The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

Bonus Episode: 1x1 Conversation with Manny Medina, CEO of Outreach.io

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Bonus Episode: 1x1 Conversation with Manny Medina, CEO of Outreach.io

Book. Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome back to another bonus episode of the Revenue Collective podcast. Today we're going to be listening to an interview that we did with Manny Medina, the CEO of outreach. Man He's always an incredible guest because he tells it like it is. He brings a lot of authenticity in addition to leadership and vision, and that's part of the reason why outreach has has been so successful and why they've grown so quickly. So it's a really good conversation. He talks about working from home, he talks about how outreach is responding to the crisis. He talks about the transition from field sales to remote sales, not necessarily inside sales, although everybody has become an inside sales person into some extent to some a capacity. So it's a really interesting conversation and we're always grateful for the support that outreach shows revenue collective and we're excited to bring it to you. This all happened on Wednesday, may thirteen from the REV neglective may virtual offsite. This is the second of the interviews that will be featuring and we'll be bringing more content to light the first was with a meet bend off, CEO of Gong, and this is with Manny Medina, the see of outreach. Now, of course, before we get there, we want to thank Gong, the sponsor of the revenue collective podcast. Gong is the number one revenue intelligence platform for remote sales and recently Gong and revenue collective our thrill to announce a strategic partnership in which will be bringing you the best events, content, research and spaces to engage with your peers. To kick it off, their sponsoring this podcast, the revene collect to podcast. The Laws to be bringing you new stuff every month, so don't miss out. Stay up to date on the latest collaborations at Gong Dot io, forward slash RC. Good afternoon everyone, welcome back. We are super incredibly excited, use all the superlatives, to have one of the leading CEOS at high growth companies in the world and also a great friend and partner of revenue collective. Many Medina, with us for the next thirty to forty five minutes to talk about what's been happening. Now, for folks, if this is your if this is day one for you, even though it's day two of our virtual offsite make yourselves familiar with everything that's going on. There's a networking tab on the left side of your screen which you can go to meet people one on one. There's an ex boke which you can go to visit booths, including outreaches booth, and and then, of course, this is the main stage where where everything will be happening. We're just going to be going from twelve noon eastern to four PM Eastern today and and we're incredibly excited for this session. So first let's just get started. If you have questions, feel free to drop them into the chat box on the right side of your screen. We will get to them. We want this to be interactive, but manny, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the revenue collective off site. Thank you. Now what an incredible event that in time to be had. So I discovers is got to be good. There's a lot of cover here. The sure is. So. First of all, before we talk about chapter two and how you're managing the crisis, I do want to give you an opportunity to talk about some of the really great things that have been happening in outreach. They're probably one or two people out there that don't know what outreaches. Give us, you know, the one liner and then talk about some of the recent product announcements that you've made, particularly around the use of artificial intelligence, because I was particularly excited about it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, so I reaches is is a Celtic engaging platform and we're the number one celsing engaging platform in the in the industry right now, and what we do is we allow your sellers to have a place where they can manage older activities. So if you need to email somebody, you need to follow up and then follow up with a package, etc. There's a one place for the cellar can take all the actions and it could be a count base or persona base or leap base, and you can reprioritize based on what's hot and what's working, so that you have a single pin of glass for the rats to perform all the actions to drive bibling and then crows up pipeline. The outcome of deploying something like our reach, or any cells engaging platform that matter, is an immediate increase the meetings book and then an opportunity creation. So your funnel per rep immediately grows, which gives you more productive for rep over time and we having working because we...

