The Pavilion Podcast
The Pavilion Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Ep 103: Ask How to Sell w/ Orrin Thomas

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Ep 103: Ask How to Sell w/ Orrin Thomas

Part of the "Is This a Good Time?" series hosted by Brandon Barton

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Pavilion podcast. I am your host, Brandon MArtin and you are listening to Is this a good time the show where I put Pavilion members of the Hot 15 minutes. We hear their incredible stories. We really shows Tuesdays Thursdays Head subscribe. Don't miss a show. These guests are the best. Today we're talking or in thomas. Business development director at Gardner out of London and we talk about asking any of your customers how they like being sold to and then selling to your prospects that way. Pretty simple stuff. This episode is brought to you by drift. More than 50,000 businesses use drift to grow revenue and increase customer lifetime value faster drift, helps their customers line sales and marketing on a single platform to deliver a unified customer experience. Where people are free to have a conversation with business at any time on their terms, learn more at drift dot com. Alright, let's do this. Episode 44.

This is a good time. Alright, great. I am hearing thomas. He is based out of London and he is a business development director at Gardner. Aren't great to have you on the podcast right there with you, awesome man. Well look, we uh we don't mess around. It's uh it's late on a friday night for you in London. It's and so this is all meat, no filler, we jump right in. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your, you know where you are today, what you're doing and and how did you get there? How did you know all of the steps in your career to get there? So uh I started my career, I started I was a policy, I major policy in french. My whole big interest is about patterns in society and how we distribute power, right? And how we can help through data, understanding how the world works so fast water. Today I work for Gartner, which is an advisory firm and I specifically work with sales leaders here in the UK, in I region, the UK and Ireland in understanding some of the big challenges that sells leaders are having. So what we've done as a company...

...of the last A couple of decades, we've got understudied the top 1% of organizations in the world and try to understand what makes for a top performing sales team, what makes them different and what secret in their source that they're doing compared to everybody else. Well then help organizations copy some of those best practices in their own organizations. So my day is varied because I'm constantly speaking to people who are bored level in large enterprise companies. And it is a fascinating role. So I really enjoy it. Um that that those are my that's just my journey to where I am today. Yeah, that that sounds great. So policies, I, I mean it wasn't a direct line to Gardner, you had spent some years at A C C. A what? What was that? Sure. So I a C C A is an accounting certification body here in the UK. So I want to see a and my role there was working in an education technology division that had just started as a spring out star subdivision. So we were selling a new education technology platform to large...

...professional services firms, PWC and EY organizations like that. So it was a fun ride being part of a startup in an established organization. But I don't think I've since gone over to garden and I've really enjoyed working for some of us more larger and I think has a really big impact on how companies run today. You said, you know, you're helping people figure out all the insights and how to run sales seems better. Well how do we run sales? Seems better, man? I mean we'll get to tactics a little bit later. But like what I mean, what are some of the interesting findings that like sales leaders that are listening would maybe be something that is not that intuitive. I think the thing that's not that intuitive today and it's it's it's religion saying that actually we're not selling in the way that customers by. I think there has the last I think the last five years become a really big division between how we ourselves people are selling and positioning ourselves potential customers and how customers want to be salty. And I think we need to really modernize and rethink what sales is now. The fact is for...

...customers today, they have so much complexity and risk when they're making decisions. How do we lessen that risk for them? How do we simplify the information that's available out there to make it easier for them to purchase? How we coaches, how we sense makers, how do we act like a GPS system and help them get to purchase as quickly as fast the ball? I think we do that in a light that it's a really large part of what we do at Gartner is helping organizations sell in the way that customers. But I love that. That's great, man, That's that's incredible. I think, I mean obviously the data shows it for you. That's right that there is this shift happening and there's almost like a three point oh, that's going to happen if you know, there was like relationship handshake sales and then it was like email, cold call and everything like hammers somebody digitally, But there's got to be a 3.0 coming of away where it's not sending back rps and, and doing like really shitty discovery calls and whatever. It's that, that we're finding people who have needs differently. And I know a lot of companies working this stuff,...

...but it's just, it's, it's interesting to think about their, we're not done inventing, go to market strategies, right? Like, of course, we're just at the beginning of this, right? Well look, I I think it takes a lot of hard work and luck to get to where you are in your career. So you have a story of either hard work or luck of kind of, that propelled you forward. Uh, that was some, some luck on my part. I was a freshman at university and I went away on a very alcohol feud holiday frankly, for a couple of weeks in France and came back to a very large, very heavy credit card bill. I needed to make some money very, very quickly. And that's how I ended up in sales. So I went to work for a credit card company selling insurance because of the size that credit bill. I had no chart. I had no latitude than to be the best seller. So I had to pay the credit card back pretty quickly. Now that's some luck as to how I got into sales. And it came really interested in how do we persuade people to part with money for things that they don't have the whole process...

