The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

Ep 234: Changing The World Of Email w/ Andy Mowat, CEO at Gated


Ep 234: Changing The World Of Email w/ Andy Mowat, CEO at Gated

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

All right, this episode is brought to you by contract book. Raise your hand if you love managing contracts. We didn't think so. Contract book created an all in one contract automation platform with data at the heart of everything. To help organizations automate mundane tasks that waste your valuable time, energy and resources. Visit Contract Bookcom to excess contract books complete set of automation tools for free. Now let's get into the show. All Right, folks, welcome back to the pavilion podcast, where revenue leaders come to learn the tips, tricks and tactics they need to be successful in their roles. I've got the CEO of gated, Andy Mowitt, coming in from the bay area. Andy, how you doing? Hey, Dom Gore, to see you. Yeah, you too, you too. Are you? Are you in San Francisco or South Bay or where are you? A lot of years there. I grew up in the Barre, but I'm living down in the South Bay and Birmingham Hills Program. Okay, got you and see your native so I have to imagine warriors fan. Yep, tonight's a big night. Big Night. I'm a I'm a Bostonian. I live in Chicago now, but I didn't think about that till I started asking the question. So we've got some tension that I'm going to try to push off to the side until after after this recording, we a big one la basketball analogies and by the time this is published, I don't know long it'll take, they may be stale because the warriors would be celebrating. So yeah, yeah, I mean by the time we put this out the the series will likely be over. But it's it's game three tonight, so I'm on I'm on high alert, but it's great to have you on. I've actually seen, inadvertently, seen gated kind of all over the place in my own emailing efforts. So I'm glad that we got we got introduced. I'd love to hear you know, before we get to like the actual product and what you all are doing. Love to hear the Genesis Story. I obviously you had a lot of success both, I think, as a founder earlier on your career and then, you know, in the operation space at a bunch of different SASS companies. So would love to see her a little bit of the background story there. Yeah, absolutely, and I've got like the crazy before I got into tech. If we ever want to go there too, but in a fundamental what do you know? What do you got? Would it? What's The crazyness? Will let's see, investment banking New York, private equily, London rend a grocery store chain Eastern Europe. They'll tie in gym's all over the US. So and then I realized the tech is where you wanted to be. So I spent the last twenty years of my career scaling tech companies. I think I found my sweet spots China, like five million to a hundred million, and then they get too big. So I've done had the privilege to kind of do it with three. I'll work box, where I actually joined later, closer to Ipoh, but got to learn a lot around great people at scale, and then culture amp, where we took it from like five million to eighty million and four years. So I've generally run unlike all the revops functions. And...

...then at culture amp I also random manchin too. So I love to scale companies. I love to figure out like what works in marketing, how do you attack it and how do you like use data and systems and and then the team's to drive through on that. So that's what I've done. At culture amp I was getting pummeled by email. Right, you're a series e company, you're running rebops and marketing like everyone wants to sell to you. So I wrote an email that said, I don't know you, here's my Venmo link. If you've then maybe ten cents and I'll send that all to the wounded warrior project. I will guarantee I will read your email. And people started donating, but they didn't just start donating like ten cents, they started donating like five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars, and so I started to pay attention and I started to build it out and I started to talk to a lot of smart Martech people and everyone was like, Whoa, this is cool. So I'll pause there if you're free to ask questions, but yeah, I can. That's kind of the still took me about nine months from that point until I like took money and went and did get it. Interesting. Before we get to that real quick you mentioned up work box and culture amp, three amazingly successful companies. Anything that wouldn't be super obvious that you saw that were parallels between those three businesses and why they've been so successful. HMM. I think the go to market motion is different on every single one, and I tend to think about it is like what what's is goot to go to market motion? One demandsion Canada. I interview to culture IMP side, like I understand that what I've done in my last job won't work at this one. Perfectly right. So I think that's when you start to get mature. And so I would say there are no parallels other than they're all like in like kind of Sass Ish, but then I'll work was a little more of a marketplace, I think, just great people, right, like if you built, if you're building a great company, and often times becomes an attractor for really smart people and great nodes of talents. So every time I've been lucky enough to work in a great company, I've also been lucky enough to really learn from people that I've worked with as well to yeah, interesting. So you're at cold tramp, you're doing this little Venmo experiment that I feel like at first saves you time and then all of a sudden this is like maybe a side job that you created for yourself inadvertently, because you're taking all this money and then you're donating it and then you're kind of thinking about, you know, is this a is this something that I can create? So what was going on in the nine months between that and then when you you know, it sounds like he took investment and then started gated as its own entity. Yeah, so a COVID was happening. So I did have a little bit of extra I could I could massage my schedule. I was working to full time jobs with culture amp and then that, but my boss really believed in what I was working on the side as well too, and so he was super supportive and so I was able to kind of like balance my schedule and work nights and weekends. So yeah, I hired a sixteen year old kid who's a son of a friend of mine who's coming back again this summer. He built the he took it. So first...