...have a closed loop system in which we can see the action in the outcome of that action at all times. meaning if we see an email or call generates a meeting and that meaning generates an opportunity, we can start tying and making the machine learning what's optimal and what's not, and that allows us to drive even more actions. So one of the things that we release recently is ability to plug in into your zoom and eventually do your Web's and do your Microsoft themes. A companion and what an assistant that we call Kaya, and Kaya is a real time transcription engine that also does a real time understanding and assistance, meaning by knowing what you're saying and what your customer saying in a conversation, it allows you to surface cards that have answered for questions such as, you know, what is surprising? What is a packaging? Do you integrate to x y? ORC thinks that your sellers will not remember on the fly and you don't want them to look it up because they will lose that moment, they will lose that attention to the details that's happening in the moment. Amazing. So you want Kaya to give it to them. And then the second thing it does is that allows them to you stake actions for you. So we agree that we're going to meet in a week or we're going to agree we're going to follow up with your boss or cure men or a tea, and it creates sort of like a list of actualitis and then you can follow up on automatically and it does it for you so that you don't have to remember to take notes and take those particular times. Those are the two high highly commed pieces of Kaya. That is both an enable mental that is real time, but it's also a real time assistant to help you be your best self. How the sounds like a tremendous this sounds like a lot of work. Talks about the investment that went into building this product in this team, and just talk about, you know, the work that was required, because it sounds like a lot. Yeah, at that. The loan stories is were here and all is that. You know, about a year and a half ago I was walking with one of my very early more members and we're thinking, you know, I think everybody's thinking about role, about voice wrong, including ourselves. I don't think we're thinking about voice right, and a void. This is, I think, being in the voice channel, either either a phone call or a meeting or a video chat, etcetera. I send incredible opportunity to serve the red with more information so that the red can be more present. And I don't know if you heard this, there is there's three levels of listening. There's listening to answer, there's listening to understand and there is listening for what is not there. There's listening for, like the tone of voice and the feelings in the moods and the real connection. And we want to get every red to level three. But you can't do that if you're looking shit up in the middle of a conversation, right, if you have to remember, like what's the pricing and packaging? How am I different than X or why? And like you have all these other top tracks you have to listen to at the same time they listen to you. So we think it has to be a better way to do it, and technology just got to a better place in which artificial intelligence crosses bridge wal trend from learning that allows us to continue to be inject knowledge into a model that was impossible two years ago as possible now. So I by continually injecting a knowledge into partuper model. It allows us to be relevant to a vertical in Pharma and then be relevant to a vertical and sacrenancial services, we read, relevant to a tech article by continuing to inject that kind of knowledge and once technology across a bridge, now we can release something like Iya. So we merely went out and hire a lot of people from Google chat and Microsoft teams and so like, the real time communication experts that that know how to baked in a proficial indulgence into a real time channel and we built a team of about ten to twelve people on Google and facebook and Microsoft, and those are the that's a genesis of crime and it's live now. It's in the product already. It's a Beta right now. We're because we are we release it. I would have to create the sort of the knowledge verticals. Well, that's that's first of all, just congratulations. That sounds fantastic and I'm incredibly excited for you. So thank you. Now let's transition into the topic of the day, which is the topic everybody's talking about, the topic of every day. Last how every day is the same. So you know, prior to covid outreach was on an incredible role. You know, you would reached all of these milestones. You raised a tremendous amount of capital.

It felt like your momentum had a sense of invidibility to it, maybe even on, you know, on IPO path potentially. Obviously you can't disclose any of that confidential information, but but nevertheless an incredible story. How have covid affected Your Business? What's what's changed? What's been different? What have you seen across the market over the last two months? It's bring a mixed blessing in a way in that and or it makes curs depending on how you how you see it. Attend to be a positive guy. I'm a see I'll get paid to be positive. So there's a lot of that. There's a lot of industry sectors that have seen their business completely disappeared. So travel, entertainment, local businesses. They're all having struggled and those business we were having, I mean they're more numbers, amount of spending a lot of time working their contracts, you know, working with their team to pivot their their emphasis and their communication and and there in the reach out to make sure that they are being sensitive to their market but also looking for new markets, working on acts over a problem on this. At the same time there's businesses that are blowing up. Anybody in Telco, anybody, and I structure anybody in remotuiblications, the door pastors of the world, to seem tremendous growth because you can assume it is one of our customers. We literally just expanded our seats by another twenty percent yesterday because they can deal with the amount of flow it's coming in bound. Despite all the negativity you're seeing with with the security and privacy, they're doing quite well. People really like it and it's working. So it's a bit of a tell to cities and every other end business is sort of like index, and so we're in the middle. Either they're blowing up, they or learned then sort of like in between, or their market has dried up. So for us in particular, we're seem two things. We're seeing the top line growing even faster than before. As in the pass who used to have challenges with outside sellers and field sellers. To at the our reach application was just too sometimes complex, sophisticated, it's a word that I use, but you know, to so ch complex and and feel sellers for use didn't have the patients to adopt. Because what every field sellers an inside seller right now. So that entire there's an entire toolbox that was at your disposal, dinners, gold grounds or admits, with whatever that was. It dried up. Now it's all gone and you're an insight seller and is it is you're testing your wit against a twenty some year old who has been nothing knowledges since day one. So that's where the calling us in to say, Hey, you gotta transform my organization to this new mode in which everybody is insightselling and it's all about production and efficiency. That is mixed in with the fact that there's quite a bit of contraction or churn in the in the segments that are that are at impact that right now. So that's kind of where we are. So we haven't really lost a much momentum and, if anything else, we are doubling down in a novation, as you sewing Kaya and in actual you know, physical presence in anticipation for the markets that reopen, as you are announce. Went around New York and David Runstein, good congratulations on that. That was an interesting announcement, which I did see thinking of the head of an office that people currently cannot go to. So well, we get the exciting going. You know, you'll get the line going and you know, get people take it turny. We have a lot of roles to fill it in New York. So now is the time to start, to start, you know, getting some good tennis and well, we welcome we're I'm personally glad that that you're going to have an outpost here. So yeah, another topic that is always on people's minds is forecasting, and point you've accelerated. A look, first of all, you know the standard question of did you change your two thousand and twenty forecast? Have you modified your two thousand and twenty one forecast? If sometimes we were saying we've just thrown the forecast out the window. And then the other question is, are you feeling see, because my I'll lead the witness a little bit. My personal belief is that, because so many companies have been trying to hold on for a period of time, we still haven't seen the full impact of covid on the on the labor market, on unemployment and really on people's jobs. And so right. Well, though, we think that we've acclimated to some new...