...behind that? So there's some good luck. I think on my part there hard work. I think sales is all about hard work and I don't believe in the concept of a natural born salesperson. I think today being a great seller is an iterative process of constantly working at it. You'll never the finished article and I think whenever we do think with the finished article the world changes on its head and we need to shift the way that we're selling anyway. So I think it's all about the hard work and the hours you put in and learning is earning. Yeah, interesting, interesting way to like there's not a natural born seller. I kind of subscribed to this. I have always been in the world of hospitality sales and the best folks who have been sellers for me have been people who are like I I hate sales people right? Like maybe they were more experts at their craft of running restaurants or running a hospitality establishment. You can turn them into a sales person though because it's just about telling them or telling somebody how to help them run their business,...

...right? Like it's telling a story about how to help you run your business. That's that's pretty cool. Well what if there was some tactic, you know, one particular tactic that you would want to give some credence to for people that they might be able to like employ tomorrow, What would that be? I think for me, the big thing that I would suggest to people today, I think result in marketing is get out and ask her customers how they want to be salty. You have an existing client base. She has some good relationships with them. Ask them about how they're making decisions about purchase criteria today. Who was involved, the information they reading and consuming before. You know, if you look at Gartner research, you know that customers are 57% of the way through that buying journey before they speak with us. The sellers were not the start of that buying journey today. Go out and ask our customers about that. So I think you'll get some really good insights and surprise us. That's a great. I I literally want to slack my marketing team right now just just to go do some customer surveys because I've never I've never really looked at it that way. But like yeah, we have, we have people that are on our team who...

...gets sold to all the time and like why not ask them? What what's effective? Do you really want to do another zoom whiskey tasting or do you want, like would you rather us send you a bottle of whiskey on your, I don't know, something like that. You know, no one's invited to meet many uh whiskey tastings during, during lockdown. but I'm definitely open to invitations. Well, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want you to run up your credit card bill and get into some other and you're gonna be selling rocket ships after this. Well, well, well look, I would love to know from your perspective gardener puts out so much information. So like from a content standpoint, right? Like you're obviously eating, eating some of your own, you know, work there and what gets put out there, but like from an individual standpoint linked in or whatever, what inspires you and who inspires you with some really good ideas and different ways to think about things almost in the way that you're talking about. So josh Brown is someone who regularly pops up my linked in and I just think, yeah, I've never thought of doing it in that way. I love the way he weaves in christmas his stuff from. Never spent...

...the difference. The next person I follow. I really like his Cynthia farms. I think that's really powerful things out about empowering women in sales, which I think is brilliant. So the two people that I find it quite a lot on linked in love that love that. And then are you hiring for anything that we should know about? We are actually hiring for two roles in my team right now. Actually, we're hiring for an opposite number for me in the U K and I. Region Garner is always increasing across the UK and the state, so definitely have a look through their website. Cool. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge organization about how many people in the whole organization, I mean 15, people around around around $8,000. Yeah, wow. There's always rolls there. That's incredible. All right, man. Well, look, all those other questions for everybody else now, the one for me. Where can I eat? Give me the spot. Where are you and I going when I get to get on the flight and come come to London into you. Can't be two places. There's going to be sure which vehicle place, which is where I quite like to get my hospital beef, which is about a mile away from where I live next to. There is a place that makes hot...

...chocolate, but they actually use real chocolate and just melt it with milk. So it's a pretty decadent recommendations from me. I love it when we tell me the name of the first place again short of april uh, I love it. We are going there. I'm buying you're bringing your research. I'm buying that sounds right. That sounds right. I'll get out there because I owe you for coming on department. All right. Thank you so much. I'm so great to connect and really really looking forward to keeping in touch and yes, getting across the pond and coming to say hello from time to time. All right, that is our show. Thank you so much for listening. If you love the show, rate and review Apple podcast, Spotify have send it to friends. Do all this stuff reminder. This episode was brought to you by drip the new way businesses buy from business. You can learn more and get the conversation started at drift dot com. I had so much fun today. Hope you did too. Now go crush your numbers. Say something. Mhm.

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