The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

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Ep 27: The Art of Creating an Inclusive Remote Work Environment feat Denise Lubaway

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Ep 27: The Art of Creating an Inclusive Remote Work Environment feat Denise Lubaway

Hello and welcome to the revenuecollective podcast. My name is Casey. Let Gordon and I'm your host. Today Ihave the opportunity to sit down with Denise Love Away, the VP of growth andpartnerships at ultra knots in early stage, mission driven firm focused onsoftware and data quality engineering solutions. The firm is unique is thatin that it is an impact company focused on bringing neuro diversity to theworkplace. With 75% of the team being on the autism spectrum, Denise and Iwill talk about this as well as how from the foundation they have built aremote, inclusive and diverse workforce that has become a shining example herein covert times. This'll catalyst for this conversation was actually thatultra Knots was written up in The New York Times as an example of how acompany has been doing this for the past seven years. And what companiestoday facing co vid and really seeking to build remote, remote, diverse,inclusive and equitable workforces can learn from to give some context intoDenise our guests. She's a sales leader in a mentor with more than 20 years ofwisdom and experience in creating scalable and effective salesorganizations. Passion for integrating talent, data and technology to driverevenue has helped companies achieve rapid, sustainable growth. Herexpertise is in B two B, with an emphasis on professional services andtechnology. Prior to ultra noughts, Denise worked with a number of startups and large corporate on main management as an individual contributorand in consulting capacities to advise on sales, strategy, execution andenablement. Denise has been with the company about a year and shares herexperience in coming in to a new work environment and also how they've becomeexemplary. Today's episode is brought to you by Quota Path Commissiontracking software built by sales people for sales people. If you ever wake upin a cold sweat, dreading the commission's process quota path ISS foryou, quote a path provides commission transparency for everyone involvedwhile motivating reps to sell more. Plus, it's so easy to on board it'll berunning before your next commission cycle. Ditch spreadsheets and formulassimplify commission calculation at quota path dot com. With that, let'sjump in Hello and welcome to the revenue collective podcast. My name isCasey. Let Gordon and I'm your host. I'm so excited to be able to sit downwith my guest today. Denise Love away. She's the VP of growth and partnershipsthat ultra knots and early stage. Siri's a mission driven firm. Denise alot. Now I will dig in a bit thio What is ultra nuts and what is her rolespecifically around growth and partnerships. But what I'm most excitedabout is that earlier this year in our revenue collective slack channel. Forthose of you that that are in the community or those of you who aren't,we have an ongoing community there. And Denise had shared that her organization,Ultra Noughts, was actually recognized by The New York Times for having aremote but inclusive work environment...

...way before covert ever started and thatnow, given that we're all in this moment in time, that their organizationhas actually been able Thio be a model for how other companies adapt. And soas soon as I saw that pop up on the slack channels, I reached out to Deniseand said, Please, please join us for a show on our podcast. Ultra Knots willalso be doing a webinar for our revenue collective community to really talkabout this topic because I am hearing from so many sales and marketingleaders revenue leaders that one of the biggest challenges they're still having,you know, some eight months later is how do you build a inclusive and remoteculture, especially in an environment you know, sales specifically where weare road warriors, where we're used to being in front of people and gettingthat energy and invents. So how are we doing that? And I think, Thea otherpieces, many people are going into hiring here at the back half of theyear, going in 2021. And they're wondering, How do I bring in teammembers? How do I on board and how Doe I establish this culture that stillthrives in the face of a remote workforce. So with that, I welcomeUdinese. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you. That was a greatintroduction. Yeah, Ultra Knots is pretty amazing company. I'm veryexcited to be a part of it for a little over a year now. The company wasstarted seven years ago by to M I T. Graduates who basically came up withthe idea that neuro diversity could be a competitive advantage in business. Sothey essentially set out to build. Or, I should say, reimagine the way that awork environment could be set up to accommodate people that had manydifferent thinking, styles, ways of processing information, communicationpreferences and and so on and so fast forward to today they've built a greatorganization that provides services around data quality, engineering andsoftware. Q A And so you know, I was brought into the organization to buildthe sales and marketing function on, but it's been amazing journey. I amstill a team of one, as we have really kind of retrenched and try to thinkabout market share in the best way Thio message to our clients. And so, aswe've been on that journey, it's also been, you know, Cove it has has come.We've been living in this pandemic times. We've been working with a lot oforganizations that are curious to understand. You know how we've built ah,workplace that empowers people, brings out the best of their talents and isinclusive so that there is that sense of community and belonging, even thougheveryone is, you know, miles apart from one another. I I think it's fascinatingthat the concept behind the organization and so talk to me a bitabout you know, you're a team of one and God love you because that's that'sa lot within itself. It sounds like,...

