The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 188: Building Sales Grit w/ Nate Richard, Head of GTM, Databased


Ep 188: Building Sales Grit w/ Nate Richard, VP GTM, Databased 

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

Welcome to another episode of the Pavilion podcast. This is your host, Tom Alemo. Thank God it's Monday. This is where we share the tips, the tricks of tactics that you need to be successful as a revenue operator in this world. Excited to be here, excited to get into the content today. Before we do that, let me give a quick shout to our sponsor. So in January, show pad is sponsoring the podcast. Show pad is a global leader and revenue enablement technology. Allow us to add some context to that. To some, revenue enablement means making sure your revenue teams have access to the right content at the right time. To us, it means helping revenue teams create rich experiences for buyers, engaging whole buying teams in virtual deal rooms and using data insights to spot and ten spikes, improve marketing content and conquer the world and more than fifty countries customers rely on the show pad revenue enablement platform to build the collaborative experiences buying teams love, so opportunities turn into revening faster. Show pad has been named a strong performer by foresters wave for sales content solutions, recognized as a top ten software company by G two and listed into Lloyd's Fast Fifty. Learn more at show pad dot calm. You can also hit me up on Linkedin. My Name's Tom Alemo. I work over at Gong and you can check out a content that put out every single day about sales and about podcasting in mindset. So check me out there. Now let's get into today's episode. All Right, today I've got a killer episode with Nate rechhard. Nate is the head of go to market over a database. He joined there about nine months ago, but prior to that he spent nearly six years at qualit tricks. He saw multiple rounds of funding, he saw an acquisition testap and then he also saw an Ipoh, which is a trifected at very few people will see all at the same company, let alone even in their whole career. Before that, he spent about six and a half years at vivint study at by you. We talked about his start in two sales, how he developed his sales grit and his toughness, his leadership experience, the amazing run a quality tricks and what they're doing at database. This is a great, great, great episode. Think you're going to enjoy it. Nate also gets in a little bit to the fitness side of life and talking about how he's training for half marathons and some newby marathon. So I think you're going to enjoy this one. Without further ADO, here is nate Richard. All right, next up on the PODCAST. You got nate Richard. Nate, what's going on, man, how are you? I'm doing wonderful. Are you doing? Tom Good. We got the matching the matching hoodie. We knew the assignment. We got the tech, the Tech Hoodie going ready to go today exactly. That's how you know it's leget. Well, I'm excited to excited to have you on. Man. The first thing that came to my mom when I was checking you out on Linkedin was the was the college background? premed? Now like sales leader been in sales for decades now. My mom was actually the same way. She was a chemistry major, then got into sales and then later into marketing. So just just curious, like you know, before we get into everything else your career, like walk me through that time period, like you know, do it all the premedwork grinded in college and then somehow making your way into the sales world. Yeah. So, so my story in the cells is a little bit unorthodox. So I was, like you said, I was doing my Undergrad and premed studies. I had always thought I wanted to go into orthopedic surgery. So I was kind of track that I was on and I had one summer I had a roommate of mine who went and did door to door cells and he came back. He went to Canada of all places, and he came back and he made something like seven year a k and at that time that would have paid for my entire Undergrad, paid off my car, had some money left over to have fun, and so I thought no way. I was like I don't believe that. I was like show me your you know, show me your pay stuffs of your bank account. So... have shown me. I was like okay, it checked out. And so right at that time it was it was coming up to a point where I had to kind of decide, like what am I going to do to kind of pay for schooling? And you know, do I go? I'm from Texas originally, so do I fly back to Texas and, you know, take a job there during the summer? Do I'd work somewhere and Utah, where I was going to school, and I ended up just making the decision to try this storeto door thing. I thought, okay, my buddy can do it and there's a few other guys that are doing it, I'm going to go give it a try. And so I ended up at the time, you know, had hardly any money. I think I like fifteen hundreds in my account, had this old beat up car, I had like a hundred eighty thousand miles on it and even had a dog from like a previous relationship that I was in. And so I like through everything in the car and packed myself up and drove all the way up into Canada to go work for this small company up there and do door to door cells. And so, you know, ended up doing that and and having a fairly decent first summer doing that, where