...we built an air table and Zapier and we give it out to a couple people and then he took it out to like an actual database, because we run out a room and air table and I was able to give it away to like call twenty executives. Right. So Chris, the CEO of Sentoso, like Dan a Moudi, former outreach guy, like a lot of those people started to be users and they were like wow, this is really game changing. I think there were a couple questions that I saw that I was worried that would restrict the long term growth of it that we were able to find solutions for, and so I effectively did like all the product market fit in iteration, like on the side, and I got to a point when you actually, I guess there's a couple really influential people in sales that said to me early on like this has to work for both sides, and I believe that right. Like, we are not trying to kill outbound. What we're trying to do is stop the noise and give senders the incentive to be like should I send that email? We're not and force them to think. Right. So I've gotten hit by a woman shelling plastic shopping cards via email like I'm sorry, it's just not relevant right, like, and it should never have been sent. And so I think what we look at is it's not about shutting down the user's inbox. Right. It's much more around saying I don't want to see anything that's not relevant to me or from people I don't know. But if somebody believes that they're relevant and they're willing to put a little bit of money against that. Like yeah, I'm going to take a look at it. And so that's the beating of what we've done, which is, for users, we take off about thirty percent of the INBOX. For Senders, and we'll talk deeper about this, like we dramatically improve the reply rate because they're all the noise they're competing against is gone. HMM. Interesting. So so when you took it to to those folks, walk me through a little bit about how it works, because when I so as an experience of, you know, me sending an email. I was telling you before, I've sent one to Chris Rudy Grab. I've had them on this podcast actually, and got, you know, responsor news. You know this this templated email that was like hey, I don't know you, if you want to get directly to man box, you have to donate whatever it was, five dollars to whatever charity, and so, you know, can just kind of click the link and do that. How how do you know? How does Chris know whether or not he knows me? Like is there is there not a chance that I could have been a really good friend of his and you know I just hadn't reached out in a while. Or how does that actually work? Yes, that was one of the unlocks that we figured out in those like nine months. So below the donate it also says, Hey, if you know me, click here to verify and you can skip the donation. So that's kind of the otherwise it comes across, frankly, a little bit root of. Like I people emailing all the time, and so our system basically learns and watches as you use email. Right. So at the fundamental level, when somebody signs out, it takes about three minutes, but will scan their last twelve months of sent email. Never look at the contents, but we're a will see who they sent to and we say great, those people Chris knows. Then we'll say, Chris, here's a list of domains you've communicated with frequently and you can say I trust these.

