The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 11 months ago

Ep 181: Driving Urgency In Deal w/ Jason Saline, VP Sales CB Insights

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 181: Driving Urgency In Deal w/ Jason Saline, VP Sales CB Insights 

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, welcome to the Pavilion podcast. Thank God it's monday, it is now 2022. I'm your host, Tom Alaimo excited to bring you the tips, the tricks and tactics that revenue leaders are leveraging to make their careers more successful. Um really excited Today's interview, I've got Jason Celine, he's the VP of sales over at CB insights in beautiful new york city. He is also a Pavilion member and this is actually taking a conversation that I had with Jason during my millennial sales podcast. I host this podcast specific for young sales people that are trying to make a dent in their career. Um, and we had such a great conversation that I wanted to share this all with you folks as well, especially as we're either kicking off the new year or possibly closing the fiscal year depending on what schedule you're on nowadays. So definitely be sure to check out the millennial sales podcast as well if you are in sales and looking for a new show to check out. Before we get to my conversation with Jason, I want to a quick shout out from our sponsors. So this episode is brought to you by show pad, the open end to end platform that makes me to be buying and selling easier, transform your team to have a high impact and differentiated customer conversations in today's environment. I want to see a revenue enablement technology that provides every customer facing team was required skills, knowledge and contact to have impactful conversations with your buyers and to show pad dot com to learn more and now let's get into my conversation with Jason Selene. All right now on the millennial sales podcast, we have the VP of sales at CB insights. Jason Celine, Jason, how are you tom great to be here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you on an, on an evening, a late evening or late this evening in new york city joining me. I can see the darkness from the windows behind you. So I appreciate you coming on. Of course, of course, actually in New Jersey, recently moved from new york city but still a new yorker in my heart. Okay, Alright. Yeah, same, similar, similar, similar region house the end of quarter looking for, we've got six weeks left. You got your timelines mapped out or what? Yeah, it's, it's fast and furious. Uh you know, it's a mix of trying to close out where we can close, but also plan for next year. So always a delicate balancing act, but a lot of momentum right now, a lot of excitement uh and yeah, feeling good about closing out the year. Strong, nice. There was a, I don't know if you saw it, but my colleague Devin read, put a blog today about when, what the likelihood is of someone signing a contract throughout different days throughout the holidays and just how unlikely it is for uncertain days. Um and I think we know that intuitively, but um, that definitely lit a fire under my assets like, oh wow, okay, we don't have a month and a half we have like a month you take out thanksgiving week, we have like three weeks. Uh and so the pressure's on, but that's what we signed up for and and that's pressure is a privilege. Yeah, we've been uh we've been sort of championing this December 10 mindset right, just as of November one, just thinking what we can do and how we can rally to make that as the date that we align on just so we do have a good buffer before christmas and and for us now actually the end of our fiscal quarter and fiscal year is january 31st. So we're gonna get that sort of double dip with end of the year in the calendar, then the end of the fiscal, but you know, all of our, all of our data and everything we have seen in the past is Having a big first month of the quarter just sets the stage and if you don't do that, it's a lot harder of course to hit your quarterly number and then your annual, so trying to do what we can in that first half of the quarter before December 10th. I love it. And and my my director is pushing...

