The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 12: Fine-tuning your revenue engine feat Jeff Ignacio

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Fine-tuning your revenue engine feat Jeff Ignacio

Toe EEEEEO, tewhat isup everybodywelcome to the revenue, collective cloadcasts on your launch host, JustinWelsh member of the Los Angeles Chapter of revenue, collective and inside ofthese episodes. We're going to feature ideas and conversations that areinspired by ongoing discussions within the revenue. Collective communityacross the globe in today's guest is actually the last person I saw inperson before coded, and we met for a coffee to discuss fine tuning, yourrevenue engine, we're going to talk about that and a little bit more insideof this episode with our guest head of revenue and Growth Operations at UpkeepJefphignassio before we dive in with Jeff a few notes, if you're out therelistening and you want to join revenue, collective visit revenue, collectivedcom in Click, Apine ow. I also want to think our amazing pod Cassponser gonethe number one revenue intelligence platform for emote sales teams. We arethrilled to announce a strategic partnership in which will be bringingyou the best events, content, research and spaces to engage with your peersand to kick it all off. They are sponsoring the revenue clective podcast.We will be bringing you new stuff every month to not miss out stay up to dateon the latest collaborations at Gong, dot, IO, slash, R C, all right. Let'sget the show started with Jepanaucio. Our guests today is Jef. Ignacio Jeffis the head of revenue in growth operations at upkeep the number onemobile first CMMS, an enterprise asset management software buith for theworld's best reliability leaders prior to working at Upkeep Jeff, has spanneda variety of roles at excenter, Intel Google and has since worked at growingstart up, such as vizier and with me at patient pop at upkeep. He supports eachof the go to market teams from marketing sales and customer success,CEFF so glad to have yoon man. Welcome thanksjust then really appreciate youhaving to be on the show. I've actually listened to quite a few of the episodesand have comecame away really impressed with the quality of the content and theguests that you've been able to bring on thanks man. I you know, as we weretalking. pret shows it's like I mentioned. Being a guest is sodifferent than being the host. So I I really appreciate that still getting mymy footing as a host and so feeling like this is episode, I think, fourteenor fifteen, just starting to to thip away what it's like to really be a host,so so appreciate that men Oy. So we always like to start by just gettingthe background story of our guests. The journey that took you to get to upkeepso tell us a little bit about yours, absolutely so I'm a southern Californianative and I'm back here in Los Angeles. But if I go back to high school, thatwas my first job. I was actually selling most people, don't rememberthese, but cutcoe knives was my very sure. Ob- and I remember I I've seenseeing this flyer at my high school to you know: try to find high schoolstudents who are interested in some summer part time work, and so I walkedinto this dusty office at seven or eight a ND. My mother dropped me off andowntown river side and the only Saan teve mit in onboarding I ereceive backthen was this one hour session with thirty other folks, the local manager.At the end of the one hour, they handed you this two page script that they toldyou you had to read verbatum. They gave you some sample product which Iactually had to pay for and then a binder with a bunch of product imageswhich was going to be the walk through or sort of so to speak, the demo back,then an Analogu Damo and a tchart where that Tachart had these five bulletpoints and they said list of five people who would be willing to listento you to present. Who would be your first presentation so I wrote down. Youknow two of my Aunti's, my uncles and my parents. Of course it was kind ofthe last fifth te bullet point, and so that was my real first exposure tosales, but in terms of revenue and...