...normal. I don't think. I think it's going to be a gradual erosion. I don't think there's going to be a moment at which everything stops and then we begin rebuilding again. So that is all preamble for the more important speaker, which is you. How have you adjusted your view on two thousand and twenty? Has It made its way into an official board forecast? Have you tweaked it? What's been your approach? Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question. It's a question that I I took to every there is a handful of, you know, Clau, one hundred CEOS that that I came in close touch with your so I can compare exactly the kind of notes that you're asking me. And this is the pattern that I'm seeing. Everybody is developing a scenarios and triggers, including US. So we have an a scenario which we miss forecast by twenty percent, top line by twenty percent, and then you cascade down. What does that mean for the rest of any station? The number that you're solving for at the at the very end, is cash in hand at the end of the year. So what we are encouraging everybody, and BACs are encouraging US and bankers are encouraging glasses to make sure that you determined them out of cash that you need on hand basic your best work as of the future and then sold for that meaning if you're got to miss twenty percent the top line and make sure that your head gone just twenty percent. If you want to be missed forty percent of club line, make going forty percent. So that's what we presented to the board. We make three scenarios. One is no miss, want twenty percent. One is forty percent miss, and then we sort of cascaded down everything from then on so that we have the same amount of cash on hand by the in a year. That allows to have a three year runaway by the end of the year without anything having to raise another die. So that's that's how we went about it. Now the real point, when he gets is how do you operationalizes, and especially in a selles heavy environment because, as you know, if you're trying to pick up the economy rebounding into three or saying you for you need the capacity in with enough time to ram to be able to hit that and then you need to figure out how much burn are you going to have to keep that capacity in house? So that is what becomes sort of like you remember when Luka skywalker sort of exited in that star. You know it. What's the last thing in lasting out before the whole thing blew out like that's that's a question that you're trying to play here. So what we did is we did a couple things. We passed internally a quote or Quarta Plan in which we froze for ninety days or hires except for developers, designers or quarter car quarter carrying reps in particular cities and in particular segments. So, for instance, New York is full out, hiring our emerging team in Seattle is is stole for any days until we see how the economy plays out. So that you see, I mean so you you get pret tacticals to where you deploying your resources and then the thing that you watch like a hawk. We do this every week at a six at thirty am meeting, is cash sources, cash burn and leading indicators, meaning your pipeline. What is whole rates or meetings? Is it going up? Is it going down? What is it pipeline quality that you're bringing in? How is that converting. How is it lag in between, you know, a Lee generated in a self steped lead. What is that, says, says Alete, taken to get to this covery? What is that discovery taken together? And we watch that with the nervousness of a squirrel in the spring, you know, I mean like you are in it, like just watching it, never stopping and it's a little bit over dial but, you know, I kind of enjoy that. It forces you to get a level of inspection that is driving all sorts of additional questions that you don't have asked the Times of bounty and everything is good and you know you're used busy, you know, taking in the orders. So that's a long when the way of saying that, create a forecast for the scenarios, make sure that you have your triggers right so that you can make the moves quickly and and then, you know, like to quote Mark Twain, put all your acts in one basketting watch that basket. To the point, though, of the triggers right, the there's still this element of forecasting that's required because you don't want to you're obviously going to know that you're going to miss by twenty or forty percent while before the end of the year. So it's sort of waiting. To your point about those Kpis, like looking at those Kpis and figuring out, are we moving to scenario be or scenario see, so that we have to make changes in headcount? Freeze, hiring more, freeze expenses more. Well, that's what that that's exactly a right. So what you do is that you add. So you don't hire anybody that is going to impact until you know more. So...