...december 17th so that that week, so you're giving yourself three weeks, do you have any tips for, for reps out there that are listening that I guess this is applicable to any quarter trying to drive timelines but around the holidays and in any years, just so there's just so much going on. So any any thoughts on that, Like how, how you're coaching the team to do that? Yeah, I think it's like anything right? Like of course we have the, the levels we could use right with just prices going up next year and uh, you know, discount and that sort of thing. Extra features, extra users. But I think ultimately it's just establishing two things up front, which is the business value and the strong champion. Um, you know, making sure that we have that from, from the first call and, and really being diligent on opportunities where we have that and really being honest and real with ourselves when we don't have that and inspecting and trying to get that pretty quickly if we don't, and if we're not, if we don't have that, then prioritizing other ops or or finding option we can, because, you know, that's, I think that's really where it comes down to urgency and what you can close versus what's more of a hope cast as we say, or, you know, not, not sort of living in reality. Yeah, that's super helpful. Um, I'd love to get into your story a little bit. So, uh, michigan grad, I'm a, I'm a Michigan fan because I'm a Tom Brady fan? Uh, so for the last 20 or so years, I've been rooting for Michigan for the sole reason that Tom Brady went there. So I guess I'm on your side. Um and you went straight from there into the finance world, right? I did, yeah, so, uh also happy to talk about michigan because although we had a tough loss to michigan state, I think we're back and we're set to beat Ohio State finally in a couple of weeks, so look forward to that. But yeah, we'll see championship mindset, Well, we'll see what happens. But yeah, so, You know, grew up in New York and Long Island went out to Michigan for four years, Came right back essentially right after college and and entered finance for the first five years of my career. And that was really sort of all I ever wanted to do. That was uh sort of my envision in myself and my career and uh entered it, but I entered it in an interesting time. I graduated in 2008 and I actually graduated three months after Bear stearns went under and then about four months before Lehman Brothers went under. Um and so it was definitely uh interesting start and an interesting time to join that field. So coming out of college, right, like while you're studying, um why? Like, why did you choose finances? That's something that people in your family, did you just were drawn to numbers or maybe you didn't know what, what the hell you wanted to do and that just seemed like a good route to take. Yes, so no one in my family was in finance, my mom actually was in, in sales, which sort of led me to the path I'm on now, but I was just always into the stock market and was following that from a young age and you know, started researching stocks, buying stocks, watching CNBC, um doing all that I could, to to educate myself on that and uh yeah, I just thought that was where I wanted to build up my career and you know, fast paced, exciting and um yeah, I just felt like that was for me, how old were you when you bought your first stock? It was probably 13 or 14 years old, I would say. Um yeah, just middle school era kind of just messing around a little bit and trade accounts, it was actually Exxon mobil. Okay, so that's, that's probably done pretty well in the last like, I mean you're not As well, not as well as you would think really? Yeah, I mean it's not OK, but not, you know, not relative to tech stocks or anything else. That's uh that's really grown a lot in the last 15, 20 years You just figured like gas like 13 year old kid, he was like, yeah, gas stations will be a thing in the future, like that seems that seems legit enough. Yeah, yeah, I...

I sort of did deep dive into just energy and, and refineries, I was just sort of into that sector and I thought, you know, they're the, they're the conglomerate, they had a nice dividend and uh, it was a weirdly sort of safe, like long term play for a 13 year old. But yeah, it, I held onto it for a while, so it did, okay, That's some that's some wild thinking. I'm thinking of myself at 13 and I was certainly not thinking about uh, you know, conglomerates and and dividend payouts or uh, you know, uh and pe ratios or anything like that. So, um, that's interesting. So you're at the urine, the finance where you get in at that, you know, the craziest time, you know, of our generation really, to probably like, that's the weirdest year to start uh, in that field, and you were there for a few years that you did stick it out before you switched over to sales. Right? I did, yeah, so it was about 5, 5.5 years. And most of that time, I was at a european bank called KBc, I was on their, their new york desk, but we had a european equity research product. And so our clients were hedge funds, mutual funds, anybody who were trading european stocks and then we had research and we would help execute trades for people who wanted to buy and sell those stocks and it was, it was really fun, really exciting, fast paced, a lot of, you know, it was a relationship based sales. So a lot of entertaining and uh, it was really just seeing who could spend more money with you and trade more money with you versus other people who are other banks, other brokers, who were recovering these folks. And it was amazing. I had a great time, but technology was changing that landscape in a, in a big way. So everything was moving to software and you don't really need a brokered execute trades anymore. And a lot of the research ideas, people were just hiring analysts and bringing them into the hedge funds, mutual funds and didn't really want to pay for, for research as much anymore. And so trading costs were going down and, and margins were compressing and it forced me to, to kind of think like, hey, is this the best area to build out my career? And I was surrounded by a lot of guys who were talking about the good old days and you know, 2000 and ninety's and when you're in your mid twenties, it's like, hey, what, what's the future gonna be like, when, when, this is what what the president is. Um, but it forced me to look into technology a lot more and thinking, hey, if technology is disrupting this world, it's disrupting a lot of, a lot of places to, I had also read the Mark Andrews and post software is eating the world, um, that had a big effect on me too. So I started kind of looking around in the tech world and then ultimately made a decision to go sort of full throttle into sass, Did your, your mom's sales career play a factor into that at all of, because you could, you could have done anything in technology, right? You didn't have to go into sales. I'm sure there are other entry level roles you could have gotten. Yeah, so it definitely did. I grew up around sales as I said, and so I, I saw from a young age sort of the the power of just working really hard and putting in the effort and then seeing a return from that and having a direct relationship. One thing at the bank that I didn't love very much was they had an annual bonus structure, which was discretionary. And so you could have worked hard yourself and your team could have done okay. But if something was happening with the bank or there was some regulations or someone else in some other department had a bad year, you were impacted by that. And so I, I like the idea of more, you know, eat what you kill put in hard work and I knew that that sales could offer that. I, I, I didn't really know all that went into it, especially kind of going into two SAs and some of the differences there. Um, but I did know that I wanted to be client facing and I wanted to uh spend my time talking to people and helping them solve problems and just sort of, you know, sort of the thrill of the chase as well. I love that. What what did your mom sell? Yes. So she actually started her career as a...