I was able to kind of pay everything off and so just kind of open my mind up a little bit too. Maybe there's another career pathway here for me. That's not what I had originally thought. So I was kind of the beginning of it all right. So I got a few a few questions for you. One, are you saying that your friend Made Seventy or eight K in the summer or in the whole year. Yeah, and the summer. So he went and worked from the end of April, right when the semester was over, and he got back at the end of August. Wow, and he was that's in college. That was in college. Yeah, and so my perception of door to door cells was kind of the stereotypical like the guys that show up trying to sell the magazines or newspapers, yeah, or like the cleaning solution, which they always seem to like sucker my dad into buying. Yeah, and he was selling home automation and like security systems, and I just didn't know anything about that world at all and when he introduced it to me, I ended up realizing, like, there's a lot of guys that are making quite a bit of money doing this. Is a hundred percent commission. So if you didn't sell anything, you know it was it was pretty high risk. But there was quite a few guys that were doing that in college and were able to kind of pay their way and stayed that free. So is interesting to me. That's crazy. What's your so I started similarly. I did CUTCO knives in Cokay, I think maybe they formerly did doortodoor. They didn't do that when I was there. It was you had to do. It was all cold calling and set up meetings. Were always curious, like for the door or what's your opener to get people to actually open the door and have a conversation with you. So at the time it's all about breaking preoccupation, which I guess you could say is you know, it carries over into SASS cells as well. Right, like when you cold call somebody, the main goals are trying to break preoccupation and then try to try to convey something in a really quick period of time that gets their interests or convey some sort of value. And so in doortodoor selling home automation, we were selling up in these oil towns in northern Alberta. I mean I'm talking like you drive twelve hours north of the border to before you get to these remote places, and these oil guys are making a ton of money and we're buying a whole bunch of toys at a TV's and quasi's lifted trucks and everything. But the crime was really high because there wasn't any security providers in that area, and so the pitch was pretty simple. It was, hey, if you stick a sign out in your yard and you advertise for us that were local and that were available here, like, will pay for all of the equipment in the home and install it for you for free, and they just pay a monthly sub scription. And so, you know, you do like a lot of name like once you'd sell one in the neighborhood. You do a lot of name dropping, like, Oh yeah, you know Jerry down the street, like you told me to swing on by and people would say, like, I'm not interested. You're like, oh, that's exactly why I'm here and they kind of just look at you like the kind of off that way. And so there's some tricks of the trade when you get into doortodoor sales. But yeah, that's where I started, man, just knock in doors and and working out a hundred percent commission job. That's awesome. And then straight off of that you obviously knew, Hey, this is a great way to make money, I'm good at this, something I like, and you went straight into sales right after school. Yeah, yeah, so so it's funny because I...

...actually wasn't very good at doortodoor initially. So I went up there and I knocked with my friend for the first day and he kind of showed me what he was saying and everything. So the next day I went out on my own. I sold to two sales and at the time we were getting paid like four or five hundred dollars apiece, and so for me, as a college kid like, I had never made more than a thousand in like a week or two and so to do it in the day, I was like Oh wow, and I started to kind of do like the mental math of like, okay, if I'm doing six days a week out here for four months, like what could I pull in? And so I I got kind of cocky and I went like two weeks with nothing. I just bageled every day, and so, you know, I kind of went through the whole like Oh man, maybe I'm not really cut out for this, maybe I can't do this. And you know, like I said before, I didn't really have a lot of money at the time, and so I was that was kind of shrinking a little bit because you having to pay for gas every day and pay for your housing everything, and so I kind of came to this crossroads of like all right, do I dick this through? Do I try to figure out how to get good at this and kind of eat the humble pie, or do I decide to kind of Tuck my tail between my legs and go back to, you know, getting a campus job or something? And I just thought about it one night. It kind of kept me up real late and I just decided like if other people can do it, there's got to be a way I can do it as well, and so I just got to get like manialy focused on getting good at this, and so I just made that decision. I call my manager the next day and I said, Hey, every time I get rejected or I lose a cell, or however it goes, I'm going to call you. Let's roll play. I want you to give me feedback on what I'm not saying right or what