...you're playing again a game of time, right, and as you know, as all would, crow's no, you're likelihood to make the number depends on the coverage that you have on that pipeline, right. So by looking at pipeline generation, then you get a feel for coverage. So coverage, you quet, is coming thinner, like that's no, it's on mistakable. So right. So it's coming thinner by a factor of said, almost fifty percent then. But what we are also seeing is converging is a lot higher. You know, I mean people, you know, are pulling the trigger a lot faster. So, so we have to see this play out. At what you do is so so you you give yourself uptionality and the best form of uptionalities cash. Yeah, I mean, so you freeze what you know, what you don't need to spend. You see that play out in the quo. You're building bike going to three anyway, so you're see how bipling for you three is and then if your coverage gets better by you three, then you open up this figure a little bit again in certain areas and then you sort of play it by here like that. That makes sense. We were talking offline, or backstage, I suppose, just now and I thought you're making some really interesting comments. The question I had is you have a tremendous amount of capital on the balance sheet. You've raised a lot of money and you're operating and executing, so the investor community believes and outreach very much. At the same time, there's still likely pressure to have a certain amount of cash on hand, to reduce unnecessary expenses and to manage prudently, and there there may be a little bit of sort of two decisions you can make. One is to lean in aggressively or one is to retract, even though you might have, even if you go to zero revenue, you might still have twenty four months of cash on hand. So what is your perspective on that and compare that to what you're seeing and hearing from the VC community. Yeah, so the basic community is pivoting their message in it. So there's a three part to it. So, prior to Covid it was a game of Hook and raise the highest elevation when the most amount of growth, et, CET, etc. It started crumbling a little bit with the whole Softbank, you know, on town, unraveling. But in pivot you're a post covided people. That really quickly into like you need to you need to make sure that you lay off people and then you have again, you know, twelve months of cash, twenty four months of cash, and then every week there will be a bigger cash number that you have to have in reserves. So twelve months became twenty four months and then thirty six months became the new twenty four months, and then I'll you know, the pressure that you were hearing and in the comparison in between VC's with each other was like who has the most amount of cash and who had to do the biggest layoffs with the most amount of cash left. And you know, some point you have to like get silly, right, because you you have to still plan for the rebound, and especially when you're still centric like we are, it's a game of capacity at times, production that we have to hit, and if the capacity doesn't show up, US don't hit the number. So it was tricky navigating those waters of like, you know, we're good with the amount of cash that we have and and yes, we don't know what you three is going to look like. They were going to solve for, you know, keeping uptionality low, but we're not going to lay off just for the sake of laying off, you said. I mean like there's no reason to do that. You can keep people around and you can, you can train what you have. You can use it as a time to sort of bring attension into into areas of efficiency that you've in the past when, and you know, when things were good and the punch was fresh, the people were not paying attention to margins, to sell sir, marketing as a person a revenue, who aren't these a person a revenue, and then driving that Eb dine, that rule of forty. So my advice to to to everybody's that this is a precious time for you too as a leader. Stay positive, because we will come out of this to make sure everybody in person that this is a bit of a manufacture recession, meaning we didn't have to go here, meaning we send people home to protect them, not because there was something fundamentally wrong with the economy. Right. So you know, the comeback will have that sort of same level of weirdness. It's not going to be like the true recession in the passive, which we had real productivity problem protivities there. So be ready to catch it when it comes back up and don't be alarmis and sort of over dial when waiting for the other, meaning if you have to make cuts, making one, don't overcut, and then you know, accept that you're going to be wrong and then tell your people that this is your best guest and that whoever is left is going to be the people who...