From there the system is watching how Chris uses email and learning right. So say I introduced you to Chris and then you replied, because Chris is already trusted me, you would have been in. And so the system is really it's we've really understood like the dynamics of how you communicate, and so we try to make it all just work for you. But if, for some reason, you like I if I show up on a new email and try to email Chris again today, it's going to assume that I don't know Chris because that's an email Chris has never seen before. It'll send a challenge email that I can say, Hey, I know you, I click there and I'm through and that's it. Got You, got you. Okay. So going back to kind of like the the timeline that you were mentioning. So you know, you're busting this through with your friends, sixteen year old kid, which you know, he or she sounds very entrepreneurial, which is which is great. You've got these twenty, you know, folks that are pretty high up in the SASS world. You know, starting to see some value. Where do you? Where do you go from there? Like, how do you actually build this out? Yes, I hired a team in Russia and was some guy from box that knew a lot of Russian folks, and then also Melissa, who's my cofounder. She she happens to also be my sister, which is really cool. But she started geeking out on the website and the product marketing and building all that out, and she was leaving Google at the time and so I talked to her into joining and so she was helping on the side. I was work on side. I was probably every night at ten PM I was getting on for three hours with the Russians and you know, on the firm is starting to creep up, and so I'd get off a lot of calls where people would like serious go to market leaders, and we've got a lot of them that are invested. Would say like, can I hand you money to go solve this problem, because I think people realize that what we're trying to do is is potentially game changing in a good yeah, I mean I think it the the the you go to your website and you kind of have this like scroll through where you go down and it's like slack message here, text message here, email here, linkedin notification. And you know, I'm not an executive and I feel that. You know, I feel that from getting getting the slack from my boss or an SCR or someone in another department. I post on Linkedin a lot of get a lot of DM's, I get people trying to pitch me podcast production service all this stuff. And again, I'm a salesperson and so you know that's a lot different than you know. You as the CEO of a fast growing company. I can only imagine things. You're going to get hammered by this stuff too. So it's common, for sure, as you get more senior, to yeah, and like I can only imagine, you know, like got I work at, going like a meet our CEO. I could only a fathom what his email looks like, you know, especially the day after we announce a funding round. You know, it just must be absolutely crazy, and so I think we could all empathize with like the problem and and it needing to be solved. I've got a question, like how I went in there and saw it was free eat. Yep. How are you...

...making money? It's super easy. We take a cut thirty percent of the center donation we can get is gated, is completely free to users. I think here's how we look at it. There's tenzero tools helping sellers and marketers pummel users. Right. We believe that users shouldn't have to go pay to defend themselves. So we take thirty percent of every donation. A good chunk of that actually goes to fund the payment fees and then we take the rest and then the other seventy percent goes to the nonprofit. And so we are in this unique circumstance where we can give a tool away for free and still make money on it. Now we got to get a lot of users to make this work, but it's you know, and we're definitely still lose money, but we'll fix that pretty soon. Yeah, interesting. And do you can you choose any charity, or do you have like a selection that you partner with bottom millions? What I'd say? So we've got a partner that enables us to pretty much happen to any five hundred and one, c three that has like minimum financial requirements, and then we will look at things like the southerner, southern poverty law, hate list, like we won't work with those, but we try to be as a political as we can, because somebody's going to pick plan parenthood, somebody's going to pick the NRA, and that's okay for us. I think will our our vision is really like we want to go somewhere good. That means something to you? Yeah, yeah, that's it's very interesting. What like? What what push back to people believe in even give on this. You know, I feel like it's kind of a no brainer to have this, because you don't nobody wants unnecessary noise in their inbox. Right. So, like what push back do you get when you're going to an investor? You're going to talk to someone about this? Yeah, maybe up put the investors to deciders that we can have to go to that road to. We've got some good ones. We're doing something different, right. So think about it. Like sixteen years ago, fifteen years ago, you wouldn't have gotten in a car with a stranger. It felt weird, it felt creepy. Now you were everywhere. You wouldn't had somebody crash on your couch. Now it's okay. Calndley is a perfect comparable right. Like it felt weird the first time somebody's like you're sending somebody a sales emails that they like just book, you know, and like you're like come on then, like just tell me yes or no and like tell me a time. Those things are all normal right now. So we are pushing people to think a little bit differently. When you sign up for gated, you have to attach your brand of that. Now, if you're an earlier adopt. That's weird and you're like hey, I worried a little about that. I've talked to one names, names of people, but somebody we both know that was like, Hey, I don't want appear inaccessible right. So I think those are the two things. As this becomes more and more prevalent and more standard, like it becomes accepted and normal, and so it's very similar like the Calundley or all these other things. And so we are. There's plenty of examples out there of things that felt weird or normal at first and are now totally normal, right, like wearing a mask, like who did that three years ago? Now every yeah, interesting. That's the I...