I'm not doing right. Let me get good at it. And then at night I get back around nine or ten o'clock at night and I just spend a couple hours every night talking to guys that we're doing it well, picking their brains. We had some training material. Go read through that every night, and so eventually I started going from Zeros every day to maybe one cell a day and then it followed by a couple Zeros and then it'd be more consistent. It would be one cell every day and then it would be eventually maybe one and then two. And then where it kind of turned for me where I was like okay, I think I want to there's something in sales for me, is I had a Saturday where I went and I worked for like ten or eleven hours and I got six and one day, and you know, that was enough to pay off the rest of my car and that one day. And so it just changed my whole paradigm around like where I was going to go in my career. So I ended up doing this for like another three summers and and then at that point is when I kind of transition a little bit more and decided to not pursue medical and actually go into more of like the corporate selling. So what do you think that is? Because that behavior is not normal, right, like if you're if you're struggling with something, the normal human tendency is probably to say this might not be for me or, in the best case, like yeah, I'm going to ride this out. And like you know, I had a couple bad days or a couple bad weeks, but I'll get back to normal. And you went into like just like full just went hamd with it right, like to call your boss after every time you get rejected and to do the role play and to do the materials after work, like you know, you've seen enough sales people. You know that's not that's not what the average salesperson does. So I'm just curious, like what what was driving you at that moment to work that hard and to focus that hard to be successful. Yeah, so I all the way back then, I think you know, anyone who's been in cells for a while knows that it's a mental game and as a company we did a lot of training on your mindset and how to start visualizing success, and I remember there was a training that we did one morning where it was like hey, if you see a house that's got that evidence of like this person's got money and we know there's crime in the area, you should be thinking and telling yourself like, oh sweet, this is a seal, it's in the bag as you're approaching the house and just thinking that what kind of change your attitude towards what the possible welcome would be. And then secondly, it was like if other people are doing it, like why can't you? HMM, and so it's I think it was just a little bit of self belief, like I think through high school and stuff, being in...

...sports, you know, I kind of developed that a little bit of like Hey, if you apply yourself and you get focused on something, you know there's there's not a lot of people out in the world that can't make something of themselves if they choose to do that. And so I just kind of had a little bit of that that personal like self efficacy. But I definitely went through the doubts and kind of the struggles of like why can I do this? Initially right, like there are people I went like five or six days straight and that first week with nothing and there would be guys, you know, selling three or four a day, and so that was pretty humbling and I remember my manager just said, look, when you first get in sales, a lot of people think that they're going to be good if they can talk well and they're like social, like they can get along with other people. But there's a whole skill set in a craft you have to go learn and do well at in order to have any success in it, and so he's like, you're just starting. So what you thought you might be because you got a couple easy wins the first day. He's like that's probably not what it is, and he was really good at kind of helping, you know, be a support system for me through that. So did that, you know, apply once you went into the the corporate sales world, like where you just like years ahead of people that are just graduating college and never done it before because of that background? Now, I think it definitely gave me an edge in terms of being self reliant, because for four years I made my money on one hundred percent commission, and so it was all about results. And so at the end of the day, if you didn't find a way to produce, you didn't get paid anything. And and so going into Sass where typically your half of your compensation is salary, so you could sell zero, maybe not for very long, but technically you can still get paid something, I just had already kind of been wired a little bit differently mentally to be like, okay, I'm not going to succeed unless if I can go produce. So I just kind of brought that mindset in with me when I transition that's got to be like somewhat freeing in a way, right that it's kind of like if everything goes to shit with my career, you know, I joined the wrong company early on or things don't work out, like that's the ultimate you know, being able to kind of like scrap it out on your own if you you've already proven yourself for four years that you can do it. You're only going to make whatever you sell on. In my mind, I feel like that would give me the confidence that, hey, even if this things don't work out