...you know, this is a fascinating company,but a big mandate. And so what is your company comprised of at Ultra Noughts?Um, and you know how larger you all if you could mention revenue. I'm justtrying to help our audience really situate themselves in. What is thecompany makeup? Yep. Absolutely. And you know, as we are, services firm,like our products is our people. So right now, we've got just about 100employees in 25 states throughout the U. S. So you know very much a just despairit group if you will, um, people everywhere and we put ah, lot of, Iguess, tools and processes in place. Anything from we have ah, baht eso. Oneof the main tools that we use in our company is slack. So I know manycompanies use slack these Microsoft teams, which operate very similarly umand you know, we like other companies have all sorts of channels set up there,everything from, you know, business function. But other things such as, youknow, the random channel or we've got a cafeteria are, you know, coffee or pets,right? So all the various channels that people can share, But we've also builta bott that actually checks in with our team each day in the morning, and we'llask employees to questions. What is their energy level that day? On a scaleof 1 to 10? And what is their desire for being interactive on that day? Andso that is tied into each person within slap? You can if you're going to reachout to that person in a given moment time. You can see what they're feelinglike today. Are they high energy? Are they feeling very, uh, interactive? Youknow, if you're gonna try toe work on a big project with, um, maybe it's let'stalk about the project. But since you're feeling low energy today, youknow you could have that ability to navigate with them on when a timeframemight be best to complete That project, you know, might not be in an hour. Itmight be tomorrow morning. So we've got bots like that in place toe help withcertain types of communication because working remote, you lose a lot of theverbal cues. And with all the zoom fatigues that's going on, you know,more and more people either are not turning their videos on. Or maybethey're opting for a phone call. So a lot of the visual verbal cues that youwould get from interacting with someone in person you miss out on. So thepurpose of the boat that I just explained is to help, you know, gaugegauge, maybe how a person is feeling on a particular day. Yes, that'sfascinating. And so I'm curious. You said you joined a little over a yearago. Was this something new to you? I mean, this This feels new to me, so,but maybe it's something that that, you know, is is more common. I'm justcurious. So I've definitely worked in remote situations. Previously, I'vebuilt sales teams that were 100% remote. Yeah, and that said many of the toolsthat we have in place it alternates...

I've not seen before, either. It'sreally quite interesting to me. Another example is we had an employee a fewyears back, basically because we do project work. And oftentimes ouremployees are on, you know, one team for a particular project in the nextproject. They might be working with others. Basically, they said to our CEO,I wish that each person came with an instruction manual, whereas, you know,for each person like, how do they operate? You know what is the best wayto reach out out to them? Do they like email? Did they prefer slack? Wouldthey like me to call them on their phone if I don't get a response fromsomeone? What is an acceptable response time? Typically, are you someone thatresponds an hour? Should I wait until the afternoon? You know, if I don'thear from you and I'm going to nudge you, how do I do that? You know, if Isent you an email first, maybe you want a phone call now. So things things ofthat nature, there's about 20 questions that each employee it alternates. Wecall this tool. It's called a bio decks, and each person fills out their ownbiotechs profile where, you know, again you can when you go into slack on theirthat person's name, you could, you know, kind of hover over, and you can get allthe biotechs information. You know, things like, What time zone are they inor you know what hours do they work, right? Sometimes you have people thathave flex hours or, you know, maybe they Onley working Tuesday, Thursday,Friday. So these are all things that you can quickly see you know, throughthe biotechs. That's for anybody listening. I think that's such an easything to implement in your company or your team to say, you know, are there ahandful of things that every employee is going toe have and almost sets theperson that's seeking to communicate with them up for success? You know,we're in this community specifically where all sales and marketers you know,it's so much more successful when you know that much more about your customeror your target audience. And so thinking about, you know, just takingthat moment that paused to say, How do you wanna be communicated with beyondjust in Time Zone and those kind of things? But that more nuanced piecethat lets people really feel seen, I think is, is pretty neat. And it speaksto how you all are maintaining being a human organization despite maybe notbeing in person. So I think that's pretty fascinating question for you.Prior to Cove, it was this a a value prop or a product or service that youwere bringing out into the market of Hey, we can help you. We candemonstrate different ways of working or since Cove it has started, has thisnow pivoted as an area of opportunity. So our core services do remain. Youknow, the data quality engineering in the Software Q Way. But, you know,since since co vid it's a combination of since Cove it and the drive towardsdiversity and inclusion within organizations, given that our team isnor diverse, 75% of our team members are on the autism spectrum. So thecombination of from Day one having been...