...mean. I think there's that plus awareness, and you're helped me without right here, right. He's like ninety five percent times people and they hear about their like I get it. If there's the resonates and like I understand what you're doing. And Yeah, it pushes some people slightly out of their comfort zone, but like, we sent a million challenge emails, like no one's flipped out, like this is this is people respect that. People are just trying to like control their own attention in their own time. What's interesting to me is that you? So you come from? You know, it sounds like you did a lot of different things, but a lot of it in like, you know, marketing ops, revops, demand Jen prior to this. So if you were a demand JEN leader, right, and and I used to sell demand Jen and contents indication now was my first job out of school. And so you send like this big like email blast through some sort of provider and you get a hundred responses, a thousand responses to people with with gated email, you know, kind of pushbacks. Like would you suggest that folks like make those donations at scale, like if you're paying for that person as a lead, like where did the where does the I guess economics work when it's not me as a sales rep and like you're my top prospect and for sure I'll donate five bucks, two wounded warrior. That makes that easily. It has potential Roy for me. But how do you do that at scale? Maybe if you're a marketer. I guess I'd break it down into two buckets. I think there is like first off, there's personally mail and you can make, you know, individual decisions on that. Do you want to make it through and what'ch the decision. Second is there's like one to one email at scale. So think of like outreach, sales, loft, groove and I'll play, and people like that, right. I The economics of that payoff all day long, right, if you're trying to reach somebody. So I think you and I were talking before we opted on but like typical outbound reply rates one and a half to two percent per all of those companies. If you donate veha gated and the average minimum donation is two dollars, reply rates forty six percent. So yes, that are a lie. Pencils all day long. I've sat down with some of the top St our leaders in the country and we've literally built a model of like okay, yeah, that sounds great, but like if everyone's doing it, it still pencils. But here's what it means. It changes the SDR rule. Right, instead of the role where you're getting ghosted all the time and you're just like punching buttons and trying phone calls and it's a shitty role, it's a more it's a higher price role where you're talking to people more often and it's more around like communication and connections, right. So in that world. We say, instead of sending a hundred emails and getting two replies, sent ten and get five or place. It's a better role. Okay, so that's the SDR world. Now let's talk marketing. I remember at culture amp somebody we've sold software to HR people and someone came to me and said, Lis'sen, I got a blast to seven hundred thousand people in h in the HR profession. Do you want in? And I said no, that sounds just terrible. It's in personal it's all this stuff. So I mean to be candid, I think we want to go kill a lot of that stuff,... unmonitored mass email at scale, to gigantic lists. Yeah, sometimes people vopted in and if you've opted in you can take it from your gate Boler, you can drag a teaing box and brow that persons aloud. But there's a lot of mailing list that we're all on, either by choice or increasingly be able to stick you on them, that we don't want to be on. And I mean I've gotten fourteen from one vendor in the last three days. I still peek out him in my gated volder. I still see him and I smile because they're not hitting my inbox, so that stuff should kind of go die. Is What we believe like we believe in creating. You're younger than I am, but in I went to Princeton Freshman year and I'd never seen an email and they were like here's this new thing called email. Right, every time I came to the lab I was so excited because everyone in there was a person sending me an email. An email is unfortunately suffers from the problem of the Commons, which is, you know, doesn't cost anything to send, so people send a lot of crap. We're trying to do with the crap. HMM. Well, yeah, it's just like you know now, I'm sure that was the same when people first mailed letters, and now you know, I get one personal letter a year on my birthday, and that's about him. You know, everything else is junk male. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, I do take solvice there every time I walk to the mailbox and I pulled out at least those people paid something for you, right, like yeah, they paid the marginal cost to deliver it. Marthw tyler, that wrote predictable revenue there and Ross like she she came up with a quote of like gates, the postage stamp for email and that's it's we like that analogy. Yeah, that's that's interesting. Talk to me about your sister being your cofounder. How did that happen? It's good. I mean she's eight years younger than me. You know, we never really tell people like on day one, but before we ever work with some people like let's just make sure, I think in you have to have her on at some point in time because she's a marketing whiz. But like Melissa has, you know, she's fourteen years ago Gole. I've worked with four CMOS AT UNICORNS and I can say that Melissa can hold a candle. All those people like she's she's really good, and so I don't think any you'd have to ask her too, because but I don't think we work like brother and sister. We've got a third member of these secutive team who's not related, and you know that was probably a consideration for him coming in. But I think we treat each other like business people in that setting. I mean Melissa's eight years younger, so like I would off to college when she was, you know, at ten and stuff like that. So we haven't and she lives in Alaska, and so I think it work. It's worked really well. I think it's nice to have a little bit of that like, Hey, you may be able to like have harder conversation sometimes because you've got that like base level of stuff, but I really respect her. It's kind of fun working with your sister in some ways and she's really good at what she does, so it's fun on that side. Yeah, well, I'd be I'd be happy to have her on and pick her brain. Regarding marketing, talk to me a little bit about sounds like earlier in your career you, you know, you started some companies, you ran some companies, then you, you know, pivoted and got into more of like the director vp type of role at like these fast grows, cut growth companies, and... you're back to, you know, the cofounder roll, you know, years later. How is that transition? How is that a transition originally from like I'm running this to like now I'm, you know, one of hundreds or thousands of people, to now I'm like okay, now back of one of you. Know, I think there's what four or five or six of you at this point. This the first time I've ever gone from like no product market fit to figure it out. I think for me I'm generally like the person that takes you from product market fit to a hundred million revenues. So for me it was the mental thing of them. Am I ready to start this? Is this good enough that I'm going to take in bet the next five years of my life or the rest of it if this really works? And so I don't think I've ever gone through that product market fit before and it's hard as a nontechnical founder. For sure. Right, like I faked it for a long time until we hire Allen and Alan runs product and Eche for us now and Super Smart. So I'd say I don't know. I mean it's every time it's different. I this is true. The first time. I I think of myself as I founder. I know other things may say founder on the Linkedin but I've I've always been joining when people figured out some of that stuff before. Yeah, what any any out like challenges, issues, mistakes you made, like in the product market fit, trying to figure that out for the first time now this has had so crystal clear product market fit it's scary really. See. Yeah, like I remember when I joined a culture at right like I looked at the MPs. I talk to some customers as like yeah, this thing's going to take off. The our retention is off the chart. Our users love us. I mean I think there's a hundred testimonials in a couple months from users. People can't look like the one time we had a bug, everyone was like I need this back right now, because in box used to only be good when I woke up in the morning and now there's this person I don't know and who are they and why are they here and they haven't donated. So we've got something people up and the cool thing is the senders love it too. The there's definitely this reaction of like, Oh God, I hated gated it first and then I understood what it was all about and what it could do for me and now I'm super pumped in. I don't every single time. So I think you know, the center journey has been a little bit more nuanced, but I think we got problem. We've not struggle for product market fare. Yeah, that's interesting. I'd love to. I don't I guess I don't know how you would find this, but I would love to see the data of the percentage of scrs and a's that are prospecting that get a gated you know gate. I guess from an email the percentage that actually go through at the donation because we're my head goes is as a salesperson, you actually doing that could is a way to differentiate yourself, not only like hopefully you send a better email because of it, but also, you know, if me and my five competitors all reach out to you and they saw that and they just deleted that. I got it's too much work and I do it, then that's a pretty distinct advantage to have over the competition. Yeah, we...

