inthis program, Ou n, even O, my to my direct manager. This was recently it'slike pay. We really love this course. Looking for something on the dataanaletic site as we're doing financial modeling and I'm thinking Warton is theway to go. Here's. Why and here's my take on why I think it could be reallyvaluable one. I wanted him to pay for it too. I wanted him to know and alsoValidat, that it was the right move and Edid and and then it became in aconversation. You Know Oh Dilas, taking this wartong program. Did you know, orOh you know, and so I think just feeling confident enough to say youknow these are the things I'm doing are. These are the things I'm learning andthen referencing them in your your day to day and your job, and I think that'ssuper important to do you. Als, don't want to take credit for something thatK ow somebody wrot in a book. You want to be honest about it and you want toprovide others the same opportunity to learn like you did so bookrecommendations course recommendation. So it becomes this really great way ofyou know discreetly, talking about your accomplishments in what you're doinghelping the company helping your Peer Group helping your team to be better byreferencing, what you're, learning and yeah it doesn't. It doesn't hurt at allthat people know that you're doing those things so really important to dothat. So I I know you mentioned earlier that you kN W. You didn't want to playthe women card, and I can appreciate that, but I also heard some reallyinteresting things in there. I heard confidence I heard boasting, and youknow, as a as someone who let a relatively large sales tam myself. Ijust see that men are more frequently to approach me and boast or beconfident or raise their hand for that that promotion and I'm just curious forsome of the the women listeners who are out there. Was it just a moment in timewhere you gained that confidence, where you decided that you wanted to to putyourself out there more or was there something specific that happened thathelped drive that forward? Yeah! That's a really good question. You know andI'll be honest us in like I'm in M my thirties, my early to mid thirties andM. I would say that if something I stillstruggle with, you know Transparl, and I tell not just the women that are inmy Orgu or in in a crossfunctional or but also the men, and you know, there'ssomething: that's called Impostur Syndrome, it's real! It's not justsomething women face, it's something men's face, but you're right, you're,right that you know men ar are typically more inclined to put theirhand up and be it more boastful, and so I'm constantly battling that and tryingto trying to get a a fine line between pumping myself up. You know believingin myself and one of the great ways I' found, even just in the last ID sayfour years of my career, his mensorship, and so I thought you know. After I'dlearnt to did all the bugs you know took. The courses met. The Peer Groupbuilt the network. I was like something still feels like it's messing and Iactually met with a a pier. He was leading vpcls at a similar size companyin the city, and he and I were chatting- and I was like you know- tell me alittle bit about how you're growing you're velving and he mentionedsomething called an exact coach, and I was like wow and he said. Oh, my CEOrecommended an exact cotch. I said nobody recommended an exact coach to methat that sounds interesting, and so I sought out an exact coach and thensubsequently a few mentors, and so I've...