at this first GIG or, you know, I don't perform as well as I'd like or the company goes under or whatever, I'm going to be successful and I'm going to figure this out. And I tell as many young people that get into that are interested in sales, that are in college or high school or or even in another profession, like go do a summer or a year in. So I say cut COO, but it would be the same thing as what you're talking about right where. You know, it's all commissioned there as well, and it's like go see if you like it, and there's some people that love it and then I see them be Cros you know later down what, down the road? And there's some people that hate it and you know they're not in sales now because they figured out real quick that that just wasn't the right job for them. Yeah, that's really well said. I mean there's something to be to be said for going into like a high risk environment and seeing, like how can you produce under pressure like that constantly? And it's a skill like anything else, you know, like we're not all inherently born as sells people. We might be good at talking with people, we might some might be more naturally resilient than others, but like, these are all skills that are developed over time. And so when you kind of put yourself in a position where every single day you have the risk of failure like that, if you don't sell, you don't make money. It's unlike any other job. But it also gives an opportunity to whoever's choosing to do that to really build resiliency in a way unlike any other. And then, like you said, you know that can that can benefit you and the years to come, because when the going gets stuff you're like, well, I've really kind of been exposed like as bad as it can get like I've had several weeks of making... dollars after, you know, sixty hour work week. So what else? What else could the world throughout me that I couldn't, you know, overcome? Yeah, I think it's just like it's adding on. I talked a lot about on the PODCAST, like it's important to do hard shit right, and it could have been that job. It could be you know, you're into, you know, running marathons or whatever it might be. That just kind of like tells yourself that, you know, you're someone that can handle tough situations so when you get put in them, you're ready to go. I'd love to switch gears and talk about the qual tricks run for a bit, because it's not every day you see someone's job there somewhere for, you know, a few years and went through several funding rounds and then an acquisition and then also an IPO. So I'd love for you to just talk about about the run there and you know what your roles were like during that stretch of your career. It's called the double dipping strategy to be acquired and then IPO a few years later. Yeah, so I went from door to door to working for that same company, but on their corporate office and to like more of an inside cells function. And so I did that for nearly four years. When in the management we had a guy from Cisco who also had an NBA Duke, was like Super Smart, as name of Scott Hardy. He came in at Vivent as our co and then we also had a president at the time named David Bywater, who is also like an x Bain consultant, came in. And so once I got into leadership, my vision on like what I wanted to do for my career changed a little bit. It went from more of an individual contributor mindset of like oh I I can make a bigger impact, at least for me personally, at scale, if I take on leadership roles and, addition, frow responsibility. And so when I started taking that on, when I was at Vivnt, we grew an inside cells function from about fifty reps to about three hundred, and so through that we went through quite a bit of evolution and then eventually that company was purchased by Blackstone Group for two point two billion. And so after that run I was kind of left with like okay, what's the next thing? And there wasn't really anything immediate for me to take on that would be bigger and impact. And so I ran into an old friend of mine who I hadn't seen for fifteen years. He's a buddy of mine from Texas and at this point, like we're both married have kids. As kind of crazy we we randomly run into each other and he's like, Oh, I'm working at this hypergrowth company called qual tricks. We're starting to like really aggressively expand. He's like you should come take a look. So I went over there, did an interview on site and just something felt different about qual tricks. There's this kind of energy, kind of like a palpable energy on the floor and at the time they had three hundred employees. They just did a series see for I think, around a hundred and eighty million and we're starting to expand globally. And so I did the interviews and they said, you know what, we don't hire any leaders from outside, especially those that come from more like B Toc, and so you're going to have if you want to join, we'd love to have you joined, but you're going to have to come in as like a senior AE. And so I kind of struggle with that for a little bit because, like, Oh, a man, the last five years I've kind of built up my career to be like on this leadership track, that's what I want to do. But I also saw the potential and qual tricks and what it could become. And so and I also knew I could bet on myself to go and perform for a short time in