...just roll dashboard internal only, but it's got the on the x axis. I'm actually pulling it up so I can shut out a couple people right now. But on the x axis it's got like the percentage of the reply rate that they have and on the y axis it has like the number of times that they're donating, right. And so I see all these these domains that are getting like a hundred percent reply rate for every time they donate and their own donating ten percent of the time and I want to Bob them on the head. And so, like we've reached out to a bunch of those. And Yeah, it is a good thing and I think it. We even have like forty sender testimonials there, if people are like, I get this, and so I think that's partially why it's fun to be on this call, because if we can demistify, gain it and make it not a fearful thing for people, both for users and per senders, that's a good thing. Right. Like this is think about it. Is like the ten most annoying emails you ever got. You're like, why is this person email on me? I have no verlet no relevance to it at all. Those are gone and it's so if you're a user, you don't have to deal with those, and if you're a sender, you're not competing with us. Yeah, and that it's feedback. You know not to not to name drop it. It's feedback that you know folks from Gong or others in the space get as well. You know, the initial response from a lot of sales reps is like, well, why would you record a call? You know why? You overlooking that, and then you know later they say, Oh, is the best thing I've ever used because it helps me in it saves me five hours a week or whatever. It might be. I think there's a lot of technology like that, especially for sales people, because we're just so stubborn and you know, we just have our own quirks. But it looks negative on the service and then, once you really dig into it, as like, oh no, that's actually really benefiting. I couldn't agree more. gongs some phenomenal example that like it could seem creepy as a as as seller, but if the people that were the best sellers know exactly how you use it, I'm a big fan of it as well too. So that's neat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Andy, I want to I want to hit with a couple rapid fires. Let the audience in a little bit about you. Shoot. All right. So first up, we're big learners on this podcast. Curious, not sure it looks like you are a reader. If I'm looking over your right shoulder. Any books that have been, you know, really impactful for you in your career, for you as a person, and he genres is fair game. Yeah, I don't read. I only read non fiction. My Grandmother said the world's interesting enough, so I'll I could probably drop a fun reading list, but you know, if there's one people are just trying to grow up business like this. There's this book called traction. There's like seven of them, all by different people, different topics, but there's a book called traction. It's got a blue cover. It's on Amazon, like it's a great read of like if you want to figure out, like how do you grow a company and what are all the different tactics and how you prioritize and move fast. So I buy that for people all the time. That's the Eos, right, the ENTRENEUR entrepreneurial operating system? Or No, no, it's a different one. I'll find it in two seconds. Okay, hit me a new question.