...court reporter, which are those People who type in the depositions in the, in the courtrooms. And then when she was probably 10, 15 years in her career, she moved into to selling those services. So it's litigation services. And so they sell to law firms and they, anytime a lawyer has a deposition, they need the stenographers now they need video now they need these real time feeds. So there's, there's a whole tech element to that now. Um, but yeah, so she made that transition and was able to do well as a salesperson. She's still selling today. I love it. It's so funny. I've done upwards of 260 of these podcasts and parents and sales came up probably on 10 of the 1st 2 50 it's come up on every single one of the last four that I've done has been a major factor. So I must be some sort of weird coincidence but um, that I, I love the thought that people have a good attitude about sales or a good reflection of it before they get into it because I think most of us think about it as, you know, the used car salesman or wolf of Wall street or whatever, you know boiler room, which um, you know, maybe attract some people and do you know, and, and you know, kind of like Swayze some people from the profession. So um, so you get into the role, your first sales job after going into finance. How what like walk me through? Like what happened were you, were you calling up mom asking for advice? Like were you killing it early on? Like what was going on? Yeah. So when I was still at the bank, I was on linkedin and I was just messing around and I actually saw a role and the title was private capital markets sales executive and the company is called axle. And I started digging around because I'm like, what's axel's, it's some boutique bank with like a tech element, what's, what's going on. But the more I dug into it, it was a SAS product and it was a network for deal professionals for private capital markets deal professionals. And so I thought I could come in DNA, you know, hey, I've got five years experience, I've worked in finance. This should be, it should be fine. And I went in and I, well I, I, I didn't get the interview right away. I applied online thought thought they would take me no problem. You know, here's my resume, crickets for for a few weeks. I found essentially a third connection through a friend of a friend of a friend who worked there luckily he he didn't know me, but he wanted a referral bonus. So he put my resume in front of the right people and I got an interview and actually at the time SAm Jacobs was the VP of sales and so I met with him for the first time and he ended up becoming a big influence and a mentor in my career. But I met with a few other folks who were there and they really explained to me like, hey we, we we think your background is interesting, it's not a perfect fit and eventually they said we'd like to give you a job but it can't be as an a you have to come in as an SDR. Um and at 27 turning 28, pretty big cut from where I was at salary wise and I still didn't really understand why I needed to go in as an SDR versus an A. I found out pretty quickly why later on, but I thought you know what, this is my chance to break in to a new field, a growing field. It seemed like an exciting company. The people seemed awesome. I was excited about the product and at the time I I think I was just living with my girlfriend and my my wife now uh you know, I wasn't engaged yet, wasn't married, didn't have kids. I'm like my risk tolerance is never going to be higher than it is right now. So I just sort of closed my eyes and, and made the move, That's great. And so is that where you, you worked with Charles there? Because I remember he said he worked for, for SAm Jacob as well and we were talking about that a little bit. Yeah, so, so day one, I, I sat down and they put me next to Charles, Charles was in a um, I was his SDR, so we had a great, a great dynamic. We, I learned so much from him and we were very real, very honest with each other, give each other feedback. He took my feedback as, and str who had much experience at all in, in tech. Um, I took his feedback pretty well and we really sort of grew together. That's great. That's a great podcast for anyone listening, that similar type of progression. He came from, you know, a...