that role and then be able to go back in leadership. So, after talking to my wife, I ended up making that decision and she's like, you're going to do what now you get seems like you're taking a step back, and I said no, I promise you. Like this company's different, it's unique, and so I ended up going over as a senior a for about a year, you know, led the department in a lot of the sales there, and then promoted quickly back into cells leadership and then from there. Yeah, like you said, it was a pretty wild ride. Like we ended up growing from three hundred employees to roughly for thousand two hundred. We blew up and had, I think at the time eighteen or nineteen office is globally that we ended up opening. And so it was. It was amazing just to be able to be part of that journey through that evolution of going from three hundred hyper growth to, you know, just over four thousand eventually,... you said, being acquired by sap for eight billion and then two years later, spinning out and go and having an Ipoh for just north of twenty billion. So it was it was a great time. Well, the the billions just keep stacking up on your on your resume, right, it goes from two to what, to eight and then to twenty. So means database is on for like a fifty billion dollar, you know, IPO. It's exactly any if any of our investors are listening, that's exactly right. It's going to be at least fifty billion. Blush. That's great. I'd love to tone it is very interesting talk, hearing you talk about the kind of take a step back to hopefully take three steps forward. I actually did something similar. I was managing team and took a step back to join Gong and, you know, be a rep when I joined a earlier last year with kind of the same sort of strategy. And if it seems like, looking back on it, that was the right decision for you. Yeah, yeah, for me it definitely was. I probably grew ten times more during the time I was at qual tricks and anything else, and so I looked at it as an investment and it definitely paid off. I'm curious for you. What was kind of your reasoning behind willing being willing to do that? Yeah, I think it was the same thing. It was kind of like I felt it still do, but I felt just even in the interview process, like this this different type of energy at Gong and I have I have a friend that initially referred me in. That was a rep and he was like, dude, like, I know you, like you got to come over here, like you love sales, you love sales tech, you have a growth mindset, like that's what this company's all about. And as soon as I started meeting people, I'm like this is the spot and so and I asked a few mentors to and they're like, Hey, if you take a step back, you know your I'm twenty eight. It's like you take a step back, you got a lot of time and hopefully shoot forward. So that was that was my and I'm glad I did it, but it's humbling to to do that on paper when people see that and it's like, Oh, I don't know if I see the vision you know originally, but kind of just know what's right for you. I think. Yeah, and I think you almost in a way force yourself to commit and follow through and make sure it happens because, like, if you do care about the optics of like what that could look like on your asume, you better damn well make sure, like you go and perform. Well, dude, right, like, if you're going to make if you're going to make that that step back to possibly have a much bigger gain forward, you better go deliver on it. And so for me it was like a little bit of a higher stakes thing where I'm like, okay, if I'm going to give up what I'm doing now and I'm on a trajectory where I could just stay and maybe a few years later, you know, promote again and then few years after that, promote, I just wanted something a little bit more aggressive, something that would stretch me about, and so you do that. But I mean, you see that all the time nowadays. Right, if people get too infatuated with the title to early on in their career, it can actually become an impediment to them and their progress, because all they end up looking for is just the title. And so if you're like a VP or CRO on paper too earlier in your career, you're now kind of in a weird spot. Like do you only take those types of jobs because of the preservation of the title, the optics of it? Are you willing to kind of take the step back for maybe a better opportunity? And don't even get me started on the the quote unquote directors of sales that like I see I'm like, Oh shit, like, congrats on the roll, and there like how many people you menage that? Oh, none, I'm just I'm a rep, but I'm a director of rap, you know, director wrap, like that's not like there's just there's a lot of there's a lot of yeah, a lot of phony title and a title inflations of better way to put a more pr way to put put it. But yeah, I agree with you. I think you know, if you there's a huge difference in being the CRO at sales force and be in the CRO at, you know, a twenty person start up right, and not that you know there's anything wrong with with going to start up route, of course, but I think just understanding your where you can go and not, you know, being so have the ego tied to the title. To earlyis is a great yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's talk for few minutes about database. Maybe you could educate the audience a...

