The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

Ep 172: Brand Storyteller w/ Mark Jung

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Ep 172: Brand Storyteller w/ Mark Jung

Part of the TGIM (Thank God It's Monday!) series hosted by Tom Alaimo.

Alright, everybody! Welcome back to the Pavilion podcast. Thank God it's monday. I'm your host Tom a lame o this is the show where revenue leaders come to learn the tips, the tricks and tactics that they need to be successful in that Rolls today. I've got a great episode. I am interviewing Mark Young. Mark is the VP of marketing over at Dooley. I'm sure you heard of them. I'm sure you've seen them all over linkedin. He has helped to create one of the best, most notable, most well recognized, most creative brands in the SAAS world and in the definitely in the sales SaAS world and he's Just done an incredible job building out the team there. So, I've got, I've known mark for a few years. We go way back and wanted to pick his brain on what they've been up to this year and what's heading into 2022. So I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Break out the note pad. You'll definitely learn a lot from Mark, as I always do without further ado, let's get straight into that conversation with Mark. This episode of the Pavilion podcast is brought to you by Sandoz. So, Sandoz, so the leading sending platform is the most effective way for revenue generating teams to stand out with new ways to engage at strategic points throughout the customer journey by connecting digital and physical strategies companies can engage acquire and retain customers easier than ever before. Now, let's get into the show. All right, Mark, happy afternoon or Good afternoon! Welcome to Pavilion podcasts. How are you, man doing what I'm doing. Well, thanks so much for having me on tom and happy afternoon to you too. Good sir. It's literally the first time I've ever said that. So I don't know if we'll keep that in or what, but Mark you coming to us from british Columbia or where are you right now? Yeah, out in beautiful Vancouver. It's that time of year where it is the same shade of gray every day, but no snow and living the dream on the west coast or here. Nice. I love it. I love it. There's so much that I want to get into. I think you know, hearing from you is something that anyone that's running marketing or in marketing at, you know, high growth startup. You know, you're someone that they want to hear from and so you and the team that do have just come together with so many different great creative ideas and like I just see your name everywhere I've linked in and you're doing crazy stuff that you just don't normally associate with B two B brands. So I'd love to to get into a lot of that with you today. But maybe we could just start, I know you were employee, I think either seven or 17 at julie. And so I'd love for you to just talk about like the journey that the business has been on the last few years and kind of like what your philosophy at a high level has been for the marketing there. Yeah, for sure. So I had the marketing actually, I joined actually two years ago, so it's my two year anniversary joined as you know, employee seven when we were a sub 10 people. And in the last two years really the company has seen tremendous growth in the last nine months alone. We've raised over $105 million dollars going all the way from initial seed round the second seed to a series A and series B. And really a lot of that growth has been based on some really start smart strategic bets that have been made with the product and our space and a lot of what we're doing with the brand and really that comes down to chris our ceo and our founder and Justin are co founder had a belief that they wanted to really change the shape of what it meant to be a sales first company, you know, a lot of lot of tech in the sales space is so top down as in some platform is sold to a zero or a VP of sales, but you know, the actual seller of the account, executives on the ground using it wouldn't necessarily job of the product of the brand or what was going on and it kind of leads to a disconnect where you can turn or you know, it isn't...