...decade in the accounting world into sales. So it's funny that you guys came at the same spot and now work at the same different company over at CB insights. Um, so how, how long did it take for you to go through the SDR kind of like trials and tribulations before you got the uh, the role. Yeah, so the program itself was really just being spun up. They had three or four sdrs and uh, there wasn't a set trajectory, It was really, it was really wild west. I mean they did pair you with a ease, but um they sort of let you run wild in terms of just being able to book demos and um you know, really just whatever you kind of put in from an initiative standpoint, you were rewarded. And uh the, I think I was able to do it in like seven or eight months, which I think nowadays is probably an unheard of, it was really just because they didn't really have a set program and it was a new idea. And so uh I started in february and by I want to say september or so I was able to to become an a um you know, I wanted to become an aa sooner and I did everything I could to to get there sooner. It seemed like a long time, you know, the difference between five months and seven months, but really it wasn't and I'm glad I took the SDR route because I learned so much, but it was about seven months and then I was in in a a after that. So what I think is interesting is that your your first job that you got in finance, uh you know, you've stuck in that same world, obviously you've transitioned what you're doing and now you're a VP of sales and you kind of rose through the ranks there, but you see a lot of a s or a lot of sales people kind of jump from industry to industry, they might be at a company for a year or two or three and they're selling to HR then they're selling to a CFO and then to a VP of sales and kind of all over the place, you've really stuck in this one domain because you've been interested in in finance, you know, for such a long time, how has that helped you as a seller? Um Like is that something that you would recommend that other people maybe consider like really try to be a domain expert and find great companies within that same domain? Yeah. I think it's interesting you said that tom because that's actually something that I think i i it wasn't really as apparent to me as you just put it until I really thought about it more recently, cause somebody else also brought it up to me and I realized that, you know, even now at CB insights, we're really selling, you know research and information and data and it's actually not so different than where I started my career, totally different model, totally, totally different client type, but the underlying product is is largely similar for me, it's been helpful um because it's something I'm interested in is something I've always been interested in and I think if you're interested in the product and you know those buyer types and you just want to consume, you know the information in the same way your clients do. I think that that's really helpful. I I wouldn't say though that I would way that extremely heavily relative to just sales acumen and, and sales skills. I think that sometimes if someone spent their whole career in an industry it could be very attractive to a potential company from a hiring standpoint, but I think it's, you also need to make sure that person actually has the chops and from just a sales standpoint or a leadership standpoint or whatever the the role is and so I wouldn't over index for it, but I think that it is helpful. Um and I think kind of moving from actually the CB insights where I went next, it was really beneficial for me and it allowed me to hit the ground running when I joined. So coming from a different industry and then getting into sales, I feel like in the first year tour sales people really understand two things. One is, am I cut for this? Like can I make it as a salesperson then? Do I want to be a salesperson? Um and I don't really think you can answer those questions unless you really try it. Um and obviously you passed both of those tests and you've been doing it for for a long time and doing it well, why do...

...you think that you stuck with it? Like what what about sales has been so attractive to you and made it made you successful in it. So I think the number one thing is, is competition, right? Just, just being very competitive. That that's when I when I really think about it and maybe it's less so now being on the leadership side, or although maybe in a different way, but as an individual contributor, whether you're an SDR or an A. E or senior Ae or whoever, whoever ever roll you're on, like, I think that just waking up every day and having sort of this um this environment where everything's open, like the scoreboards there, everybody can see the scoreboard. Um it's empowering and uh I think that if you're the type of person who wants to win, wants to be number one uh and not just get you going, I think there's no better profession than sales to do that. I agree. Were you an athlete growing up? So not not on the college level, but I did play a lot of sports growing up in high school, I played baseball, that was my sort of main main varsity sport. Um But yeah, I mean, I think that uh you do sort of as an adult and especially now with end of quarter and end of year, just sort of that that team vibe whether you're in an office or doing it via zoom, I think like all rallying um around a number together, you know, individuals, you want to perform and of course be be the best, but to do it as a team and to uh to cheer each other on and to wake up to close deals and to strategize new deals and to, you know, bring someone into the team like you, although it feels like you're, you're a kid again in some ways, um, you know, stakes are much higher of course, but I don't know if other jobs or professions where you can, can feel that way and, and like you said before, it's the opposite of when you're at the, at the bank or um, you know, in the financial sector and you have a great year, but the company has a down year, right? And there goes your bonus, right? Um, it's it's the opposite of that. It's like, well, If the company is doing well or not well or okay, like you're, if you hit 200% to go, like you're getting paid on your plan, you get 50% of gold and the company is doing well, well, you might not be there for the rest of that, that journey. And so there's a lot of autonomy in it. Um, and I think a lot of, like, you know, pressure maybe, I don't know if that's the best way to put it. Um, I think a lot of great salespeople like the pressure or, or at least adapt to it. Um, but I think being able to handle that in a competitive atmosphere is super important. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that the other side of it, which is really important because we could talk all day about big wins and big quarters, but the best salespeople have bad quarters and have cold streaks and, you know, have a rough stretch in their career, whatever it might be. Um, but I think with early in the game a yes or sdrs, when you hit your first rough patch, I think that's so important to kind of get through that and have the right mindset there because I think we've all seen people who hit a rough patch and never recover right and then other people who use it as motivation and fuel and then kind of bounce back and it doesn't mean make the future rough patches much easier, but I think having some experience and having the faith in yourself to go through those, those tough times allows you to, to go through the next tough times in, in with just a clear head. Um, and so I think, I think mindset and uh, just kind of how you approach the downs is just as important, if not more than rallying for the highs. Do you remember any of those early rough stretches, whether it was a deal that you blew or blew up at the end or tough months, tough quarters, maybe tough years, um, that were, you know, relatively early in your career? Yeah, I think when I was an SDR at at Axial, I had gotten off to a pretty...