...sales operations I sort of just fellinto it over the year. So if I go back post ECLA, I ended up buildingmarketing systems for the Medate, entertainment studios for a companycalled excentre and after that I actually decided to where or wer carrythe the bag and so m moved into technology and eventually into realestate sales from there a moved into business school. I went to theUniversity of Michigan and I didn't really know what I wanted to focus ongoing in. But as I exited, I absolutely knew I wanted to focus on technologyand scale, so I' moved to Entel and then eventually after I got my financelegs underneath me, I moved to Kougle and there in the FA role. I supportedthe global sales organization, which sold a bunch of products across adiverse portfolios. So Google APS Google Cloud puple maps D, and thesewere these- are well known products today, but back then we rolled it upinto one horizontal channel called t e Google enterprise and that was verydifferent from its cor advertising business. So it was sort of a businesswithin the business that you know, which is Google and so in the eveningsat Google. I taught myself python I sl and really to y more of it was just toautomate as much of my time as possible, so I can free my hours up from themanual work to folks on the more strategic aspects, and so I'm reallygrateful for my time over at Google. I learned a lot while I was thereterritory design all the things that you know: Rev ops and sails O sfolksthese today, and so eventually. I came to this conclusion where I had thisitch. You know Silicon Valley, you sometimes get the start afitch andI certainly did so. BIGTAK will still be there if I want to go back so, butyo I'd rather take the leap and that Wa, what excited me so I searched for rollsthat looked at the business, not from the rear view mirror, but as close tothe customers, I can get when my skill sets and looking ahead. So that's whereI landed on sales operations and so at upkey, it's one of the one of thegreatest opportunities that I think for Blue Collar Tech, in Los Angeles andLos Angelesis, making a name for itself in that blue collar text base ou Cservice titen next trucking out there, patient pop is an interesting one, withits healt ithis healthcare and Ist neutel sales product and upkeep. SoI've just been here for about two months now and really enjoying it.That's awesome man, I I know Ryan really well to see e over there. That'sthat's a great business. I think with an incredible future, and you know I Iknow that you're leading you know revenue and growth operations, but acommon question that I get from people who are either you know outside ofsales or even newto. SALL's leadership is what is revenue, operations orrebops. So when I ask people that question, I get a bunch of differentanswers. Can you tell me a little bit about how you think about revops? SoRABOBS, in my mind, is when we think about the evolution of revenue. Growthy certainly need the support around those ravenue generators, in order toenable what I call an integrated revenue engine and so from marketing tosales. To C s. There are customers out there and prospects out there who donot wish to become an m ql to an SQL moves from your discoveryes days toyour proposal stage. They don't really care about that. What they really careabout is thes solution journey. That solution journey is trying to identifytherre pains ind, sharing that with a vendor or vendors that have a productor service, that's relevant to them and so ravops is operates under. I thinkfour key components, and- and I call it fast right so, if you're thinking aboutsimplicity, focus alignment and trust than those are the letters in theacronym, so those four pillars allow you to really build a steel threatedexperience across marketing sales, n Cs the last ten years. The departmentshave realized they needed to scale the gains from their process, their systems,their enablement and they've done so by hiring operations. Professionals,whether that's marketing opps, sails ops, casops, but what ends up happeningis even though you've created those gains over the last ten years. You'vealso created opportunity for misalignment redundancy, and so that'swhen you have these opsfolks sitting...