...really picked up and loved and they have empowered us from day one and myself from the marketing perspective when I used to be just a marketing head count of one to build something that truly was by sales and four sales and they gave me a lot of creative room to take risks and bring the best of what you see and B to C to B to be in a way that I think gave us a lot of creative freedom in some of the ways that we brought campaigns to market and ideas, which is probably some of the things we're talking about from what we do with sales, humor and hot sauce, live streams on linkedin and you know, some of the ways that we bring campaigns to market but happen to unpack specifics there, but it's been a wild ride. I have learned so much over the last two years and It's essentially like living in a different form of gravity where you learn at like a 5-6 x faster rate at this startup pace than you would otherwise and I wouldn't trade it for the world. That's great for the people that are looking to join or aspired to join or just starting that process of joining an early stage startup. How much of the conversations did you have about your autonomy in the interview process or while you were vetting because you hear all the time, you know, horror stories of marketer comes in and then the Ceo or founders just don't get it, quote unquote, they don't get marketing or they don't open up the purse strings. They don't let you get creative or whatever it might be. And that's really probably one of the worst places for marketers to be if they want to really be creative and expand the footprint. So how did you handle vetting and and talking through that before signing on? Yeah. So I'm a big believer in choosing the right leadership at your business. I think that's the number one bet that you need to be making and there's a few different types of Ceos right there. Those that know they don't get marketing and that they need an expert to come in and they tend to kind of trust the discretion of the leadership that you bring on from the marketing ones, right? There will be those that maybe don't get marketing but have opinions on what it should be, which can be a dangerous combination, especially if it's more marketing is looked at as a cost center rather than investment in building a brand and how that can become a moat and a sustainable advantage. And you know, then you get the kind of the one in between which is more neutral. So in this case again, chris our Ceo just co founder both really got marketing. They understood what it took to build a category and when I actually came on a dually, we did a one week growth sprint together where I came on, I met the team and we ran an entire project together over the course of five days to get a sense of not only how we'd work, but how our ideas came together really like a structured Sprint style project and that gave me a sense of what it was like to work with chris and the rest of the team. So even if you don't have the ability to run something for that long, I think it's really important for candidates in the current market too. In the same way that we interview a cap table, we ask our investors that were potentially coming on to do what their superpowers are and what they would bring to the table and we think about how we would work together. I think that's really important for you as a marketing leader to get alignment with your Ceo on that approach because again, that's probably the one thing that you can't change as much as you can, you can educate someone you need to ensure that the leadership that is at the company that you're going to be building your future on has the same foundational principles and pillars as you. Otherwise, you could end up being a spot where they're asking you to show our why and our brand initiative that you really shouldn't be trying to measure attribution against right? Not everything is intended to be dimension and that can put you in a tricky spot where you feel frustrated as a leader. I'm just lucky that you know, chris and Justin is so great here, do we? Yeah, so you have the idea or you collectively have the idea, hey, let's start with the I. E. In mind the individual contributor and be their favorite sales brand. Maybe you'd phrase it differently, but where do you go from there? Do you the interview a s and try to understand what's going on?...

Do you kind of get a navigation of what's going on in the rest of the sales tech market? Like what happens in and how do you like use that as a jumping off point to say, all right now we're going to start, you know, kind of creating like what the game plan is going to be. Yeah, so I'm a big believer in really a shift that's happened and been accelerated the last year, which is as you know, the pandemic hit and everyone moved remote. It led to a lot of the impersonal strategies having to become virtual, right? And because of that, in what I call the sea of sass everything blended together. Everyone was trying to run the exact same playbook, doing the exact same things. And it led to something that was very much homogenous and hard to stand out and I'm a huge, huge, huge believer in creativity as like the one edge that you have to differentiate from others and that you really don't have to be running the same serious decisions. Playbook that 37,000 other companies are running. So what I did and what I would highly recommend any market coming into new york is a huge fan of Joanna. We but copy hackers. She has a really simple framework in a G sheet that lets you understand your customers within kind of the first few days of coming into the business. And it's just a simple framework of listening to customer calls and running live customer calls as they're going through a demo experience or something about the product of the problem and walking through what they said in what order You flag documentary moments and then you have this clear linear progression across your personas about what was mentioned. And usually after about 5-7 calls, you start to identify trends. So the first thing that I did actually within the first two days was I listened to 30 customer calls and then I booked an additional 20 customer calls. So I had 50 customer calls that I happened to do that. First week from there I started isolating key trends, you know, like where we are winning what people are looking for, what those objections were. And then I went to spark toro. So a huge fan of rand Fishkin is tool. It allows you to get a sense of where your personas live, how you can find them and where they're most engaged and then I'm a