...pretty hot start, sort of thought, I knew what I was doing right. Um, said a lot of demos, a lot of those deals closed thought I figured it out and then a few months and I was just ice cold and we were doing some competition and you know, me in the group and then the team I was on lost and just straight up couldn't do it. And it happened to be the last month of the quarter and the company ended up actually having a good, a good quarter. So it's sort of the opposite of what we're talking about now. And initially it was hard for me to celebrate the company having a good quarter because I felt terrible that I didn't do well and my team didn't do well. Um, but I had a really good, a good boss and a good mentor then who kind of took me aside and was like kind of having the conversation we're having now just around like, yeah, everyone's gonna have a bad month or bad quarter. It's good that you feel this way now because it shows you care, shows you're engaged, but like there's a bigger picture out here and, and we have to celebrate the team and you know, we have to realize that if the company does well, even if you didn't do well right away, like it's gonna be beneficial for all of us and it's gonna create opportunity and it's gonna lift all of us up and I never forgot that. And I've tried to take that with me. Um, just in terms of thinking about what's good for the company and how that benefits everybody. Because I think with high growth companies with startups, it is, it is important to, um, not only to do well, but to, to celebrate company wins and to really just be at a winning company. Yeah, I, I feel like that's probably one of the tougher jobs of the, of the leader is trying to get, trying to take this individual game and try to create kind of like a team camaraderie and energy. I've been on teams where that is the case and people are truly rooting for everyone's success. Um, and I've been on teams where it's more than zero sum mentality and it's like, oh, if, if, if she closes the deal for some reason, that means I'm not going to close the deal or she's gonna look better than I am or whatever it might be. Um, how is a leader? Do you try to foster that type of team mentality? Um, where, where it's the tide is rising all boats, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I, I, uh, I read this once, I think it's, it was from principles by Ray Dalio, but he talks about how companies are the opposite of a house, right? A house, the foundations at the bottom and then you kind of build from there, but with companies, the foundations actually at the top. So founder Ceo, you know, VP level directory all the way down. I think you need to have the culture set from the top and then hire the right people. Then it sort of cascades down. But more specifically, one thing we've been doing for a while now at CB insights and I, and it happened very organically and it works is that we, um, we have our end of quarter war rooms the last two weeks of the quarter and we invite everybody to those. Right? So it's, it used to be just a small group of leaders. Then we started inviting A ES and S T R S. And for the past couple of years it's been everybody. So it's an open call and we'll go through every, every closed deal, every commit deal, best case pipeline. Uh, and really just, um, even have sdrs to share a bit about the sourcing of the deal and um, whatever it might be, people give quotes, you know, all these kind of things. Um, and really just kind of had this, this company group call every day where everyone celebrated and we strategized together and everyone's really recognized overall. Um, and I think that gives off the energy that we're celebrating each other and uh, we're rooting for each other and, you know, not every deal closes, but I think it's an opportunity for everybody to be together and to, to just build the momentum as a team. Mm hmm. You said that's the last two weeks of the year or every quarter. Every quarter. The last two weeks. I love it. We do, uh, a similar, we do the last week. Um, and, but not a full company. I love the idea of anyone can kind of drop in and, and uh, and here that I feel like in a remote environment that, to me, that...