...little bit on what you guys are doing and kind of like where you fit in the market right now. Yeah, so the origin story of database actually goes back to the qual trick stays. So as we were experiencing hypergrowth where, you know, we started getting to a point where we're adding multiple sales teams a quarter, it became really hard as a sales organization and for those of us that were in leadership to be able to understand and essentially have visibility into and and access to, what is the day to day productivity look like for the whole sales organization? Who are our hardest workers and who are hardest workers that maybe aren't succeeding, but they're putting in the effort, so they just maybe need to be trained or develop a little bit more and that's all that that's needed to get them to go hit? Who are the people that are doing both, like they're both highly skilled and they're working hard. Who are the people that maybe have had success and are letting their foot off the gas a little bit. And the whole approach was to try to develop a system where we could proactively understand those indicators and then a dress them quickly and then be able to ensure that we are staying on track and as an organization, to go hit our numbers. I think every single year I was at qual tricks, it was fifty percent your your growth, and that was in the hundreds of millions, and so it started to become really, really hard to make sure that we were consistently hitting quota every single quarter and every single year, and so we ended up developing kind of a rudimentary version of database there which was visualizing all of that performance on a quadrants. You think about like Gartner's magic quadrant. It's easy to kind of go see who are the WHO's leading the pack, who's maybe the UPANDCOMING, etc. And so we ended up just doing that with the entire cells organization. And so fast forward to now our global VPS cells. His name is Dan Watkins. He and I worked closely together at qual Chris and had a really good relationship. You know, the way that we're wired is very similar as well, and so he ended up personally founding and funding database about a year and a half ago with his brother, as brother, Dustin, as an engineer, and so we just started taking a lot of that methodology that we had battle tested at qual tricks to go and achieve hypergrowth and starting to say, like, let's productizes that, like let's try to go and actually make a product for sales leaders and cells organizations so that people can perform at their very best and they can go and and understand what are the activities in the skills that, if I focus on on a daily or weekly basis, will lead to me hitting quota. And so the whole idea is to go and take all your crm data and database will tie directly into any CRM and it will use advanced analytics to not only visualize the performance but it will also help call out areas for improvement and, if improved, what would be the gain and quota aim at for doing such, and so it's basic stuff, like any anything that any high performer person who wants to succeed is probably at some point another China reverse engineer their quota or trying to understand, hey, what am I good at? What do I need to work on? So they have a game plan and they have control over their destiny and database just does all that for you via technology. I love it. And how many employees, roughly, do you have nowadays? Yeah, so I joined last year in May. We had four. We're now at fourteen. So we are. We just did a seed round. We just closed about five months ago for three million at a forty million valuation. And Yeah, Dude, I for for the better part of the last two years I was at qual tricks. I took on a really hairy project, and maybe that's another part discussion, but is basically building a start up within qual tricks and it was really, really tough the first nine to twelve months, but afterward we ended up doing it incredibly well, and so I kind of got that itch to like, okay, can I go and test myself and can I go and actually build a company from the ground up? And so that's kind of that come, combined with already...

...being very personally invested in the methodology behind database and seeing it work firsthand and helping cells leaders perform really well, as kind of what drew meat a database. That was going to be my next question for people that are listening, that are at bigger companies and either considering going to a much smaller startup or I've already made that move. I'm curious how that transition was for you yet any learning curves, you know, early on to you know, just lack of systems and lack of resources and time and all those different things, like did you did you feel that pain or maybe not as much? Oh Yeah, I think that is probably the most consistent thing that anybody that will join US start up for the first several years will feel. And you know, there's challenges at every stage of business. When I was at call tricks, the challenges weren't access to resources, so to speak. It was more of control of the resources. There's maybe a product marketing team of fifteen, but there's also sells organization of a thousand. Yeah, and so there's a lot of competing asked for those resources, whereas in start up it's like, okay, who's going to do the recruiting? Well, I am, because we don't have a recruiting team. Who's going to manage the PNL in the finance as? Well, I am, because we don't have a finance division. And so you throw yourself into an environment where you got to be quick and agile and and learn things that you probably haven't