big believer in the value prop canvas from strategizing strategizing with his head. So it started to map really a high level sense of what a product marketer would do personas and what some of the social and emotional pain points that our audience were living. And then with that started to craft like a very rough canvas of a sense of okay, how can we win the hearts and minds of in this case, you know, account executives and sales leaders, How do I make sure that the dui brand shows up, not only during the day when there are linked in, but at 9 30 at night when they're on instagram or at six a.m. On their favorite podcast or you know those moments where it's not about driving them to the next step, is making sure that the duly brand is integrated in their life in such a way that they get that our brand is meant to be by sales and four sales and we get where you live and how you are and we know that and that's why we show up there so happy to unpack you know, way more around some of the tactics in the early days. But process is your friend, you know, trying to get as close to the customer and really at the end of the day, your best copyrighting the best messaging is going to be taking the voice of your customer mapping into relevant themes, you know, a little bit of copyrighting work on top of that, you know, get some key hooks, but that's all you really need to start scaling a new business and see where you can drive demand. I love it. And I love the mention of some of those tools that folks can check out if they're not using them already. I do want to get to some of the tactics. The first one that comes to mind that you were running as part of like maybe the early Covid playbook. I don't know exactly when it started was the hot ones. Hot wing, Like virtual kind of like fire talks. Okay. The B two B version of hot ones, I guess. So is that as simple as like you seeing that on Youtube be like, oh, we should do that for salespeople are, how did that come to be? Yeah. So this was actually a really interesting part of our journey of doing. It comes back to, you know, our origin story when I joined julie, we were raising our next round and we were, you know, on the path of doing another seed round on the path to series A and we were in kind of final stage terms with a VC firm and...

...then the pandemic hit and this was coming up on, you know, like my 90 day marks was rolling out kind of my post 90 day plan getting ready for hiring, where we're going to allocate budget, you know, kind of like final stages the hopper. And then that VC firm essentially pulled all their investments at that point. And we were at a spot where you know, we had a few months of runway left but you know, we were prepping a raise as part of growing the business. And it led to a really interesting spot where I'm a marketer of one and I was essentially then told, okay, you have no budget. You need to get creative and figure out ways that we can build dr demand, continued growth and also what continue to grow the brand within the VC space as we try to raise during really unprecedented times. Right? And it led us to really scoping down what are opportunities were, you know, we couldn't invest in long form content or things like S E. O. Because the ramp time was too long. We didn't have budget to invest if we in content and compete with, you know, the Pavilion podcasts or other forms like that. And we had to focus on where can we drive impact and where can we reach potentially millions of sales leaders and you know, build a massive brand and that led us to really social organic social and things that we could create and control and have potentially a quick impact higher reach and potentially low cost. So with that I started doing some analysis within the first week of like what the opportunities were in the space. I had never been in sales tax before had come from management consulting background and again, sales was a new space for me and as part of those 30 customer interviews and eventually 20 live ones, one of the key themes that stood out when we were interviewing sales leaders was that sales was a very stressful job and then they needed a form of an outlet to decompress and kind of relax and essentially like a level set. And I noticed that there was this really interesting niche of a sales humor ecosystem and always kind of fun, creative ways that, you know, sales leaders and actual sellers reps, we're going to decompress and have some fun and I was like, okay, there was definitely a niche play that we could take that's bringing the best of Btc into the B two B world and you know, at the time chris, our ceo had been a huge fan of hot ones and was like, let's let's do this thing. So fast forward to a few months later, we did over a million impressions on linkedin live through the show. We had about 200 companies signed on with everyone from, you know, the, the CMO agong Sanguine Badreya, the founder over a terminus. We've had, you know, Justin, welch, you name it, you know, most of the sales videos you would know, scotty's a marvelous and it all started with creativity and this need to build something from nothing and I remember just the first episode, I had $50 in hot sauce on amazon and just me writing cold emails to people trying to convince someone that they knew nothing about To take a chance and come do something. And I had pitched Daniel Disney who runs the daily sales linkedin audience is about, you know, at the time about 600,000. And I said, Hey, would you want to host this show for us and will help create content that's going to help you grow the channel and you know, potentially have a partnership where you help to share content and we'll give you a rev share of whatever new revenue that comes to do with you. And you know, within a few quick weeks we had hot concept, we had great speakers, we had a distribution engine and it became kind of a viral hit that now we have our own hot sauce lineup, we got season two kicking off and it's gonna be a big splash coming into early 2022. So make sure to check it out. More information to come, How do I get myself on that 2022 list. I was, we were in the talks of me doing it with Richard Harris and that fell through. So I gotta get myself on that line up. We had, that was the problem. We had, I was one person and we had so much demand, I have a backlog of, I think it's 270 people now and like some hundreds and hundreds of companies that were kind of framing the show into two tracks. We're going to have more of like a 1 to 1 podcast style and then we have the larger group sessions like...