...tried to find divers mentorship. Youknow different backgrounds, whether it's Fortue five hundred company SCALUPstart up women, men of all sort of shaped ships and sizes, and that hasbeen phenomenal and my last and I'll wrap this up at my last conversationand she'll know who she is when she hears this, but my last conversationwith one of my mentors was, you know her asking tell me, but about what'sgoing on, tell me, but about what you're doing- and I said you know youknow we overcame coved. We did this. We did that we scaled, we pivoted ourbusiness. We did all these things and it was like yeah like wow, saying thatalow that's a lot she's like Y, you Shuld Lake, you go like high five likeyou need to. You need to shout that from the rooftops. This isn't the typeof relationship where you need to be muting n. You need to Brag right nowlike this is phenomenal work and I thought to myself wow like if this, ifI don't feel safe enough to do it with you, I won't feel safe enough to do itwith others, and it was a really interesting exercise. So the t LD Rhere is in ow seat mendorship and don't just Pang everyone. You know in Lindin,but be very deliberate about it and what you want to get out of it, andit's been very helpful for me. I love that and as someone who has alsosuffered from impostesyndrome nearly his whole career, it is very it reallyresinates with me and I think it's such a challenging syndrome to overcome andand when you repeated what you had done out loud and Inhurd youraccomplishments, I'm sure that helps t at that's often what I do I go back andI review my accomplishments, and I say if this didn't have my name on it.Would I think that this person did well and that that's always been sort of away to to help me out with with impostrsyndrome. So I love the factthat you brought that up. That's t to me that's a very relevant topic today.I hear it being talked about quite frequently and I'd be curious. Maybeyou know you've had these mentors you've had executive coaches, I'm goingto assume nd before I do Daniell I'm Goingno assume that you've also mentowards some people. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely so, when you get, youknow a Mente and they look at you and they say: Wow You'R you're, leadingsales you're an executive leader at what is arguably you know one of th,the greatest companies in the world right now. How do you think aboutgiving them advice? What ar maybe the top two to three things that you tryand distil down and pass along from your experience onto folks that youmight be mentoring, yeah, and I think you know some of the things we I'vementioned, but I think it's really important to allow yourself to fail as a a big thing.I think you know Kitty Corner to imposter syndrome and you know notbeing someone who brags is someone who thinks they're just not doing a goodjob and is afraid to fail or admit failure which I think is like evenworse and sort of tries to brush it under the rug. So the first thingreally is: You know, b vulnerable, and I wish somebody had told me that in mytwenties be vulnerable admit what you don't know seek knowledge sea guidanceseek vensorship. For that. The other thing is, you know, an invest inyourself and it's similar to how I've embodied you know practice what Ipreach an enbody, what I've done over the last really more so in the lastfour to four to five years, but invest in yourself and that could be seekingmentorship. You know seeking knowledge, it could be mental health. You knowWewe're living in a world right now where people always feel like they'reon and they're in front of a screen, and so maybe maybe investing inyourself means taking on a new activity outside of work to help with yourmental health, and I do a lot of things like that outside of work to help withmy mental clarity and so for sure be vulnerable for sure, Um, the other, the other piece there andthen I would say lastly aligne yourself- and this is a pretty broad one, butaligne yourself with a company and align yourself with a leader who isgonna, you know, invest in you and you believe in and is going to help raiseyou up. That's also really important, because you can be at a company thatmay never give you opportunities. You can be, you know, reporting to amanager who may never really deeply invest in you and that's at every level.You know. One of the big reasons I...

...drink shop. FY is how many smart peoplewere in this building, not anymore, but how many smart people were were at thiscompany and and who I'd be reporting to and who theyoud be reporting to, and Iknew there was a lot to gain from that longer term in my career, so I wa thoseare t three pretty big things. Those are great, don't be afraid to fail, sobe vulnerable, remember to seek knowledge, guidance and mensorship.Other words invest in yourself. That's a huge phrase that I is one of myfavorites and then aligning yourself with a company and a leader whoill,invest in you and raise you up so three excellen pieces of advice from DanielloBlair and TN yellow. We are KINDOF wrapping up our time here, and thatmeans we have one more segment left a it's. What we call our quickfire fiveand it's just five questions where we get top of mind real answers fromexecutive revenue. Leaders like yourself read to go NAT's go: Let's doit cool? What is he book that changed? How you think about business? Oh God,so many bocks, the one. That is amazing right now that everybody should checkout it's a Nassam talet book called Anti Fragile. The summary Is, you know,simple concepts: Tol Liv, an