...are going to be in the boat when we in. We're going to see this through together. And then the next thing is don't don't let your mind this. We swing by by what you're seeing in pressing, when you're reading in the market, etc. We went very quickly from like who had the most amount of cash and the biggest layoffs to look at the multiples of which truly is trading look at the multiples of which data those training. Look at the multiples of which whatever is training, and it's crazy again. Is it a mean like now browns are getting done like. I think peoed back got done for like, yeah, I don't like. I Fin Pot and a half billion dollar evaluation. I don't even know which revenue generating, but it's they're just like which company than you problem. You know, figma. I just got done at at a four point five billion dollar relation. The same thing with confluent. It just which is a coup product, just got done on a five billion dollarloation, on a hundred million dollars ready. So like this, this forty tis multiples of forward looking revenue are back in both, you know, and it was only two weeks ago the people are saying, you know, you need to lay off and like, you know, sold for cash in the back and all of a sudden we're back to the crazy years. So bottom line is like, don't let this way, if way your own game. Observe your market, keep your finale of finality going and don't let this news, you know, throw your mind. When we have the other year, the leader you're in charge, keep their order. That builds that straight. What's before we obviously we could talk for a long time. But what's the rule of forty? So the folks that there don't know. Yeah, rule of forty is that your growth minus your ebed margin, I. Roughly Your cashlow generation ability needs to be about forty. So if you're growing a seventy percent but have, as fairty, lost every every year of Eb Da, you're still forty positive. Got It, and so on as it for good. So thank you for somebody out there was wondering. So I'm glad we got that question answer. How few changed? You know, what have you learned about being a CEO over the last two months? Would have been the key lessons? You know, you have to become the CEO the people need and if this is not an elected position, meaning the Boor, can vote me out, but the people want to be filled, support it and people can vote with their feet by just getting another job. The market is still strong for good talent. That you have to keep people reassured. So I have over indexed in over in communication, in empathy and making sure that I'm transparent, like over the transparent. We are ready at transparent company, but this is dialing into eleven and I will tell people how I feel and how am I doing, and I'm not old flowers and good news. I hate the I hating here like I don't. I'm I have a good set up at home, but I'm not. I'm not an insight cat, you know I mean. I mean I said up my life for this year to be in New York a lot, and I'm not in New York a lot in like this is dry any crazy. So and I don't bend, but I tell people I look. It's hard. It's hard for everybody, like it's hard for me because I don't like it here. It's hard to make with. My parents are the Ecuador and eqular was one of the worst countries handling the the the covid situation in South America. Their parents in the company, their people in the company WHO's barns live in India and they lost and they use a lot of domestic help and they all once at home. So they're worried daily about, you know, whether they trip and fell and who's going to make their meals, etc. So there is this level of inside across the company that is so palpable. He's getting together and saying, look, we're all in it together. It sucks for all of us, but we're going to get through it and were is and it's going to be okay. It's just it's it's a never ending job and I'm changing from a leader that is go from the front and let's get it done and, like you know, this is what we're here to do. The like pull back a little bit and like and empathize and then just hear people out. I don't have a solution for a lot of this and I'm you know, I tend to be of like, let's do something about it. There's nothing we can do about it. This is this is the problem that is above me and I can't do anything about it. So I can do empathize with the rest of you and hear you out a lot of really tactically speaking, what changes having made from a communication perspective? You know, yesterday and meat was saying that they used to have a monthly town hall. Now it's a weekly town hall. What new processes have you developed to help engage the entire global company? That's that's a great so from my personal perspective, I used to write a weekly email. Is sometimes I just skape a week,...