M Two, about time you're done, I'll I think I catch you. Okay, other ways that that you like to learn? I'm not sure if you if you listen to podcast, if you subscribe to newsletters or blogs or follow people on Linkedin, but anything that you've been kind of diving into recently in your learning journey? Yeah, I'd say I have discovered and I think I've been increasing learning. Like I don't consume content on email right, like that's a it's a mental distinction I've made. It's I don't think. I don't think it's because I gated. But like when I'm in email mode, I'm in like processing and action, and so I tend to consume all my content on like flipboard or something like that. I I'd say to I allowed to email newsletters into my inbox, first round capital and Metadata from Mark Cooper and team like. Those are phenomenal reads and May do great content and they invest in they do really good stuff. Beyond that, like I don't touch it on email. Yeah, just I tend to read what people in my network chair to me. I don't do a lot of podcast listening either. Yeah, yeah, got, you make sense. What goes on in the and EMO at headphones? Music Wise, probably the same song over and over again. I have no musical talent. But like one time somebody gave me a country CD and like I ended up listen to country for four years. I have never owned that big blinder of CDs. I never spent a time on that. So I probably little bit richer for that. So right now I think it's like cowboy and La by Lonnie. I just sit there and I just that goes on like for two hours while I'm working. Yeah, you know, I don't have to get distracted by a different song or song I don't like. Yeah, yeah, that's actually I've done the same thing and I've also I've gotten some points to listening to like soundtracks from movies that and they just it's just like a for hour loop on Youtube and it just yea a gladiator one where I got that like instrumental one, like I've that was like for four months I was like my work song, I haven't, I haven't done the gladiator and I'll have to check that one out. I was getting too I'm making a lot of money for one artist at the time on spotify. Yeah, exactly exactly, to get invited to the Lonnie or heart of it, I didn't know how to say it, like their fan club in their concerts because I listened to them so much. Really, that's it. Yeah, that's not I like the bandage. The song works like that. One size, just one song helps him work. What's one thing that you do outside of work to recharge? I walk, HMM, I walked to pick up on and walk. I walked through or four times a day. Just try to get to headclaire and don't look at the phone and you oftentimes get your best inspiration there. I find the best ideas I get are on a good walk, especially like an afternoon walk, when you've been you've been chugging through the day and it's, you know, maybe like two, three o'clock and you're getting a little brain fin like, let me just take fifteen minutes, get out in the sunshine a little bit and then something just POPs to you. Yeah, that survivor and in the warrior. So those three things are good for him. What was the second survivor? Survivor, man, are they still making that? Forty two this year? Yeah, the yeah, that's hilarious. Well, we won't touch on the warriors.