had to learn before. But that was part of the allert of doing it for me, was I just wanted to be able to test myself and see, like, okay, I've done well in a hypergrowth company like qual tricks. You know, what am I really made of when I'm like left on my own, like what can I go and do? And so my wife thinks I'm sick for thinking that way. She's like things are going so great at Qualitis, we don't need to leave. But there's just something inside me where like I had that desire to go and really push myself and see kind of what I made of. I was talking to a friend about a similar topic sometime over the last few days and I compared it to like it's also nice to like lay in your bed and it's nice and warm and comfortable, but like the real way to make things happen is like to get out, you know, and like go out and start the day, even though it's cold outside and whatever. You know, and so I admire your willingness to keep kind of pushing yourself and your boundaries and you know, you never know what's going to be, what's going to come from it and what's going to be next by continuing to push your comfort zone. Yeah, I mean to use your analogy, like going from a later stage company like qual tricks to a start up, getting out of that that warm bed and taking a cold plunge with chewing on ice every single day. You're just going to be uncomfortable with with having to build out a company and go and hiring the right people and, you know, building the culture and all of that. You know it's all reliant on you, but that's also a pretty big positive. I think, like you also are in control, as much control as you probably ever will be, by by being kind of at the front and center of it, and so it comes with a ton of pressure and responsibility, but there's also a lot of upside to it. I want to hit you with some with some rapid fires as we're getting closer to the ending here, if that's cool with you. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, we talked about personal development. Were big learners here on this podcast. Curious if there's any books that you know you whether it was early in your sales career or now as a leader. They could be business focus, they could be a totally different genre, but it but any books, if you are a book reader, that have stood out to you in your career? So early, early on. Anything that was Brian Tracy, which might date me a little bit. Yeah, grant car down is probably a little bit more of like a modern day version of that. The basics for me where the seven habits of highly effective people. I read that in college. It was there's another one, del Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. That was just kind of like the basic inner workings of working with people. Those are pretty foundational for me. The Art of closing was another one early, early on, and then from there I kind of evolved more into at once I got into leadership, it was a lot of like leadership books, like okay, how do I go build a...

...culture of high accountability but also fun and where people succeed? Like I want to have branding of like if you come work for me, I'm going to bet on you and help you have the most success you've ever had in your career. And so trying to go and learn more of those things, and so that started to lead to you know, there's books out there by like Peter Drucker. I wouldn't. I'm always reading, and so I don't think there's any one book that kind of stands out as like, oh, that was the the most pivotal one, but I think there's just something about, you know, committing yourself to continue a learning and so I would say something I've really enjoyed the last year or so is listening to a podcast called Saster, and obviously the pavilion podcast as well. We kind of do. We got to do a plug there. But I would say I've really enjoyed saster as well because they interview a lot of business leaders who've gone through various stages of building a company and they just share kind of their experience and what's going on, kind of similar to what you're doing here as well. So I just like hearing people's stories and what they've gone through and you know how they've come out of it, what they've learned. Yeah, their stuff is great and Jason Lincoln's articles and tweets and everything have have helped me learn that world quite a bit and that I just realize that's a rapid fire question but a long answer. So that's how they usually go. Like I call it rapid fire, but it's usually like the longest segment of the whole podcast. So maybe I need to change the branding on that. So anything? I was going to ask you about podcast any anything else that you either listen to or if you tune into like newsletters or people on Linkedin you follow anything like that outside of like books or other kind of cheat sheets that you'd want a reference that have helped you out? A newsletter I really like is CBN sights. Okay. That's just kind of all things business. And then for startup frameworks, I really like Michael Scott's his content. I'm you can find a lot of it actually on Youtube. He's a kind of a serial entrepreneur who's turn to Harvard professor and he teaches a lot about how to establish go to market frameworks that kind of help with scale, especially for startups as well. So Michael Scott S K okay, he's got some good stuff as well. I've got some friends over at CEB in S. it's actually former podcast guest, so he'll be happy to hear that you like the newsletter. Yeah, yeah, been a longtime fan. What's going on in the nate Richard spotify or apple music or wherever you're listening to tunes like what's going on