...a completely remote workforce and thenalso that we, you know, really focus on diversity and inclusion from thestandpoint of the university and the way that we go about with some of oursourcing and hiring techniques, right again, we have re imagined ourworkplace everything from you know, how we go about recruiting for candidatesthrough You know what it feels like day to day to work in our company and thenthat ongoing career path in and up Skilling Thio allow our employees Thiocontinue to grow with us rather than having to grow out of us. Eso you know,with respect to through through, you know, hiring. Ah, lot of what we'vedone is we've tried to make the whole process more objective so that when youyou know, have candidates that we want to screen, it's not only just a matterof looking at their resume as a predictor for success, because that'son Lee, you know, part of the picture. But a lot of it even has to do with,you know, we do things like tests, if you will for our candidates to reallytest for the skills that they'll be involved with our for that job, theskills that they would be required now. When I hired into the company, I had todo a test as ahead of, you know, growth. I had ah whole exercise I had to gothrough to demonstrate that I indeed had the ability Thio to prospect. Thio,you know, put together a proposal to do a presentation. Thio really demonstratethat I was a the sales leader they were looking for, and in my experience, Iwas up against, you know, one other candidate that was put in the same sametest. So you know, not only does our company used the same set of interviewquestions from one candidate to the to the next right, so that it's not thatkind of subjective interviewing, but you're doing more of an objectiveapproach of each candidate is being asked the same set of questions. Youknow, there's a rubric in place Thio measure against. You know the answersto those questions so that there's a more fair scoring process to try totake. You know, some of that bias out. You know, if you're going into aninterview with savings, that's a question for every candidate. And, youknow, looking at it from that perspective, them before you even getto know that candidate and build rapport and really either fall in lovewith them or don't you've got this foundation of you know how how to keepeverything on a a level playing field, if you will. I think that's such aanother key. Take away of what you just said is in, you know, thinking about myown hiring experiences were all subjected, um, subject Thio our ownbiases. And so being able tohave almost that biotechs, like you said of of yourinterview questions, what is the place that we're going to start for everycandidate and then be able to develop a unique, you know, interview or processor or testing? But to be able to have a...

...starting place I think is reallyimportant. I want to talk about being recognized by The New York Times.There's no small feat like that is that is amazing that you all are doing workso great that that, you know, a publication like that is is calling youout for how you're working. I'm curious. You know, what was the narrative there,and how did you originally either get approached or surface this to the timesand get that coverage? You know, we've been very fortunate because of ourmission and a lot of the great work that we're doing within organizations,you know, it's it's helped us to get some recognition and awareness. Forexample, we've been doing work with Bank of New York Mellon and the CEOrecently, a couple months back on her, linked in feed, she actually postedabout the partnership that bien y and alternates have and that the work thatwe are doing for them, not only from the standpoint of the great work thatwe're doing, but that it was powered by a neuro diverse team. And you know howexcited she waas in that partnership, you know? So it's it's been just acombination off referrals and people in our network that are just really amazedat the, you know, high caliber of work that we provide and that we havefigured out a way to tap into an extraordinarily talented pool of peopleand build an environment that empowers each and every one of us, you know, atthe company to really excel and work on our best level. The other thing that'sreally interesting about our organization and something that I wouldhope to use as I build out teams of salespeople is a nice idea of ajudgment free zone, and what I mean by that is because alternates has anappreciation that people digest information differently. No one takesfor granted that if I make a statement about something, if there's a questionto what I said and somebody asked the question to clarify, there's absolutelyno judgment of like we should have known that or, um, you know, that thatwas just not That was a dumb question. There's never anything to that degreethat happens within our organization and for me, working in a situationwhere most of my teammates are neurodevelopmental and I'm no typicalmeaning they all think a lot differently than I dio. At first it wasintimidating, you know, to walk into the organization. And there are all ofthese just incredibly, you know, complex conversations about topics thatI have barely, you know, any idea And, you know, we talk about the depths ofdata and you know how you're going toe. Look at data. You know, I would be inconversations that would be intimidated to ask a question which a za reflectback over my corporate career. There's...