We'll give you a break on that one. Okay, next question. Who's someone that you would want to see come on the pavilion podcast? You should have Sam Lavan, CEO of Mad Cou on, if you haven't had him yet. He Sam is Super Smart. He's I found him when I was hating on hub spots scoring model because I you know, scoring shouldn't be black box for sales people. They've done it better than anyone else. Like if you think of like world class lead scoring, like Sam's got it. But he's also friend and advisor. He's he's my only board member. He pushes my thinking and he's probably one of the smartest guys I know. Plus it was his son I hired, so it all worked out. Got You, got you, and he's sorry. The CEO of what business, mad coud Ku, do you got you? Okay, there they're pretty neat. If you're in marketing ops, you know it, especially in plg. Got You, okay, off to check him out. Sam, you will get an email for me and I will donate to the charity of your choice, I'm sure, because I'm sure you have gated my last one for you. Is there any do you have any favorite quotes, philosophies, you live by, mantras, anything like that that stands out to you? Yeah, Steve Jobs. I mean the guy was an interesting cat for sure, but I think his quote around wire. Why else we hear but to make a dent in the universe like that? That's what we're all about here. Indicated like this is not a small thing with a couple hundred users, like we're af to give gated away three, two millions of people and make the universe better. That's I've spent twenty years on the other side of it. Like pummeling people. So it's my chance to give back. Yeah, it's got to feel good. Like how much are you able to share how much money you've raised for charities? At this point? We have not shared that yet. I think you know. So the way we look at is what percentage of users receive a donation the last thirty days, which is very high. But we've not focused on mot we focus more on productivity, to monetization. Yeah, but not being said, like you know, I know a very high percentage of people we are making money on every single month. So, yeah, we're also like our unit economics are grace. Just we aren't big enough yet, right. So then then the numbers get really big with the fast yeah. Yeah, well, I also there's like just the thought of, like, you know, if millions of people ultimately are using this, then you know, you could you could come up with a number of you know, how much you are in somewhat enforcing or empowering people to donate to charity. And it's like all of a sudden, you know you're helping people at their INBOX, you're helping make connections and then you're also helping those charities out. Obviously that that you're involved with. So it's kind of like a triple threat there. Well, there's that. We helped charities in three ways. We obviously give them money like that they would never have had before. We help them, like imagine, it's not just the dollar that you get,...

...but the other two hundred messages that like have that charities brand out there right. And then, finally, like, a lot of our users join and they don't have a nonprofit to matters to them, so we help them find the right one for them. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. And anything that we we didn't get to here before we before we wrap up. No, you touched on a little bit, but the manifest so that we built. You kind of obviously stumbled upon that, which is pretty cool. I think I'm a big believer in brand. At culture amp we built an amazing brand and and people really understood it and embraced it. I think you know, we're not just building an APP, we're building a movement and brand is a been part of that as well. To Hmm, I love it. Where's the best place for folks if they want to learn more about gated, if they want to reach out to you? What's what's the best. We lease Andia, gatedcom and I anyone that donates will get a reply from me, guaranteed and GATCOM. Everything's there. Awesome and appreciate you coming on. Man, I was awesome all right. Thanks for checking that episode out. This was brought to you by contract book. Contract Books Digital Contract Management Platform allows scaling businesses to automate and manage the entire contract life cycle in one flow. Get started for free at contract bookcom. Will be back next week with another episode. Peace,.

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