in the headphones. So I tried to listen to some things that are non sales or non business related as well. And recently I've never been a big runner anything, but I set a goal last year that within three years I wanted to run an ultra marathon, and so this is your two of this. And so I'm doing marathons this year. Last year I did some trail half marathon's, doing marathons this year and kind of preparation to do a fifty mile next year, and so I've been listening a lot to there's a podcast called eighty twenty durance and it just goes through kind of the the different training modalities and kind of the biology behind how to go and train for long distance running. So that's been kind of on repeat quite a bit in my car driving to and from. I'm also listening to a book right now called the cells acceleration formula, which is also really, really good. It kind of goes through the early stages of a company, what founders and kind of early leaders would experience and, you know, for good or bad ad, and then kind of had to go build a company that will that will last. So those are those are the two things on rep right now. Okay, I'd recommend. I'm also a runner in like endurance sports and all that, spart races and all that stuff. I'd recommend checking out rich role on is podcast. If you haven't heard of him. All Right, Oh, I have. Yeah, I listened to one a few months back. He interviewed Courtney Dwalter, who did the MOAB to hundred forty and like, I can't remember that. She did the Moab two hundred and forty mile race and like thirty eight hours or something. The next closest guy was ten hours away. So I I enjoyed that podcast. He's a great podcast. She's crazy wild. As a side note, I actually have a different podcast that I run and interviewed her... years ago after she was on Joe Rogan and she was saying the same thing. She was like hallucinating on the trail and just kept running and just insanity. But that's another story for another day. A quick plug for database. Are you guys hiring? If so, like what are some of the top what are roles that are top of mine? Of People are listening and like your story. Yeah, so we've got most of the functions hired out for now. I am always looking to connect. I think recruitings a long term game and so there's definitely going to be additional roles that we're looking to hire for in the future. The only two that I've got left for this month, this is the end of our physical quarter, as I need a pretty senior enterprise field sales rep to add to our sales team and then also kind of a mid to senior account executive, and so right around five to seven years of experience. So I am looking for those and then also we're looking for a customer support Rep as well. But other than that, we've done a pretty good job getting all our hiring done and we've got some great people at the company. But yeah, shameless plug. If you're interested to come join a great start up in Utah, the great team, great culture and a great market opportunity, database is a great place to be. If anyone listening is one of those people, with your linkedin be the best place to go? Or careers page or where would you send people? Yeah, just linked then. Yeah, I'm on there every single day in terms of recruiting, and so send me a message and I love to connect go. All right. Last question for you, nate. Who else should that's in your network or that you work with, should come on the pavilion podcast next? WHO's so? Definitely our founder, Dan Watkins. He was an employee at qualit tricks, I think employee, I always forget, the number eight somewhere around there, and he was he was pretty instrumental and building it to what it became. I would say David Bywater is just a super well rounded leader. I rubbed shoulders with him a little bit when I was at Vivn. He went on to be, I believe, the president of vivent solar and then he's come back to Vivn, which is a different company does all the home automation. I believe they're CEO now. David by water would also be great. Who Else? Those two guys? Definitely. There's also another guy named John Di Augustino who I've worked with. He was our VP of enterprise cells at qual tricks and he's just a he's retired now but overall great guy with tons of wisdom. He's I think he started his seals the career doing printer selling or something old school like that and just kind of worked his way all the way up through Sass and so, yeah, those three guys would be a great time to have on today. Did they ask for referrals at the end of the home security? Because that was the CUCO bread and butter and I just got you on three right there. You know why it's I feel like BTC cells is all about that, name dropping, you know, asking further referrals? Yeah, absolutely, the more you could talk to someone in knew somebody else that hire, the chance would be sell that. So that's awesome. Well, may I appreciate you coming on man. I loved hearing your story. Wishing you guys nothing but good things in two thousand and twenty two. For everyone else, will be back next week with another episode, but definitely check out nate on Linkedin. Hit him up if you have questions or want to connect. So thanks nate. Thanks Tim. I loved it all right. Thanks for checking out that episode again. This podcast was brought to you by show pad. This is, thank God it's Monday, by pavilion. I'm your host, Tom Alamo. Hit me up on Linkedin. Tom Alamo on Linkedin up post every single day about sales and podcast stuff untill next week. Yet after it and we'll see you next Monday. Peaks.

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