...a real week. Now I do a weekly video so that when I'm they can see my mood when I'm writing things out, and I and you know, the video could be a bit of a ramble, but whatever. But explained to what will happened last week and I'm thinking about the future. I have a lot more office hours in the office. Hours are fight club style. You know what? What you know, row want to fight club. Whatever happened there, like file doesn't exist and whatever happened in facle of it did not happen right, so that we can be very open and on as I can share exactly how I'm feeling about things. Each of the teams have their own set of activities. There's a lot of we're encouraging games and slots to keep people engage or encouraging people using zoom to communicate with our families, our own room accounts of communicate with their own families. We pass a benefit to let people buy school supplies or toys or whatever it is that you need to keep your kids engage, because I'm buying. So I'm buying stickers twice a day here just to give my daughter something to do, you know I mean. And so like to take the edge of a little bit of the this new found expense of kids having in school. We we give people a hundred dollars, I think it's a month expenditure, and you know we're asking managed to be extra flexible with the time so that you know if somebody needs to finish work, work or a night or the weekend, that that just give people elbow room to to be who they are and what they need to do. Get so everybody else. A lot of Zoom, you know, happy hours, a lot of Zoom Games, a lot of zoom things and slack things to keep people engaged. Has the ORG Chart Changed? And I guess the the other question, which is a lot of people are talking about. You can read about it every day. Fred Wilson wrote about it today, but it's really what's the future of work from home? For outreach, you know there's one. Obviously we run a survey. We run a benchmarking survey and I think the numbers like twenty four percent of respond and said as soon as we're allowed to go back to the office, we're all gone back in, let's go. But seventy six percent have some variation of will have to wait and see work from home will be much more optional and you know, the idea of the office will be really, in some ways a coworking space where people can come in and now, but much more optional. What's your perspective on that? There are some teams in my organizations that have adapted to working from home really, really, really well, and you can imagine the data science teams and the gaineering teams are loving life right now. That all of them are, the good chunk of them. It's really hard for my new ramping, either reps or customer success or customer support. We, you know, we use their proximity as a way to enable them and learning from each other and then being in the pit and being in a moment. We're going to have to really refigure that one out. You know. How do you do that when you have to be six feet away and wearing a mask all the time and with very limited social interaction even though you're in the office? It's so that's going to change. We're never going to go back to the new normal, that's for sure. So you know we're you know that. I don't know that we're going to be building a bigger office to a couple way more people where you're going to have to you know, like like they do in Mexico City with license plate. You know, you got to get a number and you know one day is odds, the other days, either piece is gonna you've got to have to time it like that and use office as a way to to be more, like you said, more coworker, more open, and the office based like etc. Because we're in Seattle, we are ready drawing plans for coming back to the economy. Right, so there is a stage approach, etc. And they the proposal we have a outreach on the table is that it's going to be a first come, first serve to capacities met, and then everybody gets a note saying office is of capacity. Can come in and the capacity is going to be so that people can be at least six feet away. You know, you we're not going to have desks anymore for that are that are your desk. They're going to be just working stations and you come in and that's your working station for the day. The moment you leave clean the group comes in and everything is gone. And that way we can enforce the return safe to work policy. The problem that I'm solving for is that north of eighty percent of our population armor lannias and a lot of them, especially in the cousemore facing roles. This is a first, this is an early career job for them.

So not being there, they're working. Conditions at home are not great. They have roommates, small apartments, noise, a tea, and so I neet them back for their own, you know, sanity more than anything else. So that's how we're prioritizing. Then return to work. Is that WHO needed the most? This is by need, not by, you know, seniority or whatever, and that we will, you know, add capacity as those people can return. If str first job or early job, working it out, wants to work from home, will not be a pot. Is it optional or it's really these functions really need to be in person. So we would really strongly prefer yes, optional, but we won't love me quite as much if you don't come back into the office. Yeah, that's a that's a great question, because that that is true where brober hits the road, like if your entire thing is in the office, and Manny said, you know, you feel safe or from home. If you have to buy my time, they say the ASS and I all my boss is in the office are as in the owners I got to feel pressured to be in the office. It's going to be trick it to that again, I'm not gonna lie to you. I think that the other problem with the office is also that a lot of these people don't have cars, specially Seattle, and they use probably transportation polygonslvation could quickly become a peature dish of infection again. So there is the other risk, and just the office, is how do you get to the office back and forth? So the number one over writing thing, and the thing I'm going to be saying it until people are bored of hearing me, is is safety. You have to feel safe returning, you have to feel healthy and you have to feel like we got you. So if, for whatever reason you don't feel safe coming into the office, I'll make sure that your manager understanding that you don't feel safe. Now that doesn't mean you can. You know, you still have to deliver, as that number of sales is at the leads every month right certain so that unfortunately something we cannot do without. But if you can do it from home, all power to so. I asked this question yesterday and it's it borders on the political, I suppose. But you know, there's there's a school of thought, at least in the United States, that tend to be like the Progressive Perspective would be company should be liable if they force workers to return to work and they get sick at work. And there's a quote unquote conservative perspective that company. We need the economy to run and if every business is terrified of being sued because of a sickness that there is no cure for and that there's no vaccine for and that anybody can get at any time, then companies will be more hesitant to open back up. Where do you sit on that spectrum in terms of your personal or not your personal, but the corporate responsibility of outreach back to its employees? Yeah, it's a great question because if the argument has been politicized and so it's hard for anybody of reason to make an argument as to why we want to come back where everybody's still getting sake or there's still a high rate of infection. My personal belief, especially being a neighboring which gives me a little bit of you know, Third Party perspective, is that this country never does well when your Brown knows in somebody into a decision. When you guilt them into into make an that decision be it never works. So don't ever force a Texio to like, Take Corp responsibility because it is a good it's the right thing to do. Make him, you know, make him greedy. Why they have to do it, he said. I mean taking care of your people is a point of greed and a point of power, not a point of, you know, principle or the thing that you should be doing. You should be taking care of your people because economy will rebound and those people will just leave. And the moment people leave and you have an attrition problem, the whole thing shows up in glass door. And we're also rounded by great that companies that had gladly take your best in Britus. So do it for that. Don't do it the care of your people for that reason, because you needed to deliver the next generation product in the next you know, the next quarterer. Don't do it because it's the right thing to do. I Love Your perspective, folks. If you want to ask a question to many, feel free with got probably about ten more minutes and I will keep asking questions that if nobody got this chat, but you know, everybody's everybody's a health care expert. Now, everybody,...