...vertically under each of thesedepartment branches but they're not yet coordinating with one another andoftentimes you have these dotted matrix, reporting, structures and ofsten. Itfeels like you have two or three managers and that can create a ton of confusion, especially asbusinesses start to grow in scale. So you know you and I have worked togetherand we have spent sort of plenty of time discussing the fine tuning of therevenue ention and you just sort of mentioned or describe what couldpossibly be a chaotic alignment between sales marketing customer success inother departments. So when you walk into a new roll as the head of rebops,how do you begin stitching those departments together to hone in onyreally solid process so that the company can scale successfully? Thefirst thing I do is go in and basically be an active listener, just likeenablement will will train their their sells. Their sales folks to reallyactively listen during a sale cycle I'll do the same thing but for therevenue cycle and that's the look at what is conversation to cash across theentire spectrum of the customer lifetime journey, and there are threekey components at every company on their conversation to cash and that'sengagement, which is your lead to opportunity and that KPI there isqualified pipeline. Then there's sale's execution and that's your l opportunityto close win and how you get there, whether it's a transactional, salecycle or an enterprise. There are tried in true lessons that you can build inany any organization and then the customer once they you've acquired thecustomer. That's not where the journey ends is where the journey just beginsis that lifetime journey with them do cross cell or upcell or expand, or eventake their feedback into future iterations of your product, so I' liketo go in and develop that roadmap of what those processes are and then takea look at okay. These are the processes. But what are the teams in the personnelin the systems and the reporting that guides each one of those pieces of thisjourney to maximize the outpror for the organization, and so once I get thatprocess map going it's about now sitting with those go to market leadersand defining what is a roadmap between how do we autcreate alignment, which isone of those fast pillars and then focusing on? How do we simplify thiswith our systems in our process, so I'll go and start mapping what thoseare and then you'llsee a number of process gaps if you want to run a gap,analysis you'll see that really quickly, and secondly, if you're fast iterating,you start to look at okay. What is the two to three or four quarter? You looklike in terms of projects that I can outline for my team that will enablehopefully that integrate revenue engine in a four quarter outlook. So I hopethat's not a long winto Danswer, but is really about understanding what's inplace, doing a gap analysist and then setting a project plan for the for thelong term got it. So you K W once that processdoes get set ceff and you sort of fill those gaps and you feel like teams arealigned everyone's sort of marching in the same direction. I can only imaginethat it it starts to become time to to find tune everything over the next. Youknow four to eight quarters once everyone's aligned and those gaps arefilled. How do the tactics change on the REV opside? Where does the focusshift once everything is aligned? Does it does it always need alinement, or doyou move on and start working on, different things? So if the revenueengine is like a car engine over time, you're GOINNA stress that engine wouldwearand hair through the mileage and same thing happens on a number offronts. I typically come into companies at that series, a series B stage and atthat stage you're simply just building. You often like to talk about buildersfar as optemizers, and so when you're building that revenue engine you'resort of testing things out, you're, building your ideal customer profile,you're, building your segments out you're. Looking at the technology, youmay have almost everyone in the company be a system admen in all of your system.So there's a number of cleanup that has to happen. So when I think about whatthat first, two to four quarters looks...

...like it's really: building thefoundational one to three ABC type: Steps for the revenue engine in yeartwo year, three, you start to face some headwinds in the business. You may rollout new features where you're trying to move up market. You realize the folksyou're selling to are not responding with the same tactics you had in year.One and therefore you have to revisit your playbook and part of that isturning on a Nablement, making sure that you're embedded deep within theorganization working with your marketing and sales leaders, and I'mhoping that in that first year, you've built enough trust and received enoughquick winds that you're now at the position where your two is verydifferent from your one, you're now focused on shifting segament shiftingthe line looking at your systems. What worked for the particular segment youwere s selling to in your one could be very different. You might be rollingout in new portfolios, so you have to take a look at okay, we're now in amultiproduct world, multichannel wold potentially, and what does that? Evenlook like from the type of role coverage that we have? Are we justgoing to be pure outpound should be introduced in bound, should rap, befull cycle should be carve it out and have sales development. So those areinteresting questions and you're, constantly challenging yourselffiguring out how cone Ey finally tune this engine and that's the fun partabout Reb Opser, sals ofs is that year two and you'r three. They all look verydifferent from a Ye R, yer you're, always trying to solve interestingchallenges. So when you W A question that I have is, as you kind of get intosome of those challenges, so let's talk. You know year, two you're three, youknow. Often you have inexperienced sales leader, who's running the theteam, whether that's The v P of sales or a chief revenue officer, and thenyou have someone like yourself who's ahead of rebops. When you start to sitdown and think, do we need full line reps? Should we be going out bound? Dowe need to Fine Tun our inbound program? You know how does the rebopsprofessionals sort of responsibilities differ from the head of sales and howdo those two positions work really seamlessly together when you've seen itwork really? Well so I like to think of the rebops andthe revenue leaders their relationship as a partnership and as a partnership.You have skills that overlap, but you also have skills that are verydifferent from one another, and so what you try to do is not necessarilysubstitute each other but compliment each other and that relies on takingthe ability to balance any gut or instinctive decision making andbalanced that with data driven decision making. Those two can go well togetherif you've ever read. I can't remember the name of the book, but they talkabout type one and type two thinking and that's where you do need both typesof rationele at the table in order to look at a problem from different anglesand come up with that solution. The second piece is there's that sales is an art and salesis a science, and so I've often worked at sales leaders who, who have a littlebit of both in them and ofser folks, are definitely going to be leaning moretowards the science, and so I think that balanced between finding the right,alchemy between art and science helps really well. The third part is holdingyour wreps accountable and making sure at they're getting the right trainingto build the necessary skills to move on upwards. So operations isn't justthat system's person on your staff. They can often be that ennablementplayer that brings new skills and new foundations to the entire workforce aswell, and so, when you use operations not just as a order taker but as achange maker that really enables the organization to take a look at okay. Wehave some marching orders from our leadership baked in that dated decisiondriven decision making that we just went through just planning sessions,and then we laid out what are the systems process and training that needsto go on over the next two for six weeks that we can make sure that oursales team is ready organizationally to...