...we're running, we used to call them the gone, it's like the one we ran with, you know, gong recently before we wrapped up season one. That's awesome. Well stay tuned for that for, for 2022, so throughout and that's a super interesting story also of just how the, you know, with the funding and with COVID and like you had to make something happen with a small amount of money and just yourself and and make it happen? I think social is a great channel to do that. I've also seen, you know, a lot of like social virology come from, you know, things like the music videos that you guys have put together, you have other people on your team that have become kind of like social influencers, like, you know, Camille and Zoe for example, and Ryan on the sales team. So like, I guess we're, my curiosity is, is when an idea comes across your desk, like a music video or something like that, what's your criteria for saying yes or no, Like how many of how many crazy ideas do you shoot down with every music video or every hot ones idea that comes across. Yeah. So the number one criteria is balancing what percentage you're focusing on building a brand versus dimension. You know, typically most companies have some type of 80, 20, split 80% being dimension, the remainder being brand. And depending on where you are in terms of your growth phase and how much you need to do to start building up your category, you're white space. You know, those percentages can shift. But for us it's pretty simple. Well what we are doing, generate demand for the business will lead to account executives and sales team signing up for Dooley will lead to qualified opportunities and meetings with sales managers, VPs of sales. And if the answer is yes and we can execute it quickly and efficiently, you know, as part of a pilot, then we typically run these things. We track learnings, we use a two week growth sprint cycle to evaluate. Hey, it took us, you know, one day to prep a music video, we wrote the lyrics, we both the content, We planned it out on social and you know, one of the fun ones that we did with Ryan early days was to um, it was a riff on a millionaire And it booked 25 meetings with opportunities from that one video. Right? And that helped us set a baseline of, okay, even if the account that you're going for right, you know, maybe doesn't take that meeting what is going to be the reach and the exposure for other potential opportunities that come from that. And can we take that motion and scale it up as part of an account based marketing initiative. Right? So that's the way that we look at it. I mean there are definitely many, many items that have been sunset and not approved by me. What you see, what you see in the market is well curated and backed into KPI. So you definitely don't want to be the marketing team that just doing wild things for the sake of doing wild things. They need to make sure that they're driving business impact and helping you build something that's going to again lead to the next milestone now. How big is the team nowadays? Your team? My team right now is total of eight including myself. So again, we went from, you know, being sub 10 to being almost sixties in the last eight months or so. And you know, we're on track to continue growing potentially hit triple digits early next year. And it has really shifted the way that I have been focusing, you know, my attention right going from an individual marketing leader and team of one to having kind of a large team. So it's forced me to evolve a lot and really level up and start to think about how I can transition to that CMO role. And it's been, it's been a journey. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that because I'd love to hear how you know your your day to day looks different right now than it did two years ago, I'm sure even a year ago so I'd love to hear like how you are evolving as a leader right to probably have that more strategic lens and working on delegating and hiring the right people that maybe fill in for areas that you're not as strong or aren't your superpower, so to speak.