...been lots of other situations, you know,companies that I've been at where I have been, you know, nervous to speakup either share a thought that might have been different than the rest ofthe group. Or to ask a question that, you know, maybe I was feelinguncomfortable asking because it seemed like I didn't want to ask a dumbquestion, and that's that's not present in what alternates has built. It goesback to what I was saying of a judgment free zone of, you know, speak your mind.Um, you know, as long as it's in the spirit of collaboration or trying to bepositive, you know, like speak your mind, asked the question. Come up withthose ideas and it's its's. It's refreshing to be part of that type ofmentality. I think there's something there thatthat any of our listeners can take away in the sense that, especially in aremote workforce, in your case, you know, a a neuro diverse workforce whichhopefully we'll see more of. I think that's you know that you guys air, alsoleading by example in showing the quality of work that comes in buildingdiverse teams, and so I think that in a remote world, communication has to beover because we don't have the nuance of being in person, seeing bodylanguage, reading the room and by giving permission or setting groundrules as an organization and as a team that we're gonna as long as intentionsare there. Positive intentions were good intentions that were open toe askchallenge and collaborate openly. I think is is really powerful. And Ithink that one of the things that I've observed, you know, in building remoteteams is you have to as a leader, lead by example. You can't wait for, youknow, the employees. To do that, you need Thio demonstrate that yourself toshow that it's not only okay, but that it's actually welcome that it can beapplauded and appreciated. And so I think that any of our leaders listeningor even employees, you know, if this is something that you're looking to bringinto your organization, it's figure out. How do we not just set that as a groundrule and talk about it? But how do we demonstrated actively so that othersknow how Thio imitate or follow it? That behavior, Yeah, and you know, Ihave to say I think that part of that comes a T least in my organization from,ah, high level of transparency that we have, starting with the executivemanagement team, you know, all the way on down the line in that, like a Zenexecutive management team. We meet once a week and discuss, you know, criticalaspects of you know how we're going to be running the company. We share thatwith our team, you know, in our kind of general slack channel each week, a zoo,you know, recap, I guess, of our executive management meetings. Weprovide information on what was discussed in that meeting, that thewhole company, no matter what your job title is, can can see. And it's it'snot some exhaustive, you know, right up. I mean, it's it's summarized. It's, um,you know, people can feel free to...

...comment on it again in the spirit ofcollaboration and positive positive. You know, it's criticism or are butpositive. Another thing that we do is our dashboard, if you will. That we runthe company by is 100% public to everyone, um, in the organization. Soyou know, no matter again, what your title is, you can see our revenue. Youcould see you know maybe what our const receivable are. You know, all thedifferent metrics that we have there, they're fully transparent and out there.And so that also provides a degree of, you know, going back to that concept ofjust having a very open environment where there's, you know, not thingshiding in the corners or in the closet where just everything is out in theopen. It makes it a whole lot easier toe have just very open, nonjudgmentalconversations. Has there been any instances of backfiring with that? Imean, I I think that from an employee perspective, it's refreshing to hearthat. But I'm sure there's also times that that could be challenging to leadwith so much transparency. And I'm just curious if there's any any negativeaspects that you've you know, witnessed or had to bear through. Well,interestingly, um, this whole concept that I talked about of us kind ofsharing this information is fairly new to our organization, I would say in thelast maybe six months, one of the other things that we do. I talked earlierabout the the box that we have each morning that asked people how energeticthey're feeling or their level of interaction. We also have a survey thatwe do with our employees. There's two surveys, but one is again. It's a daily,but that comes out at the end of the day, and it's ah, revolving list ofabout 10 questions. And one of the questions has to do with I feel that Iunderstand what the company's management is doing in the directionthat we're headed, you know, as an organization. That's one of thequestions, and it's a simple yes or no. What we saw was a trend, and this thisactually was before coded. So as I think back on it, maybe this is morelike around nine months ago. We saw a trend in the preceding few months thatpeople were answering that question more so to the negative that they werefeeling less aware and more isolated. Another thing that we measure is ouremployees loneliness. It's a loneliness score, if you will and how, how lonelythat that they're feeling. And we saw a direct correlation between ouremployees feeling more lonely at work and less lesser feeling of belonging orcommunity. We saw that those correlated together and So as a management team,one of the remedies to fix that was, you know, being more transparent withthe things that I just mentioned on earlier. That's fascinating. I I'm curious ifyou this is your observation, Justin,...