...hit the new targets by pitching our newproducts, targeting new accounts going after all, accounts that may not haveheard about our new products, and those are the things that I think make adifference between working as a partnership. That's great and you K W. I canremember wh n when you and I work together. You know a patient pop. Onething that was appeared from my vantagepoint to be a challenge is howrebops is supporting so many different teams, they're supporting sales,they're supporting marketing, they're, often working with customer success,and I can imagine that you, you probably hear that a lot sales needs.This marketing needs this like so on and so forth. How does the REBOP leaderor the REBOBS team navigate that challenge of not getting pulled in? Somany directions because they're embedded with so many teams, it's all about focus it's about havinga game plan laying out that roadmap and then working weth, your partners or theCoto market leaders and developing our prioritization. Now we operatein in aworld of not unlimited budget and definitely finite time, and so you haveto know where your limits are in terms of time and spend so you're going tohave to try to identify what are those chest pieces or chess moves that I'mgoing to have them make and I'm going to have to get that buyin from mypartners, and so you start to have a frank conversation of here- are thehundred projects that we could probably launch. But realistically I'm going toneed an army or staff members to get this done andthat's not likely to happen. So what you really should think about is Oky.What can we reasonably be accomplished? And what on that project list is on thecritical path to achieving our targets. So, for example, in your one I wouldthink t its about laying it down the foundation getting that top of thefunnel. Those Leed reengagements, those new, leads fine tuning, your dial thatconnects Fi, fine tuning, all that and all those core engagement ratios andthen layer too in year, two you're starting to think about field,marketing content and trade shows, or whatever space you're in for sales.It's about making sure that we know our ICP our pitch. Let's enrich ourdatabase that we can create the right signals for the sales team, and so, atthe end of the day, you can get lost in analysis, paralysis or you coule focusand create alignment and then get bying on what your next one, two three fourquarter Journeyi looks like, and so that that's how I think about the world when, when you'R, when you're workinginside an organization- and it sounds like you obviously have to prioritize-you have to pick the projects that have the biggest impact. I'm assuming thatyou have to build your team out in a relativelyscalable way to support thedifferent organizations. A lot of people ask me like how should revenueops fit into the executive operation? Should they be reporting up to asalesleader? Should they be underneath the marketing leader or is it therebops leader, is an executive much like a vpvles or or vpof marketing?What have you seen work best in the organizations that you've been a partof to make sure that revenue ops is able to support those stay holders inthe best way possible? So I've only had a limited number of experiences tomyself. I haven't lived a hundreds of lifetimes, but I have a few peers ofmine: Who've shared their own reporting structures, but that can give you alittle bit of my own experience. I've reported to a chief revenue officer whoalso had a peer chief marketing officer, so the CRO was not the only c sweetlevel revenue leader at the company and rather than just being that salesleader. They also had this mindset holistically of viewing the businessfrom from the bottom up all the way to the top down. So really thinking abouthow does marketing impact sales and how to sales impact customer success andhow does customer success basically bring more value out of your customersover the long run, and so the reporting structure to the Siro, in my view, madeperfect sense, particularly if the CRO...