Like walk me through a little bit about like how you made your first few hires and just how you kind of like uplevel yourself in those areas. Yeah, so the biggest philosophy that I have around hiring is I try not to hire unless there is an extreme demand that I already have built up for that role. So if I'm making a strategic bet on something I want to ensure that I know for the most part that there will be impact that that role can drive. Obviously in some cases you need to make in a battle without data. So I was looking for a few things and hires one, I was looking for hires that would match our culture and our spirit at dewey which was trying to do something different and to I really like challenge what B2B is meant to be in terms of what you see in content and a brand and I really wanted to find people who understood our early go to market motion which was social first. So when I started having conversations with Camille, I had a content and early focus on the team. I was looking for people who understood what I would call the new age of marketing. As in we do not live in a world in which you just create e books and put them behind a download gate and hit a lead goal. You want people who understand that sales and marketing should be tightly working together against one number, Driving qualified pipeline and close one revenue. And the marketing's job at the end of the day is to make sales easier and to be able to walk that path forward in a way that content is not being created for the sake of content is being created for the sake of building your brand, establishing a category and helped to drive qualified opportunities. So that was really what I was looking for is someone who was scrappy a builder able to be social. First understood, you know, the space we're playing with him was willing to take creative risks and had done that before. And that was really the criteria that we used across the board where, for example, my first hire was a producer and Showrunner because Fire talks became such a success that we needed to bring someone on board to just run and operate that show. Then we brought on our head of content. We saw a massive opportunity and community and partnerships. Brown and Zoe to head that up in our team as we started to grow our email list through all the events and the people participating in our content. There was a need to have a lifecycle marketer who could own our messaging and start to do customer calms map of the journey. And then we started to build out our demand gen functions. We brought on our head of growth, Michael McEwen from Gong, who came to us and started to build up the growth team with an engineer as well, helping us a lot of the technical work and our data side. So we started to get our ducks in a row across the business and my day to day went from being the sole person who was strategizing, executing, reporting and being the hands on the ground with the sales team of making things happen To, you know, skip level conversations every two weeks with a team of eight people and building budgets and working with my CFO and the board and trying to think about our vision in 36 months and what that future looks like. So it's really been an interesting path for me and I came from a background, being like a fractional CMO running an agency before. So used to doing this, but at this scale of like a permanent full time team has been a fun one that's been a little bit different than the model. I'm used to. So excited to keep learning and you know, Pavilion is a big part of how I've been able to level that up and you know, not drop the ball too bad for the team if they're listening to this, What's been the most challenging part of kind of like reaching this new growth level for you personally, I would say transitioning initiatives that were something that I stood up from ground zero because you have a vision for them right in be able to pass that that over in a way where you pause and wanted to jump in because you're excited, you know, you see something that's going on the team, you're like, oh man, I really want to get deeply involved in that, I'm so excited that I have to pause and say I need to focus on where I can drive the most impact right now and as much as I...