...gives me energy right? Because I miss seeing the person to the left or the right of me closing a big deal or hunting something. And, and that motivates me, um, to, to want to close my own dealer or if I could be helpful obviously, you know, happily. Oh, I know, you know, Jason over there. I'll give, you know, I'll give him a shout. But um, you know, to me that's just like, that's, it's not as good as being all in the same room on the sales floor, but it's like the closest thing I've seen in the world of like covid and remote work totally. Yeah. And we've been sort of doing a bit of a hybrid approach where we do have some in office now and we'll just zoom in from the office to everybody else. Um, and still try to hit the gong when, when we're in person and, and that sort of thing. But yeah, it is, it is more challenging to, to create that now in a remote world. but of course you have to do all those things. And I think also with the individual team meetings celebrating each other and you know, sharing success. I think those sort of things are, are really important. You mentioned Ray Dalio principles, I saw him one of your blogs, you mentioned jocko willing who is a virtual role model of mine, a virtual mentor. I'm curious, you know, we're big learners on this podcast. I'm curious any other books that could be sales related, They could be business, they could be in a whole different type of genre, but any that have had a significant impact on you as throughout your career or throughout your life. Yeah, a ton. I think right now actually as a leadership team were reading the qualified sales leader by john McMahon and uh I read a bunch of sales books that that one is probably the best I would say that I've read. Um really just because it's, it's just laid out right there for you. It's almost like an open book, open book, you know, cheat sheet, if you will and I just love the frameworks he has and um, you know, the stories he shares, I think that that one is, is so important and I think through that you realize too, the actual job of, of a sales leader, I think like it's not always intuitive going from an individual contributor to uh a sales leader. I think a lot of times like, yeah, I'll hop on the phone helping close deals try to get him promoted, like, that's my job. It's great. And that could work maybe to some extent. But the framework he has, where it's just like, hey, your job is to recruit, develop and retain talent. It's like, how do you do it, you inspire, right, you coach and then you inspect and if that's all you think about as a sales leader every day, you're gonna be on the right track, right in terms of where you spend your time, how you prioritize what you focus on. So from a sales book standpoint, I think that's, that's great. And like I said, we're reviewing it now and, and um, discussing it as a team, which I think matters also because when you do a little book club, you, you pick up on things that you might not have because other people mention it and you write, you write things down and that's powerful. So trying to just squeeze that book for, for all it's worth, that's a great one. And for those that aren't familiar, uh, john, I think john McMahon, right, uh, the only person to ever be a cr oh, at five different public companies or at least that I know of, uh, which is pretty amazing. Um, and so yeah, he tells a lot of stories from this company that he consulted with and just kind of goes through this whole thing, but I think if you're a leader it's great, but I think as a rep it's great too because it shows this is he kind of shows what he's looking for as a great leader um and talks about a lot of the pitfalls of deals that fell through. He talks about He has this one piece towards the end about procurement, which I love because like, you know, it's just that's one of the hardest challenges. I feel like sometimes you you feel like you're at the end line with a deal and then they're like, Hey, meet Jim and procurement, he's gonna wring you out for another 20%. So um it's a great book. I highly recommend that one as well. Yeah, I love it. It's a great one. Um So let's talk a little bit about management. Um You talked about it can be a little bit awkward or a tough transition to go from reptile manager and then I'm sure there's also that...

...transition from manager to second line or third line manager, what are in each of those two scenarios? What are some pieces of advice you would give to someone that's, you know, trying to get to those those next levels. Yeah, I think in terms of of 82 manager as an e results are are super important, you know, I I agree with the fact that it's not always the top rep who makes the best manager, however, I have not seen any bottom performing reps become a manager, right? So I think you need to have some confidence in that role. Um But I think you also cannot be only about results. Like you have to actually sort of do things and and show yourself as a future leader and whether it's coaching others or you know, doing trainings or taking on projects and and just having the right attitude, the right mentality across the team. I think that's that's so important because then it becomes obvious that you're the one to be tapped. Um And so I think that's important, but I think from becoming when when you become a manager, one thing that I learned pretty quickly was that, you know, I thought I was just going to have this one approach and I was going to be really upfront and direct with everybody and set expectations and I think it's all good. But I do think that whoever you manage, you really have to get to know them as individuals because people take feedback differently and people have different goals for their career, their lives, they're different people outside of the office and you know, you can be very upfront and very direct with somebody and they'll process it and they like to get feedback that way. It's helpful, you give that same feedback to somebody else and they could be in tears. I mean that that that's happened to me. So you really have to get to know your team as individuals and and care more about them, not just as people who close deals, but who, who they are outside of the office and what they're trying to do with their lives and careers. Do you feel like that's tougher to do? I know you mentioned your hybrid, but do you feel like that's tougher to do in a remote world? Yeah, I think it's, it's much harder to do in a remote world. Um, and so I mean as I said, we've been, we've been doing some hybrid and trying to get people together when we can. Um, but I think that in a remote world you have to be really careful with how you phrase things and understand that hey, like, you know, actually hopping on a, a quick zoom and having an actual conversation as best as you can is a better form of communication than just firing off slacks or texts or emails, whatever it might be. Um, and you know, doing team building things virtually when you can, I think at this point, some, some folks are tired of it, but I do think there's still a place for the right ones when you can find some, some fun activities together. Um, but I think you have to be much more intentional than you might have been in person when you just pick up on more cues from a communication standpoint and then going from first to let's just say second line leader that feels to me like it's a completely different lens. You're thinking things about things much more strategically trying to solve problems in the business, trying to, you know, probably you look more into the future of what the team needs and how do we get to the next level because you're not as involved in day to day deals and you're not uh you know, having all the one on, ones with reps and things like that. Is that a fair assumption? I think that that's absolutely right. I think that one way to look at it is The job is to create the most favorable conditions for success across the team. Um and so I think I think of it as being sort of a conduit from the managers in the 80s to the executive team, but also cross functionally so to marketing and two customer success and and rev ops and I think you you do that though by really understanding what's still happening at the aa level, right? Like whether it's skip level one on ones still joining a lot of calls, still doing deal reviews and just asking for honest feedback. Um because I think that that's how you understand where the problems are and that's how...