...you know, understandable and we need the are under one and all that. What's your perspective on how long? You know you because we've been talking about it. You know, looking at q two, looking at q three. But what's your view on how long this will play out until we return? Regardless of it? Let's not call it normal. Let's call it a period of increasing productivity and GDP growth and global economic growth again that's meaningful and sustained. How long do you think this plays out? That's a really hard question because you know, you get you got all the reports from Goldman sex and from Morgan Stanley, and don't Your Bank? That makes it a you recovery, of your recovery, although your foolish, all sorts of things. The part that I don't know convey the answer to a question is what does this level of unemployment that's to the recovery so for? How? You know the US is driven by consumer demand, and if sixty million people are unemployed and that number is on the reported, then how does how does it trickle into consumer demand at some point? Right like when? How long these people standing only for they hold their backbreaks of the economy. We really go into Tilspin. I don't know the answer to the question that. That's the thing that I'm most worried about. I'm not worried about, you know, the the secular trends are here to stay. So digital transformation will happen, you know, automation will happen. People will continue to buy, you know it services of some sort. Companies will become more than you tie. All that will continue to rise and I think it was Morgan Stanley who said, you know, ceios is still expecting to to see growth of about eighty percent in cloud migrations of some sort. Right. So that's goodness for all of us. And the other juxtaposing point is the fact that again, this was manufactured, you know left or own devices. You would have seen a little bit of a correction, but not to this degree. Right. So I don't know what will happen. My hope for everybody is that by end did July, we open up the markets and people go out and everybody buys a Harley, I don't know, something really expensive that it's made an America cla. I mean that then you know, then holly buys a bunch of Amalson sorts and then we just got back to business. So that's what I'm hoping for, is like people are so bent up at home that they're going to come out and just like buy whatever's moving and and and out of it alive from your thank you three we'll see the light of it. I so Lucas just asked a question that I was actually going to ask you, which is a variation of it. What are you looking from for right now, from your leadership team most, and what stands out to you in terms of and my question was going to be a variation on that, which is, what can your leadership team do right now? What do you need them to do and what can they do the best position themselves with you, the CEO, to help the company? Yeah, so the one forecast that I do have clear in my mind that I've forgotten in the past, and and it's alone win. The Way to answer this question, is that the time for in efficient growth is over. So what this correction has grown in is that, if you look at all the companies that are doing well and to living in the market, they have everything right. They have, you know, good growth, good efficiency, good casually generation and not even pass the profitability anymore, but just outright cash casual generation, so to quote the great down both from a little rings. Is that about the time. You know how much time you have, but what you got to do with time? You that it's given to you. So now that we have this time for give as lower growth and a little bit of you know, you know, holdling in and so curling up into a bowl and making sure that we were stay okay, is a great time to pick one or two metrics. Is, pick something, pick turn, pick cross margin, big self efficiency, big marketing efficiency, pike so and make it better. Make it better, not by a little bit, but make it better by a lot, you said. I mean. So this is my my advice for everybody and this is my the advice that I'm taking myself. So for ASS for us, we pick Ross margin, rose margin. We're going to be driving another, you know, five whole percentage points of birth margin. We doing now the end of the year, because way making sure that we buy the right at the US instances that we, you know, edge fine and find it finish on the edges in the product that is driving tickets, things that are sort of like typing low hanging fruit forever, but you always give part the prioritize because you got more important things to do. Now is it time to do it. So...