...was a little bit actually more unbiasedaround just focusing on sales. So it was a revenue driven culture as opposedto sales, driven culture and so having that revee driven culture is reallythinking about. Okay, what are the pieces in place that a customer need sohaving that customer centricity kind of bleeds down throughout the entireculture, and certainly within ops as well and t allows offs to know? I havethe green light to basically push back on any projects orplans that we have that are against that customer centricity. If it's forthe benefit of the individual, not the team and definitely not for thecustomer love that Jeffa. You know it's been. It's been awesome, getting achance, O chat with you about this Y. I, like I mentioned in the opener you youand I were together for a little bit and I can still remember sitting in aroom with you and I was trying to figure out how to improverepproductivity and for some reason, this. This sticks out to me thisexperience with you or you said, hey. I. I took a look at these three folks onthe team and you know when they pitchd dentists instead of doctors. If that's,if that's all, they did, you would have done one point, one million inadditional revenue last quarter- and I remember just saying this- is why thisis part of the reason that I need a repobs team, because I was so focusedon just improving repproductivity, and I can recall you sitting there andsaying here's a million bucks that you wouldn't a have uncovered had Icontinued thinking that way, so it just really interesting, as I grow as aleader to understand, tha the benefit in the value of revenue operations andhow they stitch together the organization, so I've seen it firsthand and really appreciate talking with you about it today and we're actuallynearing the end of of our time here. So we j usually do one more segnent at theend of our our interviews and it's called our quickfire five. It's reallyjust five questions where we get top of mind real answers from executiverevenue leaders like yourself, You'e Ready, I'm ready fire up awesome. Whatis a book that has changed your outlook on life, one of the greatest books that I'veread recently was the first. Ninety days and the first ninety days is abook about transition and change, and in that book they cover what you shouldbe doing in your first ninety days and one of the first lessons in there isgetting quick winds and getting quick wins is about building credibility andtrust setting you up for successor, I he long term so, if anyone's goingthrough a peri transition where you've been promoted or are you taking over anew team or if you're, taking on a new role, I would absolutely adgest youread that each and every single time, nice, I literally just read it so allsalso agreed- is a great recommendation. You're getting really excited for agreat day at work, WHO's, an artist that you're listening to. So I grew up listening to a lot ofunderground, hip hop and the last couple of year I've been Liseng to alot of electronic music, but lately I've been really into this wrappernamed logic. He has t a song called. I work hard every day and if you haven'tseen the Mus video, it's a complete riot and it's something that I getfired up listening to all right. I will check that out. What is your mostcontroversial perspective on the Startup World Today? So I hear this alot from revenue, folks and salesfolks. They always say: Well, that's not aproduct, the it's not a product. They have over there. It's a feature,they're just building a feature. I think that's that's the stome, becauseyou know when you're a feature or a product. That's all relative to me. Youhave to pick a lane and go after it, because, if they're selling that onefeature hammering away at it, they're essentially building a castle anddefending M building a mode around tha to defend their core, which they'lleventually be able to extend their share by looking at new features. So Ialways think when people say H, you're, building a fuature, not a product, Isay that's BS, keep going after it. You believe in your product, you're Goingtokeep building from there Co. What's something that JEPOC Naio isworld classin? Well, I try not to be cocky about these things or anything,but I would say you know there are...

...operation spokes out there who whocould run lapse around me in terms of technology, but I think I have thisgreat intersection and understanding of process systems and business acument,so putting those three together and a ven diagram allows me to translatebetween the technical folks, the business folks and the folks who arereally thinking strategically, so I'm able to kind of navigate as a chameliondo to dos three audiences. Lastly, give the audience your lifes motto orGuiding Principales something they can take home with them today. If KOVE DIS thought I's anything, it'snot how often you fall down it's. How often you get up Nice Jeff. It is always great to talkto you. Man Tell everyone how they can get in contact with you sure they canreach out to me on linen and if you're a revenue, collective member, you canreach out to me at my handle. Jepagnaciolax Jeff, really appreciate it greatcatching up with you. I think you're, the last guy that I saw precoven for a cup of coffee or, likethe last human human being. I've had physical contact with so it's nice tonice to chat with you again, and I hope that you and I can grab a cop, a cup ofcoffee again SOM in person, man wos, who was great having on the show,thanks for doing it, daitly Bak, Justin.

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