...you can kind of bubble it up and and get the right resources. Um we had, you know, a challenge recently with just account routing as an example and and territories and and that sort of thing. And you know, really when you, when you dug into it, the eighties had a lot of, a lot of points there and, and I think that it was very easy then to show, you know, the executive team and and rev up like, hey, we need to prioritize this, this routing and this account scoring to get folks better accounts to sell into and it's going to benefit them, it's gonna benefit the company. And so um you know, I think being that bridges is really important and then kind of following up and seeing how it's going, what else can we work on and you know, just knowing that like nothing's ever always perfect. Right? There's always something to work on and I think that uh you know, you need to just kind of keep a close here and and get people to be honest with you. Mhm. You mentioned in some of the pre recording uh just some of the idea flow, like the topics of relationships and and fitness and uh family and things like that. I'm curious how do you integrate some of those other aspects while also being a top performing salesperson and sales leader? I think that's something that everyone probably struggles with to some degree um and has their own kind of formula. So curious how you arrange things. Yeah. So I actually think that the pandemic um changed things for the better there for me, uh, you know, not that, not that things were in disarray before that, but I think that um you know, the pandemic, I don't know, it having more time I think at home, you know, with family, but also being able to exercise a bit more and kind of cutting down on the commute and things like that. I think that that has allowed me to um just better understand like how to, how to order things in in life. And I think that you have more time than you think you did right? I think like thinking of, oh we'll have to do this after that, like work wise, like when you can prioritize other things like, like fitness and family, like you're, you're going to be better at your job, right? And so it's, it doesn't mean that that the job and, and the work is, you know, not going to get the attention it deserves. I think that you actually find you find more hours when you have a positive habit that you've developed. So, you know, I probably never would have thought that I would have like exercised at eight o'clock at night right? Or or woken up early to, to do something like that. Um but when it gives you fuel to do other things, you just literally create more hours by doing that. Um and I think, you know, also just being around your family more keeps you more balanced at work as well because you, something happens that you think is the biggest deal is such a catastrophe. You still might feel that for a second and then, you know, your your kid runs in and gives you a hug or something like that. Like, okay, well, you know, let's, let's, let's think about what matters and and this thing isn't really a big deal because I got an opportunity to to be a dad to somebody, right? So, I think that in some ways the pandemic has been really helpful for those things. Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely agree with you on on time as well. It's kind of like Parkinson's law, right? If you feel like, you know, you're gonna get all this done in 10 hours, right, then you can get it all done in 10 hours if you feel like, hey, maybe uh you know, I'm gonna stretch this and like, you know, I'm gonna try to squeeze in a workout or I'm gonna do a quick, you know, like family session or whatever it might be. I I feel like it's weird, but sometimes the more that you try to do, the more like you can actually do and when you're doing less, it's like everything's taking longer because that's how much time you've given it. Um So I don't really know how to describe that better if you want something done, give it to a busy person. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I I completely agree. Um All right. I want to hit Jason with a couple of rapid fire questions before we let you get on with your evening. Um Okay, first, what's bumping in the Jason? Selene Spotify, Apple music, wherever you...

...listen at, wherever you listen to music, what's, what's going on there? So uh my kids are really into dual IPA so uh and then bumping her stuff, but for me personally, I find myself going back to either like old school hip hop stuff like biggie ready to die has been been a big one for me recently. Um But then also get into sort of the The 80s mood every now and then with billy Joel, you know, journey people like that. It doesn't get more new york than biggie smalls and billy Joel. Come on, that's a hell of a combo. Um Okay, uh favorite podcast to check out, doesn't have to be sales related, but yeah, yeah. So um I like a lot of different podcasts, but I've been listening to um josh Brown recently. Uh he has a podcast, I think it's called the compound and friends called himself the reformed broker, but he's uh he's awesome and there's a lot of good stuff, you know, just investing, personal finance, that sort of thing. He's hilarious. He's on CNBC a lot. He has good guests, but he's uh he's always a great listen downtown josh brown if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, he's a good, he's a funny, I follow him on instagram to. Uh So he's pretty good there too. Um Okay, anyone that you would recommend folks, I don't know if you're, you're into like the linkedin. If you, if you follow anyone on linkedin that is in the sales world or um any other type of content blogs, youtube, anything else that is sales related that you check out to kind of stay on your game. Yeah. So we're big fans of josh braun. I think everything, everything he posts is amazing. We we review a lot of that and sort of coach around that. I think it's always it's always spot on. Um You know, I think john barrow is also, he's sort of the the O. G. Sales sales leader. He actually did training at axel I think like right before I got there. So I just, I just missed out on his training. But he's he's awesome. He's been doing it for so long and he keeps evolving his game and uh it's just awesome to see how he's developed over the years. He's he's the goat of sales trainers in my opinion. I do like josh bronze content as well. Those are two very solid picks. Um All right. You mentioned personal finance before, this is not a usual rapid fire questions, we're gonna throw it your way because you've got a lot of experience here get we're hungry. Millennials were trying to get to the next level Jason. What's what's a stock pick, what's what's like a hot tip on Wall Street that you can give to the millennial sales audience if that's a good question. Yeah it's going to be super super boring. I'll pair this with a book called The Psychology of Money by morning. How cell which really is just like your behavior matters way more than any returns or stock picks you have meaning that if you could just consistently save, put away 10 2030% of your earnings every year and don't touch it for 30 40 50 years, you're gonna have seven figures, maybe eight figures time you're 60 or 70. So really like low cost index funds super boring. Like not not sexy, not exciting but most of those actually beat the market like just the S. P. Y. Index. Um It's done really well over the years and so uh just do that and you know you can set aside a little fun money for for crypto or or you know meme stocks whatever just to scratch that itch. But majority should just be low cost index funds, don't touch it. Just do an automatic invest out of your paycheck, four oh one K. Or you know Wealthfront whatever it might be. And just don't touch it and you wake up one day 60 65 70 and you'll be okay. I love I love that. We talked about this that book on this podcast before and I'll tell you a quick story that my dad is in uh the...