...would love to get involved in this initiative because I can see, you know, so many markets for early success, I need to focus on coaching and handing that over and really more strategic oversight and being able to ensure that I reflect on the mentality that I need to have as a leader now and direct effort towards the big picture, not just the stuff that, you know, I like to do because it's fun with like the old taste. Yeah, you mentioned Pavilion being a, you know, a helpful resource for you and we talked a little bit before the show about you know, you feel like you've used the community you know successfully and kind of like strategically help you up level and find mentors and learn more about marketing and your roles and everything like that. So I'd love for you to just expand on that a little bit for how you've leveraged the platform and how it's helped you little story time here picture you know Mark two years ago he's got 297 connections on linkedin because linkedin was not the platform that I used to use to drive business again, I came from the management consulting space, you know, working a lot with C H R O S and big banks and for the most part it was different communities I hadn't really invested in like then which was one of the probably the most prominent channels for the sales community. More importantly, I had never worked in SAss right? I came from a background that was agency and management consulting and do, it was my my first play in SAS so coming in pretty blind had consulted for startups before but mostly in Fin tech and media and other more like Btc and kind of like just completely different. Right? So I need to find ways that I can really accelerate my learning surround myself with smart people and also just have a bunch of advisers on demand that can help point me in the right direction in the moment because just like the latency of having a, you know, five, their response on a decision you need to make in the moment. Speed is critical to success at the start up phase. So Pavilion, you know, I joined prior to even back when it was the revenue collective before there was even a Vancouver chapter. And I remember one of the first things that I did that was and steal this playbook, steal this playbook please. It was probably the one thing that really, really helped me not only accelerate my learnings, but build up a network that's helped me in 10 months go from 297 connections to, you know, almost 10,000 was this one thing. So every morning I would time block about 2025 minutes friday morning at six a.m. To go into Pavilion and go into the general introduction channel. I would look at all the net new members that have joined and I had used a text expander in chrome that allowed me to write out a few kind of like pre built templates for connection request that I would send on linkedin and they had three different tiers. One was kind of just a general at R. C. When it was the revenue collective. Just said, Hey, great to meet you. You know, also part looking forward to chatting and slack. So just like a basic one that I would use if I came up with someone who maybe I didn't want to meet and it was just a connection, good to have. The second one that I had was more just like a general at RC meat and it was just, hey, if I saw someone that seemed interesting that you know, wanted to have like a virtual coffee and kind of unpacked one key thing that they had mentioned as their superpower. I tried to do this early days and it was successful and I had probably 80% acceptance rate in virtual coffees with senior marketing leaders and cmos. And then I took it one step further, which really kind of leveled things up and I started to break down probably the most 10 common cities of where really like marquis talent, we're introducing themselves from London, new york san Francisco Seattle and so forth. And I would write these personalized snippet connection requests based on that city. So for example like writing some in september when I was going to new york later that month and it was like, hey, you know, my wife and I'm going to be in new york, I really miss Carbone, my favorite restaurant, I saw you mentioned that you are an expert at standing up referral programs and building affiliate models. You know, I would love to have a virtual coffee and chat about that. And I built these out for kind of all the major cities that allowed me to do, you know...

...personalization where I could put in kind of that one sentence and really operate efficiently. And I was able to convert public 95% of those two meetings, which for the most part turned into ongoing relationships and new mentors who I would say, hey, you're an expert at X. I would love to learn about X. How would you feel if I reported back to you in 30 days about me implementing your advice, I'm going to roll through and implement one through five and get some feedback and a pulse check with you about how that's going and see if you're willing to kind of fall through and help me run this program and through Pavilion them through doing that. I was able to build a bench of dozens and dozens of great cmos where I was able to get their phone number to text them, send them a message on WhatsApp, send them a quick note and each of them had a very specific element that they were coaching me on that led me to have, you know, like this, this great bench of advisors that I never would have had access to. And not only did it turn into something that helped me early days I do it to form strategy, but it also led to just a great network of people who helped me source talent, you know, helped advise other people within our business. And you know, it's really helped me build up my network to what it is today from basically zero In less than a year. So that's kind of just like the one very specific tactic I would recommend folks to do. And what really surprised me is most sales and marketing leaders that I chatted with said that less than 2% of people actually sent them personalized connections or relevant asks when they joined and I think I missed opportunity for those that you'll get out of Pavilion, what you put in and I'm definitely a big fan and you know, that's why I head up the Vancouver chapter now is the executive lead here is because I see the power of it. I'm a big believer and you know, here to kind of double down and hopefully give back to the folks that were in my spot now to help them accelerate their path forward. Amazing. That's just such a