...what you've shared, it feels like ultranoughts is so attuned to some of the soft metrics that that organization,sometimes, you know, it becomes only an afterthought after it. Maybe talentretention is a challenge, or you bring in a consultant or, you know, bigenough to have an HR function. But it feels like this is this is ingrained asyour your hard metrics are most people soft metrics. And I'm curious from abusiness perspective. You know, I for any of the skeptics listening, What isthe business value that you all are seeing come out of this? Well, ourretention rate for one. I mean, we've got a 94% retention rate, and I don'tjust mean this year I mean, in the history of company of the company, theseven years that we've been around as we've brought people on, we see veryfew of them leave. So you know, in and of itself that is a great track recordfor that. We're doing something right. I think in addition to that, you know,we're very cognizant of talking with our employees and understanding wherethey want to go with their career. When we hire, we hire, you know, as Imentioned before, a combination between someone's resume or work experience,but also just their raw aptitude and skill set. So, you know, we may behiring people that have college degrees that don't have college degrees, somethat have extensive experience in the workplace and others that may not have.You know, a lot of experience in the workplace and and we bring them intothe organization and we invest up front a lot of time in up skilling them tothe role that they were hired for. So whatever those gaps are, you know, ifthey demonstrate that they've got the raw talent, you know, we fill in thosegaps and get them to that, I guess state where we know that they're goingto be high performers. And so we're setting them up just for success beforethey even start their role, if you will, they're they're not necessarily comingin and It's like, okay, Day three, get at it. You know, to start the job thatyou were hired for. So we're doing a little bit of assessing up front of aperson to make sure that they're armed with all the tools they need beforethey actually even start doing the work. And as I said, we see that as anabsolute investment on our part to, you know, having quality employees that aregonna have a great experience, whether with us and, you know, getting thatlevel of high retention. So they stay for the long haul, and then we continuethio work with them to up skill. And even in the time that I've been withthe company, we have, I guess, pivoted our services or expanded our services.And with that for those employees that wanted Thio, you know, go on thatjourney, you know, we've invested in them again as far as getting them at apoint where they can, um, pivot with us. That's fascinating. Um, I'm curious ifif anybody is listening and saying, um, like I shared one of the biggest topicsof conversation is how do I build a sustained culture remote culture thatstill feels connected, it feels, feels...

...human, feels authentic to ourorganization. Are there any tips, tricks, maybe tangible pieces that youcan share with organizations who aren't traditionally remote? That that haven'tbeen doing this for seven years? And, you know, especially as those that areopening up hiring here in the back half of the year. And maybe they haven'tbeen able to do that through covitz. So this is, you know, this is not only didthey just get their their existing culture in place or a team, but nowthey're potentially bringing in new members. So I'm curious. Are there anytangible pieces we can offer our listeners? Yeah. I mean, if I put mymanager hat on right and I think about having Thio get a remote teamproductive and and how doe I do that, you know, one of my my biggest. I thinktakeaways, in my experience with alternates, is really taking thatconcept. You know, for the longest time being in sales and you're alwayssurrounded by people and it's, you know, different personalities are, you know,there are all these ways of grading a person and what type they are theremore touchy feely? Are they more analytical and looking at what a personis and how you might approach them to close the deal? Managing employees It'sIt's almost taking that concept like to a much deeper level, right? And it'sappreciating that I, as a manager, you know, have a team of people that areall very talented, right? They were, they were hired. And it's how doe I tapinto the potential of each person. And I think oftentimes companies use thes,you know, broad brush approach is to managing teams and oftentimes don'ttake the time to understand the nuances of each of the people on their team.And what is going to resonate with that particular employee to make them themost effective? And that's not necessarily that you're trying toreinvent the wheel for each employee. I think it's a Z a manager. Whetheryou're managing up or managing down, being being cognizant of how thatparticular person is is communicating, processing information, you know whenthey ask questions. There's a lot of insight into those types of things. Ifthey're asking questions that are, you know, like very analytical, then youunderstand that they're going to need a whole lot more detail if they'reconstantly asking for clarification. Maybe they're not connecting with theway that you communicate right the way that you're providing information.Maybe they're more of someone that would do better reading information,being able to digest it and then come back to you with questions versushaving, you know, face to face conversation where you're just doing abrain dump on them. So there's a lot of, you know, aspect of just understandingthe unique makeup of each person, and that's part of what makes them great.But if that isn't recognized and cultivated, then those same aspects, ifthey don't fit exactly with your...