...finance world. Uh he's a CFO we have like a family business. And so he taught me about stock stuff and mutual funds and stuff, you know, relatively early. Um And I gave that book, I read The Psychology of money, it's probably my favorite finance book and I gave it to my fiance um who is interested, but but is maybe just starting to kind of get into that world. And there's one day that she read the compound interest chapter and almost lost her mind like you, she she would talk about it for like two weeks, like every time I would say, hey, what do you want to go to inspect? Did you know that if you invest this much now in 30 years? And so it's uh it's it's crazy. I love that book. Um I would that would be the number one finance book I'd recommend to a young person maybe. Anyway. It's it's really crazy how we learn trigonometry and and physics and all these things, but we don't learn about compound interest in in high school. I mean maybe some people do now, but it's actually something that we can't wrap our heads around just as humans unless you actually study it and see and understand it? Uh you know Warren Buffett talks about compound interest and stuff a lot too. But uh yeah, it's uh it's not something that's super intuitive until you start learning about it and you just have to have patience and that's where the behavior comes into play. Absolutely. My last question for you here, Jason before we let you get off to whatever else you're doing tonight. Um who would you like to see on the millennial sales podcast that you know, Oof, so many people. Um so there's someone who have worked closely with, her name is Lydia Ryall. Um she's been the top performing a at CB insights for three or four or five years now. She was an SDR when I started. Um and she's been been jumping on the podcast circuit as of late, she's she's been on a couple, she was on on Jeremy Donovan's pod and uh another one earlier and she's just an incredible talent and she's actually gonna be moving over to, to leadership, she's gonna be managing a team um starting february. So I think she'd be a great pick that sounds like the type of person I'd like to talk to. All right, Lydia, you're on the hot seat. Um, Jason, anything that we didn't get to before we head off. Um No, I mean, I would just say one thing we didn't really kind of touch upon, but I think about more, especially as we were kind of talking about this time, I think just the importance and the value of great bosses and mentors, I think that uh you know, as I look back on my career, I think the common thread is that I've just been so fortunate to have amazing bosses and mentors um yeah, I mentioned Sam Jacobs and I also worked under marc Jacobs at, at CB insights for a while um my boss now Derek Reid is incredible, so uh yeah, I think that there's something in the James claire newsletter recently which is like the biggest shortcut ever, is to find an expert in the field and like apprentice under them. Um and I think that that's that's such great advice and so I would encourage everybody to not only look at a company, but look at who your boss is gonna be and try to learn as much as you can about them because that you know, that definitely could be your ticket, that's outstanding advice in a great way to, to close this off. Um Jason real quick, what's the, what's the best place if folks want to connect with you to learn more chat with you there, maybe they're interested in CB insights um what would be the best place linkedin linkedin for sure and we are hiring in a big way for pretty much every role, so yeah, you can talk on linkedin, hit him up people, Jason, I appreciate you coming on man, this is great, cool, thanks so much tom Alright, thanks for checking out that podcast again, you can find me on linkedin, my name is Tom Alamo or head to my sales podcast called millennials sales. Um this podcast of the Pavilion...

Show is sponsored by Chopin for opportunity preparation or opportunity execution. Show pad has everything your team needs to add value to provide insights and engage with your customers. Want to learn more about show pad, head to www dot show pad dot com for a personal assessment of your enablement journey until next time, keep getting after it. I'll see you next monday piece. Mhm.

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