money playbook. How many of those calls do you think you were taken in a given week? Uh, somewhere between Probably 2-4 in the early days and then closer to, I started limiting them 1-2 and then eventually one and then as I built up a bench, it was more just fall calls that I would do a sink where I might send them, you know, a loom video with some details, some questions and then they might send me back a voice note or some text or a quick email and then sometimes we just jump on the phone and have a quick call while they were walking the dog or making dinner or whatever because you know make your schedule aligned to them. But you know, a lot of those became great opportunities, even, you know, not selling customer testimonials, just so many, so many amazing things happen from and it's just like great friendships, right? Like there's so many people now that I'm still texting and texting with three free right now that I met over a year ago and we're talking about thanksgiving and food and family and you know, there's, I'm just, I'm grateful for pavilion and what has helped me do for my career. So I love it. This is not a pitch, but hey, if you're not joined yet, here you go. Yeah, I did not pay me to sit, but I'm just big fans sam Jacobs, you know, great leader, big fan of what they're doing and happy, happy member and here for the long run. I love it. I want to hit you with a few rapid fires before we take off for the afternoon. So this is not a usual rapid fire, we're going to start here. You said you did that every friday at six a.m. What's the mark? What? Like what's the, what's the alarm clock, wake up time really. It depends and it depends on how late I was operating my schedule has shifted a lot. But I find the time between 5 to 8 a.m. To be the best focus time where I don't look at my phone, I don't look at slack, I don't do anything. I go and I use my five minute journal. I read about the priorities for that day, what I need to achieve and then I focus on like really how I make that happen, what do I need to break out? What are the dependencies who do I need to talk to? You know what we always need to get in motion and then usually like 8 to 9 a.m. For me is catching up on anything that might be blocking the team, you...

...know, getting ready and then usually jumping into, you know, the course of the day from there and then usually by the end of the day closer like six p.m. I'd be prepping my next steps for the next day calendar. And then, you know, in the startup world, usually like 6 to 10 might still be, you know, me rallying projects are getting things going, especially in the early days, so less so now when I have, you know more of a team, but it's very pretty wild way. Yeah, I hear you. I can relate. All right, we're big learners on this podcast, curious if there's any books that have been impactful for your career, your life, they could be marketing specific or business. So there could be a totally different genre if that's how you roll, But anything come to mind? Yeah, I talked to when, by Daniel Pink, amazing, really shifted the way that I built my schedule quick version. There are certain times of the day that are best for certain types of activities, plan your day accordingly. Not based on when you're open, but based on when you're going to be the most productive at, you know, creative versus admin versus collaboration. 2nd 1, not within the business sense, it's called the comfort crisis and essentially it looks at how in our comfortable, you know, modern lives, what non problems can become problems and a good way to help rebalance that equation is to take on these Extremely hard tasks at least a few times per year where you're not going to die, but you probably have a 50% chance of failing. So the author takes a journey through his time in the arctic hunting Caribou and how he needed to consume 5000 calories a day for you know, a few months and it was pretty wild, but some really great science of how the top folks working with like an NBA athletes are doing this to help level set for getting your mindset right? Yeah, those two are probably the most recent that I've been reading um you know, lots more on the kind of the marketing and business side, but I would say for sure those are my favorite, I love it. What is bumping in your Spotify or apple music or wherever you, you play your tunes, what's bumping in the head phones nowadays? Oh man, I would say the new Adele album, the new Adele album was was pretty good. And our designer Aaron, he got me, he got me cranking on that, but it's 2022 planning. So for me, it's mostly just, you know, some Armin Van Buren from getting in the zone, you know, a lot of trance and house music, just like some non lyric, like uplifting. Oh, it's been five hours of planning, like I'm still good in them in the zone. Yeah, okay, I like it, I like it outside of obviously, you know, this show, what else or what else do you tune into from like a podcast perspective or people that you like to follow on linkedin or instagram or otherwise that you learned from any shows or people that you call out? Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, always been a huge fan of David Gearhart at drift, you know, chris walker and the team that refined labs, you know, some of my friends have recently moved over there, definitely some of my, my favorite and then Nick Bennett over at Alice, big fan of Nick's podcast and what he's been doing and then, you know, Camille on my team was always a fan of her content over at market or higher and what she's continued to do and then I would say probably the folks over at metadata are doing a really good job, you know, shout out to Mark then, really helpful with the team. Yeah, those are probably my my top five. Cool, I love it. Last one for you is who that you know of in or outside of the pavilion community should come on this podcast. Oh, interesting. I think I've made a lot of recommendations to folks to come on. So I would say most of the people that I would think of top of mind right now have been on, let's see here, I would say to people that would lead to great conversations for you Lloyd, bobo over at boast ai Lloyd is amazing and he is truly hyper connector and great strategic mindset. If you haven't had Patrick Campbell on Pc over a profit. Well again, got to hang out with him in san Francisco recently in the fall Love Pc while what he's doing from a marketing perspective from how he's both the brand and really how he...