...management style, would be the thingsthat maybe turn that employees who has a potential for greatness be someonethat's kind of a B player, and it could be just something as simple as you know,their specific we need. I think that one of the things that I've observedboth in being a manager and then just speaking with several of them here onthis podcast is the job is always complex because you're dealing withpeople, people are complex and there's ah, transition of being an individualcontributor to then being a manager of people, and you need to know thesubject matter. But at the end of the day, you're responsible for the teamand how they're collectively performing. And I have found that in the face of aremote work environment, co vid layers another piece on it. I've, you know,just in the fact that we all have a lot of pressures on us. But in a remoteenvironment, there is a intentionality and a speed factor. It feels like youhave to slow down a bit. You have to really spend the time almost buildingout this persona of who your team is and what are. You know, the ways thatthey want to communicate, what makes them feel connected. You know, you maybe doing a happy hour, but that may not be the thing that makes people feelconnected. It maybe instead celebrating winds or updates or client calls, Whoknows? And so the thing I have found is that as a manager, it's not just up toyou to define what creates a connected and inclusive culture. Instead, it'sfacilitating the conversation with the team members, both individually andtogether, to say, How do you all want Thio almost self govern or self manage?And I'll hold us accountable to that. I'll facilitate that. And I think thatsometimes as managers, we unnecessarily take the burden that we have to haveall the answers. And that leads to a lot of assumptions and, you know, andthen probably some some flaws along the way. Whereas what I'm hearing you sayis really it's about what you all have recognized in a remote workforce is byjust asking those questions, explicitly getting the answers and then buildingbuilding teams off of that. Yes, it's like a like reverse engineering. I likewhat you said about just making assumptions, and I think that there isa general mindset of, you know, Okay, I've I'm gonna go back to sales becausethat's what I know best. But I've got a bunch of sales people that I'm managing,and, you know, this is what they're supposed to do in their job on dsoagain. You just sometimes might make broad brush assumptions and they don'twork, you know, you get and I also think the nature in general with salesis that they're there. If you have a team, they're competitive againstthemselves against each other. And you know you have to be able Thio, take thehealthy aspects of that competition and realize how to harness Harness that,but also realize that people are...

...competitive in their own way, right? Sowhere someone might be all into leaderboards and, you know, they reallyget a charge out of that? Another person may have their own personalmarathon that they're running in their own head of, you know, when they hitthese milestones, that's what they consider success. So again, it's it'snot making those assumptions that were all built the same. Just because we'reall doing the same job is, for example, a sales person doesn't mean that themotivation is the same for each the motivation. Or, you know, there, there,the processor, if you will their internal processor for for gettingthere. I think that is such a key piece for us. Thio end on Today as we'retalking about you know, your experiences that ultra noughts and forthose of you that haven't Google Ultra Knots, New York Times, there's a greatpiece there and Denise, you're on the revenue collective slack channel. Soanybody that's that's wanting to learn more. I think that's also a great placeto start. Denise, thank you for being on the show today. Thank you forsharing your experience of what it is to have a remote workforce, euro,diverse workforce. And how do we How do we actually create the systems andprocesses so that this is a moment in time in which we all learn how to adaptrather than suffer through and then just go back to the way things havealways been? Yes, this has been great. And I guess I'll leave with one last, Iguess, mantra that we have within our organization, which is embrace thedifferences on that SSM thing that we really aspire to is appreciateeverybody for who they are completely. And for those of you that are listeningcoming up in one of our episodes, I believe it's the episode after Denise.We actually talk about creating healthy friction based on those differences,and I I think that's such an awesome way toe sign out of today is that youtune in next week and you'll hear more about that. All right, Denise. Loveaway. Casey. Let Gordon thistles the revenue collective podcast and we'llsee you next time. Thank you, Denise. And thank you to our listeners. Today'sepisode was brought to you by quota path. Quota path is the first radicallytransparent and to end compensation solution from sales reps to finance.Get started for free at quote a path dot com. And your next commission cyclecould be totally automated. This is Casey. Let Gordon your host, and I'llsee you next time on the revenue collective podcast.

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