Anto fragile life. We know that we're supposed to tun of volatilitydisorder stress how in an anti fragile environment, can you thrive, and I lovethat concept, especially as covet hits is you know, we're all working fromhome right now. The concepts in that book, like the one that really stickswith me, is make sure that you have your soul in the game of what you'redoing and build redundancy and layers and as an executive building redundancyand my plan for H, two was like the best thing I could have done, and ahundred percent recommend this book awesome. What's something on heavyrotation in your music playlist today I mean I have to be really honest withyou. I am not usually a big lady Gogafan. Ilove her as a person, but haven't really been big into the music, and Isecretly have an obsession with sort of house. Music Ou know great dance, musicand her new album CHROMATICA is absolute fire and it's on heavyrotation. My household, my wife, I that's all we listen to just solidbeats around the house. I think her neighbors are really annoyed with us. That's awesome, her her makeup artistis actually quite famous now and she went to my high school in my homeroomLitl ack there from a very small town, Chesterland Ohio. TATTHAT BRINGS US twonumber three. Why did you join revenue? Collective yeah, so yeah going back tolike you know, the themes and the narrative of our discussion are arejust seamlessly kind of flowing together, but it really was the networkin the community, and I had heard from similarly a Peeir of mine. We werehaving a conversation over a beer and it was like hey. Oh, have you I. I wasactually asking asking some siffy back on some marketing stuff. We weretesting and I was ing. Do An ide like what we should do. Youra SALSLID versusself served classic question and he said, Oh, why don't you ask the revenuecollective and I thought Oh who's, the Rabbit Classhof, you know and he's Lwegot to get you hooked up. You got to get intapin to this community and sothat's what it was. It was community. It was even just the trust because,when you're part of a community like revenue gellective, it's the trust tobe able to sort of freely open up and share your playbook verses. You knowwhen you had people in Lingdon they're, not always willing to to go that deepwith you, and so it's been a tremendous acid and and building the friendship.So I saw a bunch of people that I knew and I'm also making a lot of newfriendships all over the world, so shut out to Laura out in Ala at Ringana madea new friend recently with her, and that was thre revenue, collective andso unloving. The ability to connect with people hat's out of my city aswell Laura's, amazing, she's, great I've, had a lot o a chance to hang outthere quite frequently B'cause. I'M I've been in L A for the last fouryears and no, I joined revenue collective as an o g when it was justfive people going out to lunch and...

...dinner in in New York and it's so coolto see how big it's gotten. I think, there's o o two thousand three thousandmembers now in the quality of of person inside of it in the the network and therelationship you can buelid is just awesome so so glad that you are in itand that's lit kind of lead into an ex question. It would be reallyinteresting to know what is hi skill, and this goes back to maybe boasting orbeing a little Arr ogant, but like what's a skill that you believe thatyou were world classom yeah. So it's a good question and you know going backto me being not the person, the persones, to push myself to Brag an God.This is terrible, justince, making me think of what I'm an expertit H he'ssuch an asshole and Reri am, and so I thought to myself is a greatexercise. Toyella, you know, pull it together, eat you're great at somethings, and so I think for me you know the two things that really came to mind,especially in what's happening right now is really just changing execution,I'm a huge driver, you know through and through I make it happen, whether it'spandemic or not. We get things done, and so really aligning teams and goalsvery well, so top down, like a lining teams to broader visions and goals andexecuting on that that change and making sure that everybody's bought in'cause that's really important when you're trying to move a ship and- andthat I feel is- is something that I'm quite proud of awesome. Lastly, give the audienceKinda like a life motto or a principle that they can take home with them today,Oh God, life motto or principal, I think you know in the simplest form,just be a constant learner and be adaptable. I think that so important tobe adaptable in any stage of your career, because the only thing you candepend on is constant change, especially if you're in a high growthenvironment and that's part of the draw for most people and for me d and justitbe intentional, and I say that you know I'll repeat it, but be intentionalabout investing in yourself at any level of your career. 'cause learningshouldn't end right, so that would be my two sense. Danielle is so much goodstuff today this was a ton of fun. Tell everyone how they can get in contactwith you if they'd like to reach Yo Pon Lintoln, I'd love to chat love tomake more new friends, so her global air on Lington, and we can go fromthere cool in your revenue, collective slack handle. I is INELA TOR FOR TRONTOAWESOME, Denyella! Thank you! So much. It was great having you on the showtoday learned a lot. Exellen conversation have a great holidayWECOYEA. You too, thank so MUC A C tank. You.

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