...just make sure that internally, what I'm seeing expecting for my leaders is that my leaders are keeping they're taking the news as they are and not worse, and they're looking at the brice side of it, which is we're going to emerge this a lot stronger, with a lot more chair and a shit done, a cash and all those things need to be true. You see that in and they're holding themselves like at all. They hold it in thingems like at all and they're excited about it, because you should. It's great. That's that's a great answer. Question from Chris. In Austin, some of our benchmarking data indicated that people are shifting resources from sales to customer success, particularly, you know, to address turn and also probably because the sales team has a little bit less to do given that the pipeline's gone down. Are you making any of those shifts and resource allocation to hold up certain areas, or is it just the departments are proceeding a pace? Now we're seeing our customers. So what we're doing is we are now make it were took at a very technical level. We are now opening on opportunity the moment we close a new logo and we're opening upportunities based on internal data that shows that a customer will be expanding it said. I mean, so what we did is we look that usage data and now we're proactively opening opportunities for the then. So we pay on expansion. By the way, now everybody that side is my model. People have different models anyway. So we open opportunities. I have a time to drive expansion conversations and from talking to other Cros and CEOS, the majority of the growth is coming from expansion of new use cases. So you used to sell into you know X, now you can sell into why? How do you operationalize that? So in the past expand it like again and in the very, you know, high growth months that we just came from, expansion, you shure up right, like you sit back and take order to be close to the old. You set back and I get people just come to you that anymore. So you have to go and prospect those suspensions, you have to go sell those expansions, you have to have a Rubrak for initiating an expansion conversation. If I mean you use so much of the product. Let Me Shure You X. let me show you why. You know I met with certain so let me Shure you a case study from that. It from somebody who's using the same product in a different ways. I can tell you more seats. So this is actually a really good conversation because again, we're going to come out of this and you're going to have him new look of growth in high expansion, or so you want to see those that expansion. You know that retention numbers go on going after in a hundred fifty percent because people can not get really good a prospecting the expansion, which is not a motion that people are used to. That great answer. So John Grisman from St Louis. He says what percent of your revenues are from enterprise? Feel free to not answer that. Part of it's confidential. But what tactical changes, other than the obvious zoom meeting piece, are you testing to see if you can maintain or perhaps improve sales cycles? There's a few. So about my business, about half marketing below and have mint marketting above, and we called me market corporate. So corporate enterprising majors and the other but the upper end of the segment, while we're doing more aggressively, is is because we have so many customers. You have almost five tho customers eye by so because you have so many customers, were able to go in and say, look, Mr Mr some Jacobs, your business looks like this. This is a benchmarking study against other businesses and this is what I think we can do for you. We will do all that work proactively, you say. I mean in the past used to have a discovery called and discovery called will end up in a, I. Meaning Project, and that will end up in a sort of like a POC or some sort. We're doing this ahead of time, so we you know, we had a few successes, but it's turning into something really meaningful in that I can really if you're selling some kind of efficiency, you can do all the efficiency prework before you show up and and I know that drives a lot of cost and you know, a sorting used to it. Guess what, everybody's inside sky. Everybody has a lot of time because nobody's traveling. So go to the pre work and make sure that you show their work and they value before you show up the work and that is driving conversions and it's driving deal sizes significantly higher because you're elevating the conversation on the same time. That's fantastic. One more question. How do you manage leadership team churn? With all the tech companies out there, how are you making sure your exact stick around? We don't...

...have that problem and frankly, if you're waiting for now to manage that problem, you're ready have screwed. This is something that is bake into your cultural values, right. So they way you should work it that you should have a good product, market fitting company that has the has a future, and then the culture of values create the social cohesion that keeps you go around and interested in doing their best work with people that they admire. And this is just a test, right. This is sort of like you have the social cohesion of your management team and this is just a stretching it, bouncating at a gift. Their Wall and IFEEP are coming flying out. Then you have their own culture, and I mean this is just a good test to see where the shit works on the absolutely many thanks so much for being with us. It's been an incredible conversation. Folks and thank you for your continued Sart sponsorship and partnership with revern and collective. It means a translating on too. EFLY. F A huge fan of way you guys do and I'm huge fan of the of the amount of learning the you distributed into the into the profession. So thank you for what you do. Thank you. Many the folks want to visit the outreach booth, please do so. It's in the expos section of the platform. We're going to take a break and we're going to get started at one PM Eastern and we're going to take continue this theme of artificial intelligence driving efficiency. We're going to be talking to rush me Natal, who is the chief marketing officer conversa. That's going to be a great conversation. She's got some really interesting data that she's going to percent. So please join us back here at one PM and if you're if you got some time, Click on networking and make sure that you do a little bit of networking. Manny, thanks again for joining us, who really really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you,.

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