...approaches category creation and building a media arm within SaAS businesses. I think he's setting the tone, you know, in the same way that you know, tier one brands like hubspot are in terms of building a media empire and then three um Margaret Minsky, she's the chief strategy officer over an unbalanced, highly recommend that you have her on, she has really been, you know, one of the pinnacles for driving growth there recently led some acquisitions and really one of the people that I've learned the most about product marketing and growth marketing was one of the first that introduced me to reforge and brian ball for if you're able to bring on brian Balfour of reforge, love brian is one of my all time favorite growth leaders. So those would be a few off the cuff that I would say. I would absolutely tune into those episodes. I love it. I love it. We got four out of 10 people who got four referrals right there and mark anything we get, we didn't get to about brand building about the early days of dually anything that is top of mind that I missed the mark on here. No, I mean I think we covered, we covered a lot of it. There's, there's so much more to unpack, but if I was to leave with with one message and people will remember just one thing. It's, you can't be all things to everyone. And I think most marketers can get played by this death now of trying to be loved by everyone. But what they end up being is just kind of this, what I call the really medium gray chicken dish you get at weddings right? It's like a safe dish that appeals to everyone and people choose it that way, but it's not memorable and if you take that stance with your brand and how you're building, you're going to get thousands of people that kind of like you or know you, but rather you should focus on really building a raving fan of people who love you in a smaller cohort that will drive virology and advocacy and to help you build something that you really just can't do when you're trying to thread the line through the middle and be all things, so create focus, be very clear about what you do and don't do and we need to creativity above all else as you know, one of your strategic levels and differentiators, you know, I mean if you want to talk about something recent, you know, doing right now is the number one and has been now for, you know, back to back quarters throughout this entire year, we're the number one momentum leader in all the categories that we exist in our G two, sales, enablement sales engagement, sales, performance management, and what most companies do when they do a launch campaign for G two is like, oh look at our badges, look how great we did. Whereas us that do, we back into something that's more fun that's gonna relate to sales. So the last quarter we did a play on G. Q magazine and we did GQ magazine covers and called it G two and then the last one we just did a few weeks ago was we did a play on Star Wars, so we had R two G two and we had this whole Star Wars posters and videos and fun. And founder of G to send me a connection request in the DM on linkedin saying, You know, it got his attention and the entire kind of rev team over at G2 and G two folks, if you're listening, make sure that you get more sign ups and Julie were growing that account right now and you know, would love to get some more of you in there. So creativity is your key. We got the last minute sales pitch in there. I like it. I like it. You're on, you're on notice G2, that's great mark. This is a blast. Where's the best place for people to reach out to you if they want to connect, they want to learn more about you or duly what's the best spot for that? Yeah, best place shoot me a connection on linkedin. Mark P Young P is in there so that I can always, you know, separate those autonation's but definitely shoot me a connect and check us out duly dot ai dee 00 L Y dot ai. And if you want to take a look at fire talks. We've got all the past episodes living in there so you can watch, you know, everyone from morgan ingram to aim Ive always, you know who'd gone, you know, embrace some of the world's hottest hot sauce is where you learn about assassin tech and yeah, rope rescue tom This was a fun one. And looking forward to the next one, appreciate it, Mark. All right. Thanks for checking out that episode again. This was brought to you by Sandoz. So they deliver modern direct mail, personalized gifts and...

...other physical impressions that make your outreach more personal. I'll be back next monday with another episode until then hit me up on linkedin and get after it. Peace. See some say something. Mhm.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (262)